End Times UFOs

JOHND

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#1
I used to believe we were being visited by extraterrestrial beings, having witnessed a UFO hovering over a chemical plant in Manchester England in 1999.
As a practising catholic Christian & a believer in the appearances of the Blessed Virgin Mary around the world at places like Medjugorje, I wondered had she ever spoken on the matter.
Jesus & Mary appeared to Veronica a chosen visionary at Bayside USA (1970-94) amongst other things they told her was that Satan & his cohorts were flying these various craft around the world in order to trick mankind into believing that aliens exist.
There were many miracles performed there & other signs of the divine presence at the time. As we are now living through the period of the end times, when the Christian church is RAPTURED news media will report to those left behind that a mass alien abduction has occurred as opposed to the actual divine act.
Given what was said at Bayside & what the trusted seers like Jonathan Cahn are saying I would be surprised if this has not taken place by the end of 2021 at the latest.
 

markrkingston1

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#3
when the Christian church is RAPTURED news media will report to those left behind that a mass alien abduction has occurred as opposed to the actual divine act.
As a matter of interest, how would one know the difference? If people (seemingly randomly) just disappear then how would those left behind know that it was a "divine act"?

Also, some imagined descriptions of the rapture suggest that the true believers would literally fly up into the sky. As I recall, levitation of this sort is occasionally described as part of alleged UFO abduction events. Again, how would non-raptured observers know that flying people was an actual "divine act"?


(Perhaps this would be better off in the Religions & Cults subforum...)
 

AlchoPwn

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#4
As a matter of interest, how would one know the difference? If people (seemingly randomly) just disappear then how would those left behind know that it was a "divine act"
This is a very valid point. The fact is that people disappear every day. Some come home, while some show up dead in a ditch, and others are never seen again. Do we therefore assume that everyone in the last category has been "Raptured" ?

Next, I take huge issue theologically with the whole idea of "the rapture". It is based entirely on one throw-away line from Paul in 1 Thessalonicans, where he says that God intends to "snatch people up". This has literally nothing to do with anything Jesus ever spoke about, and Paul himself never mentions the idea again in scripture. As a result I think the doctrine is flawed and it fails Biblical Hermeneutical analysis. Are we given reinforcement for the Rapture in Revelations? Not really, no mention of being bodily launched into space in Revelations. Rapture goes directly against the more scripture-honored idea of people rising from their graves renewed to face judgement. In short, Paul made it all up, and you suckers fell for it because you didn't read the Bible properly. Therefore it is fair to say that all Rapture believers are basically schismatic heretics spreading a false doctrine, and their fates are fore-ordained.
 
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Analis

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#6
Rapture goes directly against the more scripture-honored idea of people rising from their graves renewed to face judgement. In short, Paul made it all up, and you suckers fell for it because you didn't read the Bible properly. Therefore it is fair to say that all Rapture believers are basically schismatic heretics spreading a false doctrine, and their fates are fore-ordained.
But in this respect, every Christian is an heretic, as they all believe in made-up beliefs which are not present in the Scriptures (Jesus being God, the Trinity, eternal damnation in Hell etc...).

For the rest, the OP's first post exemplifies what distinguishes an interpretation of anomalous manifestations based on dogma from how an anomalist (parapsychologist, gost-hunter, ufologist...) sees them. They call miracles what we call paranormal or fortean events. Their miraculous apparitions and related phenomena obey to the same rules and phenomology than other fortean phenomena. They often try to account for why the latter mimic so closely what they call godly manifestations by ascribing them to the work of the Devil, but fail to provide any proof of that.
 

AlchoPwn

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#7
But in this respect, every Christian is an heretic, as they all believe in made-up beliefs which are not present in the Scriptures (Jesus being God, the Trinity, eternal damnation in Hell etc...).
Well, on this issue of damnation being eternal, there is immense reinforcement in the Bible in nearly 100 separate verses specifically referencing damnation being eternal. There are nearly 40 verses that refer to the trinity, from which that doctrine was promulgated, though St. Augustine did go a bit crazy about it for political reasons, so that the Church of Rome could persecute heretics who claimed to understand the "Mystery of the Trinity". Jesus also frequently said words to the effect that the father and he were one, so I can't really dispute that either from a Christian theological point of view.

On the other hand, Jesus was just awful at being Jewish. That whole bit where Jesus forgives people for their sins personally is complete blasphemy from a Jewish standpoint. Not only is Jesus saying that he his God (and one had better be really right before saying shit like that), but he is also teaching people something really bad, in that, if you do something bad to other people but stay loyal to Jesus, he will cover for your ass. That is an admission and endorsement of institutional corruption, and Jesus should have been hauled down and crucified again for teaching that. What a terrible example to set for people! Jesus actually has a lot of sins to answer for if you know where to look in scripture.

For the rest, the OP's first post exemplifies what distinguishes an interpretation of anomalous manifestations based on dogma from how an anomalist (parapsychologist, ghost-hunter, ufologist...) sees them. They call miracles what we call paranormal or fortean events. Their miraculous apparitions and related phenomena obey to the same rules and phenomology than other fortean phenomena. They often try to account for why the latter mimic so closely what they call godly manifestations by ascribing them to the work of the Devil, but fail to provide any proof of that.
I agree with your analysis of the situation here Analis. As an aside, when the Devil performs miracles they are called "marvels". Think on that when you watch the next Avengers movie.
:exor:
 

Analis

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#8
Well, on this issue of damnation being eternal, there is immense reinforcement in the Bible in nearly 100 separate verses specifically referencing damnation being eternal. There are nearly 40 verses that refer to the trinity, from which that doctrine was promulgated, though St. Augustine did go a bit crazy about it for political reasons, so that the Church of Rome could persecute heretics who claimed to understand the "Mystery of the Trinity". Jesus also frequently said words to the effect that the father and he were one, so I can't really dispute that either from a Christian theological point of view.
There are definitely plenty of mentions to the Father, to the Son, to the Word, to the Spirit of God or the Holy Spirit, but none of the Trinity as such. Of course, there are plenty of contradictions within the New Testament, which allows for anybody to select verses at his convenience, exactely as is the case with the Torah or the Koran. But in the case of the Trinity, it is needless to resort to this explanation. Trinity as we know it was a fabrication which was elaborated by the so-called later Fathers of the Church, all of them coming with different interpretations, to make a comprehensive approach of a disparate material, that was intended to remain disparate, as its authors, of different and contradictory opinions, had never wished to create it as a consistent system. Jesus may sometimes say that he is one with the Father, but only metaphorically ; at the same time he says explicitely that he is not God (even in John's Gospel, despite that he is said to be the Word). Similarly, the Son refers to different interpretations, different according to the various authors, which make sense in the context of an Ancient cultural background (that he was annointed by God, that he was a half-god, that he was a divine being incarnated etc...), and are all inconsistent with the later concept of Trinity, that the presence of mentions of the previous entites does not validate. After all, one could reply to you that even one brief mention of the Rapture is enough to legitimate the belief, despite that we don't know what Paul meant...
Coming to damnation, when it is described precisely, it is, as was discussed recently in another thread, as complete destruction, the ultimate death, in a way. Obviously, many commentaors did not share this view, and came with the conception of eternal damnation in Hell as we know it, but they didn't draw it from the canonical Scriptures.

On the other hand, Jesus was just awful at being Jewish. That whole bit where Jesus forgives people for their sins personally is complete blasphemy from a Jewish standpoint. Not only is Jesus saying that he his God (and one had better be really right before saying shit like that), but he is also teaching people something really bad, in that, if you do something bad to other people but stay loyal to Jesus, he will cover for your ass. That is an admission and endorsement of institutional corruption, and Jesus should have been hauled down and crucified again for teaching that. What a terrible example to set for people! Jesus actually has a lot of sins to answer for if you know where to look in scripture.
Jesus was an awful character on many things, notably when he tells of his conceptions of marriage and adultery, that even the most extremist Christian fondamentalist would not dare anymore to support.
 

JOHND

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#9
Please see my post on the Religion page on the Rapture, many will just disappear & Satan has to come up with an explanation which is alien abduction. Some abductees have reported the smell of sulphur in the aliens presence which is associated with Hell. On the Monsters & Mysteries programme when a Pastor was looking into a case with 2 others the crucifix fell off the wall and a small black winged figure appeared in its place.
 
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