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Blind People 'Seeing': Human Echolocation / Blindsight

sunsplash1

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Blind man uses 'sixth sense' to detect emotion
A completely blind British man has been shown to possess an apparent "sixth sense" which lets him recognise emotions on people's faces, according to British scientists.

The researchers say the 52-year-old was able to react to pictures of human faces showing emotions such as anger, happiness or fear.

The man, identified only as 'patient X', has suffered two strokes which damaged the brain areas that process visual signals, leaving him completely blind.

But his eyes and optic nerves are intact and brain scans show that he appears to somehow use a part of the brain not usually used for sight to process visual signals linked to some emotions.

When researchers from the University of Wales showed the man images of shapes such as circles and squares, he could only guess what they were, and had a similar lack of success determining the gender of emotionless male and female faces.

But when presented with angry or happy human faces, his accuracy improved to 59 per cent, significantly better than what would be expected by random chance according to the researchers.

He achieved similar results for distinguishing between sad and happy or fearful and happy faces.

However, he was unable to tell apart images of animals which appeared either threatening or non-threatening.

Brain scans showed that when the man looked at faces expressing emotion, it activated a part of his brain called the right amygdala, which is known to respond to non-verbal emotional signs.

The findings, published in journal Nature Neuroscience, suggested the man was able to process information gathered by his eyes in a different part of the brain from the visual centre.

Dr Alan Pegna, who led the study, said: "This discovery is ... interesting for behavioural scientists as the right amygdala has been associated with subliminal processing of emotional stimuli in clinically healthy individuals.

"What patient X has assisted us in establishing is that this area undoubtedly processes visual facial signals connected with all types of emotional facial expressions."

Last Update: Monday, December 13, 2004. 7:51am (AEDT)http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200412/s1263470.htm

:shock:
That Amygdala. Interesting bit of the brain, really. Sort of reiterates just how little we know of visual processing. Even though it's one of the most actively researched senses.
:shock: Not shock, just eyes
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just what is it with the amygdala these days?

Has there been some huge influx of cash into amygdala research or something lately, or is this just my own personal synchronicity trip?

www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 572#443572

www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 717#427717

www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 263#350263

www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 592#224592

www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 038#196038

etc

[Emp edit: fixing links - making them shorter and switching phpBB2 -> forum - updated your bookmarks everyone ;) ]

Lizard23Edit - sorry! :)
 
A pretty active piece of wetware?
:D
I wonder how 'primitive' it is? Are there animalian brains w'out Amys?
 
I've never come across this before (well not in humans anyway), and given all the bad news in the world a story like this is good to see.

People magazine profiles Ben Underwood, a blind 14-year-old who apparently uses echolocation to "see." Ben, sightless since the age of 3, makes loud clicking noises with his tongue and then listens for the echo. According to the article, he can not only detect distance but sometimes the material of an object based on how soft, dense, or sharp the echo is. From the People profile:
Ben's ability to navigate in his sightless world is, say experts, extraordinary. "His skills are rare," says Dan Kish, a blind psychologist and leading teacher of echomobility among the blind. "Ben pushes the limits of human perception."

Kish has taught echolocation to scores of blind people as a supplement to more traditional methods, such as walking with a cane or a guide dog, but only a handful of people in the world use echolocation alone to get around, according to the American Foundation for the Blind...

Ben learned how to read Braille and walk with a cane, but when he was 3, he also began teaching himself echolocation, something he picked up by tossing objects and making clicking sounds to find them. His sense of hearing, teachers noticed, was exceptional. "One time a CD fell off his desk and I was reaching for it when he said, 'Nah, I got it,'" says Kalli Carvalho, his language arts instructor. "He went right to it. Didn't feel around. He just knew where it was because he heard where it hit." Haase took walks with Ben to help him practice locating objects. "I said, 'Okay, my car is the third car parked down the street. Tell me when we get there,' " she says. "As we pass the first vehicle, he says, 'There's the first car. Actually, a truck.' And it was a pickup. He could tell the difference."

http://www.boingboing.net/

and more info:

http://people.aol.com/people/article/0,26334,1212568,00.html
http://hcs.harvard.edu/~husn/BRAIN/vol1/echo.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_echolocation

Couldn't decide whether its a "fit" topic for the board or in fact where to put it, ah well I'm sure some kind hearted mod will move it if they need to.
 
This kid sounds to me like a real version of Daredevil, but I wonder if his abilities aren't exagerated by the article. Anyway, these is the type of inspiring story we need to read from time to time.
 
That is quite fantastic but it appears to be true.
It works best for him in familiar surrounds, but he seems to have developed an ability far beyond a normal range.

Iamgine the safe cracker he could be! ;)

LD
 
At first glance of the word 'echolocation', I thought it was some kind of process to do with chocolate...

The heat's making me go barmy. :roll:
 
On TV the other night:

The Boy Who Sees Without Eyes

Ben Underwood lives with his family in the suburbs of Sacramento, California where he attends his local high school. Like any other 14-year-old boy, he loves to play with his friends and chat to girls his age, with whom he seems popular. He looks like any other boy, until he removes his $4,600, hand-crafted eyes.

Ben is blind and, like other blind people, relies on some specialist equipment to survive. He uses talking computer software and a Braille machine to help with his homework. Ben does not have a guide dog, uses no stick, and does not even use his hands to aid his mobility.

Instead, he has developed something of a supersense: he is the only person in the world who navigates using clicks. As he walks, he makes a continuous clicking noise with his tongue. As these clicks echo around him, he is able to draw up a detailed mental plan of his surroundings and adjust his direction accordingly. So accurate is his technique that he is even able to go rollerblading on the street, negotiating narrow gaps between parked cars that even sighted children might find challenging. In fact, Ben’s mother, Aquanetta, finds that her son is far more attentive to the dangers of the road than his friends, always the first to move onto the pavement when a car approaches.

Ben first noticed his talent at the age of seven, when at summer camp. While it began as just a habit, Ben explains, he soon realised that it had potential benefits for navigation. He began to practise every day and developed the system to the point it is at today. It is the fact that Ben is entirely self-taught that is perhaps most astonishing and has led people to use the term ‘genius’ when referring to the boy.

Dr James Ruben, an ophthalmic surgeon who has worked with Ben for some time, could not believe what he saw when he first met the patient. “This can’t be possible,” he thought on spotting the blind boy sitting in his waiting room playing video games. But it was possible and Dr Ruben found himself working with a unique talent. Once he had accepted that Ben was truly blind, Dr Ruben was “flabbergasted” and shared the remarkable story with the local press. It was not long before the news rippled throughout national press and Ben soon found himself featuring in a photoshoot with America’s People magazine and appearing on the popular chat show, ‘Oprah’.

Throughout his experiences, Ben has found that everyone who meets him cannot believe their eyes. When he first joined his current school, most people did not even notice that he was blind. There appears to be nothing that his friends can do that Ben will not attempt and conquer. As one of his friends puts it: “It is shameful, being beaten by a blind man on a video game!”

According to Dr Ruben, one of the secrets behind Ben’s talent is his remarkable mother. Along with the rest of the family, Aquanetta makes no allowances for Ben’s blindness and treats him as if he can see. She also maintains a “no-limits” philosophy and grants her son the space and the freedom he needs to excel. Refusing to allow Ben to see her afraid or crying, Aquanetta believes that if she never appears to be feeling sorry for her son, he will never feel sorry for himself. But perhaps the most important factor in the development of Ben’s talent is the attitude of the boy himself. “Ain’t nothing wrong with me”, he insists.

www.five.tv/programmes/extraordinarypeo ... thouteyes/

Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_echolocation

Video:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkDI_spL0HQ

EDIT: Thread title amended by WJ.
 
I saw this boy on TV a while ago. He was pretty amazing, extremely likeable and had not an ounce of self pity. His mum was obviously very proud and rightly so. Very inspiring.
 
I wonder if he'll become a crimefighting lawyer when he grows up?
 
You dare say that, you old devil?

Yeah, I know.

I remember seeing footage of a blind girl, about three years old, who, when lost and confused, started banging her feet on the ground, and listening - apparently trying to use the echo to find her way around. This was quite some time ago.

Maybe the ability is more common than we think?
 
I don't quite understand how he can play video games. Am I missing something here?
 
mossy_sloth said:
I don't quite understand how he can play video games. Am I missing something here?

No that is the one that got me during the show. I was all "whoa hold on there!!! how does that possibly work?" and they were all "sorry dude we are carrying on with our show and ignoring your objections."

Made me suspicious but then again he doesn't actually have eyes so...

Perhaps he hasn't developed echolocation but kickass superpowers?
 
mossy_sloth said:
I don't quite understand how he can play video games. Am I missing something here?
He plays by sense of smell?

All together now:
That deaf, dumb, and blind kid,
Sure plays mean pinball
 
Maybe the games he plays have very descriptive sound effects? Can you get games with audio description? Is this a gap in the market I've identified?
 
You can't play videogames with echolocation because it couldn't detect any detail on the screen. It would just detect as a big blank panel.

Some games might be fairly playable with sound alone, but most are not. They simply don't give out sufficient information to allow you to play without the pictures. However, I work on computer games, and once I accidentally compiled a game with no graphics. I was surprised to find that it was still almost entirely playable. So really it depends on the game.

There are some games specifically designed for blind people that rely on sound alone, but they are generally computer rather than video games because they tend to be small indie games rather than the big productions you get on consoles.
 
Lots of blind people use tongue clicks

While I think that it's great that this young man can do this, he is far from being the only one in the world who does it. Lots of blind children and adults do it, and they start as babies.

Basically, they start with normal baby babbling, which eventually grows to include clicks with the tongue. However, most children and adults don't rely on it singularly -- they also use a cane and/or a dog.

When my youngest was a baby, he was diagnosed as having "low vision." He was also Deaf -- but that didn't stop him from making the clicking sounds with his tongue -- however, as predicted by the vision specialist and doctor, he stopped doing it after awhile. Due to his Deafness, his brain didn't register a response to the clicking.

JandZmom
 
Blindsight

Blind man navigates obstacle course using 'blindsight'
A man who was left completely blind by multiple strokes has been able to navigate an obstacle course using only his "sense" of where hazards lie.

By Kate Devlin, Medical Correspondent
Last Updated: 7:11PM GMT 22 Dec 2008

Researchers have demonstrated for the first time that people can successfully navigate an obstacle course even after brain damage has left them with no awareness of the ability to see and no activity in the visual cortex.
The feat is an example of "blindsight", the ability of some blind people to sense things that they cannot see.

Scientists already knew that the man, known only as TN, reacted to facial expressions that he could not see.

Brain scans showed that he could recognise expressions including fear, anger and joy in other people.

However, he is totally blind and normally walks using a stick to alert himself to objects in his path.

To test the extend of his blindsight, scientists constructed an obstacle course made up of boxes and chairs arranged in a random pattern.

Not only was TN able to safely manoeuvre the course he did not bump into a single box or chair.

Professor Beatrice de Gelder, from the University of Tilburg in the Netherlands, who led the study, said: "This is absolutely the first study of this ability in humans.

"We see what humans can do, even with no awareness of seeing or any intentional avoidance of obstacles. It shows us the importance of these evolutionary ancient visual paths. "They contribute more than we think they do for us to function in the real world."

Experts believe that blindsight trades on our subconscious ability to recognise things we cannot see.

They think that even though the eyes do not identify objects something in the brain can still respond to what they see on a subconscious level.

Earlier studies had shown a similar ability in monkeys with brain injuries.

The findings of the study were published in the journal Current Biology.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... sight.html

See also:
http://www2.forteantimes.com/forum/view ... hp?t=18301
 
Oh, how interesting.

Of course this isn't parapsycology... this is just a new brain function we don't yet understand or can explain. It can't be Fortean... respected scientists are writing about it!



:twisted:
 
A longer discussion of the case:

The blind man who can 'see' - and how he shows that humans really DO have a sixth sense
By MICHAEL HANLON
Last updated at 10:55 PM on 23rd December 2008

For blind people to regain the power of sight usually requires a miracle - either of the old-fashioned, Biblical variety or of the modern, medical sort.
Yet an extraordinary case reported this week shows us that there may be another form of miracle that can help the blind to 'see' - and it's one that may force us to rethink our whole understanding of the way in which the human senses operate.
In the journal Current Biology it is reported that a man left totally blind by brain damage has astounded scientists by flawlessly navigating an obstacle course without any help or practice whatsoever.

This is perhaps the most persuasive example to date of what is termed 'blindsight' - the extraordinary ability of some who have lost their vision to be able to 'see' without, apparently, any ability actually to receive images in the eye and brain at all.

Because blindsight is a nebulous concept, often linked to paranormal manifestations, it has often been dismissed by researchers as myth. Yet here was a case that defied any straightforward explanation.
Scientists at the University of Tilburg in The Netherlands found that the unnamed man, known only as 'TN', was able to negotiate his way past a series of boxes and chairs, despite the fact that a series of strokes had damaged the visual cortex of his brain to such an extent that tests have shown he is completely blind.
So how on earth does he do it? What does it tell us about the way we 'see' the world?

And is it conclusive proof, as many have claimed, that humans have a hidden 'sixth sense' that can detect aspects of the world around us in a way that defies any logical explanation?
The first thing to realise is that science loves to categorise things.

We have 'five senses' in part because 'five-and-a-bit senses' is messy and ' unscientific'.
And yet it may be a far more accurate description of what is going on in the complex interface between the outside world and our brains.
It seems that in the case of TN, for example, although he has no conscious awareness of the visual world, his brain is, somehow, keeping tabs on his surroundings, by processing the electrical messages that are travelling through his eyes and optic nerves (which remain undamaged by his stroke) even though the normal 'visual' part of his brain is damaged beyond repair.
To use a scientific term, his mind is not creating any visual 'qualia' - the name given to conscious experience of sensations, such as sight or sound.

Although he is not actually aware of the cause, scans have even revealed that certain parts of his brain, not normally associated with sight, 'light up' when he is shown pictures of other people pulling a variety of different facial expressions - such as fear, anger or joy.
This weirdness should perhaps not surprise us. Our senses form part of the most mysterious system in the known universe - the human brain.

Indeed, compared to the kilogram of grey jelly in your skull, even the mightiest stars and galaxies hold few mysteries.
Anyone who claims they know how the brain works, or exactly what is going on when our eyes view a splash of red, or our noses scent a whiff of coffee, or our tastebuds pick up on a tang of brine, is simply deluded or lying.

Despite centuries of probing, such mysteries remain totally unsolved.
We do know, however, that there are a number of peculiar anomalies.
For example, we know that humans, compared to other animals, have extremely good vision - on a par with the birds and far better than most mammals. Sight is our primary sense.
Yet, rather mysteriously, it is another sense - smell - which in many of us has the ability to evoke the strongest emotional responses.
Shown a photograph of our old primary school, say, most of us will respond with a vague sense of recognition.

In contrast, even the merest hint of the smell of the school's polished parquet floors, or of the heady tang of boiled cabbage from the school dinner kitchens, will be enough to bring all the childhood memories flooding back.
Equally mysteriously, our senses seem to operate on several levels. If you are sitting down when you read this article, think for a moment of the sensation coming from your bottom and lower back.
The moment you do, you will become suddenly aware of the pressure of the seat cushion below you, the contours of its shape and how comfortable (or uncomfortable) it is.
In psychological terms, you are now 'attending' to these sensory inputs.
Yet before you chose to swivel your 'mind's eye' to the chair, you were probably completely unconscious of all these sensations, even though the relevant one of the your five senses - touch - was working all the while.

Then there is a well-known psychological phenomenon called the 'cocktail party effect'.
This is the ability of the human brain to detect, immediately, pertinent and important information from an otherwise meaningless sensory melange.
If you are at a busy party, for instance, you will probably be aware only of the random babble and hum of voices. Yet should someone mention your name, even quietly and from across the room, the chances are that you will immediately pick up on it.
It is as though you have an unconscious monitor sitting inside your head - a 'little man', if you will - checking what is coming in from your eyes and ears and so forth, before deciding which is important-and letting your conscious mind know.

Of course, the idea of a little man inside your head is an absurd (but remarkably persistent) analogy - but it does serve to illustrate the fact that our brains operate on all sorts of levels of conscious awareness, and not always in ways that we recognise.
Think of the last time you drove to work, for instance, or did the school run. How conscious were you, actually, of the journey? How many of the twists and turns can you remember?
The chances are that the answer is 'none at all'; you probably were able to operate, quite safely, a complex piece of machinery (a car) almost like you were an unthinking robot while you were thinking about something more interesting. Extraordinary.
The interaction between the 'mind' and the senses really is one of the most amazing aspects of the natural world.

And since we cannot be sure how it works, it does seem foolish to dismiss, out of hand, 'sixth sense' phenomena such as blindsight.
It is probably even the case that we should not rush to dismiss, completely out of hand, even stranger 'paranormal' mental powers, such as telepathy, even though hard scientific evidence is lacking for such things.
The only certainty is that the more we learn about the workings of the mind, the more fantastical its abilities are proving to be.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... sense.html
 
This guys visual cortex may have been damaged, but perhaps his brain is rewiring seeing as visual stimuli are apparently still being sent to his brain. I want to know if he can still navigate that obstacle course while being blindfolded.
 
Xanatico said:
I want to know if he can still navigate that obstacle course while being blindfolded.
Good point, it would seem to be an obvious test.
 
Yup, blindness is not straightforward. There are different types. In fact, the only way to be sure that a person is completely blind is if they have no eyes at all.

I used to work with people with eye conditions and there is a huge range of ailments causing blindness, including conditions where there is nothing wrong with the eyes but the brain apparently can't make sense of the signals coming from the eyes. That sounds like just the sort of thing a stroke patient could have. ;)
 
Blindsight is quite well known and really has nothing to do with the visual cortex. Strangely enough, it seems that we can "see" with our whole body, not just the eyes. This seems to happen in the midbrain and was/is used by many lower [I don't like that word] animals.
Everyone has the ability. Try in complete darkness for someone to move their hand, you will be most likely to "feel/see" which direction it is going. Maybe that chap in the article has worked on that sense a little more.
 
Why not experiment with it?

It should be easy enough to just close your eyes and try walking about your own place, best at night. I would guess that with a bit of practice we would start to aquire some of this "blindsight" and that it might become useful. Guessing that you would have to focus away from your eyes yet still try to see. Seems a little odd but I think it is possible, sort of compartementalizing your mind. One example of this is that there are times that my body is quite asleep but my mind is equally awake. At those times my body will be horizontal but my mind will be oriented vertically, as if awake and standing.
 
Then once you´ve aquired your "blindsight" try moving the furniture around and see if you still have it.
 
I think I've witnessed this kind of 'blindsight' in my family. My granddad went blind because of glaucoma and he was also almost completely deaf and very difficult to communicate with. He'd say he couldn't see anything but would complain about lights being on, fluff on the carpet etc. When he was in hospital he complained that the tv in his room was a waste of time as he couldn't see it, only it was unplugged and sat in the corner doing nothing and he would tell us when it was raining outside (without being able to hear it).
Before he died he had a brain scan due to other health problems and his doctor told us he had vascular dementia, mainly in the part of the brain dealing with sight. I talked about this with my mum and we thought that perhaps he hadn't lost his sight through glaucoma but vascular dementia and that his eyes worked o.k. but his brain wasn't using the images as it normally would. Perhaps he could see but his brain couldn't give him a 'picture' but could still use the information coming in through his eyes.
 
Fascinating!

I wouldn't be surprised if another element has to do with our sense of feeling. E.g., feeling your body's heat being reflected, even subtly - and feeling where it's happening. Feeling any electrostatic charges an object might be giving off. What am I forgetting? Could we even perhaps feel the gravitational pull of objects? Air pressure changes between our bodies and objects?

Or maybe not. Maybe our sense of touch isn't sensitive enough to pull that off.

It's interesting to think that a healthy eye might be taking in information and sending it to another part of the brain that is interpreting it in some other, non-visual way. The brain is pretty good at doing stuff like that.
 
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