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Egyptian 'Carved' Glyphs

M

Melf

Gone But Not Forgotten
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please bear with me if this rambles

the more i look at "carved" aegyptian 'glyphs (in books/on telly), the more i come to the conclusion that either:-

a) there were standardised sizes of templates placed on the stone/s in question to aid the carving/s

or

b) that they had a form of "concrete" that was either poured/placed into moulds with the "proud" 'glyphs in reverse (like tiles, but on a grander scale. and somehow "fixed" on to walls/columns)

or

c) they had "movable type" to stamp the 'glyphs on to "wet/softened" (fanciful i know :) ) stone

also i wonder if in some museums dusty archives theres a set of wooden "typeface" languishing wrongly labeled either "ritual"/"unknown"

or a set of "typeface/templates" will be found during this year :D

not that im detracting from the skill of the artisans of ancient aegypt

so any other comments/theories?
 
you've put or.... as an archeologist i could go for a but would want to discuss b and c very carefully!

are you willing to split the three ideas like this?

I've some vague memories of anglo saxon stuff in the uk which mmight be relevant.

Kath
 
well kath (may i call you kath?)

re:- "or" is that a problem?

yes im willing to split them 3 ways. why?

my way of thinking is:-
if youre doing something like skilled work all the time,
wouldnt you think of a way to try and make life easier for yourself, through trail and error? (in your own time, of course)

thats why i put a,b,c

ok
a. is more likley to be the answer. so i could accept that, but only if the templates were to be found

b. i dont know though. it should it be possible to build massive structures in this way? (any engineers/architechts out there?)

c. maybe its too "von danikien"? :D

on a slightly different subject

in the tombs where you have friezes
were there teams of painters each specialising in their own subject/speciality? with master artists, and apprentists under each of them

because to me it would seem easier to have print blocks made up for the repetative scenes mainly the outlines and bits filled by hand (abit like printed wallpaper)

over to you now :)
 
Could it be that your idea of needing to use blocks or templates for this is a consequence of a very modern mindset?

I don't know much about ancient egypt so this is my usual uninformed rambling, but it seems to me that there are two factors that would suggest otherwise. Firstly we have a culture where writing was not a general skill- the literate were few and far between and the written word was of deep and protected cultural values. It may be that the craftsmen who were allowed to deal with this powerful force were the very finest available- perhaps they were just reproducing pictures they were given on papyrus. Secondly it seems to me that most of the surviving writing is around the graves of the great and good and they are more likely to have the very best craftsmen to work on their tombs which may have made them more consistent.

It may also be almost impossible, from our modern form of life and 21st century adht outlook, to imagine the dedication of the stonemasons and sculptors who carved those heiroglyphs. Perhaps they were just really good at their jobs...
 
Breakfast said:
Could it be that your idea of needing to use blocks or templates for this is a consequence of a very modern mindset?
Click to expand...

could be, but i like to try and find possible answers/pionts of view for everything

Secondly it seems to me that most of the surviving writing is around the graves of the great and good and they are more likely to have the very best craftsmen to work on their tombs which may have made them more consistent.
Click to expand...


other writings by men and women have been found in the ruins of workers villiages


(wow 2 quotes on 1 page! hey! im getting good at this quoting lark :D (sorry))
 
Melf dear... after you were so nice about my curves in that black underwear you can call me just about anything!

Am looking for refs to James Lang's templates theories...

Kath
 
stonedoggy said:
Am looking for refs to James Lang's templates theories...

Kath
Click to expand...

some else has theories about templates?
sorry kath but ive dont rember hearing of him :(

can you please tell of your thoughts about a and b :D
 
Jim Lang is an expert on anglo saxon carving - wrote the best book on hogbacks IMHO.

Anyway, I remember some prepublication research he was doing in the 80s which seemed to show that templates of parts of designs were being used, perhaps to give a uniform effect or so that less skilled workers could complete what an expert intended - one of the most striking was a curved line which was often repeated across the corpus as both a helmet and a bird. Honest!

I want to use it as an eg of supporting evidence for a). Also can't see why they wouldn't have used some form of layout techniques... is it contentious? I'm pretty sure I've seen scribing lines and so on on some of the duff unfinished pieces.



On b and c: carving doesn't take /that/ long. And if you have lots of people to do it.... again, I'm remembering examples where it doesn't make sense and the argument is that an illiterate carver did the wrong thing.

And they did have concrete - used in a different way in the buildings I think and not the same as the stone....

Kath

Edit: to include Jim's obituary http://www.britarch.ac.uk/ba/ba22/ba22obit.html
 
thanx kath :)

i thought you meant from an aegyptology angle

hogbacks ive heard of them
they had some on time team when they were in glasgow
 
why do you use a leading A? I'm worried we're on different topics - like magic and magik.

When I was at uni we had a song and dance rountine about hogbacks... called Doin' The Brompton Hogback IIRC....

I guess the glasgow ones would be at govan?

don't talk to me about time team.......

Kath
 
playing scabble to many times when i was younger :D

yep the ones at govan

havent hogbacks also been found some places along the border?

(or am i trying to seem more knowledgable than i am? :D )
 
I seem to remember both Erich von Daniken and Rene Noorbergen (who were at opposing ends of theory curve in the 70s) both postiting that the mirror finish at the base of deep heiroglyphs on granite stelae and obelisks was possilby due to a method of 'softening' the stone to allow it to be worked with bronze tools. Stitchin et al have posited the idea of there being high grade steels available in Dynastic Egypt, which, based on some interesting finds in India of primitive but effective blast furnaces made in modified caves, is possible.
 
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