"Give Us Back Our Eleven Days"

[amyasleigh]

This post prompted by a recent exchange on another message board. I had for a long time cherished a tale involving England’s switching in 1752, from the Julian calendar, to the Gregorian calendar which had long obtained in most of Europe. With the two calendars being eleven days out of synch, the adjustment was made by, in 1752, September 2nd being followed immediately by September 14th. Supposedly, many among the less sophisticated citizenry felt aggrieved at this measure, which they viewed as arbitrarily shortening their personal lifetimes by eleven days: whence, protest marches and riots on the theme of “Give Us Back Our Eleven Days !”

Per info exchanged lately as described above, it appears that this thing may be a two-and-a-half-centuries-old urban legend. There are indications that it basically came from a painting, satirising the issue, by Hogarth – including a “Give Us Back...” banner; and from some throwaway comments by Lord Chesterfield, who was the chief initiator of the Calendar Reform Act which led to the “lost” eleven days. The protests-and-riots are stated never to have happened in reality – the tale comes from misapprehensions about the stuff from Hogarth and Chesterfield, which was part of vehement political dispute, and electioneering, at the time. The only back-up I currently have for the aforesaid, is the Wikipedia article on the episode; as we all know, something’s being stated on Wiki is not proof positive that it’s right. Any views / info pro or con the “Give Us Back...” story, would be appreciated.

I first heard the stuff about agitation over this issue by the mob, from teachers in my schooldays: that was fifty-odd years ago, and I don’t remember whether this was purveyed in formal history lessons, or just informally “in passing”. For sure, the people who taught me were very far from omniscient...

I’ve just always loved the idea of people getting angry about having their lives shortened by x days, by governmental fiat – it seemed a beautiful illustration of humans’ strong tendency to be totally convinced, with the utmost seriousness, of completely bonkers things (and compared to many instances of this tendency, a pretty harmless one). It rather looks, however, as though it’s too nice an example of human barminess, to be true.

 

[rynner2]

There may have been more practical reasons for concern than people's fears about lifetimes being "shortened".

If you paid rent quarterly, you'd resent being charged the same amount as a normal quarter for one that was 11 days short! (But probably provision had been made for such cases in the legislation that decree'd the calendar change, in which case it will be well known to professional historians.)

Another anomaly might have involved apprentices - no doubt they'd have been pleased to escape the restrictions of being an apprentice 11 days early!

Similarly, those who were due to come into an inheritance upon attaining a certain age would be only too pleased to get it 11 days sooner!
But I feel that most of these anomalies would have been foreseen and suitable adjustments made in the legislation.

Given the efforts of humourists of any period to poke fun at their society, I can well believe that reports of Protest Marches, etc, when the Calendar changed, were just a comic fiction.

 

[amyasleigh]

The Wiki article states that special measures were taken and enforced, re the unique circumstances of 1752, to adjust matters concerning rent and tax payments so that the payers did not lose out financially.

I admit to feeling disappointed to find that the riots by those seeking rectification for their artificially shortened lives, most probably did not happen. There's an interesting twist on the matter in an alternative-history novel which I like; it's set in England at the end of the 16th century, with the premise that the Armada has succeeded, and England is under Spanish occupation and rule. The Spaniards have replaced the Julian calendar, with the Gregorian. The novel's protagonist is William Shakespeare -- certainly no ignoramus -- and he is described as not feeling totally at ease with this change. "When he looked at things logically, he understood those ten [as it would have been re 1589] days weren't really stolen. When he didn't -- which was, mankind being what it was, more often --he still felt as if he'd had his pocket picked of time."

In the novel, there is of course the factor that the change of calendar was not a choice made by an independent English government, but a thing imposed by a hated foreign conqueror, along with their imposition of a hated different variant of Christianity. In "real history", I gather that the Julian / Gregorian thing in this country, was in part a function of "Northern Ireland syndrome" -- absolutely everything being related to Catholic-versus-Protestant. A large part of England's stubborn keeping to the Julian calendar for so long, was down to mistrust and dislike of the (more accurate) Gregorian calendar, promulgated by Pope Gregory and used by the hostile Catholic nations on the Continent, as something "Popish".

 

[Simon]

I suppose this could go on the conicedences thread as well, but I only read the last entry on this thread just the other day:

http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/28-wor ... 0&start=40

 

[amyasleigh]

"On the button" -- a coincidence, which has coincidentally shown up now -- Shakespeare and Cervantes dying seemingly one day apart; only not so, because of the Julian / Gregorian thing !

With Shakespeare and a Spanish counterpart having been mentioned: I can't resist putting in a "commercial" for the work of alternative history which I allude to upthread. "Ruled Britannia" by Harry Turtledove: IMO an absorbing (and cliff-hanging) read. An important character therein is the prominent Spanish dramatist Lope de Vega, a close contemporary of Shakespeare "in real history". In the novel, de Vega is in England as part of the Spanish army of occupation. He and Shakespeare feature as "friendly enemies" and fellow-litterateurs, each working for his own country, but getting on well together on a personal level.

 

[oldrover]

Until recently, if not still, the people of the Preseli hills in Pembrokshire still celebrated Christmas on the 4th of January and New Years on the 13th.

 

[ramonmercado]

Until recently, if not still, the people of the Preseli hills in Pembrokshire still celebrated Christmas on the 4th of January and New Years on the 13th.

Bet they build Wicker Men as well.

 

[amyasleigh]

I understand that the Russian Orthodox Church still holds to the Julian calendar; so there, as well as in the Preselis, Christmas is in early January. Russia stuck to the Julian calendar in a secular context too, until the Bolshevik revolution of late 1917; which thus occurred in what was October in Russia, but November in the rest of the world.

When Communism triumphed in Russia, the rulers quickly switched to the Gregorian calendar; but made a big publicity / propaganda thing of the event which had set matters in train, as the October -- not the November -- Revolution. As they say in America, "go figure".