Hiding Under The Covers

[GNC]

It's a cliché now, but is hiding under the covers of one's bed a reliable way of protecting oneself against the supernatural? Has anyone tried it since childhood?

 

[stu neville]

Dunno about the supernatural, but it does a fair fist of protecting one from too much exposure to an 11.00 pm repeat of the O.C. that an otherwise intelligent and discerning woman I live with seems to find essential viewing.

A duvet affords 100% protection from subsequent retinal damage, and partial protection of the inner ear from excruciating whiny self-obsessed dialogue.

Actually, back on topic, I genuinely did find myself instinctively hiding under the duvet following a very, very vivid nightmare a few weeks ago. I guess it's something to do with wanting to retreat back into the womb.

 

[Suzie1980]

Anytime I've had an episode of sleep paralysis I have always instinctively pulled the covers over my head.

I also would never lie with a hand or foot outside the bed- I don't know why... in case the 'thing' under the bed grabs it or something??

 

[paganfrog]

i am mature in years but find hiding under the bed covers a perfect remedy after watching creepy films and finding myself freaked out all of a sudden at night. i dont do this very often these days as i bedshare and feel safe lol.
at the moment however, i am in another room tending to my baby at night.
the other night i had watched the grudge (ju-on) and then subsequently went to bed. of course i then get the middle of the night horrors and hid under the covers, but then an image from the film came into my mind and i didnt feel very safe.
:shock:

 

[Min Bannister]

It clearly works or we wouldn't all be here. Certainly worked for me anyway.

 

[escargot]

Nope. I have never hidden under the covers. Makes much more sense to lie on one's back, eyes wide open, making a regular visual sweeps. Until the early hours. Or until your Mum wakes you up for school.

These days, there is usually a Jack Russell and at least one cat on the bed so I figure that in the worst-case monster scenario, they'll get eaten first.

 

[Slejpner]

I find I suffocate under the covers so never do it.

 

[GNC]

Actually, back on topic, I genuinely did find myself instinctively hiding under the duvet following a very, very vivid nightmare a few weeks ago. I guess it's something to do with wanting to retreat back into the womb.

Funny how in Hollywood movies and TV if a character wakes from a nightmare they'll always sit bolt upright in bed, eyes staring wide, perhaps with even a full-throated "NOOOOO!" for effect. But in real life, if I ever have a nightmare I hide under the covers until I've gone back to sleep and I'm sure that's what most people do.

 

[escargot]

I find I suffocate under the covers so never do it.

So, you're dead, then?

 

[WhistlingJack]

Isn't hiding under the covers supposed to be a surefire way to thwart hungry vampires?

 

[Mister_Awesome]

Paraphrasing heavily (except the last line, which I'm fairly sure is a quote!) from Stephen King appearing on Jay Leno about a decade back.

Stephen: When I was a kid I was terrified of monsters. I'd pull the covers right up to my chin and knew that if an inch of flesh below my head was exposed, the monsters would eat me.

Jay: Why wouldn't they just eat your head?

Stephen: (smiling) Well, Jay, you don't eat dessert first!

 

[Dingo667]

When I saw the ghost bending down with dead eyes staring at me, I pulled the cover over my head and made bloody well sure that there weren't any gaps. Stangely enough, nothing more happened, so it must work.

 

[Slejpner]

I find I suffocate under the covers so never do it.

So, you're dead, then?

Yup. Several times. It's becoming a pain.

 

[mindalai]

I'm of the lights-on-and-have-a-good-look-round school. I've never seen anything scary yet so it's working for me.

 

[DafadxDdu]

Funny how in Hollywood movies and TV if a character wakes from a nightmare they'll always sit bolt upright in bed, eyes staring wide, perhaps with even a full-throated "NOOOOO!" for effect. But in real life, if I ever have a nightmare I hide under the covers until I've gone back to sleep and I'm sure that's what most people do.

I did once suddenly wake in the middle of the night, sit bolt upright, and gasp. No screams or "nooooooooo" or such though I seem to recall the dream was about some evil clowns chasing me down the street in front of my house (what was the movie? "Evil Clowns from Outerspace" who wrapped people up in pink cottoncandy and then liquified them, eating them through a straw? I'm certain the nightmare was based on that :lol: ). I don't know what I did after, but probably hid under the covers.

I still do now, though I can manage having my arms out and above me on the bed, but I can't let my feet hang off. I might have a leg from under the duvet, but I find after about ten minutes, my resolve goes and I have to hide again, despite not sleeping alone.

Any time I watch a scary movie, I have to hide. "The Ring" freaked me out most though, because even if I hid, I got images in my mind from the movie and still felt scared.

 

[HelzAngel]

Isn't hiding under the covers supposed to be a surefire way to thwart hungry vampires?

worked for me, they never once got me

 

[OldTimeRadio]

It's a cliché now, but is hiding under the covers of one's bed a reliable way of protecting oneself against the supernatural? Has anyone tried it since childhood?

Yes, I've done it from childhood on. Under the covers with just my nose sticking out.

Surely all Forteans are aware of the Old Occult Law that monsters aren't permitted to attack just noses?

P. S. On broilingly-hot summer nights I'll use a light, thin dish towel or something similar draped across my head.

 

[again6]

Cannot have the feet out ! Something horribly vulnerable-feeling about having the feet out.

In fact, even though I do hospital-corners each morning while making the bed, the first thing I do when I get into bed at night is destroy the neatness by tugging the top sheet and duvet loose and wrapping them all around the feet. Have to feel the safety of bedding all around the feet. Can't stand for there to be one little open gap. I can feel if there's a gap and know that IT is going to reach through that gap. So round and round the feet with the covers until they're completely cocooned and safe. And that's even with my husband lying a few inches away.

However, when I wake up in the morning with the sun streaming in, I invariably discover that at least one leg is hanging over the edge of the bed and that doesn't bother me at all -- enjoy the freedom in fact.

So it's something about darkness and fear of exposing the feet.

When people are terrified, they often draw their feet and legs as close to the body as possible. I've read this is to protect the vital organs, which sounds reasonable.

But in common with most, I've been terrified on occasion and I have drawn my feet and legs as close as humanly possible and I also remember bending my toes down and under as well. So in many instances, I feel people draw up their feet not so much to protect vital organs, but to prevent someone/something from grabbing the feet ! And the toe curling is to minimise the size of the foot (in my opinion) so that the attacker will have less to grab.

That's why many horror movies fail to terrify. They have the heroine sitting up from the waist, in bed, with her hands supporting her on either side, or bunched up in front of her chest or covering her face. But where are her feet? That's right. Her legs are extended full length and her feet are way down there, near the foot of the bed. It looks unconvincing and even though we may not notice all this at conscious level, our subconscious recognises that she is not terrified, but only pretending to be. So we're not frightened by the scene. Usually, the background music is ten times more frightening than the actress.

In real life, when we're scared, we most often do not scream. Instead, real terror causes most of us to inhale or suck in our breath with a ghastly sound. We don't have our eyes wide open. Instead, real terror causes us usually to squint and back away -- to tuck our chins into our chest.

But most of all, real terror causes us to scrabble animalistically towards the headboard, or to get our back against a wall or barrier of some kind. And we contort our bodies in order to draw our feet as far under our bodies as possible. It's not a good defensive position. It puts us off balance and prevents swift escape. But we do it instinctively. So there's an instinctive need to protect the feet.

But why? I've always wondered if it's because when we were born, we were lifted aloft by the feet (weren't we?). It must be a massive shock to a newborn. Or perhaps there's another reason for the almost universal fear of having the feet grasped ?

I read somewhere, in connection with Carlos Castanada, that altered states can be achieved through lying face down with the feet extended from the mid shin down, over the edge of the bed. I think you have to go to sleep also. As an experiment and out of curiosity, I've still only been game to try it during bright sunny days, for a short while. And I haven't allowed myself to fall asleep.

As far as covers over the head -- no. Only if something was right there and I knew it wasn't a dream and there was no-one to help, would I hide under the covers and wait for 'the end'. Otherwise, even though I've pulled the covers right up to my nose, I've always had my eyes uncovered --- because otherwise, how could you try to avert the 'terror' (whatever it may be) ?

Under the covers is signing-off and leaving it to fate and I don't trust fate all that much. Under the covers renders you defenceless, vulnerable. You need to be able to see whatever it is and need to have your hands ready to fight it.

And under the covers drags out the terror as you wait, blindly, for the worst to happen.

Hiding under the covers always seemed stupid to me, even as a child. IT can still see you and get you. Covers are too like a shroud or burial.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

As far as covers over the head -- no....because otherwise, how could you try to avert the 'terror' (whatever it may be)? Under the covers is signing-off and leaving it to fate and I don't trust fate all that much. Under the covers renders you defenceless, vulnerable. You need to be able to see whatever it is and need to have your hands ready to fight it. And under the covers drags out the terror as you wait, blindly, for the worst to happen.
Hiding under the covers always seemed stupid to me, even as a child. IT can still see you and get you.

I believe that most of us who seek refuge under the covers operate from a premise that It has to see at least a bit of our flesh (save the nose, as stated above) to become operative. Moreover, there's a sort of reverse symbiotic relationship functioning here - the Monsters can't see us if we can't see them. That's why so many of us made eye-pads out of the sheets and blankets when we were kids.

Covers are too like a shroud or burial.

That never occurred to me before, and I have a life-long horror of cerements and burial clothes.

 

[again6]

the Monsters can't see us if we can't see them

Yes, I remember instinctively believing this as a young child, huddling and squealing with a sibling under a blanket (wonder if the fact Michael Jackson named his child Blanket is associated in some strange way with this?)

But I think my naive trust in the blanket-as-invisibility-cloak was shattered early on by a real-life monster in the form of a parent who, in drunken rage, repeatedly tore the covers from me late one night in order to deliver a thrashing which extended to the entire terrified family and included the dog (which was not safe either, even though it cowered under the house). Thus I learned that covers offered no protection.

Little distinction in the mind of the terrorised, between real-life and otherworldly ghouls.

As an older child, I went through a period during which a malignant presence visited me several times a week, usually between 2 and 3 a.m.

I would awaken knowing it was there. It was tall, female, powerful, cloaked, hooded and silent. There are those who've experienced similar and therefore know these things are real. Those who've never experienced it cannot, will not be persuaded as to the reality, so I won't waste any time attempting to do so .... I'm on limited coffee break.

Now those who operate in the belief: if we can't see the monsters, nor can they see us, are no doubt obeying a survival instinct that's possibly hard-wired in the species and has stood the test of time. There's something to it, in other words.

After all, we don't decide to laugh or cry or scream -- we just do, automatically/instinctively, all of us, worldwide. Similarly, people of every race and creed will, in terror, fall to the ground, pull their arms over their heads, close their eyes, tuck their faces into their chests, draw up their legs and effectively close themselves off from what is occurring around them. Same principle as hiding under the covers in the belief/hope that they will in this way be rendered invisible and safe - will be spared, like islands in the storm.

Playing-dead though, is another option. And possibly it, too, is hard-wired. Playing-dead was what I did when I awoke to find the cloaked figure standing hard up by my bed and looming over me in the darkness. I saw it. There was a window on the other side of the room and the figure was silhouetted black against the lesser-black of night.

Probably more accurate to say I played-asleep, rather than dead.

How does a child know it must continue the same breathing rate as when asleep, when that child's heart is thumping in its chest ? How does a child know it must occasionally make little grunts and movements, so as to simulate sleep?

Nerves stretched like wire, I knew I must continue the charade of 'sleeping child' until dawn began lighting the sky. It was agony. No movement, other than those a genuinely sleeping child would make. As the silence stretched on I mentally rehearsed my next 'natural movement', before groaning a little and stretching a leg, for instance. I knew I had to do it, otherwise the figure would know by my immobility that I was awake and aware of its presence. Yet each time I faked one of those 'natural' leg stretches or little arm movements, I was terrified the figure would see through the pretence and would leap on me. The tension in my body was extreme, because the faked limb movements provided no real release. Every nerve and sinew screamed for action, but I had to hold it under control, so great was the fear.

I couldn't run or scream for help. The figure was right above me. I couldn't have escaped or evaded it and no-one would have been able to come to my rescue in time. I knew somehow that the body was immaterial; it was what the body contained that It wanted and that theft would be so swift; microseconds.

As an adult, I've pondered the way in which we know on some level that these otherworldly entities are quite stupid, or limited.

The monster's in the room. Quick, hide under the blanket.

The monster's next to my bed again. Quick, pretend you're still asleep.

Doesn't make sense, does it ? Wouldn't work in the real-world : ' A man's rushing at us with a big knife. Quick, hide under the blankets'. Followed by slaaaaaaaash ! blood. pain. screams.

So I think what we actually know or sense is that these entities are powerless until we acknowledge them.

The covers are a prop; a tangible demonstration (for our own benefit as much as anything) of our refusal to acknowledge, as in: ' I am ignoring you, see. My covers are over my head. I do not see you, therefore you do not exist. You cannot get me. Cannot hurt me '.

As an adult, I experienced proof of the power of refusal to acknowledge. We lived in a house that turned out to be a zoo of paranormal entities. I suspect now it was a vortex or portal. Glad we finally left there.

The focal point for the energies was the small hallway connecting the bedrooms to the living areas. Took a while to work that out, because members of the family were concealing their experiences from each other.

On three or four different occasions, while I was vacuuming the hallway (vacuum cleaners and other electrical items feature for some reason in my paranormal experiences) I would suddenly feel It. I'm a chirpy person; invariably hum and my mind is always whirring away as I work. It cut right through that like a knife through butter. The hallway was filled with stiff air (best description I can think of at the mo). Or if you envisage that shimmery-air thing from the Terminator, it will give an idea, although nothing of the sort happened. I was not alone.

At that point, the mind is working simultaneously on at least two levels: (1) you know you're physically alone in your hallway. The sun is shining. Birdies are chirping outside. (2) you are not alone. Something/s are there. They are focussing on you. They are malignant. You are in danger.

Choices: Run screaming and escape.

Mind says NO. If you acknowledge them, you're a gonner. Pretend unawareness. Continue as if you don't know.

So there it is. With a physical assailant, you can fight or flee or freeze.

With a non-physical assailant/s, the rules change. In order to flee, you must pretend ignorance of the assailant's presence. Because NO physical body is possibly fast enough to carry that mind and soul out of reach.

So, filled with a dread that almost paralyses mind and body, I pretended unawareness of the things in the stiff air. I continued humming, only this time it was a little religious hymn from childhood Sunday School. Kept moving the vacuum cleaner wand from side to side. See, here I am. The dumb housewife. Vacuuming the floor. Humming mindlessly. She can't see you. She doesn't know you're there. She's going now. Further and further down the hallway towards the living room. Hum hum. Da de dah.

The living room end of the hallway was the region in which the paranormal experiences began and finished.

Once I made it down to the end, I continued the charade, my heart hammering in my chest and still filled with fear so great I felt like a bathful of adrenalin. I put down the vacuum cleaner and (for the benefit of the entities) said aloud something like: ' Ah. That's good. Finished the cleaning thank goodness. Think I'll make myself a cup of tea now. And I'd better go out and see if the washing's dry'.

There is comfort in the sound of one's own voice in such situations.

Once out of the hallway, I was fine. Went outside into the sunshine -- so thankful to be there.

So, not hiding under the covers, but hiding behind a pretence of ignorance and unawareness. Which is what the covers symbolise, no doubt.

If we acknowledge It, we create a gap in our defences, I suspect. The acknowledgement creates fear, which further renders us defenceless at the same time it provides access to It. Basically, the acknowledgement and fear open the door for It to enter and control.

So some of the Its are not all-powerful. Which is good to know

** BTW: several years ago, I read an account by a psychologist who'd been called in to sort out a young boy who was suffering night terrors and bed-wetting. He was aged about 12. Only after a long time would he reveal to the doctor that he was being visited/terrified several nights a week by a tall cloaked female figure. The doctor first believed it was the usual adolescent disturbances, insecurities, etc. etc. Finally, he was convinced that the boy believed implicitly that his experiences were real. The boy was above average intelligence; could well distinguish between dream and reality and so on.

The account was written up in Lancet or some other reputable journal. The doctor finally discovered that the boy's mother was his stepmother. By speaking with the parents separately at great length, he finally learned that the step-mother harboured deep animosity towards the boy, based in her own insecurities and jealousies. She wanted him gone. Consciously-outwardly, she revealed non of this. In fact, she'd successfully hidden her resentment towards the boy even from herself, to a large degree.

The doctor reached the conclusion that the stepmother's animosity towards the boy had -- in effect -- taken on a life of its own. The doctor believed the stepmother's mind was manifesting while she slept and was taking the form of the cloaked figure which menaced the boy as he also slept. Thought become mass in other words. The stepmother was shocked when she learned this. She agreed that deep down, she wanted the boy to 'disappear' in order she could have the father to herself.

The doctor treated all members of the family simultaneously; built up the stepmother's confidence in her role until she was confident her husband loved her as deeply as he did his son. The boy made a full recovery; ceased to wet the bed or suffer night terrors. Courageous doctor to have made his conclusion public.

Question is though: could the stepmother's externalised anger (which took the form of a menacing cloaked figure) have actually harmed the boy? Could it have killed the boy ? (which is what the stepmother wanted to happen).

Which leads to the question: how many of us are subject to such attack, which we mistakenly believe to be supernatural entities ?

And --- do these energies become supernatural entities ?

Or ... do actual, existing supernatural entities use people's subconscious desires, hates, etc. as vehicles via which they may menace us ?

And that's a long coffee break i've just taken, lol

 

[OldTimeRadio]

But I think my naive trust in the blanket-as-invisibility-cloak was shattered early on by a real-life monster in the form of a parent who, in drunken rage, repeatedly tore the covers from me late one night in order to deliver a thrashing which extended to the entire terrified family and included the dog (which was not safe either, even though it cowered under the house). Thus I learned that covers offered no protection.

I am genuinely sorry that you had to endure this, but many of us blessed with two genuinely-nurturing parents were none-the-less plagued by festering night-fears.

There are those who've experienced similar and therefore know these things are real. Those who've never experienced it cannot, will not be persuaded as to the reality, so I won't waste any time attempting to do so ....

While I've never personally experienced a shrouded, hooded entity or the "Old Hag," I am most certainly NOT a "Disbeliever." The recorded evidence for their existence is overwhelming. I've never personally witnessed a plane crash either.

....vacuum cleaners and other electrical items feature for some reason in my paranormal experiences....

There's a definite relationship between paranormal manifestations and the electro-magnetic spectrum. Traditionally the two most haunted rooms in houses are said to be the kitchen and the bathroom, because those are the rooms with the strongest electrical connections and also the strongest-grounded due to all the plumbing connections.

The sun is shining. Birdies are chirping outside....Something/s are there. They are focussing on you.

It's those bright daytime malignancies which are the worst. I believe it's the 93rd Psalm which implores protection from "the pestilence which walketh by noonday."

....how many of us are subject to such attack, which we mistakenly believe to be supernatural entities ?

In the case of the boy and his step-mother, the events already strike me as supernatural/paranormal, although perhaps my standards here are looser than most.

P. S. Again6, wasn't it you who several years back posted to "It Happened to Me" an account of a "Old Hag" entity which you and your son encountered along a road or highway, near a bridge (as I recall). That was one of the most frightening "true paranormal" reports I've ever read.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

"Old Hag" NOT Seen....Only FEARED

Although I've never seen the "Old Hag," it occurs to me that I spent years of my childhood (especially the late 1940s and early 1950s) hiding under the bed covers because I was absolutely terrified of seeing her.....this malignant entity of whom I'd never even heard.

 

[again6]

OldTimeRadio: yes, the strange creature on the bridge was witnessed by my son and myself. I was told last year that the bridge in question is now closed and a modern one built in it's place. Apparently the old bridge and its approaches had been the scene of several deaths in recent years, mostly from car-accidents.

many of us blessed with two genuinely-nurturing parents were none-the-less plagued by festering night-fears

Interestingly, my brother, who escaped relatively unscathed throughout most of the regular violence, was the only sibling who did suffer night terrors. He went through a period in which he awoke in the middle of the night, convinced horrible old women were looking for him. At these times, he was also of the belief that there were centipedes inside all the seams of his pajamas. He'd be white and sweating with fear. We had to strip him, and as he watched, we pressed methodically all along the seams, to show him they were empty. Only then would he put his pajamas back on and allow us to coax him back to sleep.

As an adult, I read a book or article in which a doctor advised parents to encourage their children to think their most frightening thoughts before going to sleep. His theory appeared to be that if the child got it out of his system, he'd sleep soundly, and he said it was for this reason that many children's bedtime stories contained frightening elements and a happy-ever-after conclusion.

I didn't suffer night terrors as a child (apart from the looming figure) quite possibly because I'd had my fill of it before going to sleep. Maybe we require a certain amount of terror in the same way we require essential vitamins and minerals -- or our minds manufacture it?

again6: There are those who've experienced similar and therefore know these things are real. Those who've never experienced it cannot, will not be persuaded as to the reality, so I won't waste any time attempting to do so ....

OldTimeRadio: While I've never personally experienced a shrouded, hooded entity or the "Old Hag," I am most certainly NOT a "Disbeliever." The recorded evidence for their existence is overwhelming. I've never personally witnessed a plane crash either.

Well, that's refreshing, OldTimeRadio and my apologies. I was hurrying along when I wrote the above. What I should have said was: ' Some of those who've never experienced it cannot, will not be persuaded ' (I had in mind those in some forums whose only stance is that of hard-nosed disbeliever).

Let's hope you never experience the Hag phenomenon; it's an experience you'd be well without. It's only ten years ago, approx. that I experienced it. It's so shocking that you afterwards do all in your power to push it from memory. It's a vile experience.

Recently, in another forum, I read a post by a man who claimed he experienced the Hag on regular basis. He fully accepted the scientific explanation and was keen for others to do so also. In fact, come to think of it, I've read numerous accounts of the Hag in forums now, and in most instances the victims seem to jump at the explanation offered by science, in preference to considering the Hag a reality.

I'm not averse to logical persuasion or scientific proof, but it has to make sense to me; it has to be powerful enough to outweigh my original conclusions. And although I acknowledge that the explanation offered for the Hag sounds reasonable in theory, it hasn't convinced me that my experience was merely the result of sleep paralysis. I was more than willing to be convinced, I should add. I would honesly much prefer to believe/be convinced that the Hag is a construct of the mind caused by physiological conditions.

The thing had intelligence, however. It was external to me. I saw it in the half light; saw it change and grow from a shapeless black mass to become a degenerated humanoid thing. It had arms and legs and a hunched type back. It didn't have hair. It was immensely powerful. It was totally black. I had the impression it was male. Most importantly, it had an intelligence. It knew what it was doing. It had enormous willpower.

Science would have me believe that conditions within my physical body were translated by my mind as being an alien, threatening presence; the Hag; an archetype.

Science's theory would have me believe that throughout thousands of years, millions of individuals of all ages, races and creeds have also believed they experienced the Hag, when in fact (according to science)they all suffered sleep paralysis which in turn was translated by all their millions of different minds and intelligence-levels and belief-systems and varying degrees of experience, etc. as being a creature which -- for some reason unexplained by science -- has been virtually identical in all instances !

Put six people at the site of an accident and you get six different versions of events. Ask twenty people to assess an individual and you'll get twenty differing opinions regarding his/her merits, etc. Take a hundred people to a mountain-top and ask them to sketch what they see, and you'll get one hundred individual interpretations. Put a thousand scientists in a room for half an hour and you'll get 500 disagreements and as many differing theories.

But subject several million people to the Hag throughout thousands of years and you get several million almost identical accounts; It's evil, it crawls on top of you while you're asleep and attempts to (or does) impose itself upon you sexually; it's vile, it's semi-human, it has intelligence, it attempts to (or does) overpower and terrify you, etc.

Scientists educated at the most prestigious universities in the world propose String Theory, M-Theory, Warp-theory. They've changed their minds every time you open a newspaper. They reviled and ostracised Velikovsky and thirty years later they stole virtually every idea he'd ever had and claimed these as their own. An asprin a day is good for you, as is wine. No! Wait ! Asprin isn't good for you any longer, nor is wine. We're going for mandarins now, but we're not quite sure and it might be plums that assist the liver. We'll let you know as soon as we're told which way the scientific community is leaning. In the meantime, eat red meat despite our earlier warnings, oh -- and scrap that healthy-eating pyramid we gave you ten years ago because apparently we made a few mistakes with that. Tip it upside down and start all over again and we'll give you updates as soon as Big Business tells us which angle to push.

This same 'science' presumes to tell people what they've experienced. But since when have people required to be told what they're seeing, and feeling and fearing and experiencing?

Science is a collection of theories floated as fact. Ordinary men and women however, deal with hard reality, experience and observation; they know with reasonable certainty that if five people tell them there's a twenty car pile-up in the road, then it's probably better to avoid that road. If their friend or neighbour or brother tells them a foul, semi-human creature -- a Hag -- crawled onto them and subjected them to vileness as they slept, then they suspect something approaching this account probably did occur. If ten people tell them the same story and later they experience it themselves, they accept this thing (whatever it is) as real enough.

Science may be correct about sleep paralysis; it's physical causes and effects.

But how does science explain the fact that millions of people have experienced the Hag in conjunction with the alleged sleep-paralysis?

Why the Hag?

Why not pink elephants or bundles of straw, or steaming manure, or black puddings or sacksful of rubber gloves?

Science cannot explain why people consistently experience the Hag instead of black puddings. Therefore science's theories regarding the Hag phenomenon don't hold water and become mere opinions.

Science hopes no-one will ask it why the alleged sleep-paralysis invariably results in the Hag experience, because science really has no idea why.

In fact, doesn't science reserve the right to validate only those occurrences and experiences which are repeatable? By this criteria, hasn't the Hag validated itself as a genuine phenomenon?

I'm just thinking aloud, OldTimeRadio, although I realise it sounds as if I'm pressing you to answer on behalf of 'science', lol. Quite possibly though, someone will undertake to do so and to tell me my argument stinks

 

[OldTimeRadio]

my brother....went through a period in which he awoke in the middle of the night, convinced horrible old women were looking for him.

It's always those Old Hags, isn't it? I believe the Old Hags MUST have an existence independent of Sleep Paralysis. Otherwise why would I bave spent years of my childhood in abject fear of the Hags I never even once saw? I never experienced Sleep Paralysis, but I KNEW those malignant crones existed.

At these times, he was also of the belief that there were centipedes inside all the seams of his pajamas.

There are diseases of which a symptom is the feeling that there an insects crawling beneath the skin. I wonder if this might be related?

As an adult, I read a book or article in which a doctor advised parents to encourage their children to think their most frightening thoughts before going to sleep. His theory appeared to be that if the child got it out of his system, he'd sleep soundly, and he said it was for this reason that many children's bedtime stories contained frightening elements and a happy-ever-after conclusion.

I think the Good Doctor's theory would have done a bad job on me.

Let's hope you never experience the Hag phenomenon; it's an experience you'd be well without. It's only ten years ago, approx. that I experienced it. It's so shocking that you afterwards do all in your power to push it from memory. It's a vile experience.

As you point out this phenomenon seems to be almost identical across cultures and throughout history. I think that SP is merely the (or just "a") trigger for their unwelcome appearances.

 

[again6]

OldTimeRadio wrote:

I think that SP is merely the (or just "a") trigger for their welcome appearances

.

Yes !

In fact, it's tempting to suspect there's a plot afoot; an organised disinfo campaign.

By coincidence, last night I was browsing a site completely unrelated to the Hag. It was just a regular blog by a man who writes on any and every topic. Within his blog, there were several references to RAW. I hadn't a clue what RAW is, so I clicked the embedded link. This led to an interview with Robert Anton Wilson who's apparently considered the guru's guru in some circles. The topic of the interview was extraterrestrial aliens; 4's and against; the possibility that Whitney Strieber (sp?) was a child sexual-abuse victim rather than an abductee; the fact that Timothy Leary had flourished in solitary confinement, etc. etc.

But Robert Anton Wilson chose to preface all of this for some reason, with a comment about Sleep Paralysis and the Hag. He said in effect: ' I've had sleep paralysis twice, but forunately I woke up before the Hag made its appearance ', the implication being that sleep paralysis and the Hag are synonymous. (As I turned off the lights and closed the curtains shortly afterwards, I mumbled to myself: ' Ah yes, Mr. Paid by the Word no doubt Wilson.' )

All too often now in forums I read posts by new posters, seeking advice re: the Hag experience, only to be swiftly advised by others that what they've experienced is simply SP. Then comes a pseudo-scientific blow by blow of what constitutes SP, with the Hag dismissed as the equivalent of a childish nocturnal boogey-man created by rippling blankets, shadows, subconscious dreads lurking on the fringes of consciousness, etc.

The response is usually: 'Uh -- thanks. Whew. That's great to hear. '.

For the sake of many, it should probably be carved in a tree somewhere: ' And First there was the Hag ... which begat the ubiquitous Sleep Paralysis '.

I eat cheese before bed and dream of underwater dogs laughing amongst the reeds.

You eat cheese before bed and dream your frying pan is chasing you down the road.

Mr. Next Door eats cheese before bed and dreams his socks caught fire on the train to work.

You're stung by a wasp and you simply laugh it off. I'm stung by a wasp and the bite swells up and I cry for half an hour. Mr. Next Door is stung by a wasp and he's admitted to Casualty. A man in Denmark is stung by a wasp and he dies.

You swallow a tab of LSD and you have a beatific experience. I do the same and jump off a tall building. My neighbour tries LSD too and says he doesn't know what all the fuss is about because all he felt was 'sick'.

But ... I experience a Hag visitation and I'm told it's 'just' Sleep Paralysis.

You experience a Hag visitation and you're told it's 'just' Sleep Paralysis.

Tony Blair experiences a Hag visitation and he's told it's 'just' Sleep Paralysis. Which by coincidence is what Vladmir Putin is told and Mother Teresa's ghost and everyone who experiences the Hag phenomenon. Wow ! At last we have a truly universal, unvarying, one-size-fits-all experience !

And it's becoming so common these days, this Sleep Paralysis !

Or at least we're led to believe, judging by its regular appearance in forums.

Who are these Sleep Paralysis merchants ?

Are they members of the Deny the Hag Society?

What do they have to gain ?

Who are they working for ?

What are they afraid of ?

What is it they don't want us to know?

Ah, yes ... I've just remembered what the blog I was reading was about. It was about the Van Allen belts and how they 'dip' very low for some reason over South America. The blogger was musing about the fact that alien attacks in South America are often quite ferocious, even lethal, compared with alien appearances in the rest of the world. He was speculating if the low altitude of the Van Allen belts and the resultant thinness of the particles were the reason. He later stated that he believed the earth's population may ordinarily be protected from hostile alien attack BY the Van Allen Belts.

Moving on, he mused that the reported current fluctuation in the earth's magnetic poles may be responsible for a lessening in the protection we are usually afforded; hence more alien attacks/appearances or potentially more alien attacks/appearances. From that, he mentioned the eras in which the earth's magnetic poles had reversed in the past relative to the birth of various religions and strange goings-on ... and the upsurge of reported phenomena involving strange unidentified flying craft and occupants in our present era.

Throughout, the blogger and his contributors speculated that alleged UFO-type aliens, chupacubras, Men in Black, etc. etc. were in fact supernatural/paranormal in origin, rather than extraterrestrial (which many of us have pondered).

So, maybe the thinning of the 'particles' is permitting more alien and/or supernatural creatures access to we earth-people; hence more reported Hag experiences, resulting in damage-control assurances (by whom?) that it's 'just' Sleep Paralysis ?

Sorry Damage-Control People, but I know myself. For a start, I wasn't paralysed. And I saw a Hag-thing. 'Just' a Hag.

(I'd better go and get some sleep. 5.30 am. here again).

 

[OldTimeRadio]

UNwelcome Appearances

Again, that was supposed to be "unwelcome appearances," and I have just now corrected it in my original post.

But I know why I made that keyboarding error - at the time I was thinking "there must be at least a few people who welcome the appearances of the Old Hag, who live for such sightings - and I certainly hope that I don't know any of those individuals."

 

[again6]

I realised it was a typo, OldTimeRadio

Getting back to your childhood fears of Hag-type entities, because it's interesting, isn't it?

You say you had never seen/experienced the Hag, yet you were nonetheless terrified of a visitation by same. Chicken or egg ~~~ chicken or egg ~~~.

In an online auction forum of all places, not too long ago, I browsed a lengthy discussion amongst parents, concerning some quite disturbing incidents involving their very young children. One mother said she lives in a disused railway carriage (in a rural ghost-town) with her two young kiddies. Their home had been divided into bedrooms, etc, with the children's bedrooms towards the back. She said her youngest child, a little boy, had begun screaming and crying in the night.

She'd resisted going to his room, because she feared this would only establish a habit; she wanted him to learn to sleep through the night. After three or four nights of this however, and with the child's screams mounting in intensity rather than lessening, she'd gone to investigate. She said she discovered the child (little more than a baby) sobbing and fearful, crouched up in a corner of his cot. His face was a mask of terror and his gaze fixed on something across the room. His little finger pointed past her to something she knew not what.

She hurried the child to her own room, comforted him and with her arms around him, finally got him to sleep. The child was genuinely fearful if placed in his own room, she said, and even in the daylight was hyper-vigilant; no longer the happy little tot he'd been.

The woman was alone in her carriage-home one weekend when her partner (from whom she was amicably separated) took the children to his mother's for a few days. During the day, bright sunlight, she heard strange scratchings towards the back of the carriage. She went to investigate; found nothing untoward. She speculated it may have been a bird on the roof or possum in the ceiling cavity and thought no more of it, apart from registering how chilly it was in her youngest son's room; strange, considering the temperature was hovering in the 30's and the rest of the home was like an oven.

When her husband returned with the children, he mentioned that the children, both of them, had been nervous at bedtime; had clung to him and wanted him to remain with them. His mother (the kiddies' grandmother) had noticed the same thing; had said they seemed generally scared, apprehensive, quick to startle and strangely 'lifeless'; less spontaneous, less happy, more 'clingy', anxious if left alone even just outside the back door in the garden. The younger one's face seemed strangely thinner than even a few weeks before. She worried the tot may be run-down or have a low-grade infection.

Sceptics might say it was entirely normal for the children to cling to their father, in light of the parents' separation. The other symptoms might also be attributed to separation-loss, etc.

However, the father lived nearby his partner and children and saw them often several times a day, being unemployed. There had been no dramatic separation; the parents had lived together with periods of ambicable separation throughout their relationship.

Upon the children's return, there was a repeat of the night terrors, particularly the younger child. As she raced through the older child's room, this little kiddie (aged between 3 and 4 I think) pointed to his younger sibling's room and nodded gravely, saying: 'Man ... man ... '. She was puzzled but not overly alarmed (stoic woman).

The mother wrote that when she hurried to the younger child's room several times a night (often after being awakened by his screams) she'd noticed absently how cold it was in there. It didn't make sense. But her days were filled with practical tasks; she felt the situation might ease; might simply be part of childhood and motherhood.

Finally the situation reached a head when -- after again finding her youngest son sobbing and pointing -- she'd sensed rather than seen something 'horrible' in the room. Grabbing her sons, she'd taken them to her room each night afterwards and this was the situation now, she wrote.

There were other strange happenings; unexplained noises, scratchings with no apparent cause; the youngest boy's bedroom was often like a refrigerator even in the middle of the day, etc.

The boy's father had investigated every inch of the carriage; had spent several nights with his wife and children and witnessed some of the strangeness himself. He was so concerned, he now lived in a small annexe attached to the carriage as he had at other times during the relationship.

The mother wrote that she and her children's father had no option but to tough it out. There were no work opportunities in the town but it nevertheless offered a simple but good lifestyle. The couple had invested all they had in the carriage over a period of years; in practical terms it was adequate to their needs.

The mother said she'd sprinkled sea-salt through her home with attention to the boys' vacant bedrooms. She said the entire small family now spent considerable time with the grandmother. Each time they returned to the carriage they hoped to find things back to normal. She said she and the father had attempted 'really hard' to convince themselves it was all just imagination. A return to the carriage had an immediately depressing effect on the entire family, however. But she was still hopeful.

Throughout this lengthy forum discussion, numerous parents (single and other) recounted their own experiences and offered advice. One woman wrote that she had three children and a situation so bad that now each night, the entire family slept in the living room with the lights on. The children (and she herself, she admitted) hated going to the upstairs bedrooms and ventured there only when absolutely necessary, in groups.

Another woman laughingly recounted her experience, whereby she and her husband, after years of saving, had finally obtained a mortgage on 'worst house, best street'. The husband, a builder, had demolished most of the existing structure and a bit at a time, had built the family's new home.

The children should have been thrilled with their new bedrooms, she said, but they weren't. Two of the smaller children, who were still sharing a room, invariably ran screaming to their parents' bed and could not be persuaded to return to their own. Their father had adopted a strict Do As You're Told approach, but the children still risked a telling-off and flung themselves, crying, onto their parents. The older son had taken to sleeping at a friend's house at every opportunity, claiming it was easier than making the trip home at night after sports and other activities. The two older girls had chosen to sleep together in the same room, rather than in their individual new bedrooms; they claimed something awful came into their rooms at night when they were on their own, etc. The father was not amused and placed responsibility of restoring order and sanity upon his wife.

The mother wrote that ever since they'd moved into the partially-demolished/partially re-built structure, she'd seen something fleetingly in the original hallway on occasion. She'd kept it to herself. Her husband, she said, was working himself to the bone at his full-time occupation and his after-hours work on the home. When they'd first met, she said, he'd told her his dream of a big, happy family and the rambling home he wanted to build, surrounded by lots of land. It had taken years to achieve and she didn't want to ruin things for him.

Finally she confided to him that not only she, but two of the older children, had seen the thing in the hall. Not only that: the back door (at the end of the hall) was still locked yet agape, several mornings when she arose. Yet her husband went around the house religiously each night, securing all doors and windows. She asked him to check that the lock was operating properly. He did. It was.

Then, one day, as she hurried along the hallway, she felt something touch her in the same way as if someone else (invisible) had been passing in the opposite direction. She and the older children discussed their individual experiences; all were frightened. A family meeting was held, during which her husband exploded and blamed his wife for filling the children's heads with rubbish instead of (as a good mother should) dismissing these nonsensical ideas and restoring order and common sense.

Some time later, the two younger children ran terrified from their shared room and flung themselves on their parents. As the mother comforted them, the over-tired father finally lost it. He leapt from the bed, raging that he'd 'had enough!' and stomped out and down the hallway, determined to put an end to the nonsense once and for all.

The mother wrote she could hear slamming, heard her husband's garbled yelp, then he ran back to the room, white-faced and dumbfounded. A second later, still in his underwear, he dashed out again. He returned moments later with the other children under his arms and ushered them into the parents' bedroom. Then, as everyone stared in shock, he slammed the door and dragged a chest of drawers across it. He then sat down with his back pressed hard against the lot. He remained that way until morning, while the rest spent a restless night, clustered together.

The mother wrote that her husband went straight out and rented a place for his family and moved them out of his dream home. Currently, laughed his wife, he was working doubly hard to complete their ex-home, in order to sell it as soon as possible and recoup their outlay in order to purchase something else. She noticed, she said, that he worked on the place during daylight hours only. He refused to say what he'd seen or experienced that night and became very tetchy if pressed. His explanation for the move, she said, was that it was pointless to stay, seeing she and the children weren't happy there.

Everyday forums provide a wealth of information re: things that go bump in the night, submitted by ordinary folk. Very often, it's the children who first notice that something is wrong. Either that, or children are selected as targets, initially.

I think it might be worth considering, OldTimeRadio, that perhaps you did see/experience something horrid as a very young child, after which (in later childhood) you dreaded a return of the thing which perhaps your subconscious had buried deep.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

....she lives in a disused railway carriage....

Interesting. Any indication as to whether the car was still on (disused) tracks?

I'm constantly amazed as to how many true ghost and paranormal accounts take place near railroad tracks, even when the proxinity of those tracks has nothing overtly to do with the events at hand and the tracks are mentioned merely in passing.

The UK's covered by a grid of steel tracks and in the Western Hemisphere the grid runs from northern Canada clear down to southern Argentina.

When people flee a haunting by hundreds or even thousands of miles there often still remains that steel connection.

By the way, is this a UK story?

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Getting back to your childhood fears of Hag-type entities, because it's interesting, isn't it? You say you had never seen/experienced the Hag, yet you were nonetheless terrified of a visitation by same. Chicken or egg ~~~ chicken or egg ~~~....
I think it might be worth considering, OldTimeRadio, that perhaps you did see/experience something horrid as a very young child, after which (in later childhood) you dreaded a return of the thing which perhaps your subconscious had buried deep.

I wouldn't think so, because my memories stretch back extraordinarily far. I can tell you not only about things which I experienced at age three or so, but even of dreams I still remember from that period.

But I seem to have always been aware that there are Old Hags lurking in the darkness.

 

[again6]

OldTimeRadio asked:

Interesting. Any indication as to whether the car was still on (disused) tracks?

I can't say, unfortunately. I don't think the woman in question mentioned it. From the sound of it, her carriage was in reasonably close proximity to the disused railway line because there were unoccupied carriages nearby. Her husband had apparently scavenged from these when constructing the annexe/studio he'd attached to the woman's carriage for his own use.

I'm constantly amazed as to how many true ghost and paranormal accounts take place near railroad tracks, even when the proxinity of those tracks has nothing overtly to do with the events at hand and the tracks are mentioned merely in passing.

The UK's covered by a grid of steel tracks and in the Western Hemisphere the grid runs from northern Canada clear down to southern Argentina.

When people flee a haunting by hundreds or even thousands of miles there often still remains that steel connection.

Interesting ! I had no idea Thank you ! That snippit of information may have direct relevance regarding an experience I learned (in middle age) that I'd shared with my brother (of centipede fame) when we were quite young. In fact, it's one of the few possibilities.

By the way, is this a UK story?[/quote]

No, Australian