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Banshees

minordrag

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
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Jan 21, 2002
Messages
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OK, I'm mainly starting this thread 'cause there should be some ghosty stuff for us to look at every day.

Right: what's all this, then, about Banshees? We on the other side of the Pond have no analog. Is this entity confined to our Irish cousins, and then only to certain familial groups? How far back to Banshee stories go--and when was the newest credible report? Are they defined as ghosts? They don't seem to be confined to any one "haunt."

Now I'll sit back and await the torrent. Mmmmm, coffee.
 
I don't think they're ghosts, tho I stand to be corrected. I was told that a banshee is a woman who sits on a rock at the edge of the sea, combing her long straggly hair, and wailing loudly. More akin to some kind of anti-siren by the sound of it. I think it is just an Irish thing.
 
My understanding is that they herald the death of a family member; many families have their own banshee. They either appear or a only heard---supposedly a terrifying wail.
 
You're right there. Seeing or hearing a banshee was NEVER a good thing.
 
While the banshee - by name at least, is confined to Irish folklore, being derived from 'bean sidhe', the 'woman of the fairies' (or ‘woman of the hill’), she - ghost or archetype, depending on your point of view - is reflected in recognisably similar characters found in Celtic, European, and other traditions. Similar stories abound of the beautiful maiden/hag character - the classic femme fatale - who beguiles men, leading them toward or foretelling impending death.

In the Celtic stream, for instance, there is the bean nighe, of Ireland and Scotland - the Washer of the Ford, an ugly hag that sometimes appeared in the guise of a beautiful young woman, and who, akin to the banshee, portended death by her appearance.

In European lore, there is the Rusalka, water spirit of Slavic lore said to be the spirit of a dead female (in some parts, a bride who died on her wedding night) who, like the Sirens of Greek mythology, lure men their drowning by sweet song; the Vila, another hostile spirit of Slavic lore, the spirit of an unbaptized child or an earthbound virgin. The vila dances in circles, condemning any who disturb them to join them unto death; the Nocnitsa, a hag of Eastern European lore; the Berchta, an ugly old woman of German folklore, thought to have orginally been a goddess (the German equivalent of the Cailleach); the nix, a German equivalent of the Rusalka; the acheri of Native American lore; the anhanga of the Brazilian Amazon.

It is interesting to note that powers of prophecy (even to the foretelling of death) most commonly attributed to the darker (and by time-honoured interpretation, evil) characters of this lore, were frequently old crones wizened by age.
Sometimes, though, as mentioned, the banshee could take the guise of a young female...

and, in real-life reports, the banshee-like cry is heard within the context of another unlikely-sounding but verified scenario - such as the intriguing encounter in May 1976 when Anton Le Grange from Oudtshoorn, South Africa, met a female hitch-hiker some 13 kilometres from Uniondale:

It was dark; the time was 7.15 p.m. The rain and coldness prompted him to offer a lift to the woman although she did not appear to be actually seeking a lift. She was dressed in dark trousers and jacket. Her hair, contrary to that depicted in rumour, was dark, and her face pale.

The girl accepted the offer of a lift, giving the address to which she wished to be taken. It was shortly after pulling away that Le Grange thought to question the girl about the destination address, recalling that there was no such street in Oudtshoorn, his own destination. On looking over his shoulder, he found she had disappeared.

The incident was duly reported to Uniondale police. The duty officer at the time, PC Snowy Potgieter, recalled that Le Grange had been upset but sober, and agreed to drive out to the scene of the incident. On the way out there, the police officer (following in his own vehicle) witnessed the right rear door of Le Grange's car open and close by itself. Le Grange reported that he heard a 'spine-chilling' laugh inside his car. (A slightly different version states that Le Grange was driving away from the police station when he heard a horrible scream inside his vehicle, in response to which he immediately turned back. Officer Potgieter then accompanied the witness on the way back to the scene of the incident, during which the door-opening event occurred.

read more here http://www.tudor34.freeserve.co.uk/Cases-World.htm#Union

And we can return to the same pool of lore, and recognise similar traits with the more recognisably elemental forms of these creatures - boggarts, for instance, that fly shrieking into the night after surprising and terrifying unwary travellers by night...
 
All the stuff I've ever read about banshees makes them a bit of
a status symbol. It is always the big old house and family of
glorious isolation and bad conscience.

Is there any tradition of banshees among ordinary folk? :rolleyes:
 
Regarding the Banshee, the Irish have Bean sidhe, the Scots have Ban sith, the Welsh have Gwrach y rhibyn, so what is the English equivalent.
 
Bump

Just to say that Hermes rocks. That post deserves to be read several more times! Well done.
 
There's a story of a woman in Wolverhampton who employed an Irish maid, named Morag, in the winter of 1976. Morag was small with black hair and dark eyes. On one of Morag's days off, her employer saw a small pyramid hovering in the air near the television. She describes it as about 3 inches in height with one side shimmering as though charged with electricity. The object caused her to panic. She was further terrified by a sudden hammering on the door. When she opened it, her daughter came rushing in in tears. She said she had said goodnight to her boyfriend, then tried to start her car to drive home but the engine was dead. As she was parked on a hill, her boyfriend was able to give her a push start, but as she was moving away she spotted a small white dog in her headlights. More identical dogs appeared, until she was surrounded by them and unable to move away.

Before the mother could relate her story, they heard a blood curdling scream from outside. They peered cautiously through the curtains and saw, in the light of the full moon, a swirling mist a few feet away which gradually assumed the form of a frail old lady. She was enveloped from head to toe in a long grey cape. her face was pinched and drawn, she had a beaked nose and looked incredibly sad. She drifted backwards a few feet then disappeared.

While the two women were wondering what would happen next, Morag came in and announced she would have to leave immediately for Ireland as her father was gravely ill. She explained the bean sidhe was following her around, and would do so until she returned home. Morag packed and left that night.

Those fitting Morag's description are apparently known as 'Black Irish' and are far more psychic than their fellow countrymen. Folklore says that they are descended from Spaniards who escaped from the Armada, but it is more likely they come from the Iberians, a people who occupied most of the West European Coast and British Isles long before the Celts.

Bean Sidhes do notcause death, they merely herald it. They tend to be seen before battles in Celtic mythology (rather like the Morrigan). As Hermes says, they are not always haggard old women. Sometimes they are young, but they always cry and look incredibly sad. It is said they are linked more with the Macs and O's families, that is families of noble Gaelic descent. They are not always seen, often heard, or sometimes could just be knocks. As my family are all small and dark, and originate from Ireland (and Scotland and Wales) I tend to worry when I hear screaming late at night :)
 
Helen said:
Those fitting Morag's description are apparently known as 'Black Irish' and are far more psychic than their fellow countrymen. Folklore says that they are descended from Spaniards who escaped from the Armada, but it is more likely they come from the Iberians, a people who occupied most of the West European Coast and British Isles long before the Celts.
:)

I'm also "black Irish" on my dad's side, but I have to admit, I never heard of the phychic link. (My mum was the suspect in that department). I've always thought the Armada link very dodgy, but people do often mistake us for Spaniards.
 
There's also the Welsh Banshee, the Gwrach-y-rhibyn. At St. Donats Castle in South Glamorgan she flies around shrieking to foretell a death in the family. There's also a green-skinned, bulgy-eyed variant who flies round the turrets of Caerphilly Castle.

There seem to be quite a few "old hag" type ghost stories in Wales too. The scariest I can drag out of the Good Ghost Guide is from Borth, where the mouth of the river Dovey is haunted by one that's seven feet tall, with yellow skin and black teeth :eek!!!!:

She breathes into people's faces to bring illness, somthing which the Guide attributes to her diet of bog beans and toadstools!
 
the knock

The other manifestation that fortels death or ilness (mensioned in passing on this thread) is the knock. This takes the form of several loud knocks on the door of a house and is not so class defined as the banshee. I personaly know one person who has heard the knock. When the knocks on the door wern't answerd they began on the windows and moved all around the ground leval of the house.

One thing: the knock brings death as well as forteling it and therefore is not the same as the Banshee. If you open the door to the knock (there I go with those words again) you will bring death into the house. It is manevalent where the Banshee is not and I would not like to hear it...:eek!!!!:
 
Banshee

The Banshee is currently cataloqued with the Fairies. Obviously there are those out there who may argue the point. But the Banshee is still seen and heard today in Ireland.
The last report I got was about 6 months ago, I had suspected the Banshee was nothing more than a fox calling her mate in a bog somewhere as I would often hear around my home.
I also thought with the increase of building developemnt throughout Ireland she would have died away. Apparently not, she appears just as frequently in the built up areas as those that are not.
I still cannot say what she or it is for sure and I suspect there would be no wealth to be gained from catching her as I believe it is her cousins who have the pots of Gold :)

Seriously though, people here still are afraid of her and what she stands for, Fairie trees still grow in the fields and modern day farmers with their heavy machinery won't go near them to have them removed from the middle of the field. there are several of these examples near me if you would like a photo I'm sure I could probably send one along.
 
Years ago as my grandfather was dying I believe I actually saw the Banshee, at least some sort of spirit. There's a tradition in Ireland that she haunts families with the 'Mc' or O' prefix to their names and as McCarthys we must be on her list.

My grandfather was upstairs surrounded by his sons and daughters praying for him in his last throes of death on a very dark, wet night in November. I was downstairs looking after a few things, when I discovered I had to go outside for some coal for the fire. Dashing across the yard my eye was drawn to sort of grey/white figure standing at the gate to the yard. 'It' must have been about 20 feet from me on the other side of the gate. It was about 6 feet tall and it was quite grotesque. It had a skeleton-like face framed by long, straggly white hair and long bony arms which were outstretched. It wasn't opaque, I could see through the folds in its garments, it was mostly a dim grey colour. All this I took in the 1.5 seconds it took me to drop the coal and start running towards the house scared witless. When I got to the house I learned that my grandfather had just died. I didn't have the guts to peek out and see if the thing was still there.

I don't know if this was the Banshee herself, because I certainly didn't hear her crying, or if it was some other type of death 'spirit'. It strikes me that it could be the Banshee because the thing struck me as resembling a woman.
 
Re: Banshee

espirit said:
Fairie trees still grow in the fields and modern day farmers with their heavy machinery won't go near them to have them removed from the middle of the field. there are several of these examples near me if you would like a photo I'm sure I could probably send one along.

That would be great, as I have no idea what a Fairie tree is or why people won't go near it. Thank you.
 
Banshee/tree

OK, I'll try and get a digital image and send it to you with in the next few days. Funny it just so happened I was called to a house today wit one in the back garden beside the well.
Old custums dictate thse well where the doorways to the underworld of the little beggers. Beltan and Halloween would normally produce activity around the property and it was considered back luck to build on their path.

Watch out in your e-mail, by the way whcih email do I send it too?

Have fun.
 
pics for all

I would suggest PMing schnor, who could aid you in posting them in such a way as we could all view them.

Thanks again! It's very interesting. Are they a certain kind of tree, or in a certain kind of place, or both to qualify?

As an amateur gardener I'm wondering which kind of tree it is. Not to hijack my own thread :rolleyes: , but some trees are given religious/mythological significance. A popular one where I live is the dogwood, which blooms four-petalled white flowers in the spring. Each petal is tinged with red on the outside. On the inside is the pistil/stamen (or whatever it's called!). The flower as a whole is seen as significant of Christ on the cross (red for blood, center for crown of thorns).
 
Banshee

The tree is known as a Black Thorn, now whether this is its proper name I'm not sure. I'll see what I can do with the pic.

Regards.
 
Presumably someone must interfere with blackthorn trees as that's what the traditional Irish weapon is made of. This is the shillelagh (pronounced "shil-lay-lee where my lot come from). Very handy to have behind the front door I can tell you.
 
Tree Clarification

In Ireland the Whitethorn is what is usually known as the 'fairy bush'. Not all whitethorns are fairy bushes - usually ones that are old or isolated in the middle of a field or the like. The whitethorn is also known as the Hawthorn.
The Blackthorn is a smaller bush with round dark leaves. It produces a fruit called the sloe or fraughan, from which sloe wine, etc. can be made.
The shillelaghs you see in the tourist shops are an invention, I've never heard of any Irish person using one but they do turn up now and again in those old Victorian racist etchings of the 'fightin' Irish'. They are too short to act as a walking stick, but longer blackthorns were used as walking sticks and for driving cattle. Now the most usual stick for this job is an ash or a hazel. Blackthorn sticks were used for fighting but they were standard length with a heavy handpiece from the root of the bush. A good one was known as the 'Mother of the Sloes', at least according to the legends about my great grandfather and faction fights. ;)
 
BUMP (again)

Hey, I was getting all excited about seeing pictures of fairy trees!

Are only old, isolated Whitethorns considered "fairy trees?" What other criteria applies?
 
Banshee

I'm currently running experiments with Digital cameras in order to debunk the orb phenomenon. I'm nearly finished and it just so happens I'll be out by the tree tomorrow evening. I'll take a pick though I don't know how to display it onto the Fortean pages.
If I pass the pic along could you post it?

Many regards.
 
There are a lot of stories about Banshees near where I live, one of the stories describes a small woman dressed in white.
Have any photos ever been taking of 'banshees'' or banshee like apparations?
 
KarlR said:
There are a lot of stories about Banshees near where I live, one of the stories describes a small woman dressed in white.

It's Kylie Minogue!
 
Well I'd expect them to manifest mainly as sound-recordings, since
that seems to be their traditional way of signalling death.

I think a number of recordings have circulated. None of them so horrid
as Ms. Minogue, granted. I did find a record of The Banshee on an
esoteric record list but it turned out to be a piece by the US composer
Henry Cowell - it was to be played directly on the strings of the piano,
and certainly sounded weird!

My impression is that the banshee was something of a status symbol in
Ireland, being associated with only very posh families. Is there any
folk tradition of this phenomenon among less well-to-do families?
:confused:
 
Kylie Minogues a good one :D
There are stories about people seeing a banshee near where I live rather than just hearing it. This banshee had a name and but I can't remember it. There was a song about it which terrified me as a child. I'll have to do a bit of research on it and post it here.
 
James Whitehead said:
My impression is that the banshee was something of a status symbol in
Ireland, being associated with only very posh families. Is there any
folk tradition of this phenomenon among less well-to-do families?
:confused:
I'm from Ireland and can confirm that banshees aren't just associated with the posh. When my late Grannie was a little girl she heard some cats fighting in the street and ran to her mum in terror cos she thought it was banshees howling.
She also told me that the Black and Tans (dodgy loyalist auxiliary police force of early 20th century) used to imitate banshee wailing outside "enemy" houses in rural areas to scare the occupants.
Even now some Irish people have a superstitious fear of picking up combs found in the street in case they have been dropped by a banshee (apparently they have very long hair and are often seen combing it).
 
Banshee

I have been to Rathlin Island on the trail of the Banshee and recorded the cry which I was going to use in TV broadcast for RTE.
Two weeks later as I returned home about 4 months ago I heard the cry again and Elizabeth Kelly passed away some 400 yards from where I stood at the same time.

I just thought it funny that when I go looking for her, she found me.

Spooky.
 
Wow espirit!

Is is possible to make a download of the Banshee cry available? What made you think it was a Banshee, as opposed to an animal or human in distress?

This is most exciting, that you've heard one twice and even recorded it!
 
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