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Christianity - A Failing Religion?

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Does anyone think that Christianity is failing as a religion?

With more and more people 'converting' to other religions (Buddhism, Wicca, etc) and with people's different opinions on subjects that the Church deems sinful (homosexuality, abortions, etc), are the Christians dying out?

Maybe not quickly, but possibly slowly but surely??

What do you guys think?
 
A world without religion of any creed could only be a better place.
 
Religion per se is ok. It's fundamentalism and dogma that stink.

Strip it bare. Have a 'personal religion' for each of us.

Experience the universe in your own way.
Do no harm.
Love.

I reckon Christianity has some cool roots. Shame it got spoiled by greed and empire-building.
 
Any one whos been into a low church church of england church of late will have noticed a significant sweeling of numbers over the last few years, there are other branches of christianity in the uk that are slowly looseing members... its all due to changing atatudes, the churches with a more liberal bent are on the incress and some of the more conserveative churches are on the decress.

However even with that, you have to remember that not all christians even go to church. to use an analagy a church is a bit like a reading group, you don't have to join one to like reading books or even to be able to read, but meating up with like minded people who have the same tastes in books as you dose tend to incress your enjoyment.

At the last UK census 70% of the population of england and Wales claimed to be christians, considering we are one of the worlds most multi cultural nations thats not, in my opinion the kind of statistics I would call failing. your neigbour could even be a christian and you not know it (in fact staticicly theres a 7/10 probability he is).
 
Lord_Flashheart said:
Any one whos been into a low church church of england church of late will have noticed a significant sweeling of numbers over the last few years, there are other branches of christianity in the uk that are slowly looseing members... its all due to changing atatudes, the churches with a more liberal bent are on the incress and some of the more conserveative churches are on the decress.
... your neigbour could even be a christian and you not know it (in fact staticicly theres a 7/10 probability he is).
Click to expand...

Unfortuantely (for me) most Christians I meet are evangelical, and believe only their way is the right way (even excluding other Christians cos they're lost and mistaken), or completely lapsed, 'in name only' Christians. And they all lack humility and compassion.

I'm sure there must be some Christians of good heart. I just never meet them.
I bet you could be such a man, Lord Flash.

EDIT; My neighbours are Christians, but when they think nobody can hear them they moan about all the charity work they have to do... and they are unable to love anything that is different from their small world view.

(No, I'm not 'anti-Christian' in the slightest, just anti-dogma, I see the narrow mindedness of many Christians and it saddens me.)
 
Certainly true that Christianity is having a rough time in Britain, but globally it seems a little different. The Vatican maintains that it is going from strength to strength in South America & Africa (where Protestant denom.s seem to be gaining too). The Russian Orthodox has experienced a significant revival, with the other Eastern Orthodox churchs maintaining their ground. Globally, Protestant evangelical groups are stirring things up (latest case being Mongolia, where Buddhist traditionalists have become alarmed at the activities of American-trained evangelists). And of course, in the USA some of the more 'enthusiatic' groupings wield a fair deal of political influence...

Looks to me as if Christianity is alive and kicking. Question is, will it's expansive tendencies bring further destablisation in the future? Guess the time has come for a fairly hefty dose of ecumenical good will. :)

And whatever happens, the fact remains that we invented algebra, and they did not ;)
 
If it is gaining in popularity, I hope it keeps true to the original tenets of love and understanding.
(God, I'm sooo naive):(
 
After tonight's vestry meeting (church council meeting), I'm starting to hope it will -- decline, that is.

Oh, but not really.

I live in a great mixing bowl of spiritual thought (Santa Cruz, California), and Christianity's not on the hot list here.
 
David Raven said:
If it is gaining in popularity, I hope it keeps true to the original tenets of love and understanding.
(God, I'm sooo naive):(
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Those are the bits I like as well, along with forgiveness and mercy. :)
 
Androman...this guy undergoing nhs dentistry on your post?
Seems to me that in the countryside (where I live) christianity is certainly struggling, churches are finding running costs too high, congregations dwindling and mainly old, and chapels closing - two chapels are to close in Penzance next year alone- so it would appear so around here.
Trouble is, as "ordinary" christians decline in number then the fundamentalists increase in vociferousness and power.
For my own part I'm agnostic, but my quaker friends regard me as a quaker and my pagan friends, a pagan!
 
brian ellwood said:
For my own part I'm agnostic, but my quaker friends regard me as a quaker and my pagan friends, a pagan!
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Ah! Welcome fellow Pagan Quaker... :D :hello: :yeay: :blissed:
 
That makes three of us here then. Quakers are a funny kind of Christian aren't they? No priests, no churches, no Bible on show and an openness to other religions like Buddhism and Paganism - now thats my kind of Christianity!
 
brian ellwood said:
Androman...this guy undergoing nhs dentistry on your post?
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That's a man hoping very much that the West is still holding true to the Christian tenets of 'love, understanding, forgiveness and mercy.'

However, he may well be sadly disappointed.
 
Don't know if folks saw this, but a recently released survey indicated that the percentage of Americans identifying as 'Christian' fell alomost 10% between 1990-2001, while the number stating they were affiliated with "no organized religion" rose from 8-14% over the same period. Full results and discussion of the survey can be found at http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm

Overstereotype here, but I notice in some places (particularly rural areas and the south) that a number of people belong to churches for what would seem to be primarily social reasons. The same way one might join a fraternity or a country club. Be accepted by the 'respectable' folk, cultivate business contacts, whatever. The more that aspect is eroded can only be healthy for both Christianity and the rest of society, IMHO.

Oh, and, BTW, re:quakers. Very funny, but I took one of those questionaires a few years ago seeing what kind of church one was most compatible with. I think I ended up with Quakers first and Mennonites second. Trouble is I really like a strongly liturgical/high church kind of service. So probably sticking with either the Lutherans or Anglicans.
 
Dunamis said:
Does anyone think that Christianity is failing as a religion?

With more and more people 'converting' to other religions (Buddhism, Wicca, etc) and with people's different opinions on subjects that the Church deems sinful (homosexuality, abortions, etc), are the Christians dying out?

Maybe not quickly, but possibly slowly but surely??

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

I certainly hope it is dying out. I also hope that it won't get replaced by more extreme religions.
A world without organised religion will be a much better place.
 
This is perhaps tangental, but in these kind of discussions the phrase 'organised religion' tends to pop up as a perjorative.

In what sense 'organised'?

Where the the relationship with deity is mediated by priests, ministers and such like? True of some religions, some of the time, yet the term is applied to religions that notably lack such institutions as well...

Where a defined philosophical core exists? Show me one that doesn't. Even antinomianism has it's parameters...

Take those two definitions together, and every religion that has ever existed is covered - unlimited extention, null intention - an empty, meaningless phrase.

Which is rather Fortean - most people accept the existence of 'organised religion' on face value due to the term's constant repetition, yet the phrase seems on examination to lack substance.

It seems to be used to promote freedom of the individual to liberty of conscience - amen to that, but then surely the individual has a right to establish canons of consistency and worth. Actually, it occurs naturally - our propensity for setting our thoughts in order leads to the formation of paradigms - and paradigms are defined by what they exclude.

So, I'm not against 'organised religion' as I feel the term is empty. However, I am for an acceptence of diversity and mutual respect.

As I said, tangental. We now retrun to our regular programme schedule...
:)
 
Organised religion; anything with a definite heirarchy, usually involving taking your money away, as in Catholicism.
 
I can only hope, that as a race, we will one day grow out of religion, and its many shakles. Take responsibility for our actions, instead of blaming some Schizophrenic God head!!!!!!Free your minds!!
 
Personally I don't really beleive there is a place for religion in the 21st Century.
However I do beleive that decisions like the one taken at my local library are going to further stifle and kill Christianity.
High Wycombe Council have banned a local church from putting up posters for its Xmas Carol concert in the library because it might offend people of other religions.
The same library that held a Ramadan party to celebrate Ramadan a few weeks earlier.
Like national pride, Christianity appears to be being stamped out in England by the lunatic left. For shame.
 
Guess I'm a bit of a mystic, but I think that if you view a religion as a set of spiritual technologies designed to put you in touch with your place in the scheme of things, it's relevence is perrenial.

Good point about hierachy...but is hierachy necessarily bad? Surely any system is only as good as the people involved. Each ought to be judged upon its merits.

Sunni Islam is non-hierachical - their exists a divison of labour demanding specialised training, but that does not elevate - yet sects exist that seem to believe that might is right. Lacking an arbitrating authority beyond the concensus of the well-informed, their is no mechanism within the community to pull Usama & co back into line.

Not a problem the Vatican has, it seems...

Musings...just musings...deep issue that cannot be rendered black or white...polychromatic, as always...
 
Re: Re: Christianity - A Failing Religion?

Mythopoeika said:
A world without organised religion will be a much better place.
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And this world would be better how exactly? :confused:

people would only use other excuses for terrorisam, war or what ever... In fact, well bugger me, they do now and always have done. Who gets the most fertile grazeing/ most mineral rich land, I want a big empire so everyone thinks I'm 'arrd and your ancestors nicked the wooly mamoth our ancestors killed or-was-it-the-other-way-round-I-forget have always been much more popular reasons for war or terrorisam than religious differences. In fact, most reasons for conflict do boil down to those 3 resons I just gave but religion is often employed as some sort of window dressing to get the proles on board ("look we can't loose God is on our side!" etc, etc :rolleyes: ), religion is very rarely the route cause of any large scale conflict.
 
Re: Re: Re: Christianity - A Failing Religion?

Lord_Flashheart said:
.... religion is very rarely the route cause of any large scale conflict.
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Have to disagree there Flash - look at Ulster, Lebanon, etc today - whilst there is a territorial element to it, it's still mainly about different religions (or differing factions within the same religion) trying to assert dominance.
 
Originally posted by Lord_Flashheart
religion is very rarely the route cause of any large scale conflict
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What about the Holocaust during WWII?
 
Is it Xtianity falling out of favour, or is it a particular brand of Xtianity? (or any major religion in fact),

Specifically the strains that are now under pressure to change, because of a general shift in attitudes towards gays, women, alternative lifestyles, marriage, and any other number of issues.

It would seem that any established organisation that sees that its customer base may (and it only needs to be may) start drifting away, will start pushing its particular brand and ethos with renewed vigour, will adopt a back-to-basics attitude.

While I'm not suggesting that people are being driven away by fire and brimstone fundamentalism in the church, it may be that whilst the central message of 'Be good' and 'Love thy neighbour' may still be very appealing, some of the other tenets may just not make sense in this day and age

Again I can only speak from my own experience, being a recovering Baptist
 
Just to exhaust the the 'religion causes wars' argument, it is true that two of the most heinous events of world history were primarily religious in character - The Thirty Years War & The Tai-Ping Rebellion. Both make Ulster & the Crusades look a little tame.

But here comes 'however'....none where purely religious in character, in much the way that the First World War (often spoken of as the first 'industrial' conflict) was hardly as modern as people think. For every apparently religious conflict, a counter example with a secular hue can be forwarded.

Or you have examples like Timur i Lenk. When Timur was on his rampage, leading religious figures of the day attempted to act as a break on his excesses. During the Crusades, there was a widespread pacifist movement within th church favouring the so-called 'Peace of God'. Religion may be one factor in the Northern Irish conflict, but it is also at the forefront of the peace initiative.

'Truth is seldom plain and never simple'...brings us back to the polychromatic nature of thinks, and the need to avoid sweeping generalisation.

So 'religion causes wars' is a little too binary. How about 'insecurity, well founded or otherwise, causes wars'?

(Bit rambling, that...but I've just awoken and the nicotine is only just kicking in :) )
 
I don't think that Christianity is dying out at all. There are more and more people attending churches, although it seems to be the more 'happy clappy' forms that are becoming more popular. This rise seems to be fairly recent, however.

The mellow C of E variety is the one form that's becoming less popular, simply because there's not many sticks or carrots being used there. No memetic hooks.

<steps on soap box>

One thing that annoys me - well two - is the knocking of religion by people who don't really understand what it means to a person to have a religion in their lives, and the term 'organised religion'.

What's the opposite of organised religion? Disorganised religion? Some structure is a good thing. A bland mish-mash of beliefs taken from here and there is next to useless. This is not the same as studying various religious traditions in order to understand them better. That's always good.

</steps on soap box>
 
I have to agree with posters above that religion is not a cause for was but often an excuse.

It wouldn't surprise me if Christianity died out in this country, particularly when I read posts like McAvennies about his local library. I always hope these kinds of things are ULs, but it is happening. It is just flamin' ridiculous.

I think it would be a shame, most Christians, whatever you think about starting wars and so on, do not personally invade anyones country, you do not know, passing in the street, who is a Christian or not. When one of my Greta Aunts died, another Great Aunt, who was extremely distressed by it said "It was Gods will" when I went to hug her, this was what gave her comfort in losing her sister and companion of 70 odd years. What is bad about that?

Edit-forgot I was going to add that there are many countries all over the world that are Christian or have strong Christian groups within them, it is still going strong in these countries, even if it does wither in the UK, it will still keep going in Africa, South America and so on.
 
A journo. once asked Mazhar Alanson (a Turkish folk muscian of extraordinary cool) what it was that made him such a chill individual & all round diamond.

He replied: 'I know that one day I will die'.

Now, Mazhar is a sufi on the quiet, and knows his stuff. When it is engaged in deeply, religion brings out the best.

Things seem to go wrong when sophisticated doctrines are reduced to suit folk's expectations - and when enthusiasm impinges. Funny thing, but there appears to be a concensus among us all that zeal is a problem.

Part of the problem in England (I don't want to extend this to the other nations of the British Isles, as there things are a little different) is that mainstream Christianity has diluted itself to the point of being insipid. However, step outside of the mainstream, and the traditions of native mysticism and the great stream of genius running down from the likes of the Quakers & Diggers through characters like Blake & Spare is still in evidence.

So, as the centre implodes the circumference rushes in the fill the void. Maybe not a bad thing, as the non-conformist tradition in Britain as a whole is a treasure.
 
Oh, I would place Wicca in that tradition of English non-conformism, which would mean that arguably the most successful modern global religion (and certainly one of the most constructive & benign) has emerged from the British Isles within living memory.

Evidence of spiritual fertility, perhaps :)
 
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