Glasgow Rangers' Demise: How to Make Glasgow the new Belfast

[Kellydandodi]

It took longer in Northern Ireland's main city, centuries of tension between the largely Roman Catholic indigenous Irish and Scots Ulsterman gradually fomented by Celtic nationalism in the south and provocative actions on their side and by the UK crown. Then the North and South divide and the subjugation of the largely RC working class and deprived in Belfast and surrounding areas.
As Scotland debates a form of independence, Glasgow's poor and provincial, largely Protestant Rangers Football Club fans are immediately disavowed and disenfranchised their cultural identity. I cannot guess how long it will take, but could Scots unionism take on the same atavistic nature Irish Nationalism did to make its point.
Wild speculation, tasteless conjecture maybe. Its a thought though. Have Scotland's "troubles" just been conceived?

 

[Cavynaut]

Ulster Protestants saw (and maybe still do) themselves as 'backs to the wall', fighting a rearguard action against the rising tide of Irish Nationalism.

The Scottish Protestants and the Scottish Catholics have a common cause: they both dislike the English.

If Rangers don't get back into the SPL, their supporters could always follow Hearts; assuming that football is the only way in which they can express their cultural identity.

 

[Pietro_Mercurios]

...

If Rangers don't get back into the SPL, their supporters could always follow Hearts; assuming that football is the only way in which they can express their cultural identity.

Or, Kilmarnock. :lol:

Somehow, a Scottish League, without Rangers, seems inconceivable. Who would Celtic play?

In the end, they'll bodge something together.

 

[Pietro_Mercurios]

More bad news about Rangers. Criminal investigations have begun.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jun/25/police-conduct-investigation-acquisition-rangers

Police ordered to conduct investigation into acquisition of Rangers

• Investigation follows a preliminary police examination
• Will also take in subsequent financial management of club

guardian.co.uk, Press Association. Monday 25 June 2012

The Crown Office has instructed Strathclyde police to conduct a criminal investigation into the acquisition of Rangers Football Club in May last year and the subsequent financial management of the club.

It said the investigation into "alleged criminality" follows a preliminary police examination of information passed to it in February this year by the club administrators.

The Crown Office said the Procurator Fiscal for the West of Scotland will now work with Strathclyde police to "fully investigate" the acquisition and financial management of Rangers Football Club and any related reports of "alleged criminality" during that process.

 

[McAvennie]

Don't let the Scottish Press see this, they have come up with enough ridiculous notions to try and justify the fudging of rules and the abandonment of sporting integrity in order to save the carcass of the Ibrox club.

No Rangers no Sky deal... confirmed to be a lie by Sky.

No Rangers and the rest of the league will suffer... they managed alright last time the blue side were in the doldrums, in fact two sides reached European finals.

No Rangers and Scotland will turn into a war-zone... that will be the last throw of the dice, whip up a frenzy of fear and hysteria. Though, given that the club's supporters have already attempted a bombing campaign I would be lying if I said I didn't fear some kind of atrocity from their lunatic element should this pan out with no Rangers in any division.

For the cheating, tax-dodging, corruption, financial doping and myriad other misdemeanors yet to be fully exposed - and believe me there is more to come - a three-year spell working up the SFL back to the SPL would barely be a punishment, but IMO that is the only way Scottish football survives with any credibility.

As yet only one man remotely associated with the club has offered up any kind of apology or acceptance that the former club known as Rangers had done anything at all that deserved punishment. The arrogance and bullying continue, and seemingly will continue as they go to their grave kicking and screaming and frothing at the mouth as they try to use 'We Are The People!' as an excuse for all their wrongs.

The best thing to happen for them - and us all - would be for them to restart in the Third Division. Surely even Ally McCoist couldn't fail to get them up through three promotions in three years and they would get back where they feel they belong while having served some form of punishment, the game cleansed and able to forgive them.

However, the argument can then be made that why should Spartans or Cove Rangers or any other amateur side who have paid their bills and tried and tried to gain an SFL place be leapfrogged by a club that has not even been formed officially yet?

Until I see the Aug 4 fixtures with no Rangers I will be wary of a final fudge by the SFA to keep them in the top tier. I won't hold my breath for anyone in the Scottish press to ask the important questions though... like why was Graeme Souness still being paid by the club almost a decade after he left as manager? Did Ally McCoist and Walter Smith have EBT contracts during the past decade seeing as everyone else did? Why exactly did McCoist call for the panel that handed down the transfer ban to be named when RFC's administrators have admitted they had been informed of exactly who was to be on the panel before they sat?

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

For the cheating, tax-dodging, corruption, financial doping and myriad other misdemeanors yet to be fully exposed - and believe me there is more to come - a three-year spell working up the SFL back to the SPL would barely be a punishment, but IMO that is the only way Scottish football survives with any credibility.

Could you elucidate what these other misdemeanours might be?

Also, what notions have the press invented to fudge the rules and abandon sporting integrity?

 

[titch]

I have no love at all for rangers ( or celtic) but i cant help thinking, looking at mc's avatar, that he may just be a tiny bit biased.

 

[McAvennie]

For the cheating, tax-dodging, corruption, financial doping and myriad other misdemeanors yet to be fully exposed - and believe me there is more to come - a three-year spell working up the SFL back to the SPL would barely be a punishment, but IMO that is the only way Scottish football survives with any credibility.

Could you elucidate what these other misdemeanours might be?

Also, what notions have the press invented to fudge the rules and abandon sporting integrity?

The fact that the Crown Office has only yesterday asked Strathclude Police to investigate the takeover by Craig Whyte is surely an alarm bell that there is far more come in the unravelling of the tangled web involving Whyte, David Murray, Wavetower and Murray International Holdings.

The decision by the Court of Session in Edinburgh to order an investigation into the conflict of interest between RFC and their administrators Duff & Phelps - who let us not forget days after the club had been put into administration were actively trying to increase the club's wage bill rather than reduce it by signing Daniel Cousin - suggests that there is more to be uncovered.

We are yet to adequately hear why Graeme Souness, who during the period he was being paid through Rangers EBT system purchased Tugay, Lorenzo Amoruso, Barry Ferguson and Jean Alain Boumsong directly from RFC for a total sum of 18.2 million GBP, was an EBT beneficiary.

The fate and full story of SFA President Campbell Ogilvie is yet to publicly unravel. The RFC club secretary throughout the EBT period, who signed off on the EBT contracts yet claims to have had no knowledge of the system... yet strangely is listed himself as one of the beneficiaries. His move from RFC to the position of SFA President - and his current failure to stand aside or be placed on gardening leave despite the very clear conflict of interest - raises questions already asked without answer by Channel 4's Alex Thomson.

And those are just the threads left to be pulled which are presently in the public domain. So, yes, on a balance of probabilities based on what has already come out during this whole sorry affair I think it is reasonably fair to assume that there is more to come in this catalogue of dishonesty.

And as far as the Scottish media's spin on this I need only direct you to Alex Thomson's insight into sports journalism in the country...

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons ... tions/1010

When you have a former Times sports journalist quoted as saying...

"Succulent lamb journalism means a culture – and I hold my hand up here too – a culture of sycophantic, unquestioning, puff journalism that went on around Rangers generally and Sir David Murray particularly. You are making a pact with the devil if you like. You get thrown the best scraps. You get something for the back page or whatever. But there’s a tacit deal. You don’t dig too deep. You don’t cause any trouble."

...it is a pretty clear indicator of which way the wind is blowing.

Most recently with the tub-thumping ahead of the SPL club's vote on the Newco's admission to the SPL we had this line from the Daily Record...

"SKY TV are poised to tear up their £110million deal to screen Scottish football if Rangers are thrown into the Third Division."

A Sky insider said: “Three years without Rangers, while Rangers climbed from the Third Division to the Second, then the First and then the SPL, would blow the whole deal out of the water. If Rangers are kicked out of the SPL, the longest Sky will wait for them to return is a year. It’s just not worth it commercially if it’s going to be any longer than 12 months with no Old Firm league games while Rangers climb back up the leagues. Four Old Firm games a season is what Sky export around Britain and around the world – that’s what they pay for. No Rangers equals no Sky, unless Gers are back very soon.”

So there you have it, on Jun 14, as SPL club's prepare to decide if they should vote Rangers back into the SPL the Daily Record is scaremongering with quotes from a Sky 'insider' - an unnamed one, an unnamed one who refers to Sky as 'they' rather than 'we', being that he is an insider at Sky apparently.

However, on Jun 17, we have an actual Sky statement explaining: "We have not discussed that possibility, either with the SPL or any other footballing authority. Nor has that been on the agenda for consideration within Sky, despite all the problems and difficulties being faced by Scottish football at present."

Now, with the vote on a return back to the SPL clearly slipping out of the reach of New RFC we have the Daily Record again claiming that an emergency meeting is on the cards to discuss a restructure of the SPL and SFL into larger divisions, which would conveniently see Rangers back in the SPL in just one year.

It is our old friend the unnamed insider again...

One insider said: “It’s rare for an emergency meeting of the board to be called, but it only serves to underline the importance of the issues up for discussion, particularly as newco Rangers could join the First or Third Division next season.

So suddenly Rangers are just going to be parachuted straight into the First Division? Seems fair...

And then, the classic verbal catfight between BBC Radio Scotland's Chick Young and the Daily Record's Jim Traynor. Young accuses Traynor of being "Rangers' puppet", does the journalist defend his integrity and reputation by denying the allegation? You would assume the biggest insult a journalist could face is the questioning of his impartiality. Traynor's response? "Are you jealous, Chick? Has somebody taken your job?"... :shock:

 

[McAvennie]

I have no love at all for rangers ( or celtic) but i cant help thinking, looking at mc's avatar, that he may just be a tiny bit biased.

Yes I am biased towards Celtic's view, and clearly have a low level of sympathy for the club that used to be known as Rangers...

BUT...

How bias can you be against an institution which has...

Cheated the public purse out of at 9 million GBP, and perhaps up to as much as 75 million GBP?

Rangers' tax bill is much greater than the £9m that forced the club into administration, BBC Scotland understands. HMRC documents suggest it owes more than £13m and the bill could rise to £15m by the end of the month.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17146506

After just nine months in charge, Whyte admitted they could not pay their bills – despite mortgaging off £24million of fans’ season ticket cash. He dropped another bombshell by claiming the unpaid tax bill of £49million would be nearer £75million.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scott ... -23748180/

Bought players for agreed sums and then failed to pay for them, while continuing to play these players and in one case selling them for a profit...

WORRIED Hearts chiefs have asked Rangers to settle their £800,000 bill for Lee Wallace immediately – and have offered them a huge discount to get the cash up front. Record Sport can reveal the troubled Tynecastle club are prepared to wipe more than £100,000 off Wallace’s £1.5million price tag so long as the Ibrox club – themselves staring financial disaster in the face – cough up the money in one go.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/s ... -23706756/

* The club that used to be known as Rangers never did pay Hearts the money they were owed. Wallace went on to score and be involved in a highly-controversial red card decision in the final Old Firm game at Ibrox. A game he should never have been playing in.

Rapid Vienna report Rangers to Fifa over Nikica Jelavic debt. The Austrian club is still owed £1,011,763.44 from the £4 million sale of Croatia striker Nikica Jelavic in the summer of 2010 and have requested the assistance of Uefa and Fifa.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... -debt.html

So that is over a million pounds the former RFC owe Vienna for Jelavic. Surely not the same Jelavic who, while still not fully having paid for him, they sold on for over 5 million pounds?

Everton sign striker Nikica Jelavic from Rangers. Everton have signed Croatia international striker Nikica Jelavic from Rangers for £5.5m.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16783119

Used an EBT scheme in order to avoid paying tax on wages to players, thus allowing them since 2000 to sign players who usually would be way beyond their means and thus helping them to win numerous Leagues, Cups and potentially depriving teams of European places. Other teams who paid their taxes and lived within their means.

French international Jean-Alain Boumsong: "My salary was normally paid but there was a trust. I was not comfortable with that to be honest. I didn’t know anything about it until the day I was going to sign. When I discovered it I first refused to sign the contract and said, ‘What is this?’ I didn’t want to sign because it seemed strange, we don’t have that kind of payment in France and I didn’t know anything about it. When I left Rangers, for example, to sign for Newcastle, it was for a normal contract with normal payment."
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/s ... -23897491/

Have a manager who made a veiled call to arms to the lunatic element of the old RFC support in order to intimidate and expose the SFA panel in charge of handing out their punishment, even though the club had already been informed of the panel's identity...

Scottish FA sanctions could kill Rangers - Ally McCoist
"Who are these people? I want to know who these people are," added McCoist. "I'm a Rangers supporter and the Rangers supporters and the Scottish public deserve to know who these people are, people who are working for the SFA. "Make no mistake about it, this is an SFA decision. They have appointed the panel so therefore they are working for the SFA, but who are they? "I think we have a right to know who is handing out this punishment to us, I really do."

Lo, and behold, a short while later...

Trio who ruled on Rangers named... and threatened
In a worrying development on Wednseday night, it was reported Strathclyde Police have given security advice to the trio. In a statement, the SFA lamented a “wholly irresponsible betrayal of confidential information” that had left the panel at risk. An SFA spokesperson said: “We are deeply concerned that the safety and security of judicial panel members appointed to a recent tribunal has been compromised by a wholly irresponsible betrayal of confidential information. “The judicial panel consists of volunteers from across the spectrum of sport and business in Scotland. They are appointed on the basis of anonymity yet all three panel members have reported intrusion into their personal and work lives, including abusive and threatening communication.

But wait, what is this? It was later confirmed that Rangers already knew who was on the panel? Surely not an attempt to bully and intimidate the panel into going easy on Rangers (RIP)?

But, yeh, I could be just being bias and paranoid...

Really, I could go on all day with their crimes and misdemeanors but I suspect nobody here is really interested.

 

[titch]

Nope i am very interested, so please don't stop posting.Plenty food for thought there.

 

[mrsbobbins]

I always find this an interesting read.

http://top50honestmistakes.blogspot.co.uk/

It was obvious that the number of "honest mistakes" was increasing as Rangers need for money increased. Winning the league = entry to the Champions League group stages = money to keep the bandwagon rolling and the wolf from the door.

Celtic fans were often labelled paranoid when voicing concerns about the standard of refereeing in the SPL, especially in games involving Rangers.

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

Nope i am very interested, so please don't stop posting.Plenty food for thought there.

Oh, don't encourage him, you don't have the time. :lol:

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

I always find this an interesting read.

http://top50honestmistakes.blogspot.co.uk/

It was obvious that the number of "honest mistakes" was increasing as Rangers need for money increased. Winning the league = entry to the Champions League group stages = money to keep the bandwagon rolling and the wolf from the door.

Celtic fans were often labelled paranoid when voicing concerns about the standard of refereeing in the SPL, especially in games involving Rangers.

I think it's fair to say that 'paranoid' is not an adequate enough label to describe that site.

 

[McAvennie]

I always find this an interesting read.

http://top50honestmistakes.blogspot.co.uk/

It was obvious that the number of "honest mistakes" was increasing as Rangers need for money increased. Winning the league = entry to the Champions League group stages = money to keep the bandwagon rolling and the wolf from the door.

Celtic fans were often labelled paranoid when voicing concerns about the standard of refereeing in the SPL, especially in games involving Rangers.

Well, the 'honest mistakes' down the years are coming back with interest... Seems the SFL clubs are none too keen on bending over backwards to let them waltz straight in if Raith Rovers' statement is a sign of a more general feeling outwith the SPL. If you step on people on the way up you can't expect them to put out their arms to catch you on the way down it seems.

Shame. :lol:

 

[McAvennie]

Nope i am very interested, so please don't stop posting.Plenty food for thought there.

Oh, don't encourage him, you don't have the time. :lol:

You were the one who requested further reading... but, I'm pretty sure nobody is forcing you to click on this thread and read its contents.

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

Nope i am very interested, so please don't stop posting.Plenty food for thought there.

Oh, don't encourage him, you don't have the time. :lol:

You were the one who requested further reading... but, I'm pretty sure nobody is forcing you to click on this thread and read its contents.

No, I requested clarification of a couple of claims you made which you tried to substantiate, that's all. In response to Titch I was referring more to the general zeal and partiality of the subsequent post.

 

[McAvennie]

Nope i am very interested, so please don't stop posting.Plenty food for thought there.

Oh, don't encourage him, you don't have the time. :lol:

You were the one who requested further reading... but, I'm pretty sure nobody is forcing you to click on this thread and read its contents.

No, I requested clarification of a couple of claims you made which you tried to substantiate, that's all. In response to Titch I was referring more to the general zeal and partiality of the subsequent post.

Implication being that you find fault or dispute with the points raised...?

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

Implication being that you find fault or dispute with the points raised...?

Well, you said there was more to come. What your referred to is already in the public domain.

Also, you said that the press were coming up with enough ridiculous notions to try and justify the fudging of rules and the abandonment of sporting integrity in order to save the carcass of the Ibrox club. The quote you've given was in one paper but that aside it's unsubstantiated what its motive is. Journalists like to shift newspapers and sensational headlines always sell. Also, the notion was hardly invented since SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster is on record as stating at the time of the deal's proposal that Rangers and Celtic both had to be in the league as a precondition.

There's also the comments about Jim Traynor, who helped break the story about Whyte's Ticketus deal. Traynor's dismissal of Young was as entertaining as it was accurate. He hardly needed to justify himself.

I'd be wary of quoting Alex Thomson, by the way. He's already made a bit of a fool of himself confusing spoof websites for real ones and he's had to apologise only today for a tweet which offends the families of the Ibrox disaster.

 

[McAvennie]

Implication being that you find fault or dispute with the points raised...?

Well, you said there was more to come. What your referred to is already in the public domain.

I don't recall saying it wasn't in the public domain. I said there was more to come on issues that haven't been fully exposed, which as I explained there quite clearly is. And that is without going into the hints and rumours to be gleaned from sites such as 'Rangers Tax Case' - which have been ahead of the mainstream press countless times already on this story.

Also, you said that the press were coming up with enough ridiculous notions to try and justify the fudging of rules and the abandonment of sporting integrity in order to save the carcass of the Ibrox club. The quote you've given was in one paper but that aside it's unsubstantiated what its motive is. Journalists like to shift newspapers and sensational headlines always sell. Also, the notion was hardly invented since SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster is on record as stating at the time of the deal's proposal that Rangers and Celtic both had to be in the league as a precondition.

The Daily Record is the main tub-thumper for the Rangers agenda, and yes sensational headlines do sell, and yes the DR and other elements of the Scottish press will spoon-feed followers of the former RFC exactly what they want to read... As for Doncaster, well, see your own comment about Alex Thomson for instructions of what to do with his statements...

There's also the comments about Jim Traynor, who helped break the story about Whyte's Ticketus deal. Traynor's dismissal of Young was as entertaining as it was accurate. He hardly needed to justify himself.

So it was said partly in jest, yet, he made no attempt to deny Young's claim. Despite earlier in the same exchange having his hackles raised enough to imply legal action over Young's claim that the Daily Record had lied. So call my paper a liar and we will sue, call me a Rangers puppet and it is all laughs and jokes. Given that Traynor is the very auteur that penned the 'succulent lamb' line it doesn't take much to get an idea where his loyalty lies.

I'd be wary of quoting Alex Thomson, by the way. He's already made a bit of a fool of himself confusing spoof websites for real ones and he's had to apologise only today for a tweet which offends the families of the Ibrox disaster.

Well, wariness mode applied, but, I will still put more faith in the words of a respected journalist with global experience and an outside observer's untainted eye than any of the insular Scottish sports press. Thomson has already dug deeper and asked more pertinent questions in just 4 months than all of the combined Scottish sports press have done in the year and a bit since Craig Whyte took over.

Rather than picking up on 'spoof website' stories how about reacting to the relevant link where Thomson exposes the inner workings of the Scottish sports press with regard to RFC 1872-2012 - a situation that has more than helped get them into the position they ended up in.

And as for the John Greig walking away twitter 'scandal' only the most bluenosed of observers would see that as a deliberate attempt to offend the memory of the Ibrox disaster. The joke derives from Ally McCoist's 'walking away' quote, given the amount of fans, bidders, players and assorted other parties who have walked away from Ibrox the joke is that eventually even the statue outside of the stadium will walk away. Yes, offence can be found if you look hard enough for it, but then that really depends on the colour of the beholder's eye...

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

Implication being that you find fault or dispute with the points raised...?

Well, you said there was more to come. What your referred to is already in the public domain.

I don't recall saying it wasn't in the public domain. I said there was more to come on issues that haven't been fully exposed, which as I explained there quite clearly is.

And that is without going into the hints and rumours to be gleaned from sites such as 'Rangers Tax Case' - which have been ahead of the mainstream press countless times already on this story.

Also, you said that the press were coming up with enough ridiculous notions to try and justify the fudging of rules and the abandonment of sporting integrity in order to save the carcass of the Ibrox club. The quote you've given was in one paper but that aside it's unsubstantiated what its motive is. Journalists like to shift newspapers and sensational headlines always sell. Also, the notion was hardly invented since SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster is on record as stating at the time of the deal's proposal that Rangers and Celtic both had to be in the league as a precondition.

The Daily Record is the main tub-thumper for the Rangers agenda, and yes sensational headlines do sell, and yes the DR and other elements of the Scottish press will spoon-feed followers of the former RFC exactly what they want to read... As for Doncaster, well, see your own comment about Alex Thomson for instructions of what to do with his statements...

There's also the comments about Jim Traynor, who helped break the story about Whyte's Ticketus deal. Traynor's dismissal of Young was as entertaining as it was accurate. He hardly needed to justify himself.

So it was said partly in jest, yet, he made no attempt to deny Young's claim. Despite earlier in the same exchange having his hackles raised enough to imply legal action over Young's claim that the Daily Record had lied. So call my paper a liar and we will sue, call me a Rangers puppet and it is all laughs and jokes. Given that Traynor is the very auteur that penned the 'succulent lamb' line it doesn't take much to get an idea where his loyalty lies.

I'd be wary of quoting Alex Thomson, by the way. He's already made a bit of a fool of himself confusing spoof websites for real ones and he's had to apologise only today for a tweet which offends the families of the Ibrox disaster.

Well, wariness mode applied, but, I will still put more faith in the words of a respected journalist with global experience and an outside observer's untainted eye than any of the insular Scottish sports press. Thomson has already dug deeper and asked more pertinent questions in just 4 months than all of the combined Scottish sports press have done in the year and a bit since Craig Whyte took over.

Rather than picking up on 'spoof website' stories how about reacting to the relevant link where Thomson exposes the inner workings of the Scottish sports press with regard to RFC 1872-2012 - a situation that has more than helped get them into the position they ended up in.

And as for the John Greig walking away twitter 'scandal' only the most bluenosed of observers would see that as a deliberate attempt to offend the memory of the Ibrox disaster. The joke derives from Ally McCoist's 'walking away' quote, given the amount of fans, bidders, players and assorted other parties who have walked away from Ibrox the joke is that eventually even the statue outside of the stadium will walk away. Yes, offence can be found if you look hard enough for it, but then that really depends on the colour of the beholder's eye...

Well, Thomson saw fit to apologise so I'll assume that you consider him to be a bluenose. :lol:

Joking aside if a statue erected in memory of the Hillsborough victims had been used in this way it would probably be on the 6 O'Clock News tonight.

Undoubtedly the Scottish press have been too indulgent of Murray. In fact, it's probably one area where you'd be in agreement with the most diehard of Rangers fans.

By the way, Rangers Football Club is still in existence. Technically it's the holding company which is dead but the history, various titles and so forth still remain for the time being.

Also, are you accusing Neil Doncaster of outright lies about the Sky deal? Why didn't Sky contradict him at the time? Or are you getting confused with Stewart Regan (and his spat with Alex Thomson)?

 

[McAvennie]

The whole 'It is not Rangers who have been liquidated but the company that owns them' is a convenient twisting of the fabric of truth. In other cases of liquidated clubs that have reformed, Aldershot, Accrington Stanley, Maidstone United, Halifax Town etc..., the club has died with the company.

Much like the taking of offence with the Greig picture, this will ultimately depend on your view. To ex-RFC fans whatever incarnation eventually emerges from this sorry mess will be seen by them as the same club. Fans of other club's - and Wikipedia - will refuse to cow-tow and will look at pre-2012 Rangers as a former Scottish football club.

It is the Trigger's Broom scenario, this is the exact same club that was founded in 1872, only had the holding company changed three times, official name changed twice, registration with the SFA passed around like a parcel at a kid's party... but still the same club.

As for Doncaster, I can see his stance and that is that for the best interests, i.e. finances, of the SPL they need Rangers... However, that flies in the face of what the vast majority of fans, and a fair few former Rangers fans as well, want to see. He is a money man and in my eyes something of a joke figure, completely out of touch with what is going on.

His SPL have yet to pass a verdict in the investigation into unmistakeable sectarian singing in the former football club Rangers' first game post administration way back in February.

We are still waiting for the now-delayed report into RFC's dual contract issue...

Several times during this fiasco when Scottish football observers have been crying out for direction and a voice of authority he has been away off on holiday and uncontactable.

His appearances on Newsnight have made him look startlingly uninformed, confusing the consequences of Rangers being given a CVA and Rangers being liquidated and reformed as a new club, for example.

As for the TV deal, please correct me if I am wrong, I may have missed this in all the daily hoop-la surrounding the RFC circus, but his statement was thus:

"We’ve got a new deal starting this summer, which has yet to be signed. The detail of the agreement is yet to be seen but, yes, the current contract has a clause which says Rangers and Celtic must play each other four times a season. But that comes to an end at the end of this season." - May 1, 2012

Since then SKY have come out and stated that they will not be 'walking away' from Scottish football. My view of Doncaster is that his prime objective is to protect the finances and marketability of the SPL - and that requires keeping RFC in it. Thus, he will state things in a way that suits that agenda but as has been seen he is not quite smart enough to keep ahead of the tide of events and has been shown up already several times.

And Regan lost all credibility when he was tweeting about having forgotten his umbrella on a trip to Amsterdam or somewhere on the day that something fairly major broke relating to RFC, I forget what now, there has been so many big newsbreaks and 48-hour deadlines to follow.

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

The whole 'It is not Rangers who have been liquidated but the company that owns them' is a convenient twisting of the fabric of truth. In other cases of liquidated clubs that have reformed, Aldershot, Accrington Stanley, Maidstone United, Halifax Town etc..., the club has died with the company.

Much like the taking of offence with the Greig picture, this will ultimately depend on your view. To ex-RFC fans whatever incarnation eventually emerges from this sorry mess will be seen by them as the same club. Fans of other club's - and Wikipedia - will refuse to cow-tow and will look at pre-2012 Rangers as a former Scottish football club.

It is the Trigger's Broom scenario, this is the exact same club that was founded in 1872, only had the holding company changed three times, official name changed twice, registration with the SFA passed around like a parcel at a kid's party... but still the same club.

On the contrary Wikipedia and UEFA acknowledge Fiorentina's history and titles...

http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/tea ... index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACF_Fiorentina

...but you're right it does depend how you choose to see it. Celtic fans will take a different view as it would allow them to claim to be Scotland's most successful club without having really had to earn it. That title will probably pass to them anyway given the likelihood of championships being swapped from the last decade and their unopposed run to championships in the immediate future.

It should be remembered, though, that for all the financial doping that went on Celtic were still largely outspending Rangers (including the final title win in 2011 when the EBT's were no longer in use) during this period which is why the mania about refereeing was neccessary to explain away the various title defeats, I suppose.

Essentially it's a matter for the SFA. Of course, given the way they handed Rangers a draconian and arbitrary punishment that they were not legally entitled to you could argue they'll seek to try and kill off Rangers in whatever way they can or that they'll try and keep Rangers alive whatever way they can by applying the laws in any way they see fit. You pay your money you choose your crazy theory.

Whoever headhunted Regan does need to be called to account, though.

I have to be honest and say it's a bit steep to dismiss the offence at the Greig picture, however, not least as there's so much faux sanctimony about integrity doing the rounds. That event scarred many, many people in Glasgow and even though there's been the odd occasion where Celtic fans have sung through the annual minute's silence at Ibrox it's generally regarded as an event which brought together fans in a common humanity. Anyone who has ever spent real time around Glasgow would understand that there is great sensitivity to it.

As for Doncaster, I can see his stance and that is that for the best interests, i.e. finances, of the SPL they need Rangers... However, that flies in the face of what the vast majority of fans, and a fair few former Rangers fans as well, want to see. He is a money man and in my eyes something of a joke figure, completely out of touch with what is going on.

His SPL have yet to pass a verdict in the investigation into unmistakeable sectarian singing in the former football club Rangers' first game post administration way back in February.

We are still waiting for the now-delayed report into RFC's dual contract issue...

His SPL also let Celtic off the hook back in November despite accepting that Celtic fans were indulging in pro-terrorist chants the issue having to be raised by police, remember, so it's not like he's being partial or is particularly stringent on this front.

Also, it's understandable that no verdict has been given on dual contracts yet since HMRC haven't even been able to determine that issue. It's a legal minefield which could lead to all sorts of claims against the SPL if they make the wrong decision.

As for the TV deal, please correct me if I am wrong, I may have missed this in all the daily hoop-la surrounding the RFC circus, but his statement was thus:

"We’ve got a new deal starting this summer, which has yet to be signed. The detail of the agreement is yet to be seen but, yes, the current contract has a clause which says Rangers and Celtic must play each other four times a season. But that comes to an end at the end of this season." - May 1, 2012

Since then SKY have come out and stated that they will not be 'walking away' from Scottish football. My view of Doncaster is that his prime objective is to protect the finances and marketability of the SPL - and that requires keeping RFC in it. Thus, he will state things in a way that suits that agenda but as has been seen he is not quite smart enough to keep ahead of the tide of events and has been shown up already several times.

From 22/11/11:

Chief executive Neil Doncaster commented on the new deal:

"Sky Sports and ESPN are two of the biggest names in sports broadcasting and the SPL has enjoyed an excellent relationship with both broadcasters over the course of the current contract, a period which has seen a 28% increase in viewing figures."

“Old Firm involvement had to be guaranteed, but that’s been the case for a number of years. It’s the case with all of the major sponsorships we enter into.

Managing director, Barney Francis of Sky Sports, stated:

"We're delighted to agree this deal with the SPL and continue our partnership with Scottish football that began 20 years ago. This long-term agreement means Sky Sports viewers can continue to enjoy coverage of 30 live matches a season, including each Old Firm head-to-head, across TV, mobile, online and tablet devices."

http://www.footballtradedirectory.com/n ... eltic.html

And Regan lost all credibility when he was tweeting about having forgotten his umbrella on a trip to Amsterdam or somewhere on the day that something fairly major broke relating to RFC, I forget what now, there has been so many big newsbreaks and 48-hour deadlines to follow.

I'm not sure he ever had any credibility.

 

[McAvennie]

Ah, the Fiorentina example...

The whataboutery...

Nice try, but the majority of your arguments are all classic Bluenose responses to the facts of this saga. Only one missing for the bingo is the erroneous claim that Celtic went bust in 1994

My colours are nailed to the mast and so I shall step out now from this debate and just sit back in my deckchair for the summer and enjoy watching the drama unfold...

Who will be the last 'we don't do walking away' Ranger to walk away...?
Who will they be able to afford to buy in to replace their first team, if anyone at all...?
Which division, if any, will they even be admitted to...?
How will they get a team together, in just five weeks, capable of challenging for the Division 3 title...?
Will they shamelessly murder Cowdenbeath FC in a last-ditch bid to save themselves from total capitulation...?

The future's bright...! Hail Hail!

:lol: