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Dog Suicides At Overtoun Bridge

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"Mystery of canine ‘suicides’ at eerie bridge
ALAN MACDERMID March 03 2005

The ancient burgh has had its ups and downs. Being turned into a corner of Glasgow by the makers of River City may have been the last straw.
But can it have affected Dumbarton so badly that even the dogs have lost the will to live?
Animal experts admitted yesterday they had no explanation for a spate of what appear to be canine suicides – all from the same spot.
At least five dogs have jumped to their deaths from a bridge over a burn at Overtoun House in the past six months.
In the most recent case, a woman out walking her dog watched in disbelief as her pet suddenly vaulted over the parapet and plunged 40ft to its death.
The bridge attracts visitors and dog-walkers, but it already has an eerie past. It was the home of Lord Overtoun, owner of a huge chemical works and pillar of the Free Church, and was the location for a BBC TV series Tales from the Madhouse.
But neither the dogs' shocked owners nor animal behavioural experts have been able to explain why the pets have turned the beauty spot into Rover's Leap.
Joyce Stewart, a leading animal behaviourist who regularly works with the Scottish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (SSPCA), said the pattern of deaths at the bridge was abnormal.
She said: "Dogs are very able to gauge the heights and depths they can safely jump. Some people will say this is very spooky and would look for another reason.
"I have never heard of a dog committing suicide. Often if they know they are going to die, they might go into hiding, but I have never heard of them actually taking their own lives.
"This is very weird. For five dogs to have done the same thing at the same spot is very mysterious. But there must be some rational explanation for it that has just not emerged.
"The bridge and what has happened there need to be urgently investigated."
Overtoun House was built in 1863 by James White, the father of Lord Overtoun. It was built as an ornate religious symbol and has the words "Fear God and keep His commandments" carved into its walls.
Local historians describe it as a place where angels and gargoyles are said to keep company.
It is now being renovated as a Christian Centre for Hope & Healing – part of a £2.5m project by Pastor Bob Hill.
But the outbreak of lemming-like behaviour has sent shudders down the spines of animal welfare inspectors, local residents and dog owners.
A spokeswoman for the SSPCA warned dog owners to get their pets on leads around the bridge.
She added: "It does seem rather strange that so many dogs are doing this at this same spot and it must have been heartbreaking for the owners."
One owner, who lost her cocker spaniel when it recently leapt off the bridge, said: "I know that a number of other dogs have died after jumping from that spot .I read somewhere that Dumbarton is one of the most depressing places to live in Britain, but I thought that meant for humans, not dogs."
The ancient burgh has had its ups and downs. Being turned into a corner of Glasgow by the makers of River City may have been the last straw.
But can it have affected Dumbarton so badly that even the dogs have lost the will to live?
Animal experts admitted yesterday they had no explanation for a spate of what appear to be canine suicides – all from the same spot.
At least five dogs have jumped to their deaths from a bridge over a burn at Overtoun House in the past six months.
In the most recent case, a woman out walking her dog watched in disbelief as her pet suddenly vaulted over the parapet and plunged 40ft to its death.
The bridge attracts visitors and dog-walkers, but it already has an eerie past. It was the home of Lord Overtoun, owner of a huge chemical works and pillar of the Free Church, and was the location for a BBC TV series Tales from the Madhouse.
But neither the dogs' shocked owners nor animal behavioural experts have been able to explain why the pets have turned the beauty spot into Rover's Leap.
Joyce Stewart, a leading animal behaviourist who regularly works with the Scottish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (SSPCA), said the pattern of deaths at the bridge was abnormal.
She said: "Dogs are very able to gauge the heights and depths they can safely jump. Some people will say this is very spooky and would look for another reason.
"I have never heard of a dog committing suicide. Often if they know they are going to die, they might go into hiding, but I have never heard of them actually taking their own lives.
"This is very weird. For five dogs to have done the same thing at the same spot is very mysterious. But there must be some rational explanation for it that has just not emerged.
"The bridge and what has happened there need to be urgently investigated."
Overtoun House was built in 1863 by James White, the father of Lord Overtoun. It was built as an ornate religious symbol and has the words "Fear God and keep His commandments" carved into its walls.
Local historians describe it as a place where angels and gargoyles are said to keep company.
It is now being renovated as a Christian Centre for Hope & Healing – part of a £2.5m project by Pastor Bob Hill.
But the outbreak of lemming-like behaviour has sent shudders down the spines of animal welfare inspectors, local residents and dog owners.
A spokeswoman for the SSPCA warned dog owners to get their pets on leads around the bridge.
She added: "It does seem rather strange that so many dogs are doing this at this same spot and it must have been heartbreaking for the owners."
One owner, who lost her cocker spaniel when it recently leapt off the bridge, said: "I know that a number of other dogs have died after jumping from that spot .I read somewhere that Dumbarton is one of the most depressing places to live in Britain, but I thought that meant for humans, not dogs."
The ancient burgh has had its ups and downs. Being turned into a corner of Glasgow by the makers of River City may have been the last straw.
But can it have affected Dumbarton so badly that even the dogs have lost the will to live?
Animal experts admitted yesterday they had no explanation for a spate of what appear to be canine suicides – all from the same spot.
At least five dogs have jumped to their deaths from a bridge over a burn at Overtoun House in the past six months.
In the most recent case, a woman out walking her dog watched in disbelief as her pet suddenly vaulted over the parapet and plunged 40ft to its death.
The bridge attracts visitors and dog-walkers, but it already has an eerie past. It was the home of Lord Overtoun, owner of a huge chemical works and pillar of the Free Church, and was the location for a BBC TV series Tales from the Madhouse.
But neither the dogs' shocked owners nor animal behavioural experts have been able to explain why the pets have turned the beauty spot into Rover's Leap.
Joyce Stewart, a leading animal behaviourist who regularly works with the Scottish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (SSPCA), said the pattern of deaths at the bridge was abnormal.
She said: "Dogs are very able to gauge the heights and depths they can safely jump. Some people will say this is very spooky and would look for another reason."
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:shock: :shock: Don't know about you folks, but this is the strangest thing I've heard of for a very long time :shock: :shock:

For more about this particular story see the thread dedicated to it:

Dog Suicides At Overtoun Bridge
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/dog-suicides-at-overtoun-bridge.63252/
 
i wonder if there is a spot where an optical illusion occurs, and the animals think the ground is closer than it really is.
 
I think we may safely rule out suicide. Which leaves the question of the motivation for the jumps.

The first thing that came to mind for me was the possibility of some animal--a large pike or a large turtle perhaps, capable of attracting the dog's attention and dragging it down to its death. I know our old dog would jump out of the window of a moving vehicle to chase a rabbit. Jumping off a bridge would be less stupid than jumping out of a car or truck travelling at 30 mph or more.

Can't say much more than that without knowing exactly how big the dogs were, whether they can see, hear, or smell something in the water which would excite them to the attack, and what mysterious creatures lurk in Scottish rivers and streams.

A very small dog could be drowned by a goose or a large aggressive duck. A medium sized dog would require a larger animal---hence the idea of a pike--very large, very aggressive, quite visible if near the surface of a clear body of water. A very large dog would be more likely to break its neck or drown by itself after a concussion.

A troll under the bridge, perhaps? ;)
 
Some pheromone or some sonic effect inaudible to humans perhaps?
 
The possibility of it being an optical illusion also occurred to me, although that doesn't explain what it is they think they're jumping at (is there anything that appeals to such a wide range of dogs? The stereotypical bone maybe? :) )
 
It's a great story, mystified my whole family. One rather heartlessly suggested that there might be a bag of sausages hanging off the bridge somewhere. Suprised that one owner lost a cocker spaniel, I always thought they were a fairly steady breed. Now if it had been a collie, well, that's different....

Hope that's the end of it though, poor hounds.
 
Colin said:
although that doesn't explain what it is they think they're jumping at
Click to expand...
I had a golden retriever who once broke free of her leash and launched herself at a semi-frozen lake -- yes, breaking through and getting drenched -- for no apparent reason.

At the time, we could only think that she'd never seen a frozen lake before and wanted to investigate, but there was no impetus for her to want to go into it -- no geese or anything about.

Point being perhaps they don't have to be jumping at something in particular. Perhaps there's a sometimes optical illusion caused by the vantage point combined with various weather, lighting, etc. conditions that simply causes curiosity?

And how would one figure out what constitutes an optical illusion for a dog? Don't dogs have a rather widely varying spectrum of vision, i.e. some breeds have far better eyesight than others. And they're colorblind too, aren't they?
 
Is there a link to the original story, and a picture of the bridge?
I need more information!
 
I just tried googling on Tales from the Madhouse, but I couldn't find a link with pictures... :(
 
Our dear and much-missed Border Collie (highly intelligent but pleasantly crackers with it) fell through the lily pads at the local pond at least a couple of times. We could only assume that she mistook the pads for grass (the pond was nearly 100 percent covered with them). I agree that this bridge business involves some sort of potical illusion... but I must say that it reminds me of the 'Devils Bridge' folklore tale that is associated with several bridges around the country.

here's but one example:

http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/wale ... yfed5.html
 
Has anyone else read the bunny suicides books?
On a serious note, i agree with the optical illusion theory too, would be great to see actual picture of the site, though maybe it's only obvious to dogs, the owners don't seem to have noticed anything.
Or maybe it's haunted by a ghost rabbit that's making the most of its afterlife?
 
Perhapse you need to be close to the ground to see it. Some one should take a photo from a low angle and see what is visible.
It is possible to be on a bridge and not know it. Many years ago my father leapt over a stone wall to answer a call of nature only to find it was the parapet of a bridge! He wasn't badly hurt as there was deep snow on the ground.
 
There are two pics of the bridge in the Estate section of that website (thanks, Morrigan!).

The parapet of the bridge is solid, so from a dog's eye level it would just look like another wall. But what provokes so many dogs to jump over this particular 'wall' is still a mystery... :shock:
 
Morrigan said:
http://www.overtounhouse.com/

Is a link to the current use of overtoun house. There are some pictures and history.

M
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what a beautiful place!!
looking at one of the bridge photos, i wondered if the dogs could have mistaken the tree tops for a grassy field. the trees looked lush and thick.
 
Psychics probe mystery of dog suicides


PARANORMAL investigators have been called in to investigate why dogs have been apparently killing themselves by leaping off a bridge.

Overtoun Bridge, which crosses a burn outside Overtoun House, hit the headlines in March last year after five dogs plunged 40ft to their deaths within a six- month period. No explanation was found for the behaviour, which has continued to baffle locals and animal experts.

Members of the Scottish Society for Psychical Research (SSPR) visited the site in Dumbarton last spring and documented sensing ghostly ministers, a mysterious Victorian woman and grasping children. Reporting on her 10-strong teams findings, leader Catriona Malan said: There were several correlations in what people felt. Three people felt anxious, depressed and disorientated and four felt negative feelings.There were definite themes of children and several mentioned a Victorian woman in a grey shawl at the far end of the bridge.John from Glasgow, one of the team members, described his experience: I felt lots of children grabbing my legs as I walked across and I felt drawn to the right-hand side. I felt very sick and uncomfortable at certain parts and sometimes it was as though I was sinking through the bridge. One psychic known as Mishka had a similar experience. I got a sense of children being around and a negative feeling at one end of the bridge. You could analyse why the dogs are jumping till the cows come home, I honestly dont know why they do it, she said.Another woman, who didnt want to be named, said: I got the feeling of a man who was possibly a minister. He kept saying he didnt understand evolution. He said, I cant assimilate what I know as Christian with Darwin. Malan said only one explanation as to why dogs were jumping off the bridge was given. One psychic thought maybe a workman had fallen off the bridge to his death and his ghost was down in the gully calling the dogs, she said.The bridge was the scene of a tragedy in 1994 when Kevin Moy threw his two-week-old son Eoghan to his death because he thought he was the devil. Moy was later sent to a mental hospital for treatment.

Malan insisted none of the investigators had prior knowledge about the bridge and the only information she gave them was regarding the dogs.

The apparent dog suicides continue to intrigue animal experts. Joyce Stuart, a leading canine behaviourist, said: I have never heard of a dog committing suicide and I dont think for one minute they go along the bridge and suddenly think I cant go on and jump. She did offer one possible explanation: One reason might be that the bridge is an optical illusion. At a dogs level it looks like its a wall on either side so theyre not aware its a bridge but they can hear whats going on around them and become too curious.Doreen Graham, for the Scottish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, said: Dog owners should keep their dogs on a leash when going across Overtoun Bridge. Its better to be safe than sorry.

http://www.sundayherald.com/53436
 
Min Bannister said:
There was a documentary about this a few years ago and it touted the odiferous minks as the cause. It is still odd though. There are minks in a lot of places.
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The Mink cause was mentioned but a local that used dogs to hunt in the areas
did not believe it he used to take his dogs under the bridge and never notice any
odd behavior, as you say odd.
 
Though I titled the thread dog suicides I dont
believe that is what is going on, I have seen dogs
look into water see their own reflection and jump
at it resulting in a big splash and instant swimming
lesson, but from this bridge they cant see whats underneath
and just seem to jump blindly over the parapet.
odd.
 
From what I've read, the dogs smell the wild minks and jump over the wall to pursue them, misjudging the drop on the other side. Seems reasonable to me.
 
It was on Quest last night at 11pm the unexplained files maybe on catch up
 
RaM said:
It was on Quest last night at 11pm the unexplained files maybe on catch up
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yeah but no but yeah but no

How old is that programme? The solution I've heard about goes back a few years. I reckon the puzzle has been long solved. Did the programme mention possible solutions?
 
Yes inc the Mink one but no one seemed convinced by them.
 
From that article:

The dogs that survived the jump and came back up to do it again had the chance to catch their minks, yet they walked away from the minks to jump the bridge again.
Click to expand...

That seems to imply that the surviving dogs went straight back up for another go. That can't be right, can it? That would definitely be odd behaviour. Otherwise, the mink theory sounds pretty plausible.

The Wikipedia article on animal suicide cites the case of a dog that apparently drowned itself in 1845, as did the dolphin that played Flipper (can a dolphin do that? Just stop breathing?). It also mentions a case similar to this one, in which 28 cows over three days all jumped/fell from the same cliff edge. Although what would drive a cow to existential despair I cannot fathom.
 
Yep I read the bit about doing it again I wounder if the wind
blowing through something on the bridge is making a noise
much like a silent dog whistle that we cant hear but dogs can?
but even then if true to run back and do it again?
 
The Scottish connection makes me wonder if there are minks at Edinburgh Castle? I recall that the nearest we came to losing our wee doggie was on the ramparts there, when she took a sudden fancy to exploring the other side of a low wall, which could have led to her death. :beav:
 
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