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Hiding Under The Covers

again6 wrote:

I think it might be worth considering, OldTimeRadio, that perhaps you did see/experience something horrid as a very young child,

OldTimeRadio

I wouldn't think so, because my memories stretch back extraordinarily far.
But I seem to have always been aware that there are Old Hags lurking in the darkness.

I was prompted to ask after submitting the post about the woman in the carriage. Her younger son was around toddler-age; 14 to 18 months old I would guess. Despite his distress re: the incidents, he may not remember them when grown. If accounts of hypnotism are to be believed, though, we actually forget nothing; it's all there and can be recalled via hypnotic suggestion. I remember watching spellbound tv shows years ago in which people were able, under hypnosis, to describe with perfect recall, the breakfast they'd eaten on, say, 3 Sep. of their fouth year; the presents they'd received on the second birthday and so on.

The railway-carriage child's subconscious or deep memory will/may always contain those moments in time. Possibly the incidents will remain as clusters, including what he saw and how he felt upon seeing it; the atmosphere during those moments and sensations, odours, sounds. Very possibly, the attendant rush of adrenalin will accompany all this as well as every detail, such as the feel of the wood of the child's cot beneath his fingers, the feel of bedding on his limbs, the taste of fear in his mouth, the sense of helplessness; 'Mummy come, mummy come !', etc.

The parents may decide never to tell the child about what occurred. He may grow to be a big, strapping man, seemingly afraid of nothing. He won't understand the gnawing apprehension that assails him in certain circumstances; when lying alone in the dark for example. He may castigate himself for being a sissy and this may prompt him to take unnecessary risks in order he can overcome what he believes is his secret weakness. Or, he may develop what he feels to be an inexplicable interest in the paranormal. He may develop into someone described as being afraid-of-his-own-shadow. He may suffer from exaggerated startle-effect, much to his and others annoyance, or be hyper-vigilant, life-long; always looking over his shoulder and peering tentatively into darkened rooms for several seconds and scanning the corners and behind doors, under beds, etc. He may live with a sense of apprehension; a waiting for something (he knows not what) to appear, to happen.

But I seem to have always been aware that there are Old Hags lurking in the darkness.
 
again6 said:
No, Australian

Thank you very much. I'm going to save this story to several different files, but I like to arrange things by general location.

Again, I'm so happy that you have once more become active on these boards. (I believe you were inactive for a while.) I've been wanting to exchange ideas with you ever since I read (and saved) you and your son's truly frightening roadside "Old Hag" encounter in "It Happened to Me.".

"Don't let that in the car!"

Brrrr....
 
again6 said:
....he may develop what he feels to be an inexplicable interest in the paranormal.

Well, that's me, although I might quibble at the "inexplicable."

He may suffer from exaggerated startle-effect much to his an others annoyance....

That's me, too. Sometimes (not often) when I drop a fork or knock over a salt shaker I react (according to a close friend) "just like you've been shot." Interestingly, I never do this "out in public," or even when I'm alone, but only in the company of old and good friends. Psychiatrists and other physicians have suggested that since I do have Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) I may also have have "sub-clinical Tourette's Syndrome," since the two conditions are genetically linked. [85 percent of people with Tourette's also have OCD.]

....or be hyper-vigilant, life-long; always looking over his shoulder and peering tentatively into darkened rooms for several seconds and scanning the corners....etc. He may live with a sense of apprehension; a waiting for something (he knows not what) to appear, to happen.

Mea culpa. Remember, the old name for Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder was "anxiety neurosis."

P. S. I'm not certain if I've mentioned this to you before, but I co-lead (there are two of us) one of the main OCD support groups in the American Midwest. It draws members from parts of three States.
 
OldTimeRadio:
you have once more become active on these boards


Thank you OldTimeRadio. I was browsing the forums a week or more ago, perusing topics of particular interest and came across a thread entitled: 'House Demons' (I think it's in IHTM) in which Stanforda had posted a link to an experience I posted a few years ago (here in Fortean) under my original ID. Zipped back to find it a second ago and it's: http://tinyurl.com/mslm2

It qualifies I think for inclusion in this things that go bump in the night/hiding beneath the covers thread.

It involves what are generally referred to as little people and strange as it sounds, was the most terrifying experience I've had, in its immediate effects. Others have left me far more troubled, long term and some were terrifying (yes!) at the time, but nothing has left me as immediately hysterical. At other times I've been frightened to the point I've momentarily left my body, but I've nevertheless been able to control my reactions/pull myself together to safeguard my children and/or remove them from the house. The little people experience occurred when the children were absent, fortunately. Perhaps they chose that opportunity to hit me with the full blast? Maybe they didn't realise I'd react so hysterically? Maybe my subconscious/higher mind left me to my fate, seeing I didn't have the children to consider at that time? Maybe the children's higher minds provided me control during experiences when the children were present ? Impossible to say.

I remain fascinated by these little people. Don't know if they actually did manifest physically in the form in which I perceived them. Don't know if they were paranormal/interdimensional entities or if, as sometimes claimed, they are elementals or an actual secret race that's existed alongside man throughout. Don't know why they subjected me to the experience, nor do I know what I actually experienced. Don't understand why people who were dressed in basically European-type, old-fashioned, home-made, heavy-cloth, peasant attire wore such clothing in the hot, humid climate of modern-day Australia. What they wanted, what they did, etc. remains largely within my sub/super-consciousness, I suspect. I haven't completely ruled out seeking clarification via hypnosis, although it would require a competent, unbiased hypnotist, or there would be no way of discerning if resultant information were factual or tainted to varying degrees by fantasy, imagination, speculation, stuff read afterwards, etc. I'd like to access the actual event and learn the whole story, but don't know if that's possible after all this time.

All parents, surely, harbour painful remorse regarding events from which they failed to protect their children. I feel thus about many things, one of which is the little people. I learned many years after my own little people experience that my daughter had been aware of them (prior to my experience) and had feared them, throughout several years of her early childhood. She and her twin brother were aware (I later learned) of the focus of activity in that house. They didn't tell me but I should have worked it out. Instead, I was under the belief I was concealing from them my own awareness and experiences as well as protecting them from same.

In recent years I contacted (as advised) the ELFEN Project, run out of Canada I think. Received a lengthy response from a Professor Butler, recently returned from little people research in Patagonia, if memory serves (lost the lot in a hard drive mishap although I may have hard copy buried somewhere). Butler advised me that ELFEN were currently in regular contact with over 60 families throughout the world (many in US and Canada) who are learning/have learned to live amicably with the little people entities who share their home. ELFEN apparently provides mediation between the two factions.

Butler advised that little people, unlike hauntings, attach themselves primarily to locations, rather than individuals. Departure from a little people occupied premises usually gaurantees an end to the little people contact ... at least for the departing individuals. We have had no repeat of the little people experiences since departing the house in which they occurred (that was a strange house).

Butler informed me that my own experience falls within the extreme range of 10% of the reported little people experiences, but it was not unknown for little people to sometimes pinch, pull hair or throw things. More often, physical contact was restricted to stroking hair. Most often, the little people were seen by members of a household, but did not directly interact with them.

The ELFEN Project website is not particularly scholarly in appearance, nor is its content. I guess it was designed to conform with the generally held view of little people as being sweet little nature spirits and so forth, which I personally believe is entirely misleading/untrue. Whatever the creatures were, they were not sweet and I doubt their intentions were benign.

I had no opinions or thoughts re: the creatures during the experience but I was left with a very clear memory. I may be wrong, but I believe they possess the ability to switch-off their victims' critical faculties to a large degree (and possibly insert false memories?). In my case (possibly all cases?) I nevertheless had the equivalent of a video camera rolling for much of the time, which I was afterwards able to access (to some degree at least). This revealed the little people to be dour creatures with non of the supposed human-loving sweetness. It's my feeling they are drones/workers and also that they are in some fear of their controllers or heirarchy. They did not look particularly intelligent, apart from the leader who was physically larger (but nonetheless typical in appearance; face, body-type, clothing, etc). The others appeared very much as yokels, yet cunning, hard ... and a bit pathetic; downtrodden, joyless.

At one point, the leader's face was very much in-my-face; my vision consisted entirely of his face. At another point, his eyes formed the totality of my vision and it was intense but I haven't much other memory of that particular moment.

I speculated (in my communication with Butler) that the little people may have been UFO-type aliens (not that I have any experience of them at all) which my mind had chosen to portray as gnomish-type creatures. I'm of Northern European (English) origin. I wondered if gnome-type creatures were a component of my inherited-memory (if such exists) and as such, had been decided upon by my sub/super-consciousness (or by UFO-aliens themselves) as being more readily acceptable/less alarming to me?

Butler however informed me that elements of my experience placed it definitely within little-people realm; not that of UFO-aliens or other.

It appeared to be Butler's opinion that little people are physical entities.

I remain undecided.

I've read that the Northern American tribes were/are familiar with little people; that they fear them and train their young not to interact with them or they will face dire consequences. The tribes-people reportedly have always left offerings for the little people in order the little people will leave their crops, etc. unmolested. The tribes do not regard the little people as benign, sweet, human-loving creatures, apparently; the reverse is reported.

It was a weird, almost unbelievable experience. Butler was very much of the opinion, however, that I was fortunate to have had it.

I do not feel fortunate and won't pretend to. I would have preferred not to have the experience and would vastly prefer my daughter had been spared her own (hopefully much milder) experiences of the little people.

Whatever the little people actually were -- physical, interdimensional, alien or even subconscious entities -- why not a reassuring smile or pat or whisper, as in: ' Don't be afraid; we're just here to adjust your thermostats; won't take a moment; you won't remember this so just sit back and relax ' if their intentions were benign or even neutral? Why terrify vulnerable small children? Why the stealth? Why seize control of the victim?

No, sorry, these creatures are not the nice-guys their press suggests.

They went to considerable trouble and effort with me. Yet where are the benefits? None.

In fact, the only positives to be derived from the experience (postive-negatives in fact) are that I discovered (some 18 to 20 years later) that others have experienced/witnessed the little people too ! It was a relief to learn that.

A woman in the State of Victoria, Australia and her adult daughter phoned someone I know to say that little people (which looked 'sort of' like gnome things) had been darting from room to room all afternoon. The mother was apparently hysterical as she reported this. Afterwards, she refused to participate in a follow up call or to discuss the matter.

I read on internet a few years ago that two women in Central America were walking along a bush track they used to get to work when a little person (gnomish) appeared suddenly on the track ahead of them. One of the women collapsed. When the ambulance arrived they treated her for shock and took her to hospital.

ELFEN's Professor Butler told me that contemporary little people reports emanated from all corners of the globe; he mentioned Australia, quite a lot from New Zealand and other Pacific islands, many from Hawaii (???) and from Northern and Southern America, Central America, Canada, England, Scandinavia, etc. Quite often there are several simultaneous witnesses.

But the most thought-provoking (for me at least) information surfaced when I learned about Charles Bonnet syndrome as its called. This refers to those who see -- while awake -- little people, who are very often gnomish/elvish, complete with stereotypical little elf-clothing and often topped by a hat. You'll discover copious references on the web so I won't belabour it, apart from adding that the common element with Charles Bonnet syndrome, is sight-impairment. Many such are elderly, naturally, which suggests possible dementia. However, research conducted (there hasn't been a lot; that's published at least) by a UK hospital (Manchester from memory) discovered that whilst many Charles Bonnet syndrome 'sufferers' are elderly, they are nevertheless demonstrably sane, sound of mind and free from dementia symptoms. The study noted (in the version I read) that many had deliberately withheld their little people experiences from family, friends and doctors, for fear they would be judged 'potty' and placed in a nursing home. (better to read a selection of articles re: Charles Bonnet syndrome in the interests of balance; some are quite dismissive, others lean in opposite direction).

Many elderly and/or sight-impaired folk would have little use for internet and thus would be unaware that many other sane, sight-impaired people of all ages are seeing the same little people as themselves. Thus, we might assume that many who see little people continue to conceal their experiences from everyone else, for fear they're going insane or will be judged so.

So what are we to make of all this? Why is sight-impairment such a dominant feature within little people sightings ... within Western society? How does this correspond with little people sightings amongst indigenous people (native American Indians for example) ... and children, whose eye-sight would usually be excellent ? (there are numerous reported little people sightings within Fortean forums, many of them occurring in childhood)

My own eyesight at the time of the little people experience was quite good; I didn't require even mild reading-glasses at the time, according to the optometrist. The only sight problem I had noticed was the fact that when I entered a completely dark room, only one eye seemed to work. The other took ages to adjust and even then was inferior to the good eye. It didn't pose a problem then, nor now; the other eye is adequate. And in any case, the lights were already on in the room where I had the little people experience.

Poor night vision in one eye does not explain the other phenomena associated with my little people experience; does not explain the sudden onset of overwhelming sleepiness which compelled me to stagger backwards and flop on the bed after opening the wardrobe, followed by loss of normal consciousness. It does not explain the times I regained partial consciousness during the experience, nor does it explain the little people's voices which I heard, etc. (that's supposing of course that my usual physical faculties and not other-consciousness was involved)

The native American Indian tribes who incorporate little people within their lives don't stipulate that a requirement of the experience is darkness, nor one which requires a shaman. From my reading, it seems ordinary tribes-people of both sexes and all ages encounter the little people in the course of ordinary life. The little people may be interdimensional of course, but perceived as physically real by the tribes-people, whose version of reality may be far different to that of Westerners/city folk.

Anyway OldTimeRadio, it's another one for your files if you deem it fit. We're used to reading accounts of frightening experiences involving human sized or larger entities which project an aura of dread, but not much is reported about the pint sized variety dressed in typical gnome-like attire. How could a small gnome-thing possibly be frightening? I would have said the same, before the experience. To be remembered though is the fact I was not frightened during the experience. In fact I was annoyed by the little people and was confident I could deal with them easily, as soon as I could be bothered.

It was only after they'd departed that I came apart. Very odd. Almost as if they tore a super-adhesive bandage off my brain to allow the full import of the experience to impact. And it did, almost bypassing my analytical sections of my brain in the process in order to hit some primeval shock-horror out-of-control buttons. I was a basket-case and the worst thing was, I still couldn't think clearly and the panic continued escalating. Pure horror with -- on the face of it -- little real cause.

As an after-thought: those who report seeing little people (those with Charles Bonnet syndrome) do not, as far as I'm aware, report feelings of alarm.
 
OldTimeRadio wrote:

Sometimes (not often) when I drop a fork or knock over a salt shaker I react (according to a close friend) "just like you've been shot." Interestingly, I never do this "out in public," or even when I'm alone, but only in the company of old and good friends.

Interestingly, I never do this "out in public," or even when I'm alone, but only in the company of old and good friends

That is interesting ! Do you have any theories as to why this is so?

At least you're more fortunate than I, anyway, lol. I usually manage to choke/half choke on nothing and almost invarably when I am 'out in public'. Cripes -- I'm blushing just remembering some of the more notable exhibitions (now really do feel like hiding under the covers, lol). And have a sister who's as agile and flexible as a baby, yet who somehow has managed twice to fall, skid and roll her way down wide staircases and land at the feet of startled people below; once in an evening dress that ended up leaving nothing to imagination :-(

I have a really annoying case of the exaggerated startle thing. I promise myself each time I've nearly shocked someone to bits, that I'll control it next time. But of course it happens before you realise.

Son and daughter have a touch of it too, so occasionally we'll have a richochette (sp?) effect that must push the adrenalin volume of the room to combustible levels. Usually I'm alone and pottering along in the belief I'm alone. Almost always I'm humming away, thinking about something and so on. Someone else comes into the room, or appears behind me and then ---- ! I react so violently and with such a recoil that it's bounced back and shocked the other person into almost equal reaction at times. So then there are two of us clutching our chests and breathing deeply with wide, startled, staring and angry eyes.

'Don't DO that ! ' I say to whomever as soon as I can speak.

' Do what ?'

' Don't creep up behind me like that !'

' I didn't creep. I thought you heard me ! '

' Well I didn't ! It's polite to give a bit of warning, you know. You could give someone a heart attack by slipping around soundlessly like that. Next time cough a bit if you don't mind, so I know you're coming.'

' What about me? You nearly gave me a heart attack, carrying on like that ! '

I was walking down the road a few months back, at dusk --- as usual, humming a bit, thinking of whatever. Suddenly I sensed something behind me and whirled around to such effect that the man just behind my left shoulder almost dropped in his tracks !

The adrenalin rush vents itself in frightened fury of course, so once I'd grasped the situation, I head myself saying before I could stop myself:
"What a stupid thing to do! Don't you know better than to walk up behind people like that ! '

Poor guy was trying to control his own adrenalin fury. Didn't speak. Just took off like a hare after giving me his best: 'You're crazy' expression. I noticed he was wearing the most soundless pair of sneakers I've ever not heard.

What it did do, besides scare five more years off me, was illustrate that if there had been a mugger behind me, he would have had plenty of opportunity to grab my bag and run, while I was still electrified and flopping around recovering from the exaggerated startle reflex. Ah well, will just have to hope if I ever need a good defence, my capacity to deliver heart-lurching shocks ( in those who've just startled me) will do the trick.
 
again6 said:
'Don't DO that ! ' I say to whomever as soon as I can speak.

' Do what ?'

' Don't creep up behind me like that !'

' I didn't creep. I thought you heard me ! '

' Well I didn't ! It's polite to give a bit of warning, you know. You could give someone a heart attack by slipping around soundlessly like that. Next time cough a bit if you don't mind, so I know you're coming.'
Sounds like an average day in my house :lol:

My mum has a tendency to overreact to things, which is at least in part due to her being partially deaf. There have been numerous occasions where I've been ambling round the house in my usual, not-terribly-quiet manner, and she's turned round and been scared half to death because I've "crept up on her". What she has yet to tell me is how I can signal my presence without frightening her - if I cough, or tap her on the shoulder, or anything else, it will still make her jump.

She also leaps out of her chair whenever the phone rings. She claims it startles her because she doesn't know it's going to ring. I've pointed out that other people in the house don't know when it'll ring either, but manage not to jump 3 feet in the air. If anything, we should be more likely to jump, because it has to be turned up really loud so she can hear it, but we don't jump at all.
 
again6 said:
OldTimeRadio wrote:

Sometimes (not often) when I drop a fork or knock over a salt shaker I react (according to a close friend) "just like you've been shot." Interestingly, I never do this "out in public," or even when I'm alone, but only in the company of old and good friends.

Interestingly, I never do this "out in public," or even when I'm alone, but only in the company of old and good friends

That is interesting ! Do you have any theories as to why this is so?

My guess is that I'm relaxed around people I love but "on guard" when I'm out in public or perhaps even more so when I'm all alone.

I also sometimes have an unpleasant gag/choke response when I'm eating and an extremely disgusting thought crosses my mind. But this seems to happen ONLY when I'm eating alone.

In addition I have an over-active adrenaline system and sometimes get "adrenaline freezes" which are triggered by extrenely minor and unimportant stimuli.
 
myf13 said:
My mum....leaps out of her chair whenever the phone rings. She claims it startles her because she doesn't know it's going to ring. I've pointed out that other people in the house don't know when it'll ring either, but manage not to jump 3 feet in the air. If anything, we should be more likely to jump, because it has to be turned up really loud so she can hear it, but we don't jump at all.

I don't know if the same thing happens in Britain (I assume it does) but in the States I've many times noticed that when people sit down for a meal in a private home, and the telephone rings, everybody present - adults and children alike - shouts "'Phone's ringin'! 'Phone's ringing'!," as though they've all been waiting for this signal since the time of Christ.
 
again6 said:
I remain fascinated by these little people.

So do I, although I can claim no personal experience.

Anybody who continues to disbelieve that we at least seem to share our planet with a diminutive race/species/intelligence has been sleeping through class.

A classic and reasonably-well-documented example took place in Northern Argentina around five years ago. (I recite this from memory but I saved the original accounts.)

A police officer on patrol during the wee hours of the morning flashed his light down a dark alley and saw what appeared to be a boy around eight years old. The cop walked down the alley determined to put the fear of the Lord into this kid for being out so late.

But it was a little old man.

"Go.....away," said the little old man.

The cop did, as fast as his feet could carry him, running for long blocks before he began to calm down.

A few days later and in the same police district cops in a radio car failed to receive any communications from base. They drove to headquarters to see if there was a problem.

They found the radio officer (suppposedly) on duty crouching in terror under his desk.

It seems the little old man had been by to pay a social call.

"He said he was going to take me to Hell!" the officer screamed. "He said he was here to take me to Hell!"

That officer spent several days in a the mental unit of a local hospital before his terror lessened enough to release him.

Later that same month our little friend showed up at an Army sentry box. He pushed the box over then picked up one of the two young soldiers on duty and threw him up into the branches of a tree. Both soldiers were terrified by their experience, but the soldier who was tossed also had to be confined for his own safety.

I wish my bed was higher off the floor.
 
I've found that I can't sleep until I have my comforter firmly tucked underneath me. Every part must be at least an inch underneath with my full weight on top of it.

It seems that this started when I was a small child; I couldn't stand the thought of something reaching up from underneath the bed. When the covers are tucked in under the mattress (or worse--HANGING LOOSE!) it is a small feat for such and such a monster to slide a claw/hand/tentacle up underneath and GET you.

To this day I'm not comfortable until I've done the bedtime ritual of tucking myself into a virtual cocoon.

Needless to say, I've nothing to fear from sleeping bags.... :)
 
Reading this thread has brought to mind a story my brother-in-law once told me - when he and his older brother moved from home for the first time, and were sharing a tiny apartment in New York, his brother, who always slept with one leg dangling from the bed, usually in contact with the floor, suddenly began having nightmares about "little monsters" coming in the night and gnawing on his toes.

They both thought nothing more of it until the older brother looked at his feet one morning, and noticed a number of tiny raised, red welts on the tops and bottoms of his toes. This, of course, freaked them out to no end, and they concluded that there must be some rational explanation.
And there was.
One evening, after watching television, the older brother went to bed while the other stayed up to read. The door to the bedroom they shared was wide open, offering his younger brother a clear, unobstructed view of his sleeping sibling, dangling leg and all. He heard his brother mumbling something in his sleep, saw his leg twitching and then noticed three or four mice chewing on his toes.

Hearing this story was enough to ensure that henceforth, I would always always sleep with arms and legs tucked to my sides, and well above floor level.
 
MercuryCrest said:
I've found that I can't sleep until I have my comforter firmly tucked underneath me.....I'm not comfortable until I've done the bedtime ritual of tucking myself into a virtual cocoon.

Let's see, you're 26 and I'm 65. Welcome to the life-long club! <g>
 
Again6, if you haven't checked the "Old Lady" thread under IT HAPPENED TO ME since you were last active on these boards, you might care to do so, since the commentary has considerably grown.
 
OldTimeRadio wrote:

In addition I have an over-active adrenaline system and sometimes get "adrenaline freezes" which are triggered by extrenely minor and unimportant stimuli.

I'm not familiar with the term: 'adrenaline freezes', OldTimeRadio. I'm curious. Would you describe these, please?
 
OldTimeRadio wrote:

They found the radio officer (suppposedly) on duty crouching in terror under his desk.

It seems the little old man had been by to pay a social call.

"He said he was going to take me to Hell!" the officer screamed. "He said he was here to take me to Hell!"

That officer spent several days in a the mental unit of a local hospital before his terror lessened enough to release him.

Later that same month our little friend showed up at an Army sentry box. He pushed the box over then picked up one of the two young soldiers on duty and threw him up into the branches of a tree. Both soldiers were terrified by their experience, but the soldier who was tossed also had to be confined for his own safety.

and:

That officer spent several days in a the mental unit of a local hospital before his terror lessened enough to release him.

Absurdly, OldTimeRadio, this information provides me reassurance.

As a seven year old, I was compelled to stand by as someone drenched our family's possessions in petrol, followed by their brandishing a box of matches and threating to 'take everyone with' them. As a young woman and upon hearing ghastly sounds, I rushed into a pool hall to find a man thudding a billiard ball into the skull of an already unconscious man who was slumped over a pool-table. The injured man's skull contained a deep depression, filled with blood and hair. I was able to intervene and prevent a possible murder. As a child I led my siblings from within several bush-fires and once pulled them from a crumbling sand-cliff seconds before it collapsed into a wild ocean. I've been kidnapped; have had to fight to save my life; was once lured into (but evaded) a planned gang-rape; have been unwilling passenger in a speeding car which the driver planned to use as a murder-suicide vehicle; once leapt between my downed husband and an attacker who was armed with knuckle-dusters and continued punching the attacker like a machine, until my arms felt like useless, flailing jelly. So many other frightening experiences. Afterwards, I invariably shook so badly that I could hardly stand. But my mind never deserted me.

The little people experience unravelled my mind. There was only a tiny remnant remaining, far off, way back, and that must have been what I used to 'phone for help. After I put down the 'phone, I had nothing left. I doubt I could have remembered my own name. The panic just fed on itself; continued escalating --- I've never experienced anything like it. I was mindless; sobbing, whimpering, running outside into the darkness, hardly any sense of who I was or of what had occurred. Almost unhinged.

You never forget the mind's total surrender to terror, just as you cannot forget the way terror can suddenly take you and fill you like a flooded gutter and shake you to pieces like a scrap of wet paper.

It doesn't make you stronger, unfortunately; it leaves you 'less'. Because afterwards, you appreciate your capacity for fear, terror. And you realise there are 'levels' of terror and that to date --- no matter what you'd previously survived --- you had only dipped your toe in that ocean.

The little people took terror to a new level. I don't know why, because only moments earlier I'd believed I had the situation well under control; could handle them with ease. I wasn't afraid of them during the experience, in fact at the end, when I fought my way free (my memory's version) I'd shouted and yelled and kicked out at them. I suspect now they'd 'numbed' my mind; my emotions, etc. Then they left. They weren't happy either. And I can only suppose that when they departed, they removed the 'anaesthetic' and something ( I still don't know what) was able to hit me with full force. The little people certainly had the last laugh.

I had a bad night. Next day I was fragile, but life doesn't wait. I had no frame of reference, not even a flexible one, in which to slot the experience. It was a ridiculous experience, I realised --- literally unbelievable. No-one and nowhere to take it. They'd lock me up; say I was crazy, take my children away. Nothing for it but to push it to a corner and move on; say nothing; stick to routine; wear a happy smile; make jokes; behave normally before colleagues and others; fill the house with noise and laughter; keep busy; refuse to think about the little people when alone at night; try to paper over awareness of just how slender is the line between normality and nightmare; coping and mental collapse.

But when you've actually seen that massive, gaping black fear-hole inside your mind, when you've teetered on the edge and seen that it's bottomless and had to accept that some things know about that black hole and know how to push you over the edge with just a puff of their breath -- then any confidence you may have painfully won via earlier experience is stripped from you and you learn about fear all over again and appreciate that it's far deeper than the Mariana Trench and bigger than the sky.

So thanks, OldTimeRadio .... it helps in some strange way, to learn that soldiers and policemen also unravelled after an encounter with the little people.
 
MercuryCrest wrote:

I've found that I can't sleep until I have my comforter firmly tucked underneath me. Every part must be at least an inch underneath with my full weight on top of it.

It seems that this started when I was a small child; I couldn't stand the thought of something reaching up from underneath the bed. When the covers are tucked in under the mattress (or worse--HANGING LOOSE!) it is a small feat for such and such a monster to slide a claw/hand/tentacle up underneath and GET you.

Yes, that describes it perfectly.

And, as OldTimeRadio's advised, the fear and subsequent need to coocoon the feet doesn't diminish with increasing age.

There has to be a reason so many people fear their feet being 'grabbed'.

I'm reasonably confident that most who suffer this fear have never experienced having their feet grabbed by a horror-creature. So why do we fear it so intensely? I've suggested it may result from being held aloft by the feet by nurses/doctors immediately after birth. Are babies pulled from the womb by their feet, I wonder - could that be the explanation? Or could it be that certain mental activities are reflected on the soles of the feet, as reflexology (?) claims? Are our feet a 'lower-hemisphere' map of our brain?

I'm not really sure, come to think of it, if my sensitivity involves my ankles and feet generally, or simply the soles of my feet. All I know is, I feel so vulnerable and open to attack if the soles of my feet are exposed ---- while I'm in bed and preparing to become unconscious. When I'm lying down on the beach, on the other hand, having exposed soles of feet doesn't worry me.

Another fear is sitting on a jetty, for example, with my feet hanging over the side. There's always a bit of worry that something will grab me. Depends on the circumstances, but there have been times when out of the blue I've suddenly had that 'feet exposed - alarm, alarm' feeling, after which I've tucked my feet up under me.


(Interestingly, my memory of the little people concerns their attempts to pull me feet first from the bed and into an open wardrobe)/
 
again6 said:
...

Yes, that describes it perfectly.

And, as OldTimeRadio's advised, the fear and subsequent need to coocoon the feet doesn't diminish with increasing age.

...
It can. All you have to do is experience a few real life events that really rack up on the nasty, hair raising and life threatening front and then most imaginary terrors should fade away in the background noise of your life. ;)
 
again6 said:
I'm not familiar with the term: 'adrenaline freezes', OldTimeRadio. I'm curious. Would you describe these, please?

That's understandable, since it's possibly my own phrase.

When i was still in my early twenties I experienced numerous panic attacks and when the immediate stimulus (often an remarkably minor one) was removed I'd get this super-adrenaline "rush" which would leave me so wintry cold (even during stifling Summer tempatures) that I described it as a "freeze." Even my skin would grow taught, hard, like I was filled with embalming fluid.

I eventually realized that I was becoming addicted to these "freezes" and was self-inducing the panic attacks to experience them.

It's nowhere that bad today but I still often get a decided adrenaline "chill" from something so minor as dropping a fork or having a light bulb burn out.
 
Pietro_Mercurios said:
It can. All you have to do is experience a few real life events that really rack up on the nasty, hair raising and life threatening front and then most imaginary terrors should fade away in the background noise of your life. ;)

I dunno about that. Being a battlefield veteran isn't any guarantee against visits from the "Old Hag."

Besides, your view that the things we experience/fear are simply "imaginary" and thus not "real life" is simply your private opinion of us, and it is an opinion with which we dare to differ.

And how can you so pontifically state that none of us have undergone life-threatening situations? Whence came this power of yours to peer into the minds of all Humanity?

Sweetly,

Old Time Radio
 
again6 said:
I've suggested it may result from being held aloft by the feet by nurses/doctors immediately after birth. Are babies pulled from the womb by their feet, I wonder - could that be the explanation?

Are you suggesting that breech-birth babies are likely to have a fear of having their feet grabbed?
 
OldTimeRadio said:
Pietro_Mercurios said:
It can. All you have to do is experience a few real life events that really rack up on the nasty, hair raising and life threatening front and then most imaginary terrors should fade away in the background noise of your life. ;)

I dunno about that. Being a battlefield veteran isn't any guarantee against visits from the "Old Hag."

...
But, that's something that happens to one. Not something that one tries to guard against, because one fears it, with nightly rituals.

And I only say, should fade away, no guarantee that they will. It worked for me, I'm almost certain that others grow out of such fears. Obviously, not everybody can be so lucky.

My own atavistic night terrors of alsatians, or wolves, under the bed seem long gone and far away. Nor, have I experienced the infant nightmares of being caught in spiderwebs, or of being trapped in shrinking tunnels, since childhood.
 
Pietro_Mercurios said:
being trapped in shrinking tunnels
Now that, apparently, is something to do with the memory of being born. Allegedly. ;)
 
again6 said:
As a seven year old, I was compelled to stand by as someone drenched our family's possessions in petrol, followed by their brandishing a box of matches and threating to 'take everyone with' them.

Again, I am so very sorry that you had to endure this and the other bad events in your life.

As a child I led my siblings.... from a crumbling sand-cliff seconds before it collapsed into a wild ocean.

One of my Dad's proudest memories was of something similar. When he was around 12 years old (circa 1928) some of his playmates decided to dig a cave into the side of an earthen hill in his (and my) Northern Kentucky home town.

When the cave was complete all the guys except my Dad huddled inside. Dad was leery about entering so stood outside while the others called hin "Chicken" and "Fraidy-Cat."

Then the entire hill collapsed, burying everybody inside.

My Dad ran for help, encountering a big, strapping workman mending a road. He grabbed his shovel and ran back with Dad, managing to dig all the kids out - blue, unconscious and very nearly dead.

By the way, there's more to the Argentinian Little Man story. About six months later he/it showed up again. This time adults were still scared of it, but infants also. From the reports I've studied, you could tell when it was in the neighborhood, because aduts became nervous and agitated and all babies began shrieking their heads off.

But school-age children were NOT afraid of the little demon and they threw sticks and stones at it, forcing the creature back into a hole in the ground from which witnesses said it originated.








T
 
Pietro_Mercurios said:
But, that's....[n]ot something that one tries to guard against....

I can assure you from long personal experience that I do, and I'm by no means alone.

My own atavistic night terrors of alsatians, or wolves, under the bed seem long gone and far away. Nor, have I experienced the infant nightmares of being caught in spiderwebs, or of being trapped in shrinking tunnels, since childhood.

Never had any of those. What we've been talking about is "Old Hags" and demonic Little Men.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
Pietro_Mercurios said:
But, that's....[n]ot something that one tries to guard against....

I can assure you from long personal experience that I do, and I'm by no means alone.

My own atavistic night terrors of alsatians, or wolves, under the bed seem long gone and far away. Nor, have I experienced the infant nightmares of being caught in spiderwebs, or of being trapped in shrinking tunnels, since childhood.

Never had any of those. What we've been talking about is "Old Hags" and demonic Little Men.
The Thread title said something about 'Hiding Under The Covers'.

I've certainly experienced visits from the 'Old Hag'. As to the 'demonic Little Men', is there a qualitative difference between them and imaginary wolves?
 
Pietro_Mercurios said:
As to the 'demonic Little Men', is there a qualitative difference between them and imaginary wolves?

The evidence seems to point in that direction. I have absolutely no records of active duty cops fleeing imaginary wolves or hiding under their desks for fear of them.

But you continue to operate from the premise that the things you believe in are real while those things which other people believe in - and experience - are simply "imaginary."

That makes genuine dialogue impossible.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
Pietro_Mercurios said:
As to the 'demonic Little Men', is there a qualitative difference between them and imaginary wolves?

The evidence seems to point in that direction. I have absolutely no records of active duty cops fleeing imaginary wolves or hiding under their desks for fear of them.

But you continue to operate from the premise that the things you believe in are real while those things which other people believe in - and experience - are simply "imaginary."

That makes genuine dialogue impossible.
I think you may have got that a bit back to front. I don't necessarily believe that any of the things I believe in are 'real', or that any of the things that 'other people' believe in are necessarily 'imaginary'. That's why I consider myself a Fortean.

Perhaps the problem lies in the possibility that you, like many people in the USA, still seem to evince a 17th, or even 16th Century, World view, whilst many in the 'Old World' took on at least some of the implications of the philosophical theories of Immanuel Kant and his heirs, sometime in the late 18th, early 19th Centuries?
 
Pietro_Mercurios said:
Perhaps the problem lies in the possibility that you, like many people in the USA, still seem to evince a 17th, or even 16th Century, World view, whilst many in the 'Old World' took on at least some of the implications of the philosophical theories of Immanuel Kant and his heirs, sometime in the late 18th, early 19th Centuries?

Exactly. The 17th Century saw the birth not only of modern science but also of modern democratic thought. It was the century of Joseph Glanville, the founder of psychical research, and of the most noted of proto-Forteans, that splendidly "idle fellow" John Aubrey. (In fact I sometimes describe myself as an Aubreyist rather than as a Fortean.)
 
This is a very important point, and may go some way to explain the occasional, subtly differing interpretations and practice of Forteanism on either side of the pond. The very fact that Fort was a New Yorker living and working in London may, or may not, have some bearing on it ;).
 
Cult_of_Mana wrote:

Are you suggesting that breech-birth babies are likely to have a fear of having their feet grabbed?

I couldn't say, Cult_of_Mana. One of my children, a twin, was a breech birth and I know she wraps her feet securely in preparation for sleep. Although she invariably tosses virtually all her bed-covers off once asleep, lol, particularly in summer.

My suggestion re: possible birth-related fear concerning feet being grabbed is simply that: a suggestion; a seeking for a possible reason for this apparently quite common fear. I've suggested several others; particular sensitivity re: the soles of feet, etc.

Please contribute any theories you may have ... there may be a perfectly reasonable explanation lurking in someone's head that may go some way to alleviating others anxiety regarding 'unprotected' feet whilst in bed.
 
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