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Do Animals Avoid Former Nazi Death Camps?

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OldTimeRadio

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In her book TIME TRAVEL, Jenny Randles in writing of "the now derelict sites of former Nazi concentration camps" remarks that "[e]ven animals will not go near according to some sources."

Any documentation for this?
 
I hadn't heard of this idea when I visited Auschwitz-Birkenau a couple of years back, but I noticed it at the time.

I spent the winter in eastern Europe (and Italy and Austria) so had plenty of experience of eating outdoors, followed by hungry pigeons and sparrows!

At every other tourist stop, we'd see birds roosting all around, ready to swoop on leftovers. Not in Auschwitz though. I remarked to my mate that although there seem to be miles of cable and fence for birds to roost on, there weren't any birds - not one. Seemed very strange.

Although it was bitterly cold, there were coachloads of visitors arriving all the time and many were eating as they went along, as you do, but no birds followed them. In the trees and on the cables and fences just outside the camps there were plenty of birds.

So no, in my short experience of Auschwitz there were no birds to be seen inside the grounds, even in the hungry winter where there were picnicking tourists and even though there were plenty of birds outside. It was as if they wouldn't come in, and I noticed this at the time, having not heard (consciously anyway) of the story before.

Dunno about any other animals though.
 
Has anyone been to a battlefield site and noticed a lack of birdsong? If this is a 'morphic resonance' thing, you'd expect places like the Somme and Antietam to be as similary affected as Auschwitz.
 
It occurs to me that animals may instinctively avoid a place where a lot of death has occured, perhaps instinctively avoiding disease. The next part, that I can't answer, is why are they still avoiding it after so long...
 
I was watching a programme about The Somme the other evening. Actually, I think it was Ghosthunters. They took a Medium to the battlefield and trenches to see what he would 'find'. They mentioned then the lack of bird-song, although I would put it down to the programme makers maybe embellishing it slightly. It would be interesting to find out if it were actually the case, though.

'Imself and I plan to visit the War Graves Commission up there some time, so may take the opportunity to find out.

As for Auschwitz etc, I used to know a man who was part of the first team to enter (I think) Dachau. He was deeply affected, as you would imagine. He found the lack of bird-song deeply disturbing. He thought the whole place was imbued with evil.
 
It occurs to me that animals may instinctively avoid a place where a lot of death has occured, perhaps instinctively avoiding disease. The next part, that I can't answer, is why are they still avoiding it after so long...
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But what about carrion species like crows and ravens? Shouldn't the opposite be true for them, as they feed on dead things and are pretty much immune to diseases associated with it?

That said, at least in the case of the Nazi camps, i've no idea if a corpse that's been zyclon-B'd to death makes good eating, even for carrion animals, so maybe there could be learned behaviour there in terms of avoiding 'poisoned food'?
 
I can't think of an explanation and to be honest, would not have believed the 'no birds in Auschwitz' story if I hadn't noticed it for myself, without knowing in advance.

It is possible that I did hear or read somewhere about it beforehand, but I certainly did see no birds there, whether I unconsciously expected to or not. I didn't hallucinate, for example, as my mate agreed at the time that there were no birds.

She is a good witness too as she is terrified of pigeons and knows the whereabouts of every bird within half a mile. :D
 
I think there are other experiences mentioned on the various "spirit of place" threads as well.

I don't know that carrion birds would be interested in the Auschwitz corpses, as I don't recall the bodies being left out where birds could get at them; weren't they burned or buried?
 
Yup, cremated mainly. :(

I was photographed bending over, looking into one of the ruined gas chambers, and my mate emailed me the rather unflattering photo. We were chatting on MSN and mentioned the pond near there, where human ashes were dumped and turned the water grey.

Just then I looked up at the TV and saw Dr Bronowski on TV, in his 'The Ascent Of Man' series, crouching by that very pond and holding a handful of the grey mud. :shock:
 
I visited the Belsen camp about 18 months ago, and because I'd heard of this phenomena I was on the look out for any birds, but didn't see any, which was odd as it's surrounded by woodland.
However the visitor centre had cardboard cut-out shapes of birds stuck all over the plate glass windows, which I took to be to stop birds flying into the glass.
So ironically although there was no birdlife to be seen at the time it looks as though the ones that do visit are prone to flying into the big windows, and probably dying. :(
 
On a side note, has any other supernatural effects been reported at the old concentration camp sites? Ghosts? Polts? UFO's? Or has it just been a lack of new life?
 
If places like Edgehill in Warwickshire, or Sedgemoor, or Culloden replay ghostly battles, "created" by the "energies" of the trauma that happened there...do any of the concentration camps report the same manifestations of trauma created energy?
 
Only heard the birds thing like most here.

Wonder why they don't go near it?
 
The Somme

Pardon a possibly ignorant question from the other side of the Pond, but wasn't it the Battle of the Somme which lasted 14 days and in which the British Isles lost more boys than the entirety of the British Empire during World Wart Two?
 
Zyklon-B

I can see DOGS avoiding Auschwitz if there's even the slightest residue of Zyklon-B (cyanide powder) remaining.

Some breeds of dogs - most famously bloodhouds - are reported to possess olfactery nerves FIFTY THOUSAND TIMES more powerful than human noses.

Visitors to Auschwitz sometimes experience sudden headaches and while these are usually attributed to spiritual or emotional causes it COULD be sub-clinical cyanide poisoning.

But this doesn't explain the birds....
 
I hadn't considered the possibility of poison residues. I wonder if that would be enough to kill off insect life on the grounds, giving birds less incentive to go near the place?
 
I believe that huge quantities of quicklime were poured onto the bodies in the mass graves.

This may account for the reluctance of birds to visit these sites.
 
There doesn't seem to have been any shortage of birds in and around the death camps DURING the years they were functioning. At least one Holocaust historian, in illustrating the schizophrenic nature of the Nazi madness, pointed out that SS officers often maintained bird hospital-aviaries atop camp buildings, where they nursed sick and injured birds back to health.
 
Re: The Somme

OldTimeRadio said:
Pardon a possibly ignorant question from the other side of the Pond, but wasn't it the Battle of the Somme which lasted 14 days and in which the British Isles lost more boys than the entirety of the British Empire during World Wart Two?
Click to expand...

Question Pardoned. the Somme was indeed one of the more bloody battles in WW1. Not sure if it there were more casulties during the battle than the entirity of WW2 but I had heard that more people died on the first day of WW1 than the combined Americain casulties during the Vietnam War. I can't remember where I heard that but I think it was a century of war type programme.
 
Re: The Somme

George_millett said:
OldTimeRadio said:
Pardon a possibly ignorant question from the other side of the Pond, but wasn't it the Battle of the Somme which lasted 14 days and in which the British Isles lost more boys than the entirety of the British Empire during World Wart Two?
Click to expand...

Question Pardoned. the Somme was indeed one of the more bloody battles in WW1. Not sure if it there were more casulties during the battle than the entirity of WW2 but I had heard that more people died on the first day of WW1 than the combined Americain casulties during the Vietnam War. I can't remember where I heard that but I think it was a century of war type programme.
Click to expand...

  • Battle of the Somme: -

    July 1st - November 18th, 1916

    420, 000 British casualties (58, 000 on the first day alone)

    200, 000 French casualties

    500, 000 German casualties

    Ground gained: 12 kilometres

    FirstWorldWar.com
 
1) the somme - exhibition coming up from July 1st at National Army Museum (london)

2) birds at auschwitz - england supporters (and other countries supporters) did a visit to dachau last week - near the end of PM on R4 on Fridya? - very moving. Anyway they finished the piece with the 'silence' of the camp and you could hear birdsong. could be an embellishment in production
 
lemonpie3 said:
...you could hear birdsong. could be an embellishment in production.
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Very probably or they would be broadcasting silence.

It has to be a physical reaction on the part of the birds rather than a psychological one IMO, I passed the Tower of London today and it made me think of the ravens there. The Tower of London, while not on a scale experienced at the concentration camps, was still the site of traumatic events for many people, yet the ravens (and other bird life) are still there.
 
Admittedly the ravens at the tower of london don't have any choice as their wings are clipped - nice way of guaranteeing the monarchy doesn't fall.
 
Also with the Tower it very few people where executed with in the confines of the Tower complex, Wikipedia has the number at about seven spread over its 928 year existence.

Compared to this the "conveyor belt" belt system the Nazi party put into place at each of their detah camps would put a greater scar on a location.
 
ArthurASCII said:
I believe that huge quantities of quicklime were poured onto the bodies in the mass graves.

This may account for the reluctance of birds to visit these sites.
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That seems to be backed up on the BBC on this Day site about the liberation:

Contrary to the popular myth, birds do sing there. There was a time when they did not sing. I inquired about this and it was explained to me that the huge amount of lime which was put down on the site after the war kept wildlife away for many years.
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Apparently it'll keep bears away from your garbage cans as well.
 
Given that the absence of birds has been observed, I veer towards chemical residue related explanations, whether that be the original poisons, effect of enormous amounts of human remains or quicklime etc.

If birds were somehow sensitive to places where there was a great deal of death, then the many slaughterhouses where untold millions of animals die would surely also be devoid of birds. Considering the scale and age of the meat industry, I think that birds avoiding those places would be a well known fact - were it the case.

So, birds avoid the camps, but not the slaughterhouses (unless I'm mistaken, somebody?). That says to me that its not the common element of a high death toll in the area that keeps the birds away.

Alli
 
i can understand the logic in this thread - BUT - Someone (and a fair share of animals too) have died on each square meter of the UK, most houses have seen at least one death (even for a new build, someone has died on the land before the house was built), and some houses are built on the sites of battles etc.
 
RealPaZZa said:
i can understand the logic in this thread - BUT - Someone (and a fair share of animals too) have died on each square meter of the UK, most houses have seen at least one death (even for a new build, someone has died on the land before the house was built), and some houses are built on the sites of battles etc.
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And your point being? :confused:
 
ok for those thet cant work it out for themselves...

one place is no better or worse than another, everywhere is a scene of something you can consider negative - be it just a death, a battle, a prison, a place of execution, a slaughterhouse, or just somewhere animals where killed etc.

yes i agree death camps did it on a larger scale but death is still death.
 
RealPaZZa said:
ok for those thet cant work it out for themselves...

one place is no better or worse than another, everywhere is a scene of something you can consider negative - be it just a death, a battle, a prison, a place of execution, a slaughterhouse, or just somewhere animals where killed etc.

yes i agree death camps did it on a larger scale but death is still death.
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True, but the 'meaning', behind the belief that animals shun the sites of the death camps, is that even nature recognizes something about evil intent and made manifest on such a scale.

Whether it's true, or not, that's another matter.
 
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