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Boogymen, Bogeymen & Boggarts

MrRING

MrRING

Android Futureman
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The concept of the boogyman being a real legend of some kind seems to be logical. Certianly in fiction, where there are numerous stories that have the basic premise: "The Boogyman is REAL, and the adults don't understand!".

But, in therms of anthropology and sociology, has there ever been a time where parents told children there was a "boogyman" who would gooble them up if they were bad? Was this confined to a single culture? And if it does actually exist as a folk practice, what do we know of it?

It seems to me that if it were anything more than a fiction, there would be something about it online, but I can't find anything.... and if it does have it's origin in a fiction, what story is it?
 
A little bit was found here (but it doesn't seem definative):

the boogyman

The Boogy Man, a story well-known by Americans as a monster living in little children's closets or under their beds, used to scare them into being good. But what most of us don't know it what the boogy man actually is...a Celtic monster. On halloween (also Celtic) children would carry around lit candels to ward of evil demons, spirits, and other monsters. These candles were called 'bogeys', hence 'bogey' or 'boogy' man. Weird, huh?
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http://hellbringnsheep.tripod.com/id1.html

Dead link, no archived version found.
 
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Doesn't Bogey come from Bogle and Boggart?


I know someone who still calls any small cupboard or space a *Bogey hole*.

edit- removed link cos after looking at it closely it didn't look too reliable
 
The words bogy, bogey, bogle, boggard, boggart etc all have similar meanings and presumably the same root.

I'd always assumed that the word bogeyman (boogeyman in the US?) was a generic one that had grown up to give shape to the anxieties created by an entire range of perceived threats to human beings - from wild animals to supernatural beings to bog standard flesh and blood psychopaths. I don't think that it's origins are as specific as definitions like werewolf or poltergeist.

Anyone with an OED might be able to tell us when the word first appeared in English.

In the UK, at least until the 50's, the word bogey was fairly common slang for a policeman.

Apparently the Boogie in Boogie-Woogie refers to a negro performer. I wonder if this is connected in some way? After all many forms of music that have their roots in Black culture have been referred to as the devil's music.
 
Mr. R.I.N.G. said:
A little bit was found here (but it doesn't seem definative):

the boogyman...On halloween (also Celtic) children would carry around lit candels to ward of evil demons, spirits, and other monsters. These candles were called 'bogeys', hence 'bogey' or 'boogy' man. Weird, huh?
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Maybe their confused with the word "bougie" which is French for a candle and, I think, a spark-plug. Don't know if it's origins are Celtic.
 
In German, the bogeyman is called "Schwarzer Mann". Literally translated, it means "Black Man".
There even is a nursery rhyme game about the Black Man, which starts off with "Wer fürchtet sich vorm Schwarzen Mann?", meaning, "Who's afraid of the Black Man?".

As far as I know, the origins of the nursery rhyme date back to the times of the Plague, where men wearing masks and dressed all in black collected all the corpses in carriages to take them away to the burial grounds.
It does not refer to people with dark/black skin. And still there are people who think it's racist and very un-PC. Not that I want to start a discussion about what's PC and what's not now... :)
When I was a kid I never thought of the "Schwarzer Mann" - the Bogeyman - as a human being with dark skin color or something like that. Because I didn't even think he was a human being at all, but rather something like a ghost or an evil spirit. I always imagined him to be something like a shadow, because he supposedly lives where it's dark and spooky - in the attic, in the basement, in old wardrobes, and so on.

I'm quite sure that when I was about 4 years old I even saw a bogeyman once. He looked like the silhouette of a human being, but with no dictinct features or anything, but all black with a few specks of white "inside", a bit like dead-TV-channel snow. And he was really fast and gone within a few seconds. Compared to other stuff I've been reading here I'd nowadays say it was a "shadow man" sighting. :)
 
I think a Germanic origin for the bookeyman is good possibility. Among the German-speaking countries, St. Nicholas is accompanied by a scary looking character (or characters) called Zwarter Peter - Black Peter. To take Switzerland as an example, on December 6th St. Nicholas will visit your house. Good children will get presents. Bad children will be beaten with switches by the black-skinned helpers - dark due to the Christmas associations with soot, chimneys, fire, coal, etc. - then bundled into the sack St. Nicholas carries and carried off into the woods and never seen again.

If we'd had this version of Santa Claus in England, I would never have been naughty again!!!

Perhaps each country or region replaces Zwarter Peter with their own 'monster'. I believe, for instance, that in England in at the turn of the 19th/20th century, Spring-heeled Jack would "come and get you" if you were a naughty child. The serial killer Mary Ann Cotton may also have served this purpose in County Durham.
 
Black Peter has been linked with the idea of the Wild Man, the worship of the spirit of the wild, in some countries. And it's tantalizing to connect the Boogyman to him, but I wonder where a sesonal fear could become all-year round, and without a holiday.... but very interesting stuff.
 
Funk and Wagnal have a number of entries around this:

bogey, bogie or bogy - a spirit of English folklore of indeterminate (but possibly Hobgoblin) nautre. They claim bogey is 19th century but is analgous to bogle, boggart, pooka, puck, etc. all of which probbaly derive from the Middle English bogge/bugge meaning terror/bugbear and the word is related to the Welsh bwg (bug). Similar creatures are the German Bumann/Boggelmann, the Irish bocin/puca (pooka), the Bohemian bubak, etc.

boggart - a hobgoblin or ghost esp. in Lancashire and Yorkshire. There were threats of the bogart-hole (which I assume is a hole where boggarts live and not an orifice). The Scottish equivalent is bogle.

There is an old Lancashire verse:

Stars is shining,
Moon is breet,
Boggard woknt cum oot toneet
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The boggart seems largely mischievous - pulling covers off your bed, knocking and running, rearranging your furniture so you pump into things when you get up in the night, etc. (sounds familiar) but can also help out doing the washing up, milking the cows. If it gets upset then it will smash things, make the milk go off and let the animals loose.

Most old English house have a boggart (although it is usually a ghost of mischievous spirit) e.g.: The boggart of Staining Hall (nr. Blackford) was th ghost of a murdered Scotsman, the boggart of Hackensall Hall was in the shape of a horse and would work willingly as long as it wa looked after (are we sure this isn't just a horse??).

The entry ends thusly "But boggarts are less and less frequently seen and heard today; that is because they are afraid of automobiles" so there you have it ;)

There are a number of folktales like the Lancashire"Boggart's Flitting" and there is one known widely acorss Northern Europe called "Bogle in the Mill"/"The Bear Trainer and his Bear" which seems to have spread down from Scandinavia about 1060.
 
bugaboo, bugbear, bogey, even booger (as in 'swamp booger')

You can't boogie with the Boogeyman
 
Wearamuda said:
I think a Germanic origin for the bookeyman is good possibility. Among the German-speaking countries, St. Nicholas is accompanied by a scary looking character (or characters) called Zwarter Peter - Black Peter. To take Switzerland as an example, on December 6th St. Nicholas will visit your house. Good children will get presents. Bad children will be beaten with switches by the black-skinned helpers - dark due to the Christmas associations with soot, chimneys, fire, coal, etc. - then bundled into the sack St. Nicholas carries and carried off into the woods and never seen again.
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In Austria, he's called "Krampus", and he looks like a devil - with horns and so on. The rest is the same, naughty children will be beaten or threatened to be carried off by the Krampus.
In the area around here, especially in the German-speaking part of Northern Italy he's the "Tuifl", a dialect word for "devil". People who dress up as the Tuifl will paint their faces black with coal, and will also try to smear other people's faces with coal. And children who've been naughty will receive a bag full of coal lumps instead of sweets.
 
Let's look at the goodly evidence that Emperor put out. So, let's say there is a creature that lives in peoples homes called a boggart. At a certain time, people believe in them (a holdover from household gods?) and try to treat them well or face the reprocussions. It is a figure of good and bad.

Over time, belief in them wains or is supressed, but parents remember what their ancestors believed and resort to it, the same as many parents do looking for advice to how to rear their children. And they recall that the boogart will get angry if mistreated, and over the years this becomes punishment for not going to sleep and minding the parents.

Is this plausible? And where does this leave the boogart/boogyman - a former house spirit reduced to belief by a small number of people around the world, mostly children?
 
Mr. R.I.N.G. said:
Is this plausible? And where does this leave the boogart/boogyman - a former house spirit reduced to belief by a small number of people around the world, mostly children?
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on the list of endangered fortean species :(
 
I've always thought of the boogeyman (or whatever your preferred spelling) as simply a handy embodiment of The Other--an outside, malevolent force.
 
Maybe children just naturally imagine all sorts of dangers in the dark, and maybe adults do, too. Nobody likes the dark, not pitch dark anyway. Like when there's a power failure, people who would ordinarily be asleep anyway get up and light candles and flashlights.
 
OED time (thanks uni subscription!)
boggart

1. A spectre, goblin, or bogy; in dialectal use, esp. a local goblin or sprite supposed to ‘haunt’ a particular gloomy spot, or scene of violence.

1570 LEVINS Manip. 30 A Boggarde, spectrum. c1730 BURT Lett. N. Scotl. (1818) I. 227 All that quarter of England is infested with boggarts of all sorts. 1821 MRS. WHEELER Westmorld. Dial. 39 Sic a terrable boggart as I beleev nivver onny yan saa befoar. 1855 Whitby Gloss., Boggle, Boggart, a fearful object, a hobgoblin. 1857 in Bohn Handbk. Proverbs 152 He thinks every bush a boggard.



b. fig. A bugbear, a source of dread.

1575 Brieff Disc. Troubl. Franckford (1846) 160 Nor be such buggarddes to the poor, yff they may not beare the bagge alone. 1616 Rollocke's Hist. Passion 132 (Jam.) Hell is but a boggarde to scarre children.



2. An object real or imaginary at which a horse shies or ‘boggles’. Obs.

1617 MARKHAM Caval. II. xii. 112 How to correct a horse that is skittish, and fearefull and findeth many boggards. 1639 DE GREY Compl. Horsem. 28 The horse will..stare and see boggards in his keepers face. 1725 BRADLEY Fam. Dict. II. s.v. Horses, It betrays a weak, slight and unnecessary Starting, or finding of Baggards. [1863 Standard 1 Jan., When a horse takes fright at some object unobserved by its master the vulgar opinion is that it has seen the boggart.]
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Apparently boggarty means "haunted by boggarts".

bogy
1. As quasi-proper name: The evil one, the devil.

1836-40 BARHAM Ingol. Leg., Witches' Frolic, But hears the words ‘Scratch’ and ‘Old Bogey’ and ‘Nick’. Ibid. (1840) 322 Then Boguey'd have you sure as eggs is eggs. 1840 GEN. P. THOMPSON Exerc. (1842) V. 88 To admit to evidence such as avow their credence in ‘old Bogie’. 1851 THACKERAY Eng. Hum. v. (1858) 239 The people are all naughty and Bogey carries them all off. 1865 E. C. CLAYTON Cruel Fort. III. 85 I'll put out the light and go away, and leave you all by yourself with Bogie. 1879 M. CONWAY Demonol. I. I. iii. 16.



2. A bogle or goblin; a person much dreaded.

1857 S. OSBORN Quedah ii. 17 Malay pirates..those bogies of the Archipelago. 1863 KINGSLEY Water Bab. (1878) 19 On the top of each gate post a most dreadful bogy. 1863 BARING-GOULD Iceland 118 The sheepwalks have got a bad name for bogies.



3. fig. An object of terror or dread; a bugbear.

1865 Daily Tel. 27 Nov. 2/3 Reform is not a bogy to cheat, but a blessing to recognise and regulate. 1878 N. Amer. Rev. 135 Men..who discover bogies in every measure.



4. Criminals' slang. A detective; a policeman.

1924 S. SCOTT Human Side i. 23 Men will listen to the vilest epithets, but call them ‘bogey’, ‘brassey’, ‘copper’, or ‘policeman’, and they will be at your throat. 1931 W. F. BROWN in Police Jrnl. Oct. 501 She told a detective (bogey) she knew that Jack was in the brothel (case). 1936 J. CURTIS Gilt Kid 17 One of the bogies from Vine Street reckernizes me. 1960 Observer 24 Jan. 7/2 Suppose..a bogy did get it up for a villain now and again by making sure that some gear was found in his flat?



5. A piece of dried nasal mucus. colloq.

1937 in PARTRIDGE Dict. Slang 853/1 s.v. sweep. 1955 K. AMIS That Uncertain Feeling xii. 158 ‘You've got a bogey on your nose. Improves your looks no end.’ I was near the mirror... I peeped in and saw the bogey. It was large and vermiform and clung to the wing of my right nostril. Ibid. xiii. 176, I felt my nostrils carefully, testing for bogeys. 1967 D. PINNER Ritual xv. 148 He..removed wax from ears, bogeys from nose, blackheads from chin.



6. An unidentified aircraft; an enemy aeroplane. slang.

1943 WARD-JACKSON Piece of Cake 16 Bogey, a friendly aircraft [corrected in ed. 1945 to:] a suspect aircraft. 1944 Life 17 July 20 Before supper was over this evening, several ‘bogeys’as unidentified planes are called under such circumstanceswere seen approaching from different directions.



7. attrib. and Comb., as bogy-man, -word, etc.

1863 KINGSLEY Water Bab. iv. 146 The old German bogy-painters. c1890 Bogey man [see note s.v. BOGEY]. 1912 G. B. SHAW in Christian Globe 22 Feb. 433/4 It was manlier than clinging to Britannia's skirts for protection against the Bogey Man with the triple tiara. 1919 J. L. GARVIN Econ. Found. Peace 112 To confuse or weaken the Allies by using ‘Bolshevism’ as a bogey-word. 1926 FOWLER Mod. Eng. Usage 559/1 Bogy-haunted creatures who for fear of splitting an infinitive abstain from doing something quite different. 1954 J. R. R. TOLKIEN Fellowship of Ring I. vi. 121 The old bogey-stories Fatty's nurses used to tell him. 1959 Listener 16 Apr. 657/2 Black children were brought up to believe that if they were naughty the white bogy-man would come and gobble them up.



Hence bogydom, the domain of Old Bogy. bogyism, the recognition of bogies. bogyphobia, dread of bogies.

1880 Daily Tel. 2 Dec., A sulphurous odour..suggestive of bogeydom. 1876 Athenæum 14 Oct. 495/3 The author seems to be a spiritualist, or, at least, to have a leaning to banshees and bogyism. 1872 LIVINGSTONE in Daily News 29 July, I am not liable to fits of bogiephobia.
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bogle

1. A phantom causing fright; a goblin, bogy, or spectre of the night; an undefined creature of superstitious dread. (Usually supposed to be black, and to have something of human attributes, though spoken of as it.) Also, applied contemptuously to a human being who is ‘a fright to behold’.

c1505 DUNBAR Tua mariit Wem. 111 The luif blenkis of that bogill, fra his blerde ene. 1535 STEWART Cron. Scot. III. 134 Like ane bogill all of ratland banis. 1646 R. BAILLIE Anabapt. (1647) 44 The Devils are nothing but only boggles in the night, to terrifie men. 1752 Scots Mag. (1753) Sept. 451/1 There used to be bogles seen. 1790 BURNS Tam o'Shanter, Whiles glow'ring round wi' prudent cares, Lest bogles catch him unawares. 1808 Cumbrian Ball. iii. 8 A boggle's been seen wi' twee heads. 1814 SCOTT Wav. lxxi, I played at bogle about the bush wi' them. 1822 T. BEWICK Mem. 20, I had not..got over a belief in ghosts and boggles. 1824 BYRON Juan XI. lxxii, A sort of sentimental bogle, Which sits for ever upon memory's crupper. 1832 SOUTHEY Lett. (1856) IV. 281 Boggles and Barguests are the only supernatural beings we hear of in these parts [Keswick]. 1864 TENNYSON North. Farmer viii, Theer wur a boggle in it, I often 'eerd un mysen.



2. fig. and transf. a. A bugbear (not a phantom). b. A thing unsubstantial, a mere phantom.

1663 LAUDERDALE in Papers (1884) I. cvi. 185, I have written so much that I doe feare my hand shall grow a bug~beare, or as we say heir a bogell. 1792 BURNS Despondency iii, The sillie bogles, wealth and state, Can never make them eerie.



3. transf. A scarecrow. (In common use in north.)

1830 GALT Lawrie T. VII. ix. (1849) 343 Bogles made of clouts. 1884 Gd. Words May 324/2 Potato bogles or scarecrows..vary in size..and dress, in nearly every parish.



Hence bogle-bo [see BO.] = BOGLE; bogle-dom, the realm or domain of bogles.

1603 Philotus ii, Quhat reck to tak the Bogill-bo, My bonie burd for anis. 1678 COLES Lat. Dict., Boggle-bo..an ugly wide-mouthed picture carried about with May games. 1730-6 BAILEY, Boggle-boe, a bugbear to fright Children, a scare crow. ?a1800 Rhymes in Proc. Berw. Nat. Club I. v. 148 The bogle bo' of Billy Mire Wha kills our bairns a'. 1860 G. H. K. Vac. Tour 171 Donald! Donald! keep out of the regions of bogledom.
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Get your teeth stuck into that! :twisted:
 
Mr. R.I.N.G. said:
Let's look at the goodly evidence that Emperor put out. So, let's say there is a creature that lives in peoples homes called a boggart. At a certain time, people believe in them (a holdover from household gods?) and try to treat them well or face the reprocussions. It is a figure of good and bad.

Over time, belief in them wains or is supressed, but parents remember what their ancestors believed and resort to it, the same as many parents do looking for advice to how to rear their children. And they recall that the boogart will get angry if mistreated, and over the years this becomes punishment for not going to sleep and minding the parents.

Is this plausible? And where does this leave the boogart/boogyman - a former house spirit reduced to belief by a small number of people around the world, mostly children?
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Essentially - although I wouldn't go quite as far as to suggest it was household Gods.

Basically (like most supernatural entities) it has two functions:

1. To act as a punishment for societal transgressions - it is one technique to reinforce various laws.

2. To act as a scapegoat - you can explain away bad luck on a personal level rather than on a "shit happens" kind of way.

The two work together - so if someone's milk goes off you can suggest it because she cheated with another women's husband.

You can see that as society became more "sophisticated"/"rational" such supersitions became less effective on adults and it lost its second meaning and came to be used to scare children in a similar way as it would have done for adults in previous times.
 
No Go the Bogeyman
by Marina Warner examines bogeymen. it also has some great artwork.
 
dreeness said:
Maybe children just naturally imagine all sorts of dangers in the dark, and maybe adults do, too.
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I know I find the dark a bit weird. It's alright at home, sleeping in a totally dark room is good (and if there was a powercut I think it's quite fun) but when I'm out on my bike at night, the lights illuminate the path ahead but behind and around you is totally dark, I begin to imagine all the paranormal entities that could be peering at me from the bushes. Forests are really spooky at night ;)

Then there's the bit when you're cycling along and out of nowhere your lights pick up a man with a dog. And then later 2 men with 5 dogs. They're possibly the most surprising, as they're really there, but you don't see them initially :)
 
This might be something:

"Sometines the person detects a shadowy figure."

more at this link

Original link dead, archived version here.

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The idea of the "lurking maniac" might be the modern urban equivalent of the bogey-monster. Particularly for apartment-dwellers, I've seen a lot of apartments with doors that are more lock than door, multiple heavy deadbolts and steel rods. It's a different threat, but it's still the same fear, something nameless, faceless, ravening, everywhere and nowhere, maybe not there at all, or maybe as close as the nearest shadow...
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Hi Colin,
Yes, there's something especially creepy about the woods at night, that's probably why so many classic terror tales take place in forests.
Sometimes people die from exposure less than a mile from safety, they must get disoriented and panic or something like that, almost literally scared to death, sort of.
 
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The Boggart of Rochdale

I used to work in Rochdale and was always intrigued by the legend of the Boggart (or Boggard).

Such stories - usually ill-defined and lacking detail - were usually trotted out during celebrations to justify a Chinese-dragon-type-display. Other times, they were alluded to in local tales.

Also, down the road is Boggart Hall Clough in Middleton, a deep ravine on the outskirts of Manchester that is not only very spooky in anything less than full sunlight (and even then it's not a very socialable place to be) but is a total mystery to me ...

But I have yet to hear any definitive tales of the Boggart, or what it is supposed to be/what it does/where it comes from. Does anyone know anything about the Boggart or similar legends?

Cheers

LMS
 
This recent thread: Origins of the Boogyman is a good place to start on here.

(stu edit - link removed cos I've merged the two topics)
 
I think the definition varies from region to region, though boggarts are mainly a northern English thing. They're quite similar to ghouls, IIRC, in tha they feed on emotions, producing cold spots and draining the energy of people nearby to manifest (poss why many caves and deep sunless valleys are associated with them, as these places are often cold regardless of the season).
 
boggart - a hobgoblin or ghost esp. in Lancashire and Yorkshire. There were threats of the bogart-hole (which I assume is a hole where boggarts live and not an orifice). Most old English house have a boggart (although it is usually a ghost of mischievous spirit) e.g.: The boggart of Staining Hall (nr. Blackford) was the ghost of a murdered Scotsman, the boggart of Hackensall Hall was in the shape of a horse and would work willingly as long as it wa looked after (are we sure this isn't just a horse??).

Cheers for that!

I've always been interested why the Middleton site is called "Boggart Hall Clough". I don't know of a Boggart nearby, though Clough is local for 'big hole', it seems. Though, of course, I could be mis-spelling it and it's actually Boggart Hole Clough (but why call somewhere essentially Boggart Hole Hole?!?)(
 
Tales of Boggarts are common around northern England. One resided (and may still) in 'Hurtle Pot' in Chapel-le-Dale. The pothole is a huge gash in the earth with a deep, black pool at the bottom.
Strange goings on there have been recorded for hundreds of years. In more recent times though the boggart's been content with just frightening people with noises.



This definition is from monstrous.com;-

Boggarts


Aka : Hobgoblins, Bogans, Bauchans, Gobelins, the Boogey Man, Boogies, Padfoot, Hobbers, Gobs, Blobs.

Race : Goblins, cousins of the Brownies

Origin : Scotland.

Element : earth

Appearance : a male dwarf with a squat and distorted form.

Friends/Foes : cousin of the Brownie but ill-tempered and greedy

Lore : squats sometimes houses that he utterly destroys. He especially loves to eat smooth wood like a termite and to torment children.One of the best ways to get rid of him is to ask the boggart to leave the house and stay out as long as 'the hollies are green'. It will mostly likely take at least two seasons for him to remember that hollies are always green and that he has been tricked. His resulting anger most likely needn't be feared as he will never be able to enter the house again.
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I know I have written about the Boggart Hole Boggart on here before but the search engine is saying No. :cry:

There were indeed legends of a Boggart and even a stone which was said to have been the remains of his Hall. The most often recounted tale is of the man who was haunted so badly by the creature that he packed up and left. Meeting a firend on the road he explained why, only to hear the Boggart laugh, "Aye, we're flitting!" from somewhere in his luggage!

Strictly the park is in Blackley, about three miles South of Middleton. Booth Hall Children's Hospital overlooks it and I seem to recall that one of our posters reported seeing a ghost on Charlestown Road when he was dating a nurse from the hospital. Can't find that post either. :cry:
 
I've heard that in some parts of Ireland Cromwell is still used as a "shut-up and go to sleep or the bogeyman will get you" figure.
Fledermaus, in Italy a witch regularly brings children coal (sweet coal made out of sugar!) for christmas, I've forgotten what she's called.
 
I thought that the bogeyman came, etymologically, from the Bugis people of Indonesia, reputed to be a fearsone and piratical lot who filed their teeth to points to enhance the effect. They are still sailors and traders off Sulawesi.

But this look like one that has been lost in the mists.
 
James H said:
Fledermaus, in Italy a witch regularly brings children coal (sweet coal made out of sugar!) for christmas, I've forgotten what she's called.
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She's called "la Befana" - from the word "Epiphany" - and she comes on the night of January 6th, leaving presents in children's stockings hung upon the hearth or something like that, a bit like Santa Claus.
Children who've been naughty only get garlic, onions and charcoal.

The coal-like sweets must be for the semi-naughty children, then. :)
 
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