Evolving Aliens?

hedgewizard1

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#1
As an observer of UFOs and Ufology for almost 40 years, there's something that I've wondered for some time now.

Why have the aliens encountered changed so dramatically over the years?

IN the 1940's and 50's, we had reports of human looking aliens from Venus and Saturn and such.

From the late 50's to the early 70's, we saw fewer of them. Instead there was a vast array of types: hairy little hominids, goblin-like creatures (ie Hopkinsville), assorted robots, and various humanoid beings.

From the late70's to present, we have the greys.

I have some ideas, but I wanted to see what others thought before discussing them.
 

Timble2

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#2
One possibility is that (assuming they’ve not entirely psychological phenomena) they don’t really look like any of the above, but have some sort of psychic cloak so that you see either what you expect to see (based on popular culture or religion), or something from your own subconcious (accounts for the random weirdies).
 

Analogue Boy

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#3
What Timble2 said.

Altenatively, maybe the other alien visitors were in fact real. Perhaps some Intergalactic Examination Board has Earth, among other planets, as some sort of test environment where responsible civilisations wishing to join must visit and collect samples with minimal disturbance to the locals.

The other entities, having passed the grade have moved on.

Just a random thought.
 

Jerry_B

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#4
Various entities of various shapes and sizes are still being seen, allegedly. It's just that the Greys get all of the attention, what with the X Files and whatnot.

Have a look at this site - it's a pretty much up to date source.
 

jefflovestone

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#5
Revolving aliens might explain some of the propulsion systems and the saucer-like shape of some of the craft.
 

GNC

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#6
Haven't Space Brothers, or Nordics, the tall, blond, human-looking ones or whatever you want to call them, pretty much been a sightings constant since the 1940s? Or before, maybe?
 

TinFinger

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#7
maybe thet are so strange they dont look like any of them
so our brains paint in the best match we can comprehend without making us go mad,like a selfdefence

its possible they have stayed the same but we have not.
 

Philo_T

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#8
Tastes just like chicken.


(no, that is not a non sequitur. well, not entirely.)
 

Jerry_B

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#9
There was one UFO case (from South Africa IIRC) where the UFO entities told the witness that they could appear as whatever the witness wanted them to look like.
 

OldTimeRadio

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#10
hedgewizard1 said:
IN the 1940's and 50's, we had reports of human looking aliens from Venus and Saturn and such.

From the late 50's to the early 70's, we saw fewer of them. Instead there was a vast array of types: hairy little hominids, goblin-like creatures (ie Hopkinsville), assorted robots, and various humanoid beings.
Alas, my own memories here differ somewhat from yours.

The earliest modern UFO reports were filled with "little blue men." From New Mexico in 1947 and 1948. From the 1952 flap. From France, heavily, in 1954. And the Hopkinsville "goblin" attacks (they occurred the Summer before I entered high school) were 1955 rather than the late 1950s.

True, George Adamski claimed he'd met "Nordic" Venusians in November, 1952, but few if any serious researchers took him the least bit seriously.
 

Analis

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#11
Old Time Radio: "True, George Adamski claimed he'd met "Nordic" Venusians in November, 1952, but few, if any serious researchers took him the least bit seriously."
Other people, contactees or non-contactees, described blonde haired human-like beings prior to him.
I am not aware of the use of 'little blue men' during the Western European wave of Fall 1954 (I prefer to call it this way than French, as other countries were involved, notably Belgium and Italy). If it was used, I'd be interested to know its origin. But it is true that Small Greys didn't exist prior to the mid-70s. From the end of the 40s until now, the dominant kind of entity was the dwarf humanoid, usually large-headed. But the combination of features seen in the 'Grey' (black eyes with no pupil, no or very reduced nose, sickly body, no ears etc...) didn't exist in the 50s and 60s. Although some were sometimes present in isolation, like grey skin. But grey-skinned dwarves looked more human.
Most entities in the wave of Fall 1954 were human-like dwarfs, often in 'diver's suits'. Sometimes, like in the famous Rosa Lotti case, it was a pilot's suit. There were some examples of hairy dwarves, less agressive than their Venezuelian colleagues from one month later. And too completely human beings; rarely, they were seen in association with other entities. Curiously, in two instances, Quarouble and Chabeuil, the beings were described as dwarfs under a diver's suit, but with no arms visible.

As to the recent 'predominance' of Greys, it applies only to CE4s. They came out of nowhere in abductions at the end of the 70s, to the surprise of ufologists. There are examples of them in encounters with no UFO Involved (AN3 or AN4 according to Vallée's classification). Interestingly, on the UFO Updates, a discussion relating to their existence in CE3 could come with no example. This 'primacy' in CE4s perhaps has no meaning, but more trickster behaviour. A remainder that manifestations mustn't beheld too litteraly
 

stu neville

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#12
Analis said:
Interestingly, on the UFO Updates, a discussion relating to their existence in CE3 could come with no example.
When you say CE3, do you mean the Ufological term or the movie title? I ask because..
Analis said:
..As to the recent 'predominance' of Greys, it applies only to CE4s. They came out of nowhere in abductions at the end of the 70s, to the surprise of ufologists...
...very shortly after the release of Close Encounters of the Third Kind, which would (to me, anyway) tie in with the perception being informed by current cultural influences. The brain will always try to find patterns to which it can relate, so it latches onto the nearest available reference, especially one that's everywhere you look.

Which is not to say there's nothing there to really see - I agree with Timble as well, we see what we want/expect/are allowed to see. Indeed, are they "seen" at all, or perceived in some other way we don't really understand? The ultimate in subjectivity, which could also go some way to explain a whole range of other Fort things.
 

OldTimeRadio

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#13
Analis said:
Other people, contactees or non-contactees, described blonde haired human-like beings prior to him.
Very possibly, but they received very little or even no publicity. Several of them were eventually heard of, but only post-Adamski and in his train.

A number of 1950s jokes started, "Flying saucer lands. A little man climbs out..."

But it is true that Small Greys didn't exist prior to the mid-70s. From the end of the 40s until now, the dominant kind of entity was the dwarf humanoid, usually large-headed. But the combination of features seen in the 'Grey' (black eyes with no pupil, no or very reduced nose, sickly body, no ears etc...) didn't exist in the 50s and 60s. Although some were sometimes present in isolation, like grey skin. But grey-skinned dwarves looked more human.

Most entities in the wave of Fall 1954 were human-like dwarfs, often in 'diver's suits'. Sometimes, like in the famous Rosa Lotti case, it was a pilot's suit. There were some examples of hairy dwarves, less agressive than their Venezuelian colleagues from one month later. And too completely human beings; rarely, they were seen in association with other entities. Curiously, in two instances, Quarouble and Chabeuil, the beings were described as dwarfs under a diver's suit, but with no arms visible.

As to the recent 'predominance' of Greys, it applies only to CE4s. They came out of nowhere in abductions at the end of the 70s, to the surprise of ufologists. There are examples of them in encounters with no UFO Involved (AN3 or AN4 according to Vallée's classification). Interestingly, on the UFO Updates, a discussion relating to their existence in CE3 could come with no example. This 'primacy' in CE4s perhaps has no meaning, but more trickster behaviour. A remainder that manifestations mustn't beheld too litteraly
You'll get no argument from me here. But I would like to point out that the typical "grey" face is extremely similar to a face seen in several magazines and newspapers around 1953 - the result of a MIT class project to conceptualize what a modern, intelligent, technological-savy, bi-pedal dinosaur would look like today had the saurian line continued to evolve for another 70 million years.
 

stu neville

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#14
OldTimeRadio said:
... I would like to point out that the typical "grey" face is extremely similar to a face seen in several magazines and newspapers around 1953 - the result of a MIT class project to conceptualize what a modern, intelligent, technological-savy, bi-pedal dinosaur would look like today had the saurian line continued to evolve for another 70 million years.
A theory advanced in Star Trek: Voyager as the origin of the Vear race. [edit] That should be the Voth race.[/edit]

Also on Star Trek (TOS), c. 1967, was Tosbalok, who looked like this (and adorned the end credits as well.)



Another familiar-looking alien.
 

Vardoger

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#15
One thing i've noticed is that a lot of sightings in South America through the years has described the aliens looking like small hairy people with long hanging arms which differs a lot from the standard green/gray/nordic aliens seen elsewhere.
 

Analogue Boy

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#16
I read a good throwaway comment on t'interweb about this subject along the lines of the reason there are so many blurry pictures of UFOs is because they don't know what to BE yet.

Thinking about it, if they exist, they may be manipulating light as it may be integral to the propulsion system.
 

graylien

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#17
The most striking thing about the post-Strieber Greys is their simplicity. They seem more like cartoons than like complex living organisms.

In real life, evolution generally implies a move towards greater complexity and divergence rather than lesser complexity and convergence.

On the other hand, there is such a thing as convergent evolution. I suppose you could argue that all humanoid species might eventually end up looking like the greys.

(It would take rather longer than 60 years, of course. :) )
 

OldTimeRadio

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#18
graylien said:
The most striking thing about the post-Strieber Greys is their simplicity. They seem more like cartoons than like complex living organisms.
I remember thinking that when I first saw CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND back in 1977 or 1978. "Getting abducted by these guys would be terminally boring."
 

Analis

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#19
stuneville: "When you say CE3, do you mean the Ufological term or the movie title? I ask because..."
I meant the ufological term...
In fact, the pale ETs in Close Encounters of the third kind were not true greys. But of the kind described previously, from the Hills' or Schirmer's abductions, for example. True greys appeared around 1975 (Andeasson-Luca, for example), and ascended quickly in the following years, seemingly unaffected by any fictionnal (or ufological) influence. In any case, we are surrounded by so many cultural influences that conditionning would come from a multitude of sources. There were other movies equally (ET) or more (Star Wars) influential. They had no influence whatsoever on ufology. Now that the Grey has become ubiquitous, this would be much more difficult to discern. But at the beginning of the abduction era, in 1977 (the year of CE3, the movie...), Alwin LAWSON tested people under hypnosis to induce imaginary abductions. Lawson did a precious work, as it showed that S-F was influential. But it produced pictures of giant conical monsters or lizards. Not the ufological background. Only one of the experiencers, if I recall well, described a humanoid with feline eyes, like in the Hills' case. Cultural conditionning, from fictionnal or ufological sources, had little influence on ufology. More, in the following years, the visions became increasingly threatening at a time when most influential fictionnal ETs were friendly. As a whole, ufology and socio-cultural background were at odds.

"Indeed, are they "seen" at all, or perceived in some other way we don't realy understand?"
Are you suggesting that they are some kind of psychic entities, or that we encounter them on a psychic plane? Or that they can morph at will, mould themselves on any expectation, or the shape they arbitarily choose? Or that they are only part of a virtual reality?

OldTimeRadio: "But I would like to point out that the typical "grey" face is extremely similar to a face seen in several magazines around 1953 - the result of a MIT class project to conceptualize wqhat a modern, intelligent, technological-savy, bi-pedal dinosaur would look like today had the saurian line continued to evolve for another 70 million years."
They imagined it from a dinosaur? It was weird... I won't dispute that occasionnally, there were examples of "grey"-like beings in SF. I recalled the striking face of the mazone 'baby' in the anime version of Uchu Kaizoku Captain Herlock (episode 18 ), released in 1978. But did they have it any influence at all ?
 

Timble2

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#21
Analis said:
... True greys appeared around 1975 (Andeasson-Luca, for example), and ascended quickly in the following years, seemingly unaffected by any fictionnal (or ufological) influence...
Didn't Betty Andreasson Luca's experiences go back to 1967, but were only published in 1979, So if that's right she either saw the greys 10 years before anybody else did, or her account of the aliens' appearance was perhaps influenced by CE3K and other SF with tweaks of her own.

So what were the greys doing in the intervening 10 years?

BTW: I'd suggest that it was Communion (the book cover in particular), that finally fixed the greys as the archetypal alien in the eyes of the public at large.
 

Mythopoeika

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#22
graylien said:
The most striking thing about the post-Strieber Greys is their simplicity. They seem more like cartoons than like complex living organisms.

In real life, evolution generally implies a move towards greater complexity and divergence rather than lesser complexity and convergence.

On the other hand, there is such a thing as convergent evolution. I suppose you could argue that all humanoid species might eventually end up looking like the greys.

(It would take rather longer than 60 years, of course. :) )
Perhaps the greys (if they exist at all) are artificially-engineered lifeforms or robots? An advanced race may choose to enhance itself by genetic engineering, and one of those enhancements may be apparent simplification - i.e. removal of 'unnecessary' organs, streamlining etc.
 

OldTimeRadio

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#23
Analis said:
They imagined it from a dinosaur?
That's my memory from age 12 or so, when "dinosaur" was generic for everything of the type. But it may have been giant saurians in general.
 

graylien

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#25
Didn't her stepson recently claim that the whole thing was a hoax?
 

OldTimeRadio

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#27
Timble2 said:
graylien said:
Didn't her stepson recently claim that the whole thing was a hoax?
Here http://www.luca65.com/page2.html , horrible colours.
The way I read this, Bob Luca, Jr., believes that his father is lying but equally that his step-mother (Betty Andreasson Luca) is telling the truth as she believes it to be.

Now Betty Andreasson's knowledge here may or may not be false but there would seem to be no hoaxing on her part.
 

graylien

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#28
The language is rather ambivalent, but it seems to me he's saying the whole thing was originally a hoax but that Betty Andreasson has come to believe in it.

Things seem to have kicked off with this post on UFO Updates, where he implies that Betty is delusional.

If you have the patience to trawl through the responses to his post, the great and good of Ufology seem to be of the general opinion that because Bob Luca's website is a little eccentric he must therefore be making the whole thing up. Then his father weighed in with this post, which seems to have effectively halted discussion.

Andreasson's daughter, on the other hand, claims to be an abductee herself. She has her own website here. If you send her $25 she'll draw some "energised symbols" for you. (Incidentally, Ufology buffs might be intrigued to learn that one of the aliens she encountered was called "Jessup".)
 

OldTimeRadio

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#29
graylien said:
The language is rather ambivalent, but it seems to me he's saying the whole thing was originally a hoax but that Betty Andreasson has come to believe in it.
I dunno. How common is it to begin sincerely believing in one's own hoax?
 

Timble2

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#30
OldTimeRadio said:
graylien said:
The language is rather ambivalent, but it seems to me he's saying the whole thing was originally a hoax but that Betty Andreasson has come to believe in it.
I dunno. How common is it to begin sincerely believing in one's own hoax?
I don't know how common, but I've come across people who must at some point have known they were lying, but now seem to have convinced themselves of the truth of their story.

Looking at Becky Andreasson's website, the term "eccentric" could be applied to all the Andreasson family members who've gone public...
 
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