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Constitution suspended

This goes to show just how dumb people are. Apart from a few pockets of resistance, america is gladly giving up its freedom in order to save its... er.. freedom.
 
The American constitution hasn't really worked since 1941 (Pearl Harbour and all that) and the emergency powers granted by the Senate. The new acts just curtail things even more. I recommend taking a look at Michael Moore's site (http://www.michaelmoore.com) and the BIC lighter. Very amusing, but only if you're not a US citizen :)

8¬)
 
Peewee said:
....and they will believe that others are jealous of their life style and thats why they are hated so much, not for the countless lives that are taken away each day because their country has funded terrorism and helped put dictators in power in far off countries.

Very wise point. The first thing George Bush did after 9/11 was to stand up and lie to the world and say that the terrorists were enemies of freedom and that they hated the fact that we can talk freely, meet freely and dissagree freely. Oh! So now we have to believe America when we need do know why the terrorists did this. BL can't tell his side of the argument however as Georgie has told the news networks not to play any messages from BL becuase.... they may contain codes. This is an information war and thats the most dumbest excuse I have ever seen! Even Al Quida thought it ridiculous saying that if they wanted to get info out to their people theyve got plenty of ways... why would they want to transmit their coded messages to America where someone there could easily decode them as well? I cant believe people are buying this crap.

I wonder.... if the terrorists hated freedom then why didnt they attack the very symbol of freedom... the statue of liberty? Why did they instead attack the symbols of Americas econimal dominance (WTC) and its military dominance (the pentagon)?
 
It only goes downhill from here.

I especially liked this bit:
Libraries across the nation were reluctant to discuss their dealings with the FBI. The same law that makes the searches legal also makes it a criminal offense for librarians to reveal the details or extent.
Now nowhere is safe!

"The Patriot Act" huh? Gosh I'm glad I'm not an American ;)

Niles "Not a Patriot either" Calder
 
Matbe the Feds are too busy killing micro-biologists who borrowed 'Spreading Anthrax for Fun and Profit' to be bothered by you Peewee, old thing :D

8¬)
 
Say what you like about Stalin, but at least he gave the 'enemy of the people' the opportunity of a show trial.
God knows what will happen to the thousands of suspects in legal limbo since 9/11?
Technically I could visit the US, get arrested for jaywalking, get racially profiled as a possible Al-Quadia member, be held as a 'combatant of the United States', and then get judged and executed by a secret militray tribunial, and nobody would ever have to find out.
As my old mate Fydor Dostoevsky said:- the mark of a civilzation is how they treat their prisoners.
 
I think that US Gov have a problem giving 'show trials' the right PR spin when they are basically a witch hunt... and even when they have a case, like in the trial of Oliver 'Mr Memory' North, they still can't come out looking good

ah well

8¬)
 
Technically I could visit the US, get arrested for jaywalking, get racially profiled as a possible Al-Quadia member, be held as a 'combatant of the United States', and then get judged and executed by a secret militray tribunial, and nobody would ever have to find out.

Bloody hell! Have you ever considered writing scripts? That was an excellent synopsis. Beginning - middle - end in less than 50 words.

Obviously it would need a bit of fleshing out - and you'd have to change the setting or else it might seem anti - US.

Maybe a cliff hanger ending .... so you'd somehow get away at the last moment and save the trapped children and your marriage.
 
I was planning to smuggle a tape out for use in 'Holiday in Hell ' ' well Anne, I spent eighteen months in Camp X-Ray and it certainly wasn't like it was in the broucher
 
Have you ever noticed how the suspects are never, say, I don't know...normal people? If the government's holding suspects, it's because they're (duh) suspects. It's not like they're just out to get anyone that irritates them; of course, if they did, watch out Adam and Peewee! You guys pose a real threat to the status quo with your insight into fake moonwalks and such, and I'm sure you're on the CIA's hit list now. You've revealed far too much truth at this point to go on living. :rolleyes:

Whatever you do, just watch your backs, because I'm afraid for you. Black Ops always silence people that discuss 9/11, and I just pray you haven't drawn targets on your own backs. I'll say a few Hail Marys, just in case.
 
TorgosPizza said:
It's not like they're just out to get anyone that irritates them

Then they should prove it to us and put him on trial!
 
Relax, Adam; if the guy's guilty, all will be revealed in time.

You know, driving home tonight, I thought about the US being a police state and wondered why I wasn't getting pulled over by cops and beaten every day for my "Free Leonard Peltier" bumpersticker. Surely, if they wanted to silence dissent, I'd have caught some heat by now. Of course, I really don't think Leonard's innocent; I just have it on my car to piss off my boss, whom is prejudiced against Native Americans.
 
Are you serious Torgos? Bush has no intention of putting him on trial. How on earth would we ever know the truth?

This is about covert control not overt control so I dont think you'll be done away with in the near future.
 
Originally posted by Adam Rang
Are you serious Torgos? Bush has no intention of putting him on trial. How on earth would we ever know the truth?

Adam, I assure you that he will either be tried or eventually released. Even Manson had a trial. Dahmer and Ted Bundy had a trials. This guy will be tried, as well. If he's innocent and has capable legal representation, he'll walk. If not, he's screwed, isn't he? He's guaranteed a trial by jury, and nothing can override that guarantee. Merely being a muslim is not enough to be considered an enemy of the state; not yet, at least.
 
Poor Pitiful Yank Speaks

Speaking as a poor, pitiful Yank, I must remind folks that this regime was put into place by an electoral coup that fell apart so badly that the Supreme Court had to step in and APPOINT a President, ahem. Duly elected? Representing the people's choice and will? Not even close.

And keep in mind, too, that resistance is much more common than one sees reported in the right-wing conservative owned-and-operated media.

Having lived outside USSA for extended periods twice in my life, I can attest to the fact that those inside the American box don't get much real information. All is steeply slanted propaganda. There is better material available outside the USSA box, but it, too, must be filtered and balanced.

Having traveled widely inside the box, I can also report that more people are aware, and angry, than anyone wants to admit, and that something will happen eventually to bring things to a head. What I fear and figure upon is a crackdown, likely sparked by another "terror" incident as an excuse.

That will likely come when W is pressured again politically, probably on his insider trading and profiteering. After all, he's setting himself up with tonight's speech, in which he's going to try to pose as a righteous and indignant man of principles. LOL

Can you IMAGINE?
 
Molly Ivins, Columnist, Dissenter

http://www.creators.com/opinion_show.cfm?next=2&ColumnsName=miv

by Molly Ivins
_
RELEASE: TUESDAY, JULY 2, 2002, AND THEREAFTER
AUSTIN, Texas -- Our personal trainer the president, up and running after his colonoscopy (I did not need to know about that), is trying out a new role -- Scourge of Corporate Misbehavior. This has approximately the same effect as opening the refrigerator door and finding Fidel Castro inside. Smoking a cigar. "Hard to believe" barely begins to hint at the surrealism of this development.
The Bush people are going to force us to take this nonsense seriously. I guarantee we will soon be hearing about the Pepster's long-cherished populist beliefs. Ever since the man told us he was the Father of the Texas Patients' Bill of Rights (which he first vetoed and then refused to sign), I have been resigned to the Red Queen quality of his political act. Just grab a flamingo and get ready to play croquet here.
In the interest of lending some verisimilitude to this new pose --Dubya Does Nader -- let us pass lightly over Bush's own business career, including insider dealing and the time he dumped his Harken Energy stock just before the announcement that the company was going bankrupt. In violation of SEC rules, Bush failed to report that sale to the Securities and Exchange Commission until eight months after the fact. The SEC contented itself with a warning letter but has specifically stated that Bush was "not exonerated."
And let's also pass over his six-year record as governor of Texas, an unbroken stretch of kissing corporate butt, including firing an agency head for enforcing state law against one of Bush's biggest contributors.
Instead, let us concentrate on the repairable. A few things the Pepster can do to bolster his brand-new image as a champion against corporate malfeasance. How to Pretend to Be a Populist in 10 easy steps:
-- Appoint someone to head the SEC who has not spent his career as a lawyer for accounting firms, including advising them to destroy documents in case of lawsuit. Chairman Harvey Pitt has been criticized even by The Wall Street Journal's editorial page, not a bastion of flaming liberalism, for being too easy on his old accounting clients and for having lost all credibility after his meeting with Xerox's auditor.
-- Stop the government loans to Enron, which is still manipulating Third World energy markets while applying for $125 million in taxpayer money from the Inter-American Development Bank.
-- Come out in favor the Sarbanes bill, now stuck in the Senate. It's the only serious proposal to deal with corporate chicanery -- the Republican plans are a sick joke. Call off Sen. Phil Gramm, who is working closely with the White House to block the bill. He has already done enough damage as the Senator from Enron.
-- Stop actively working with the business lobby to block the accounting reforms that would prevent Enron from happening again.
-- In order to avoid the appearance that you have been bought outright by corporate contributions, try not to make a recess appointment to the Federal Elections Commission of someone who has long sworn to oppose every effort at campaign finance reform and who is now destroying the McCain-Feingold bill.
-- As you stated in your hilarious radio address, "We must have rules and laws that restore faith in the integrity of American business." So how about reinstating the Clinton policy, which you reversed last year, against giving government contracts to corporations that have repeatedly violated federal laws?
-- Supporting the repeal of the alternative minimum tax is probably not smart when giant corporations are already paying less in taxes than the janitors who clean their floors.
-- It's not a good time to push for repeal of the estate tax to benefiting only the richest 2 percent of Americans.
-- Your proposal to relax New Source Review standards at the Environmental Protection Agency stinks: It allows dirty coal-fired power plants and the nation's other biggest polluters to operate indefinitely and to increase their pollution by massive amounts.
-- Next, do something about the other 90-odd actions taken by your administration to help polluters since January 2001, including shifting the cost of cleaning up Superfund waste sites from the polluters to the taxpayers and the recent EPA decision to reverse a 25-year-old policy that flatly forbids dumping mining and other industrial solid waste into the nation's waterways.
Your administration decided that all waters across the country are now open to industry for waste disposal. Allowing industry to increase profits at the expense of the public's health and the nation's natural heritage does not fit the "higher calling" to which you said business should aspire.
-- Ix-nay on the Republican effort to block closing the Bermuda loophole in the federal tax code. They've taken to doing things like walking out of committee meetings to keep the bill from coming up. It would clearly pass overwhelmingly if it got to the floor. Time to call the boys in for a chat.
To find out more about Molly Ivins and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate web page at http://www.creators.com.
COPYRIGHT 2002 CREATORS SYNDICATE, INC.
 
Re: Molly Ivins, Columnist, Dissenter

FraterLibre said:
-- Next, do something about the other 90-odd actions taken by your administration to help polluters since January 2001, including shifting the cost of cleaning up Superfund waste sites from the polluters to the taxpayers and the recent EPA decision to reverse a 25-year-old policy that flatly forbids dumping mining and other industrial solid waste into the nation's waterways.
Your administration decided that all waters across the country are now open to industry for waste disposal. Allowing industry to increase profits at the expense of the public's health and the nation's natural heritage does not fit the "higher calling" to which you said business should aspire.
Oh dear! And there was me saying (on another thread) that industry has been cleaning up its act in response to environmental concerns.

As for the rest, well I never liked Dubya much from the start, so I'm glad to hear he's getting some opposition over there. Keep up the good work, Fraterlibre!
 
Originally posted by Adam Rang
Torgos, did you not read these articles?

Sorry about not responding earlier on these, Adam. Thankfully, rynner posted on this thread and bumped it back up to he top.

I think they'll have to let the guy go or charge him, sooner or later. Like the second article stated, they eventually released the cabbie, so they'll do the same here. It might be unfair at the moment; however, I'm thinking he'll cash in with an NBC movie of the week starring Jimmy Smits, painting him as a loyal American and faithful Muslim, betrayed by a bigoted government. His criminal past will be glossed over as something his conversion to Islam delivered him from. I predict big money in his future (through civil cases concerning unlawful imprisonment and false arrest [if found Not Guilty, which is doubtful] or story rights from the entertainment industry), and I'd give up a few months of liberty myself, if I'd strike it rich afterwards.

If they can prove he's guilty of conspiring with an enemy, he should be executed; yet, if they find questionable proof (or none at all), they should release him and clear his past record, to make up for the indignity he's going through.

Personally, I'd still want to keep an eye on him, regardless of the findings. After all, how often do innocent people associate with terrorists? It happens every day, I'm sure; yet, I think it deserves scrutiny.
 
Not sure exactly where to post this story, but I guess it's a conspiracy of some kind, so one of these threads should be OK:

According to this BBC news story, a group of lawyers are starting an action against vice-pres. Dick Cheney for falsely inflating share prices when he worked for the Halliburton oil company.

But the webpage does not include the detail that I heard on the radio earlier, that the group has a tape or video of Cheney praising the accountants for activities beyond the call of duty (or words to that effect) - and, yes, the accountants were the same lot implicated in the Enron affair....

Will this one fly? I gather Bush's speech on corporate fraud rather underwhelmed most people, so he won't like this in his backyard. Mind you, the SEC investigated good ol' Dubya for something similar once, and all he got was a slap on the wrist (and not a 10 year jail term...).

The UK ain't perfect (as someone said, look at the weather this summer) but we do at least send the odd politician to jail for telling fibs - pour encourager les autres.
 
Political Pressure = Terrorist Attacks

Oh great. If they pressure Cheney too much we're bound to see another round of "terrorism" to distract us from things while they scramble to pass new retroactive laws to cover their asses.

Already this regime has blocked any and all Freedom of Information Act access to Presidential papers and so on. The W regime is all about secrecy and doing what it wants how it wants, without accountability.

There are so many outright criminals in the administration that we'd need to send dozens to jail, and should. But don't hold any breath. It's unlikely more than a few underlings will be jailed. They'll throw a few nobodies to the wolves if they have to, but the big bastards will, as usual, skate.

As Gore Vidal has observed, this administration will be the most reviled and criminal in history before too long, so scoff while you can.
 
a question to our American friends - how did you feel about Clinton's Administration?
 
chatsubo said:
a question to our American friends - how did you feel about Clinton's Administration?

Ambivalent, but generally positive, chats. He oversaw an amazing economy (probably setting us up for this recent spate of hubris and greed--d'oh!), didn't f**k up foreign policy too bad--I mean, perhaps other countries actually felt valued and included for once--and generally had some original and positive thoughts in his head.

However, he also allowed more corporate mergers to take place than anybody else, putting him squarely in the pocket of the corporations. And (despite my belief that one's sexual tendencies are nobody's business), it's hard to defend a President who was getting blow jobs in the Oval Office.

That was tacky, adolescent and disrespectful. For all that, I never felt the way I feel now; that the most sacred principles of our republic are being dismantled, and we've been thoroughly sold out.
 
Originally posted by chatsubo
a question to our American friends - how did you feel about Clinton's Administration?

The economy was already on the upswing while George Sr. was still in office, so I only credit Clinton with maintaining the recovery. I don't care for Clinton, then or now; yet, I don't blame him at all for his behavior in the Oval Office. Why not? Because the American people knew exactly what he was all about before he was ever elected. I remember before he was first elected, I kept hearing "We need change" repeated like a mantra, so I'd ask people, "Okay, but change in what way?" The answer? "We need change," repeated as rote as if they were programmed. It was spooky, the lack of actual critical thinking.

The best thing I can say about Clinton's administration is that he screwed things up a great deal less than I thought he would. I thought he'd run our culture into the ground and tax us severely, to the point it would damage the Democrats' image beyond repair; yet, for the most part, he just gave us more of the same. I will say the fact he ever got elected based on prior knowledge we had on him tarnished my repect for the electorate. It underscored the fact we are jaded and idealism has no place within us any longer. "Complete lack of character? No biggie. I really have to ask myself the important question: how will he benefit me?"
 
Bunkered

Minor Drag's remarks about peg mine to the Clinton Administration. It's regrettable that he squandered any chance of historical validity for a few cheap thrills, too.

The psychotic blaming of Clinton for everything merely reveals how hollow any partisan emotionality renders things. Public discourse is a jingoist's shouting match these days, and rational analysis scoffed at and discarded.

One doubts any president makes much difference, except in the puppeteers backing each one. A different mix of controllers and influencers would have gotten in, had there not been an electoral coup, and although I'm sure the billionaires would have remained relatively sleek and purring, we'd not be on so steep a slide toward fascism and tyranny.

See you in the bunker.
 
Re: Bunkered

FraterLibre said:
Public discourse is a jingoist's shouting match these days, and rational analysis scoffed at and discarded.

Too, too true. I've already barked about the Attorney General's hijacking the language of the Constitution to brand dissent as essentially treason.

Now it seems the guiding principle for both sides is "win at any cost."
 
Pay Offs

Now it seems the guiding principle for both sides is "win at any cost."

The politics of expediency, yes. End justifies means and the meanest act is justified as long as there is profit in it. It's the short-term profit mentality brought to fruition.
 
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