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Do Spirits Have A 'Real' Existence?

C.O.T.

Devoted Cultist
Joined
Dec 29, 2020
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Spain
Well, it's a complex question. In magic, spiritism and religions, people sometimes contact whit spirits entities that were related whit human beings, but a lot of times even whit non human entities.
That entities interact with the person that invoques them as if it were a person with all the capabilities of a human being: will, logic, memory, even sometimes some feelings and desires.
The question is: Do you think that such entities are simply projections of the mind of the human invoquer (or past invoquers), or have a Real Existence with autonomy of the invoquers?
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I was speaking to an elderly chap who's been conducting EVP sessions for decades a while back. He told me he'd been speaking to a spirit during one session and had decided to ask it the question "Can you see us?." .. he said the spirit answered "Yes." .. he asked "What do we look like?" and the spirit had answered him with "Like ghosts." .. he asked "Do you look like a ghost?", the spirit answered with "No.".

Presuming this chap wasn't pulling my leg, I find it an interesting reversal that they can look solid to themselves but it's us that look like ghosts to them.
 
When i read Jane Roberts about channelling Seth materials, i thought that in reality was a double personality of ms Roberts. But when in magic things spirits are even non human but with the comunication capabilities of an human, but maybe none of its interest. Is difficult to think as projections for something that is not really human
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I think there's room for them to be both - some are sentient because they seem to react to people. Others are just reflections/projections/whatever. My husband had an experience where the "ghost" (whatever it was) stopped in their tracks, turned and "looked" right at him (it had no face so didn't exactly look I guess, but from the way it was, he knew it "saw" him). The full body apparition I saw, as a kid - and a relative also saw the same week, maybe a different night - in both our cases, was very, very close to us yet seemed utterly unaware of our presence. Basically, it was so close it can't NOT have seen us. It was intently doing something and didn't look up yet I sort of knew it wasn't in the room at the same time as me, and IIRC, the other witness recounted a very similar experience.
 
Well having seen the Grim Reaper several times, and then a person / persons in the immediate vicinity die shortly after, I have to wonder if there isn't a whole other existence that we are not aware of.
 
Spirits are real.
They can also pretend to be the soul of a person whom they are not; basically you get some spirits who lie about their identity in order to trick humans into doing evil.

*Jewish belief.
 
Well having seen the Grim Reaper several times, and then a person / persons in the immediate vicinity die shortly after, I have to wonder if there isn't a whole other existence that we are not aware of.
It's interesting how people see things that are cultural tropes, though? When I was a kid, my friend's brother had a near death experience on the operating table - he was only 5 or so - and when he regained consciousness, described seeing the Virgin Mary. His family were devout Irish Catholics... I was only a kid myself but remember thinking I'd be more impressed if he'd seen Buddha or some obscure god with snakes for legs or something.
 
It's interesting how people see things that are cultural tropes, though? When I was a kid, my friend's brother had a near death experience on the operating table - he was only 5 or so - and when he regained consciousness, described seeing the Virgin Mary. His family were devout Irish Catholics... I was only a kid myself but remember thinking I'd be more impressed if he'd seen Buddha or some obscure god with snakes for legs or something.
Well I had no idea what I was seeing the first time this Grim Reaper thing showed up, I was scared to death -
It was only after the person who was right there passed on, that I realized what it was, and it is that black thing standing there, not moving.
And I started to wonder if there really is an existence after death, still not sure about that, but it does seem that spirits wander around in some form.
 
Ghosts and spirits is a “ quagmire “ because you have to remove any religion doctrine pertaining to life and death.

Death is a mystery.

I have not, but my wife has had ghostly encounters.

When we first married and took our first apartment, she had a ghostly encounter with a girl child in the hallway, which asks the question why the hallway and why a girl child ?

As we went to other apartments there were the foot steps on the stairs, and the indistinguishable voices at night.

But I had mentioned this in other posts, my wife had two visits from her passed father when he died, and when her mother was dying from cancer.

Her father came to comfort her in each case.

And where we live at is basically a battlefield of the north/South American Civil War, and the Federal preserved battlefield is “ ghost city “.

Yes, ghosts and spirits are very real !
 
Ghosts and spirits is a “ quagmire “ because you have to remove any religion doctrine pertaining to life and death.

Death is a mystery.

I have not, but my wife has had ghostly encounters.

When we first married and took our first apartment, she had a ghostly encounter with a girl child in the hallway, which asks the question why the hallway and why a girl child ?

As we went to other apartments there were the foot steps on the stairs, and the indistinguishable voices at night.

But I had mentioned this in other posts, my wife had two visits from her passed father when he died, and when her mother was dying from cancer.

Her father came to comfort her in each case.

And where we live out is basically a battlefield of the north/South American Civil War, and the Federal preserved battlefield is “ ghost city “.

Yes, ghosts and spirits are very real !
I've heard many times that Civil War ghosts appear continually - so that is true??
 
In magic when magicians reach akashic capabilities (something similar to the mistic experience) time after been skilled on it, has been repeatedly noticed that they can perceive unnatural beings as gnomes, fairies etc. (Example Franz Bardon, Lionel Snell)
Is quite strange that the perceptions fall ever into some cultural tropes as G.i t M. have pointed, tropes taken from the own culture environment of the magician. This gives the impression that the perceptions are created by the mind of the magician. But at the same time they seem to have an independent will.
Maybe is related with the ideas of Gustav Jung about a kind of hive telepatic mind. And parts of the mind taking some autonomy.
 
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Arthur C. Clarke makes a quote in his book “ 2001 A Space Odyssey “ that since the beginning of modern man each living person has 30 ghosts behind him.

The dead outnumber the living.

That is a lot of spirits roaming around our earth to intermingled with us living.
 
Arthur C. Clarke makes a quote in his book “ 2001 A Space Odyssey “ that since the beginning of modern man each living person has 30 ghosts behind him.

The dead outnumber the living.

That is a lot of spirits roaming around our earth to intermingled with us living.
Only 30? Doesn't seem like enough.
 
In magic when magicians reach akashic capabilities (something similar to the mistic experience) time after been skilled on it, has been repeatedly noticed that they can perceive unnatural beings as gnomes, fairies etc. (Example Franz Bardon, Lionel Snell)
Is quite strange that the perceptions fall ever into some cultural tropes as G.i t M. have pointed, tropes taken from the own culture environment of the magician. This gives the impression that the perceptions are created by the mind of the magician. But at the same time they seem to have an independent will.
Maybe is related with the ideas of Gustav Jung about a kind of hive telepatic mind. And parts of the mind taking some autonomy.
This is fascinating and would be a credible explanation of why they can seem like tropes.

I've been reading this book:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seeing-Fairies-Archives-Investigation-Authentic/dp/1938398262

(The Lost Archives of the Fairy Investigation Society) - mainly because I love things about Gerald Gardner style eccentric obsessives - and it's very striking that the eyewitness accounts of fairies people saw in various decades, the 1920s' fairies have a very 1920s' feel to them, the 1950s' fairies, a very 1950s' feel, etc... Contrast to the terrifying contemporary fictional fairies in 'Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell' which seem far more in keeping with our time...

We can only "see" what we can imagine?
 
I think spirits have a real existence, after all they show up in photos at times.
And I have to say, quite a few of them have spoken to me, perhaps they exist in another dimension?
Do they, though?

Like many of us here, I've seen and experienced some preternatural things - but I don't recall ever seeing a photo or film footage of a "ghost" yet, that was convincing? In a world where almost everyone now walks round with a decent camera on them most of the time - why are we not flooded now with photos of ghosts? There is a camera in the pocket of most adults on the planet, for the first time in history... convincing ghost photos should be coming out hourly lol.
 
Like many of us here, I've seen and experienced some preternatural things - but I don't recall ever seeing a photo or film footage of a "ghost" yet, that was convincing? In a world where almost everyone now walks round with a decent camera on them most of the time - why are we not flooded now with photos of ghosts? There is a camera in the pocket of most adults on the planet, for the first time in history... convincing ghost photos should be coming out hourly lol.
Well, Mrs. Chinnery certainly wasn't expecting her deceased mother to appear in a photo she took of her husband, but she's there. I realize that was back in 1959, but that is one of those photos that will probably never be explained.
And any time I have seen something 'odd', I didn't have my phone in my hand, immediately ready to snap a photo. Some of these 'things' just disappear in front of my eyes, they don't hang around posing LOL!
My mother, for instance, walking into my back door after she had passed on - I shrieked in fear and she simply disappeared.
But as for photos and videos, I have seen many on tv shows and the internet, of course a lot of them are questionable - for instance, 'The Osbournes Want To Believe' is a paranormal photo / video tv show, starring of course Ozzy Osbourne and Sharon, with Jack, their son, who is a paranormal investigator himself and shows his parents various clips and photos for their review.
Not saying that any of them are spectacular, and some of it is for comedy purposes, but there are a few here and there which are really odd and frightening, they show a great assortment - I wonder if you have 'The Osbournes Want To Believe' on tv in England?
 
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Living in Spain have to say that the vision of fairies is something very circumscribed to the north west of europe, being England and Ireland possibly the top. Is far uncommon on Mediterranean areas. Here in Spain north west of the country which have Celtic ancestors. In the rest of the country the most come from visions of dead relatives. Quite often there are visions of what are called " bedroom visitors" that are ghostly presences that people perceive close to his beds.
 
Was there ever a final determination made in those 'Cottingley Fairy' photos that were taken way back in 1917?
 
Is there ever a final determination? :) IIRC One or both of the girls confessed to the hoax, and the book was found that the cut outs were from. But one of the girls maintained that the final photo "The Fairy Bower" was genuine and one or both said they had seen fairies but the photos were fake!
One analysis I saw pointed out that the water in the waterfall was blurred but the fairies and their wings were not... If that is a good reason it took a long time to come up with it.
 
Surely this perceptions happen on a mental dimension. But that something happens on a mental dimension not implies that it would be simply a fantasy, a fantasy is a mental fact that happens in only one mind at the same time. But what will happen if that exact ( not only similar) fantasy will happen in 2 or 3 brains at the same time.
 
Is there ever a final determination? :) IIRC One or both of the girls confessed to the hoax, and the book was found that the cut outs were from. But one of the girls maintained that the final photo "The Fairy Bower" was genuine and one or both said they had seen fairies but the photos were fake!
One analysis I saw pointed out that the water in the waterfall was blurred but the fairies and their wings were not... If that is a good reason it took a long time to come up with it.
I've read many articles on that case, which is why I asked, but what about the residents of that area in recent years, has anything ever been reported?
 
I've read many articles on that case, which is why I asked, but what about the residents of that area in recent years, has anything ever been reported?
Sorry, Ronnie Jersey you probably therefore know a lot more about it than I do. :doh:

The area still looks fairly rural looking at google maps, but a lot less so than in Conan Doyle's time I’ll bet. I'm not sure how accessible the beck is now. I don't recall any stories from Cottingley since the fairies but I'm sure somebody on the forum will know. AFAIK it isn't an area you hear associated with a lot of “activity” like Pendle or Todmorden although it’s only 20 miles or so from either.
 
The area still looks fairly rural looking at google maps, but a lot less so than in Conan Doyle's time I’ll bet. I'm not sure how accessible the beck is now. I don't recall any stories from Cottingley since the fairies but I'm sure somebody on the forum will know. AFAIK it isn't an area you hear associated with a lot of “activity” like Pendle or Todmorden although it’s only 20 miles or so from either.
So perhaps these little girls did see something? I've never been able to find that out for certain.
 
I think certainty with any fortean phenomenon is pretty unlikely. Some cryptids (now of course ex cryptids) see Karl Shuker's "New and Rediscovered Animals", Meteorites as in "stones can't come from the sky" Ball lightning and "sprites". Not sure anything else is certain though just inherently more or less likely. :dunno:
 
Think that usually the term real is understood as material, i think that this is not the case. Maybe real in this circumstances is related whit the ideas of own will and permanence beyond the individual perception.
 
I am sure if any Irish post here, they believe in the “ wee people “.

I have heard it said that ghosts are trapped in a time cycle.

My wife claims she saw an American civil war soldier on the preserved battlefield for about 2 seconds.

I have seen pebbles skip in front of me on the walking path.
 
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