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'Chupacabras' Again?

So then one would naturally ask,If a coyote hybrid is the texan/mexican chupacabra,what is its island bound brethren?

As a native puerto rican I'm pretty sure we lack coyotes on the island,we do have a LARGE population of stray dogs though.

Any theories folks?
 
MinusType said:
So then one would naturally ask,If a coyote hybrid is the texan/mexican chupacabra,what is its island bound brethren?

As a native puerto rican I'm pretty sure we lack coyotes on the island,we do have a LARGE population of stray dogs though.

Any theories folks?

But could someone have imported coyotes as pets? They stray, they mate with stray dogs.
 
Dear God, I hope not! Coyotes wouldn't make good pets, and aren't likely to tempt the kind of people who like to think they can keep tame wild animals even when it's clearly a stupid idea. Coyote is neither cute nor macho; he's a scrawny, sly, resourceful trickster; and he doesn't clean up that good, either.

The notion that the Puerto Rican chupacabras is a conflation of sightings of rare (as yet undocumented) native porcupines with the behavior of invasive mongooses is intriguing; but until we can find the porcupines, regardless of how good the circumstantial evidence, this is explaining one unknown with another. Finding a cryptic native porcupine on an island as small and densely-populated as Puerto Rico would be exciting.
 
Dear God, I hope not! Coyotes wouldn't make good pets, and aren't likely to tempt the kind of people who like to think they can keep tame wild animals even when it's clearly a stupid idea. Coyote is neither cute nor macho; he's a scrawny, sly, resourceful trickster; and he doesn't clean up that good, either.

People think tigers, leopards, cheetahs, crocodiles, alligators, pythons, boas etc make good pets. Nothing to stopping them thinking the same about coyotes. They might even let them loose when they get troublesome.
 
Nothing preventing them - except the coyote. All the animals you listed and every exotic pet I ever heard of was pretty or macho or, preferably, both. Coyotes are neither.

Although this woman (http://www.dailycoyote.net/) bottle-raised an orphan one, in Wyoming, you would have to prove it to me that anybody ever imported one to Puerto Rico, let alone enough to make a population. Coyote as pet is a logical possiblity at the "made-up-story introducing an unlikely non-supernatural element just to have one" end of the spectrum, not at the "parsimonious explanation" end. I just don't think that dog'll hunt.

Anyway, the Puerto Rican chupacabras isn't doglike; although this doesn't mean I wash out mundane feral dogs as responsible for reports. Canid features only got introduced to the popular image on the mainland.
 
I lived on the boarder of San Juan & Caguas,and there was a drug dealer who let a pet panther loose to distract police BUT I would think its more or less the mentality of ''That's so bad ass'' more than anything else
Coyotes aren't renowned for being super bad ass.

And just before the ''then its panthers!'' arise from the crowd,every animal that the panther in this case came into contact with got chomped apart.

Y'know what really has me thinking? I had a cousin who lived in Texas and she was driving in a rural part of San Antonio during sunset.She owned a minivan at the time I believe.So there just was driving up the road when suddenly something thudded onto the roof of the van.Naturally she halted and something grey rolled down the windshield of her car.It was the size of a child.She would normally have gotten out to check on the unfortunate beast had it not stood up screeching and hobbled off.I'm just repeating what I was told although I'm sure if I actually had a chance to ask her about it I'd get more detail than that.
 
Children come in a lot of sizes. How old is the child she was thinking of for a size comparison?

This is of course very interesting to me. Can you find out more specifically where in San Antonio it was, the time of year, and time of day? The height of the impact makes me think automatically of birds - and most birds look gray in some conditions - but some bastard could have hurled a cat or dog out of a vehicle, and it's possible to imagine situations in which a jackrabbit got up that high. Jackrabbits are rangy and look even bigger sprawled on your windshield. These scenarios are pretty unlikely. I suppose she or someone ahead of her might have hit an animal at such an angle that it was flung into the air.

Although I'm sure we all agree we wish she'd tried to get a closer look, an injured wild animal is nothing to mess with and if visibility was bad at all even trying to locate it on the side of the road wouldn't be a wise thing to do.
 
I'll try to get a hold of her and ask her.
But only at the risk of being accused of being a witch again...Lol.
 
It's been a while - but they are making news again:

Chupacabra Sighting Times Two

A barn in Hood County, Texas, has become ground zero in the hunt for the chupacabra.

Earlier this week, animal control officer Frank Hackett shot and killed what was unquestionably one of the ugliest creatures to ever walk the planet. That much we know. What's less clear is whether or not the departed creature was the elusive goat-sucking beast.

Interestingly, that wasn't the only chupacabra sighting around Hood County. A second creature was spotted and killed several miles away. Both appear to be either hairless coyotes, extremely ugly dogs, or, who knows? Maybe the thing they call el chupacabra.

In the wake of the discovery, Web searches on "chupacabra sightings" and "chupacabra texas" both roared to life, as did Web lookups for "chupacabra translation" and "chupacabra definition." According to Virtue Science, the name literally translates to "goat sucker." Legend states that the beast would attack goats and suck their blood. Think of them as a less sexy version of "Twilight"'s infamous vampire Edward Cullen.

Officer Hackett was careful not to say whether or not this is really the mysterious beast. He's going to wait for the DNA tests before he makes up his mind. There is one thing he does know: "It wasn't normal." And another officer on the scene commented that she'd "never seen anything like it."

Below you can watch the locals discuss their findings, but beware. The images of the creature are quite nasty.

There is an NBC News video at the site, which doesn't want to load for me right now - will have to try again later.

http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzzlog/93844?fp=1[/list]
 
The vid played fine for me and guess what?!

It's another fox/dog/coyote with mange...
 
Fluttermoth said:
The vid played fine for me and guess what?!

It's another fox/dog/coyote with mange...

Got it to run on my home computer - and yes, coyote with mange would be my guess.
 
Fair play though, no one seemed to take it seriously, even Cryptomudo seemed exasperated with this one. this is pure silly season, none the less entertaining though.

On a related note I always though that the Chupacabra was as puerile as it got, equating cryptozoology with, 'monsters down the woods' hunts of childhood. After reading one of these threads though, it turns out that there's evidence suggesting the Puerto Rican examples being in part due to the result of mongoose attacks, which as an introduced species put it firmly in the remit, in my view.
 
Has the legendary chupacabra been found? Man shoots dead mysterious grey-skinned creature
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 7:46 AM on 28th December 2010

Is this mysterious creature a fabled chupacabra, or just a follicly challenged raccoon?
The bald, grey-skinned creature was shot and killed in Lebanon Junction, Kentucky, after it emerged from woodland into the garden of a home.
But the animal, which has large ears, whiskers and a long tail, has sparked intense debate on the internet, with some claiming it is one of the mythical chupacabras.

Stories of the blood-sucking creature began circulating in Puerto Rico 15 years ago and since then tales of the havoc it causes have swept from Chile through Mexico and into southern U.S. states.

Mark Cothren shot the animal as it walked into his front yard because he did not recognise it.
He told Wave3.com: 'I was like "every animal has hair, especially this time of year!".
'What puzzled me is how something like that could survive through a winter with no hair.
'Everybody is getting very curious, you know. The phone is ringing off the hook. It's kind of a mystery right now.'

The animal was the size of a house cat, but some people have speculated it could even be a legendary chupacabra.
The chupacabra - also known as the 'goat sucker' - is believed to kill goats and suck their blood.
People have claimed to have seen it in South America, Mexico, Puerto Rico and even Texas and Oklahoma.

Sam Clites, from Louisville Zoo, said he would have to see the animal in person to determine what species it was. He said he thought it was a raccoon or dog.
'It's hard to just what an animal is from just a photograph. This is an animal that's native to our area, most likely that is suffering from some type of disease,' he added.

He added that many animals with severe disease lost fur and could appear unrecognisable as a result.
Mr Cothren said he was keeping the animal so he could hand it over to the Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources for analysis.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z19OoNDBMf

Ho hum...
 
Aside from the paws and the eyes being a bit close together, it looks rather feline.

No idea what the wildlife local to that area is like, put it's hardly that crypto or supernatural, pretty generic 4 legs and a tail type mammel.
 
Look at the paw - five long fingers. Also, pointy face. I'm thinking raccoon. Poor mangy thing.
 
rynner2 said:
PeniG said:
Look at the paw - five long fingers. Also, pointy face. I'm thinking raccoon. Poor mangy thing.
I think Peni's right - the ears are also raccoon-like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Racco ... cyon_lotor)_1.jpg

I don't think it's a mangy raccoon, or anything else actually. I think this is the bald coyote again.

They've DNA-profiled these animals that have been popping up over Texas and elsewhere and they are definitely coyotes. But bald. And with oddly disproportionate jaws, heads and ears. They do not appear to have mange. These animals seem to just be naturally bald and to have a morphology that is sufficiently different to suggest either some kind of spontaneous mutation, or (God forbid) genetic manipulation.

Fascinating. I mean, is it a rare glimpse of evolution actually in action, or something altogether nastier or weirder?
 
The paws there rule out a coyote.
compare these;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/youngphoto ... 460159322/

which are from a coyote with the photo. This site;

http://teachingsapiens.wordpress.com/20 ... hupacabra/

offers a good photo of raccoon paws and compares them with the original animal, as well as noting that it was identified as a raccoon at the scene by an animal control officer.

Also the Liousville News reports the animal was conclusively identified as a Raccoon by the Kentucky department of fish and wildlife.

http://www.wlky.com/news/26354413/detail.html

They've DNA-profiled these animals that have been popping up over Texas and elsewhere and they are definitely coyotes. But bald. And with oddly disproportionate jaws, heads and ears. They do not appear to have mange.

I'd be interested to know who it is whose saying this. Can you provide some links.
 
oldrover said:
The paws there rule out a coyote.
compare these;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/youngphoto ... 460159322/

which are from a coyote with the photo. This site;

http://teachingsapiens.wordpress.com/20 ... hupacabra/

offers a good photo of raccoon paws and compares them with the original animal, as well as noting that it was identified as a raccoon at the scene by an animal control officer.

Also the Liousville News reports the animal was conclusively identified as a Raccoon by the Kentucky department of fish and wildlife.


http://www.wlky.com/news/26354413/detail.html

They've DNA-profiled these animals that have been popping up over Texas and elsewhere and they are definitely coyotes. But bald. And with oddly disproportionate jaws, heads and ears. They do not appear to have mange.

I'd be interested to know who it is whose saying this. Can you provide some links.


I'm not a naturalist or a comparative anatomist, but I do remember that the atypical paw was one of the things that was so odd about these 'coyotes'. Maybe the one you are talking about really was a raccoon, but it does look very very similar to these animals that have been popping up for some years now, and which have been variously dismissed in the beginning as mangy dogs/coyotes and raccoons. As I understand it, this was a diagnosis that made sense in the beginning but it seems like too many samples have been found now, which seem to be too consistent to be random malformations or disease.

There was a lengthy documentary on UK tv a few months back, in which a number of carcasses were examined and one was autopsied and DNA analysis was done, showing them to be most closely linked to coyotes.

I can't remember the name of the doc, but if you do some digging on the web the info is there. Search for 'bald coyotes Texas' or spme such, and ignore all the chupacabra rubbish, which is just tending to confuse and obscure what looks to be a quite genuine curiosity.

Here's a link about the DNA testing

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7076192.stm

It may be mange causing the baldness of course, but the creatures are so consistent in their 'deformity' - bald, gray-skinned, odd paws, large ears, and a jaw with a weird under-bite - it's very hard to explain except by some form of genetic mutation so far as I can see.
 
More pictures of a mangy Coyote I am afraid... :(

Chupacabra Roaming In Lake Jackson?

Jack Crabtree said he and a friend spotted the strange looking creature outside his Lake Jackson home on July 4.

"He said, 'That's the strangest dog I've ever seen,'" Crabtree said. "I immediately said, 'That's not a dog, it's a chupacabra.'"

Crabtree said he's heard of the chupacabra as a mysterious creature with a scary look.

The word "chupacabra" means "goat blood sucker" in Spanish. It was given that name for its reported habit of attacking and sucking the blood of livestock, mainly goats.

Crabtree said what he saw was ugly, skinny and gray. etc etc

Pictures at link

http://www.click2houston.com/news/28514536/detail.html
 
More pictures of a mangy Coyote I am afraid... :(

Chupacabra Roaming In Lake Jackson?

Jack Crabtree said he and a friend spotted the strange looking creature outside his Lake Jackson home on July 4.

"He said, 'That's the strangest dog I've ever seen,'" Crabtree said. "I immediately said, 'That's not a dog, it's a chupacabra.'"

Crabtree said he's heard of the chupacabra as a mysterious creature with a scary look.

The word "chupacabra" means "goat blood sucker" in Spanish. It was given that name for its reported habit of attacking and sucking the blood of livestock, mainly goats.

Crabtree said what he saw was ugly, skinny and gray. etc etc

Pictures at link

http://www.click2houston.com/news/28514536/detail.html
 
I couldn't watch it because already the first image shows a very poorly dog and I feel sorry for it. How anyone can be so stupid and not see this is beyond me. Poor thing.
 
The thing is mangy, or hairless as some people call them, coyote's, are now starting to be peddled as cryptids as well.

It seems to me that some people are just determined to have monsters living in their back gardens.
 
oldrover said:
The thing is mangy, or hairless as some people call them, coyote's, are now starting to be peddled as cryptids as well.

It seems to me that some people are just determined to have monsters living in their back gardens.

No, with respect, I think the situation is suffering from too many conclusions being leaped to without enough cool examining of the facts. ;) As I mentioned above, a couple of these animals have been DNA profiled and they are closely linked to coyotes, but also sufficiently different to imply something unusual.

1. Their hairlessness doesn't seem to be mange-related; their skin shows no signs of being infected, inflamed or scabrous. They just seem to be bald.

2. their ears are larger than 'normal' coyotes.

3. their jaws show a marked underbite.

4. Their paws are somewhat different in shape.

What makes it so curious is that so many examples have been trapped/shot/run over now, all bearing the same morphology. Enough to say something a bit weird is up. No, it's not a chupacabra. But it's not mange either.

We should be watching with interest, not dismissing prematurely, or frothing about monsters :lol:
 
OK, I promise to cut the froth.

Followed your link before to the BBC DNA article and it says they're virtually identical, which I don't quite know how to take to be honest. It comes down to the way it's reported, the headline says 'Tests end Texan goat-sucker stir', if they were reporting a significant result you'd expect something like 'Tests show significant deviation from expected sequence'. What does virtually mean here. Come to that what do they mean by the coyote, a particular coyote or an average sample of them. Are all coyotes absolutely identical genetically, with their ability to interbreed with feral dogs or wolves? I don't know, they don't make it clear.

As for the other points about ear size, paw difference etc, I can't find anything on this and I have looked, can you suggest somewhere.

As you say if there are a lot of these things turning up now it does mean something is up. And yes it is worth looking at, but I still think if it ever does get resolved it's going to turn out to be an outbreak of mange, or some other disease.
 
I'll stick it here as Chupacabra pops up as a description.

But what is it? Albino badger?

SOURCE - KSAX / ABC News

Mystery Roadkill Prompts DNR Investigation

Alexandria, Minn. (KSAX) - Minnesota Department of Natural Resources officials have been unable to identify a mystery carcass found in Douglas County with certainty, prompting further investigation..

The dead white mammal was spotted this week on a Douglas County road with five claws, dark tufts of hair on its back and head and long toenails.

Roadkill is nothing new for Minnesotans, but this curious creature got people talking.

Lacey Ilse said she was driving near her home on County Road 86, south of Alexandria, when she spotted the mysterious mammal.

"We saw something in the middle of the road, and we knew it wasn't a dog or a cat, because it didn't have hair. It had a clump of hair and all the rest was just white skin," Ilse said."it's ear was all mis-shaped. To me, it looked like half-human."

Ilse said she soon posted pictures of the animal on Facebook, and rumors and speculation took off.

"It just shot out like wildfire. everybody was putting it on their Facebook pages. And then, their friends were putting it on their pages," she said.

Noelle Jones sent the pictures to KSAX Monday, and after posting them on the KSAX Facebook page that night, more than 175 comments have been posted about the unusual animal, with guesses ranging from a skunk, badger, wolverine, wolf, or even proof of the mythical chupacabra.

Folks in Alexandria Wednesday had their own ideas.

"First guess was a badger with like, a case of mange. But then, some other people were saying, like a chupacabra. and after looking at some pictures, I was like, 'you know, it's possible," Jones said.

"It kinda looks like a 10-year-old wolf," Austin Becker of Alexandria said.

"Almost looks like a pig, with paws? I don't know, or a wolf," Kaitlin Van Horn of Morris said.

Glenwood DNR Area Wildlife Supervisor Kevin Kotts used the process of elimination to give his answer.

"It's got five long front claws on each of its front feet, which would be characteristic of a badger," Kotts said. "I ran the pictures past a few other DNR folks that have a lot of trapping and/or fur-bare experience, and they all said, it's hard to be 100 percent sure what it is ... but if it's a Minnesota animal, it's probably a badger."

But Ilse, and just about everyone else who has seen it, can't be so sure.

"If you're looking at the top half, it definitely looks like a dog that's kind of been torn apart. But, I'm not sure what to make of the back part," Igor Simanovich of the Twin Cities said.

"It's a strange animal and i hope we don't have anymore around here," Jane Murphy of Alexandria said.

"You know how they do their government secret testing on animals? and I know it sounds crazy, but I've never seen an animal like this," Ilse said

Jason Abraham, with the Department of Natural Resources, said he thinks it may be a domestic dog, but he is still left with questions.

"The head suggests a canine, very likely a domestic dog," Abraham said. "However, the right front foot appears to have five toes, which is not typical for canines. Also, the long toenails are not typical for an active canine."

Ilse said some of her guinea hens and cats are missing and suspects the animal or others in the area may be to blame. Several burrowed holes ranging from four to ten inches in size were also spotted near where the animal was found.

Ilse said Kotts was able to check the creature out Wednesday afternoon and said it's similar to a badger but has a much longer tail than usual, and took the carcass in for further testing.

There's video of the carcass on the site as well.
 
In my expert opinion *cough cough* I reckon American badger. There's just something about the shape of the head and the body, plus those long claws that makes me think of a mustelid or something like it. I don't know about albinism and whether a badger can be partly albino (since it does have those dark bits of fur on its back and head) but maybe it's a colouring mutation? Does it say anywhere how big it was? I can't find anything.

This is the bit that got me:
"To me it looked like half-human"
:shock:
What the hell kind of people live in her town?
 
Mangy fox. Certainly walks like a fox. How any old hairless canine ends up being labelled as a bloodsucking shapeshifting defeats me.
 
1. Their hairlessness doesn't seem to be mange-related; their skin shows no signs of being infected, inflamed or scabrous. They just seem to be bald.
2. their ears are larger than 'normal' coyotes.
3. their jaws show a marked underbite.
4. Their paws are somewhat different in shape.

Also

There was a lengthy documentary on UK tv a few months back, in which a number of carcasses were examined and one was autopsied and DNA analysis was done, showing them to be most closely linked to coyotes.

Could the programme have been on National Geographic? At any rate there is one and it deals with all the points raised above.

Firstly, it must be said that the locals and the Cryptozoologist featured on the programme didn't agree with the conclusions reached by the anatomical or DNA analysis. Though I have to admit personally I've no idea why.

1) The conclusion of the cryptozoologist who examined a carcass which had been run over, did say that he didn't think the hair loss was due to mange. The thing is it made no mention that I saw that he had any knowledge base to make that claim from, but I strongly suspect he didn't. The biologist who undertook the DNA analysis stated that although it was possible that the hairlessness was caused by a genetic mutation, he believed disease was a more likely explanation.

2) This is a personal observation, but to me it was very obvious that the ears are not larger than normal coyote that's an illusion created by their hairlessness.

3) The carcass did show a marked under bite, but this is not unusual in canids and the mandible length of the carcass was measured and found to be 'well within the normal range'.

4) Anatomical examination of the paws showed them to be normal for a coyote. Though what was unusual was the claws being longer than would be expected.

Further the DNA analysis showed that it was a coyote with some evidence of a history of cross breeding with other local wild canids such as the mexican wolf. the animal examined wasn't a '100% coyote, but was typical of the animals from the area'. From that by the way the narrator described it as a coyote wolf hybrid, which it was technically but then so are all the rest, for that reason I'd say the description was misleading, it would have been more accurate to call it a coyote with some evidence of interbreeding with wolves which is characteristic of the local coyote population, therefore completely normal.

About the hairlessness; the witnesses said that these bald animals were less wary of human activity and that an unusual number had been hit by cars. Take this in connection with the longer claws, as claws would normally be worn down by activity, excessive length would indicate a less active animal. To me a these two features of the hairless coyotes suggest disease. If not mange then possibly something like Distemper. Hair loss, neurological disturbance (which I think could equate to the number hit by cars and their general unreactiveness to human threat) are characteristic of the disease. Another characteristic is a thickening of the foot pad. Also Distemper is an endemic problem in Texas' coyote population;

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3505937

I'm not a vet so I'm just speculating.
 
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