Giant aye aye (Tratratratras not welcome)

[oldrover]

Does anyone here have any info on the supposed death of an Daubentonia robusta in the 1930s, or indeed any accounts of sightings etc of this animal?

I know about the Tratratratra I've read those accounts.

Thanks for reading.

 

[amyasleigh]

I have just become aware of a passage in Karl Shuker’s book “The Beasts that Hide from Man”, which maybe sheds a bit of light on this matter:

“There was once a larger version [of the aye-aye, Daubentonia madagascariensis] -- the giant aye-aye, Daubentonia robusta – whose skeletal remains indicate that it was a third bigger than the typical aye-aye. Although the giant aye-aye supposedly died out many centuries ago [the Wikipedia ‘Timeline of extinctions’ suggests a date of approximately 885 AD], there is an intriguing piece of evidence to suggest that this noteworthy species may have still been alive more recently. A scientific paper from 1934 noted that near the village of Andranomavo in the Soalala District, a government official called Hourcq saw a native hunter holding the skin of an exceptionally large aye-aye – so large, in fact, that some researchers feel that it might indeed have been from a modern-day specimen of the giant aye-aye.”

This mentioned killing in the 1930s has been cited (briefly, and not expanded on) in at least one other source. My personal take is (regretfully) along the lines that the axiom “the simpler (and duller) explanation is overall more likely to be the correct one”: can carry weight in Fortean circles also. I have to see a fair possibility of Shuker’s “researchers” here, indulging in a bit of wishful thinking; and to reckon it likelier that the skin was indeed of an exceptionally large Daubentonia madagascariensis.

 

[PeteByrdie]

I agree with Amyasleigh. It's unfortunate that the internet is replete with sites stating without ambiguity that the last giant aye aye died in 1930, which probably all stem from a single source. However, it seems clear the official line is that only a few sub-fossil remains of the giant aye aye have been found, the primary evidence that they coexisted with humanity being piercings for beading on some teeth. This stands to be investigated further, in case some important account has slipped through the archival cracks. But I'm sure that it will turn out to be the case that the ubiquitous internet claim that this animal became extinct in the 1930s will originate with the account mentioned in Dr Shuker's book.

 

[oldrover]

Thanks for that additional piece of info about the pierced teeth. I too agree with what's been said about the skin discussed in the 1934 paper is what's given rise to the idea that D.robusta was still tapping away into the modern era.

 

[kamalktk]

Without more information about the piercing for beading of the teeth, the fact that there are teeth pierced for beading does not necessarily mean that humans lived at the same time as the Daubentonia robusta. It could also mean that humans found skeletal remains.

 

[PeteByrdie]

Without more information about the piercing for beading of the teeth, the fact that there are teeth pierced for beading does not necessarily mean that humans lived at the same time as the Daubentonia robusta. It could also mean that humans found skeletal remains.

Fair point!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3254846

Modified subfossil aye-aye incisors from southwestern Madagascar: species allocation and paleoecological significance.

Abstract
Two of the three drilled aye-aye incisors collected in 1901 by Grandidier at the subfossil site of Lamboharana were recently rediscovered in uncatalogued collections of the Institut de Paléontologie in Paris. These teeth are not much wider or thicker than those of the extant aye-aye (Daubentonia madagascariensis), but their arc of curvature is noticeably greater. These facts indicate that the teeth probably belong to D. robusta, a large extinct aye-aye whose dentition is otherwise unknown. No other remains referable to Daubentonia have been reported from Lamboharana, although D. robusta is known from other localities in the southwest. The presence of Daubentonia in southern Madagascar does not demonstrate that this region was markedly more humid or densely forested in the recent past. It remains to be established whether the extinction of D. robusta throughout its range in southern Madagascar, and local disappearance of D. madagascariensis everywhere but in the eastern forest biotope, is due to late Holocene climatic change, to anthropogenic effects, or both factors combined.

Doesn't even seem that certain those teeth are from D. robusta, and not just a larger individual of D. madagascariensis.

http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/factsheets/entry/aye-aye

An extinct robust form of the aye-aye (Daubentonia robusta) once existed in the dry southwest of Madagascar, the only area where the extant form currently does not exist. This extinct form likely weighed between three and five times what Daubentonia madagascariensis weighs with a predicted average weight of around 13.5 kg (29.76 lbs) (Simons 1994). Some evidence exists as to the coexistence of this form with humans as several drilled incisors attributed to Daubentonia robusta have been found ostensibly for use as pendants of some sort. It remains unclear however as to whether or not human action contributed to the extinction of this species (MacPhee & Raholimavo 1988).

http://daubentoniarobusta.tumblr.com/

TWO INCISORS BELONGING TO D. ROBUSTA WERE FOUND IN LAMBOHARANA, LOCATED IN SOUTHWESTERN MADAGASCAR, IN 1901, BUT WERE NOT EXAMINED AND DOCUMENTED UNTIL 1988 BY MACPHEE AND RAHOLIMAVO. THE INCISORS FOUND HAD THICK ENAMEL THAT THINNED OUT TOWARDS THE ROOT THOUGH THERE WERE EVIDENT HUMAN ALTERATIONS. HOLES, 2MM IN DIAMETER, WERE DRILLED INTO THE TEETH AND THE ROOT ENDS HAD BEEN SMOOTHED OUT THROUGH FILING OR CUTTING INDICATING HUMAN USAGE OF THE INCISORS (MACPHEE, 1988).

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...AEwCw#v=onepage&q=daubentonia robusta&f=false

There's more, I'm sure. But, notwithstanding a level of forensic study not mentioned in these site, nothing precludes the human modifications of these teeth occurring long after the death of the animal as far as I can see.

 

[lordmongrove]

There are reports of 7 foot long 70lb fossas. Possibly a surviving form of the sub-fossil cave fossa.

 

[PeteByrdie]

There are reports of 7 foot long 70lb fossas. Possibly a surviving form of the sub-fossil cave fossa.

That would be a beast to see!

 

[lordmongrove]

Apparently these bigger ones have black fur rather than the russet obn the standard ones.

 

[amyasleigh]

With giant fossas having got into the picture -- the species mentioned also in my 5/1/2012 post "Madagascan mysteries" on the "Cryptozoology - General" forum here -- it's hard to resist a reference from a while ago, which I recently came upon totally by chance on another Net discussion board (one basically about anything-and-everything).

In an essentially whimsical thread about extinct creatures which it would be nice to have back, a poster nominated the giant fossa, describing it in rough and un-zoological terms as "A 6-foot-long man-eating weasel, that reportedly used to crawl into people's homes in the middle of the night." Another responded fancifully, "Would the Fossa be able to lure the people into not being afraid at first by acting kind of cute and cuddly, and then going in for the kill?" Who knows where the chap got the crawling-into-homes-with-predatory-intent thing? -- a quick look around possible sources, including Googling, revealed no support for that.

On a less way-out-there note: as well as the local word antamba for the giant fossa, the Wikipedia g.f. article mentions that some locals speak or have spoken, of a big type of fossa, fossa mainty [black], and a small type, fossa mena [red] -- in accordance with lordmongrove's above post.

 

[oldrover]

Would the Fossa be able to lure the people into not being afraid at first by acting kind of cute and cuddly

Yes they would, I love fossas I've met one and it was one of the loveliest creatures I've ever come across.

Thanks both for the giant fossa info I know we've discussed this before but I'll be looking at it again after this. Not immediately though as tomorrow I have an appointment with a racoon.

 

[PeteByrdie]

Would the Fossa be able to lure the people into not being afraid at first by acting kind of cute and cuddly

Yes they would, I love fossas I've met one and it was one of the loveliest creatures I've ever come across.

Wow! Where was this? I've been dragging my other half around wildlife parks in search of lemurs for years. I'd love to see a fossa.

 

[oldrover]

Altogether six UK zoos keep them. Folly Farm in West Wales, is where I saw mine because it's very close to me. Amyasleigh knows of another zoo which I think is in central England, but whose name I can't remember for the life of me. There's another in Newquay Zoo, but I don't know where the rest are.

When I saw one it was alone in a smallish enclosure pacing back and forth obviously stressed, and there was a big group of foreign tourists, who'd obviously had a few, laughing and mocking it.

After those sods had left though it was just me and the fossa for about 45 minutes, and I have to say it was one of the most memorable experiences I'll ever have. As soon as I started talking to it it climbed up the mesh until we were at eye level and just hung there for ages as I talked nonsense to it. It was an incredibly inquisitive and responsive animal. Very beautiful much more so in real life than in most photos but surprisingly a fair bit smaller than I was expecting.

I like fossas partly as they remind me of the thylacine, sadly I believe that in a few years it's all to likely we'll be having the same sort of conversations about them as we're having about the tyger now.

 

[PeteByrdie]

Altogether six UK zoos keep them. Folly Farm in West Wales, is where I saw mine because it's very close to me. Amyasleigh knows of another zoo which I think is in central England, but whose name I can't remember for the life of me. There's another in Newquay Zoo, but I don't know where the rest are.

Amyasleigh, you're up! I think Africa Alive! has one, but that's a fair trek from me. Do-able, though. And I've been considering it for a couple of years, but I doubt I could drag the missus to the far side of Suffolk. Especially as, from my experience of carnivores in other zoos and wildlife parks, they like to have invisible days.

I like fossas partly as they remind me of the thylacine, sadly I believe that in a few years it's all to likely we'll be having the same sort of conversations about them as we're having about the tyger now.

Sadly, even an optimistic fellow like me fears the worst for the wildlife of Madagascar.

 

[amyasleigh]

My known fossa joint: Marwell Zoo aka Marwell Wildlife, in Hampshire between Winchester and Eastleigh -- www.marwell.org.uk/ . A place which I can't praise too highly -- a variety of interesting and rare (and some more mundane) creatures, in gloriously spacious "keepings", well and devotedly looked after and in excellent condition. Their one fossa (male, I think) looked sleek and very content, as at my last visit.

 

[oldrover]

Marwell! bloody hell.

Sadly, even an optimistic fellow like me fears the worst for the wildlife of Madagascar.

Imagine how a negative sod like me feels.

 

[PeteByrdie]

My known fossa joint: Marwell Zoo aka Marwell Wildlife, in Hampshire between Winchester and Eastleigh -- www.marwell.org.uk/ . A place which I can't praise too highly -- a variety of interesting and rare (and some more mundane) creatures, in gloriously spacious "keepings", well and devotedly looked after and in excellent condition. Their one fossa (male, I think) looked sleek and very content, as at my last visit.

Bless you for responding, amyasleigh. I'll check Marwell out. Perhaps this summer.

Sadly, even an optimistic fellow like me fears the worst for the wildlife of Madagascar.

Imagine how a negative sod like me feels.

Aye! I feels for ya! People are learning, but so, so slowly!