Credibility In Ufology: Fact Or Fiction?

[THA]

I had no opportunity to correct what were inevitable misinterpretations. Or things I knew then that I was not at liberty to say.

My point in posting that quote was actually to demonstrate that the 'plasma' hypothesis doesn't work. (Rodney Ashby BTW applied the same argument to Meaden's desperate theorizing re: complex crop patterns. His website detailing this seems to have vanished.)

A propos the alleged misinterpretations: did you make any attempt to correct these e.g. by writing to FT? And why were they 'inevitable'? And what difference would things you weren't 'at liberty to say' at the time have made to the overall drift of the piece? (Which seems entirely plausible to me, particularly given AG's previous odd psychological experiences.)

As I recall, by the way, the article also suggested that a horsebox may have been the vehicle involved. If so (and it doesn't strike me as impossible) then the whole bus timetable problem canters away.

 

[Roland Deschain]

Plasma is no better an explanation than anything else, and indeed requires staggering levels of power, I don't think it's ever been replicated to that extent by high power experiments.
Also witnesses have to be effected by sufficiently stable electronic fields long enough to hallucinate a coherent 'thing'. Convenient isn't it.
One load of supposition being offered for another.

 

[humanoidlord]

As for the Man from the Ministry being 'some random UFO enthusiast' you need to read Alan's book as you will quickly see how misguided that hasty suggestion is.

For a start he interviewed Alan at the police station alongside Alan's superior officer. No UFO buff could have got through security to do that pretending to be from the MoD.

In fact elsewhere in the book Alan describes a time when he arrested a senior officer because he had no proof of identity that he had deliberately not brought in order to test station security.

The man was aware of and discussed with him the Rendlesham Forest case that at that point was not public knowledge. Had the MoD report into Alan's case in his possession - which has not been released as yet. And was aware of the letters Alan was getting from a Moscow scientist.

He also made Alan re-sign the Official Secrets Act. And was present on subsequent occasions when Alan was at police headquarters being assessed by doctors.

Who ever this was took a lot of interest in this case and seems to have been a key factor in the appalling way Alan was treated by the police until they got rid of him.

This was anything but a routine follow up.

He also knew what I was doing at the time and made that clear to Alan as part of threats that he should cease cooperation. An apparent attempt to frighten him away from working with me on The Pennine UFO Mystery.

I kept a lot of these things out of that book to protect Alan and his family and my cousin's (I was involved with this case so early as Alan's sergeant who blew the whistle on the way he was treated was married to my cousin). Given the awful lengths they went to in order to try to discredit Alan - the book explains in detail - this was something I had to do as Alan was pretty scared that someone, somewhere might take this out on his kids.

And my cousin and her husband had a seriously ill young daughter so I waited until Alan wanted to get this part out and it was possible to say these things without compromising my cousin's family. I still had to get her permission first. Her husband died a year or two ago and Alan helped give a guard of honour to the coffin at the funeral.


This went WAY beyond the MoD just being routinely following up the sighting.

have you ever thought how supiciously similar is alan's story to the cash-lamdrum case?
top shaped ufo, damaged road, serious effects on the witness, etc

 

[humanoidlord]

I do not regard UAP as another synonym for UFO.

UFO describes every sighting prior to investigation in my eyes. If it gets explained in one of the known ways that it can do it becomes an IFO.

The unexplained cases remain UFOs.

However, that term is loaded with associations developed over the year and UFO and spaceship have long been almost the same thing in many people's eyes unfamiliar with the subject.

I don't know exactly when UAP was introduced in UK Ufology but it was before the MoD adopted it in the 1990s. They seem to have had similar logic in preferring it.

Paul Devereux used it in books around the same time I did (early 1980s) though in a slightly different context. He referred to Aerial whilst I have always used Atmospheric as the A in these three letters. Though Condign used Aerial too and implies an earlier USAF usage.

The reason for my choice of atmospheric instead of aerial should be apparent from what I said above.

Aerial still leaves open the prospect of a craft and indeed almost infers it by more common usage of the term. So it is really just another word for UFO which my use of UAP never was. I use the two terms quite specifically.

UAP - as in atmospheric - for cases which I fervently believe do exist that are triggered by fringe scientific phenomena on the edge of atmospheric physics - so to include things like unexplained fireball events (eg the one in November 1957 that changed the colour of paintwork on a ship), super ball lightning and potentially other things such as Meaden's plasma vortex.

UFO would then remain for cases that are still unresolved and where it remains possible that some kind of intelligence is involved.

Thus separating out the cases that I am 100% sure are caused by natural phenomena that we do not yet fully understand and anything else that might be unresolved but is genuinely a UFO in the sense that most people perceive that term - an apparent intelligently controlled object of unknown design and origin.

I am very sure that at heart the 'UFO Mystery' is a conflation of at least three quite different things:

IFOs - the vast majority of cases - simple and more complex misperceptions.

UAP - natural physical phenomena mostly tied to our atmosphere that offer potential of new scientific knowledge

UFOs - the 1% or so of cases left over that defy explanation by the other two and that imply an intelligence or craft is involved - but may well, of course, have other possible resolutions - many of which I have looked at in my FT columns.

I just find it helpful to clearly delineate like this because I believe the evidence allows us to conclude that these three distinct groups of 'UFOs' exist.

I also find that each of the three categories teaches us things and should be studied. But it becomes unhelpful to do that without being aware that we are really looking at three groups of different phenomena with entirely different sets of causes and potential causes. Linked only by the social construct built around the idea that they are all UFOs. And the psycho-social factors that then confuse any research unaware of the differences origin.

Which is why I personally do not use UAP in a looser sense. It removes the point of using it.

jenny you will be interested in this site : http://www.ball-lightning.info/Ball-lightning/Ball_lightning.html

 

[Analis]

As for those commenting on the non relevance of plasma. I am not sufficiently grounded in physics to argue.

I have to stand with eburacum on this one. The plasma theory as explanation for many UFO sightings bumps on the fact that plasma is basically unstable, so that any plasma 'ball' forming in a natural environment will dissipate in a matter of tenths of seconds, and will live only a fugitive life. Every attempt to replicate ball lightning or similar plasma formations, even in conditions of stability that can not achieved in nature, have failed. The only stable plasma in our environment is the Sun. Meaden's theories have had no follow-up, nor has the Condign report attracted any interest from scientists, as they basically violate natural laws.
UAP as unidentified natural phenomena are a dead end. The only UAP to have been identified were the high altitude sprites and red devils, which are in some cases huge plasma formations, but are nonetheless extremely fugitive.

If anything, plasma were used to obfuscate the possible exotic origin of some UFOs by the military, not the other way around.

 

[Coal]

If anything, plasma were used to obfuscate the possible exotic origin of some UFOs by the military, not the other way around.

If plasma was floating about the fusion team at Culham would be following the bloody stuff (at a safe distance) to figure out how to do it themselves.

 

[INT21]

Humanoidlord,

have you ever thought how supiciously similar is alan's story to the cash-lamdrum case?
top shaped ufo, damaged road, serious effects on the witness, etc

Can you tell us where,as in the Cash -Landrum account, witnesses saw some escorting' helicopters, and some witnesses were subject to radiation burns ?

INT21

 

[humanoidlord]

Humanoidlord,

have you ever thought how supiciously similar is alan's story to the cash-lamdrum case?
top shaped ufo, damaged road, serious effects on the witness, etc

Can you tell us where,as in the Cash -Landrum account, witnesses saw some escorting' helicopters, and some witnesses were subject to radiation burns ?

INT21

what about the shape of the ufo and the location?

 

[eburacum]

Todmorden?

 

[dr wu]

Regarding similarity...I really don't see much between the two cases mentioned above.
Other than them both being near roads which is not all that unusual to begin with and many ufo shapes have been described as top like over the years....where's the similarity?

 

[INT21]

...what about the shape of the ufo and the location?..

The Cash-Landrum object was described as a fiery cone-shaped device that was giving out bursts of flame from a position some distance above the road. Rising and falling with the flames.

Also both Cash and Landrum described the heat coming from it. This heat appears to have been of a nature containing a radiation element sufficient to cause damage to them.

Non of the above applies to PC Godfrey.

And the Godfrey affair was in a small valley town in West Yorkshire, on a well traveled public highway close to houses.
Cash-Landrum was, if I remember correctly, in a remote section of highway passing through a forested area in Texas.

INT21.

 

[Jayceedove]

My point in posting that quote was actually to demonstrate that the 'plasma' hypothesis doesn't work. (Rodney Ashby BTW applied the same argument to Meaden's desperate theorizing re: complex crop patterns. His website detailing this seems to have vanished.)

A propos the alleged misinterpretations: did you make any attempt to correct these e.g. by writing to FT? And why were they 'inevitable'? And what difference would things you weren't 'at liberty to say' at the time have made to the overall drift of the piece? (Which seems entirely plausible to me, particularly given AG's previous odd psychological experiences.)

As I recall, by the way, the article also suggested that a horsebox may have been the vehicle involved. If so (and it doesn't strike me as impossible) then the whole bus timetable problem canters away.

Yes, I did write and I think FT printed something of what I said I was only peeved that what I thought was a private e mail discussion of the case was turned into an article by others involved in that debate without even telling me up front.

It was no big deal and not the cause of any fall out.

They were inevitable because the authors were able to elaborate on points made in a long cross communication of e mails never intended as the basis for a public article. I was just quoted from them with no such opportunity to clarify. Or to point out there were things I knew I was not then at liberty to say.

They would have made a difference because I knew about the medical assessments of him and the MoD investigation into him and the way they made him resign the Official Secrets Act.

I certainly took Meaden to task over his mistake in trying to elaborate his theory to resolve the complex circles instead of realise they were hoaxes and that any weather induced vortex was only ever going to create a few small simple circles. He eventually realised that.

I have no recall of any horsebox being linked to the case. Or how it would explain the physical effects.

It was myself who first raised the issue of Alan's previous 'lapses' as it is a pattern in many close encounter witnesses as I have written of in my columns. It is clearly relevant to his 'time lapse' as I have long argued.

As for it could not be a plasma - the vortex itself - regardless of its exact physical make up - is surely the key here ad it is a physically real phenomenon leaving physically real effects on site (seen and felt) and for which at least three people witnessed part of this. So it is for me the key to the case as it is the one thing we have strong evidence was really there.

You can argue about the exact nature of what it was or whether plasma had anything to do with it but in my opinion we have good reason to accept it was there and the rest of the case has to be made to fall into place around it.

I would have thought that if a horse box (with horses in it?) was caught in that vortex in the way Alan's panda car and Bob's Metro bus was that the horses might have made some noise Alan would have heard.

 

[humanoidlord]

he

Yes, I did write and I think FT printed something of what I said I was only peeved that what I thought was a private e mail discussion of the case was turned into an article by others involved in that debate without even telling me up front.

It was no big deal and not the cause of any fall out.

They were inevitable because the authors were able to elaborate on points made in a long cross communication of e mails never intended as the basis for a public article. I was just quoted from them with no such opportunity to clarify. Or to point out there were things I knew I was not then at liberty to say.

They would have made a difference because I knew about the medical assessments of him and the MoD investigation into him and the way they made him resign the Official Secrets Act.

I certainly took Meaden to task over his mistake in trying to elaborate his theory to resolve the complex circles instead of realise they were hoaxes and that any weather induced vortex was only ever going to create a few small simple circles. He eventually realised that.

I have no recall of any horsebox being linked to the case. Or how it would explain the physical effects.

It was myself who first raised the issue of Alan's previous 'lapses' as it is a pattern in many close encounter witnesses as I have written of in my columns. It is clearly relevant to his 'time lapse' as I have long argued.

As for it could not be a plasma - the vortex itself - regardless of its exact physical make up - is surely the key here ad it is a physically real phenomenon leaving physically real effects on site (seen and felt) and for which at least three people witnessed part of this. So it is for me the key to the case as it is the one thing we have strong evidence was really there.

You can argue about the exact nature of what it was or whether plasma had anything to do with it but in my opinion we have good reason to accept it was there and the rest of the case has to be made to fall into place around it.

I would have thought that if a horse box (with horses in it?) was caught in that vortex in the way Alan's panda car and Bob's Metro bus was that the horses might have made some noise Alan would have heard.

hey did you see my questions above?

 

[Jayceedove]

have you ever thought how supiciously similar is alan's story to the cash-lamdrum case?
top shaped ufo, damaged road, serious effects on the witness, etc

I had not directly connected them - no.
I can see what you mean, there is a little similarity, but there are several other cases with even more or the same level of similarities too.
Though Cash Landrum is close in time I guess.

 

[humanoidlord]

I had not directly connected them - no.
I can see what you mean, there is a little similarity, but there are several other cases with even more or the same level of similarities too.
Though Cash Landrum is close in time I guess.

oh yes there is time (1980 to 1986)
also similar cases?

 

[Jayceedove]

Cash Landrum was the same week as Rendlesham (29 Dec 1980) so just 4 weeks after Alan's case 0n 29 November1980. Given the MoD seemed to be connecting Alan's case with Rendlesham - or at least interested in why the Russians were writing to Alan and seemed to be doing so - I guess that is a sort of connection.

There are obvious differences (Tod to Cash Landrum) as pointed out in posts above.

Dot Street and I met some of those involved in Cash Landrum when we visited the States in 1983 researching our book Sky Crash on Rendlesham. It is a fascinating case and we wrote about the connections in that book which are more notable than with Alan's case I think.

Intriguingly there was a pretty good case in Cheshire on 29 December 1980 that made me sit up and wonder about a connection at the time - though only because it happened near a village called Warren - the first airmen who came forward claiming to be involved in Rendlesham.

The links between synchronicity and UFOs are something I have always been intrigued by.

As you might recall from the stunning one that happened to me in 1983 connecting these two things that is one of the oddest things I have ever been involved in.

I assume you know the event I mean. If not I am happy to repeat it here.

And, by coincidence, right now (what else) I am talking to another very famous UFO witness who came to me about a synchronicity. Which for now is all I can say on that.

 

[humanoidlord]

Cash Landrum was the same week as Rendlesham (29 Dec 1980) so just 4 weeks after Alan's case 0n 29 November1980. Given the MoD seemed to be connecting Alan's case with Rendlesham - or at least interested in why the Russians were writing to Alan and seemed to be doing so - I guess that is a sort of connection.

wait i always thoght godfrey's abduction happened in 1986! guess i was wrong
this makes things even more interesting
three cases with interesting synchronicities linking them, very weird!

 

[Jayceedove]

There was quite a wave of intriguing close encounters in November/December 1980. Three is not the half of it.

 

[hunck]

As you might recall from the stunning one that happened to me in 1983 connecting these two things that is one of the oddest things I have ever been involved in.

I assume you know the event I mean. If not I am happy to repeat it here.

Can you repeat it please?

 

[humanoidlord]

There was quite a wave of intriguing close encounters in November/December 1980. Three is not the half of it.

sorry if i am being annoying but do you have some more interesting examples? because it looks like i found something

 

[humanoidlord]

Cash Landrum was the same week as Rendlesham (29 Dec 1980) so just 4 weeks after Alan's case 0n 29 November1980. Given the MoD seemed to be connecting Alan's case with Rendlesham - or at least interested in why the Russians were writing to Alan and seemed to be doing so - I guess that is a sort of connection.

There are obvious differences (Tod to Cash Landrum) as pointed out in posts above.

Dot Street and I met some of those involved in Cash Landrum when we visited the States in 1983 researching our book Sky Crash on Rendlesham. It is a fascinating case and we wrote about the connections in that book which are more notable than with Alan's case I think.

Intriguingly there was a pretty good case in Cheshire on 29 December 1980 that made me sit up and wonder about a connection at the time - though only because it happened near a village called Warren - the first airmen who came forward claiming to be involved in Rendlesham.

The links between synchronicity and UFOs are something I have always been intrigued by.

As you might recall from the stunning one that happened to me in 1983 connecting these two things that is one of the oddest things I have ever been involved in.

I assume you know the event I mean. If not I am happy to repeat it here.

And, by coincidence, right now (what else) I am talking to another very famous UFO witness who came to me about a synchronicity. Which for now is all I can say on that.

whoa now i see your added comments about the synchronicities, very weird!
have you heard of mike clelland? he wrote an very big book on the subject and its relations to ufos some time ago.

 

[Jayceedove]

sorry if i am being annoying but do you have some more interesting examples? because it looks like i found something

Not annoying at all. Just finding the time. And I don't have easily to hand the details.

But for a start there were two other police encounters in Yorkshire that November.

In that Sep top Dec 1980 period there was for example:

A UFO seen over an oil rig in the North Sea where an RAF plane was sent to investigate.

And there was the radar tracking of Mal Scurrah then at RAF Neatishead. We don't know the actual date but he said around October/November/December 1980 when we interviewed him for Strange But True? when we were making the programme on Rendlesham.

He was monitoring some RAF Phantoms on exercise over the North Sea off Norfolk when a target at 5000 feet started climbing. He assumed it was a Phantom but once clear it wasn't a couple of the Phantoms were vectored to follow it. One pilot observed a bright light climbing upwards and they gave pursuit.

The jets had to cease pursuit as the light outstripped them and the radar recorded it going vertically from 10,000 to 90,000 feet in under 5 minutes. The jets had to give up long before that height as they could not match pace or height.

Initially Scurrah could not report the height he finally lost the target as the radar specs were then top secret. He later confirmed they lost it at over 100,000 ft still climbing near vertically and heading up towards the upper reaches of the stratosphere.

Almost no aircraft could reach that height in 1980 ( Concorde flew at 60,000 ft and the record for a military jet plane is still around 123,000 feet - though rocket planes can go higher) None could accelerate at the target's speed without killing a pilot.

 

[Jayceedove]

whoa now i see your added comments about the synchronicities, very weird!
have you heard of mike clelland? he wrote an very big book on the subject and its relations to ufos some time ago.

No, I had not but I will check it out.

 

[Jayceedove]

Can you repeat it please?

Okay.

It was 1983. I was then living in Wallasey and working at Radio City, the commercial radio station for Liverpool based just around the corner from the Cavern - the famous club where the merseybeat began and the likes of the Beatles started out in the 60s.

I had a weekly show within the show of DJ Brian Ford. Each week I talked about some kind of Fortean phenomenon of my choice and explained what it was, told some cases, theories and talked about any stories sent in from listeners.

To get these stories I always recorded a 'trail' which played on the station during the week pointing up the subject I would feature next week and asking for calls or letters.

One week I featured UFOs, of course, and my boss - in fact the boss of the station at that time - asked to come on so he could talk about his sighting. He was Gerry Marsden - Gerry of Gerry and the Pacemakers. He had seen a UFO over the Wirral.

Anyhow that next week I explained that I was going to cover synchronicity and recorded my trail calling it that.

Our producer told me I would have to re record it because Radio City was aimed at the 'young record buying public' who would never have heard of such a word. So I had to re do it and just call it coincidence.

A bit peeved over this I went home to find I had a call from Jodrell Bank. At that time they passed on UFO sightings made to them by the public so they could be followed up. It was a witness from a suburb of Liverpool who had been freaked out by a UFO sighting in the early hours. Jodrell and I agreed it sounded like a meteor but I agreed to call the witness given their distress. They told me that they had seen a bright 'star' fall out of the sky. I tried to reassure them and expected that was that.

Next day, back at the Radio City to check my calls and post the news room was agog about a story that had developed over the past 24 hours. Some youths on possibly stolen motorbikes had inexplicably ridden them into the path of a freight train. They had no idea why. But I saw immediately the time and place matched the UFO sighing and I was in a quandary. Had they seen this meteor, been distracted and missed the train? But could I say this to the police? Would they think I was after publicity for the show? And could I involve an innocent witness in a police investigation?

So I went to the studio downstairs to chat to the DJ between breaks when he had a record on and ask his advice.

Part 2....in a few minutes

 

[Jayceedove]

Part 2...

The studio had a glass screen meaning you could see the reception area and visitors there could watch DJs at work.

As I asked Brian, the DJ, whether I should call the police a uniformed officer marched into the reception. Turned out he was there to interview another of the DJs over a minor misdemeanour. Anyhow I said to Brian, I think I have my answer. And decided to call the police.

They told me my story was as good a lead as any they had and at least did not laugh. In the end they never solved the case afaik and weeks later they told me my idea could be right. But they had not gone public with it and thanked me for not doing out of deference to the boys family who might have considered it insensitive.

Anyhow, I left the studio having reminded that on my trail for next week I had pointed out that often when you talk about coincidences these happen. So I thought I should heed the cue of the officer arriving as I talked to Brian.

I did the show without using the offensive word synchronicity so as not to confuse those young record buying audience members our producer warned about.

On leaving the studio I was handed a free magazine and put it away to read on the bus from Liverpool to Wallasey. I smiled a huge smile when a read a section in it previewing the big new record releases coming up. They were predicting success for one.

It was the new album by The Police and its title and title track was - Synchronicity.

It was top of the charts for months on both sides of the Atlantic so within weeks those young record buying members of the Radio City audience were very familiar with the word I was ordered not to say on air!

That is not all though. The lyrics to the title track written by Sting (Gordon Sumner) contains the seemingly meaningless line (though pretty meaningful to me now):

A star fall, a phone call, it joins all - synchronicity.

Fair to say I had a very big smile when I first heard that played on Radio City and reminded my producer!

 

[Jayceedove]

Part 3....

There is a small postscript.

Both Gordon Sumner (Sting) and I were born in October 1951. We also both started out training as teachers.

Like him I have written some song lyrics - though not professionally. When I was in my teens I wrote lyrics for a couple of songs with my brother who was in a band in North West England. This was before I wrote anything professionally.

The group were popular in the region and did lots of work and almost turned pro. In fact my cousin went on to success in Australia where 50 years later he still lives. My brother chose to stay in the UK and marry at 19. He has never regretted it.

I had not thought about this for years until I was taken on a surprise trip to Liverpool. We actually went on a boat that was in the movie Ferry Cross The Mersey including Gerry Marsden singing - the man who was later my boss at Radio City.

In Liverpool I discovered that my brothers group for whom I had written my only ever song lyrics had been commemorated alongside the Beatles and Gerry and the Pacemakers at the Cavern being one of the groups that had performed there in that era.

This is just around the corner from where those events involving me and the Sting lyrics had occurred at Radio City 34 years ago.

 

[Mythopoeika]

How could Sting have known? Or was that another synchronicity?

 

[Jayceedove]

Obviously he couldn't. He will have written and recorded that song before the event happened as well.

Synchronicity is basically coincidence into which you read meaning and significance rather than just chance afterwards.

Sometimes they are just chance. But look weird.

The events are the props and the meaning (or any reality of synchronicity) is in the consciousness of the experiencer.

Often it is hard to tell if meaning applies or is just perceived wrongly.

Huge coincidences do sometimes happen.

The Anthony Hopkins story is another example.

He is asked to appear as lead in the movie of the novel The Girl from Petrovka. He tries to find the book to read the story but all bookshops he chooses to visit don't have one.

He goes home and at Leicester Square underground he finds a copy discarded on a bench. It has notes scrawled all over it but he takes it and takes the part.

A year or so later whilst filming on set the author bemoans losing his personal copy somewhere in London because he annotated it with notes that would help the filming.

It was of course the book the star of his film had discovered.

Just a fluke of chance?

Or were people shuffled like chess pieces to do things that resulted in the meaning later imparted onto the chain of events.

 

[humanoidlord]

Not annoying at all. Just finding the time. And I don't have easily to hand the details.

But for a start there were two other police encounters in Yorkshire that November.

In that Sep top Dec 1980 period there was for example:

A UFO seen over an oil rig in the North Sea where an RAF plane was sent to investigate.

And there was the radar tracking of Mal Scurrah then at RAF Neatishead. We don't know the actual date but he said around October/November/December 1980 when we interviewed him for Strange But True? when we were making the programme on Rendlesham.

He was monitoring some RAF Phantoms on exercise over the North Sea off Norfolk when a target at 5000 feet started climbing. He assumed it was a Phantom but once clear it wasn't a couple of the Phantoms were vectored to follow it. One pilot observed a bright light climbing upwards and they gave pursuit.

The jets had to cease pursuit as the light outstripped them and the radar recorded it going vertically from 10,000 to 90,000 feet in under 5 minutes. The jets had to give up long before that height as they could not match pace or height.

Initially Scurrah could not report the height he finally lost the target as the radar specs were then top secret. He later confirmed they lost it at over 100,000 ft still climbing near vertically and heading up towards the upper reaches of the stratosphere.

Almost no aircraft could reach that height in 1980 ( Concorde flew at 60,000 ft and the record for a military jet plane is still around 123,000 feet - though rocket planes can go higher) None could accelerate at the target's speed without killing a pilot.

Not annoying at all. Just finding the time. And I don't have easily to hand the details.

But for a start there were two other police encounters in Yorkshire that November.

In that Sep top Dec 1980 period there was for example:

A UFO seen over an oil rig in the North Sea where an RAF plane was sent to investigate.

And there was the radar tracking of Mal Scurrah then at RAF Neatishead. We don't know the actual date but he said around October/November/December 1980 when we interviewed him for Strange But True? when we were making the programme on Rendlesham.

He was monitoring some RAF Phantoms on exercise over the North Sea off Norfolk when a target at 5000 feet started climbing. He assumed it was a Phantom but once clear it wasn't a couple of the Phantoms were vectored to follow it. One pilot observed a bright light climbing upwards and they gave pursuit.

The jets had to cease pursuit as the light outstripped them and the radar recorded it going vertically from 10,000 to 90,000 feet in under 5 minutes. The jets had to give up long before that height as they could not match pace or height.

Initially Scurrah could not report the height he finally lost the target as the radar specs were then top secret. He later confirmed they lost it at over 100,000 ft still climbing near vertically and heading up towards the upper reaches of the stratosphere.

Almost no aircraft could reach that height in 1980 ( Concorde flew at 60,000 ft and the record for a military jet plane is still around 123,000 feet - though rocket planes can go higher) None could accelerate at the target's speed without killing a pilot.

with such large speed its very likely an true ufo

 

[humanoidlord]

No, I had not but I will check it out.

he is an very interesting guy, he also said he saw owls when talking about ufos or paranormal subjects for some reason