Hiding Under The Covers

[Min Bannister]

I heard a long time ago that it came from when we lived in trees. If you sat with your feet dangling down from the tree it made it easier to be grabbed by some scary carnivore. The hatred of having your feet hanging down from your bed is a sort of ancestral echo of that. When I was a kid I used to stand on my bed and leap across the room so the ankle grabber under the bed couldn't get me.

 

[Timble2]

I'm possibly weird, but I don't mind having my feet out from under the duvet...but then I was never scared about anything being under the bed either.

 

[again6]

Pietro_Mercurios wrote:

It can. All you have to do is experience a few real life events that really rack up on the nasty, hair raising and life threatening front and then most imaginary terrors should fade away in the background noise of your life.

I'm sure you offer this advice as kindly reassurance. However, from earliest childhood, I experienced events which really did rack up on the nasty, hair raising and threatening front; a small sample of which are contained in one of my earlier posts. These were real and witnessed by numerous others; often they did not occur to me alone. Similar events have occurred to a large percentage of the population: for example I know a woman who, when a girl of less than ten years of age, was compelled to assist her mother after the latter had performed an abortion upon herself. The young girl told me how, after several hours and more blood than she'd ever seen before, she'd had to carry a bucket containing a foetus, blood and tissue and flush these down the toilet, on her mother's instructions. The same girl, when still a youngster, was habitually molested both by her father and young uncle.

My neighbour, many years ago, recounted to me the beatings administered to her sickly mother by her drunken father. One night the father dragged the mother down to the fenced enclosure where the family's cattle were contained, at which point he beat the mother to death, intentionally or otherwise, afterwards claiming she had been trodden by the animals. The father's story was accepted by authorities, apparently. My neighbour recounted this horror to me immediately after her by now aged father -- who had been visiting -- had departed. All during his visit, my neighbour had behaved as was normal for her and appeared to treat her father extremely well. Upon the father's departure however, I discovered her raging and banging her head repeatedly against the aluminium sheeting of the garage wall. It was the noise which caused me to investigate, which in turn prompted my neighbour to unburden herself to me.

My father worked for his own father, a country undertaker, while in his teens. In order there should be no suggestion of favouritism, his father instructed him to take his tools to the home of an elderly woman after neighbours of the woman claimed she had not been seen for several days; her milkbottles and mail were amassing on the doorstep. My father used his tools to force his way into the locked premises and discovered the old woman to be dead; her cats -- unable to get out for food -- had begun to devour her. A few years later, my father joined the Royal Navy during which time he spent considerable time in Atlantic Convoys as a petty officer. Two Scotsmen, unwilling to submit to wartime discipline, slit their throats. My father was required to lead the team which undertook clean-up duty. He had the misfortune to be on three ships, one after the other, which were blown up; the lower decks were closed off to limit the damage and in the hope of making it to port. He said you never forget the sound of men screaming as they roast alive. When not on board, sailors were required to act in the capacity of military police and or ambulance-drivers. He transported a young Phillipino woman, a teacher, who, while taking an outdoor class, was attacked by a swarm of wasps. He administered what little aid was possible and then drove the woman as fast as possible to what passed for a hospital. He said she was the most beautiful woman he's seen in his life, but was reduced to a swollen beast-like thing before she finally died. Picking up body-parts in Shanghai and elsewhere became almost common-place for him. When he returned to civilian life, he returned to his father's undertaking-joinery business. The back-of-shop of undertaking is far removed from the end-result and dimly-lit viewing-room. Many elderly folk die at home, alone, and are not discovered sometimes for several weeks. Nature takes its course and someone must do what needs doing. After wars, many people (returned servicemen quite often) take their own lives and use whatever is to hand; often rat poison or similar. My father's seen a lot. He has a highly developed sense of humour. He's also had a number of highly accurate precognitive dreams which he's recounted to others before the events took place in reality. He's seen things too, that supposedly do not exist, yet he has no doubt of their reality.

The woman who was witness to her aborted sibling and the woman who witnessed the brutal murder of her own mother have experienced paranormal phenomena, yet both are highly practical, capable women, both with a side-splitting sense of humour. I could go on all night, regarding people I've known who've lived through what most today would regard as hell on earth. Most are generous spirited, positive in outlook, copers, productive, etc. Most have also, at some point, revealed experiences that are generally described as psychic or paranormal, supernatural, etc.

These are people I've learned can be trusted and relied upon in a crisis; they are honest and fair; they are exemplary citizens; they are independent in the extreme, most of them. I'd trust them with the keys to my home -- I have in fact. Were I to ask them a question, I know I'd receive an honest reply, regardless of the cost to them or their possible wish to remain uninvolved. They're the sort of people who would stop on a rainy night on a dark road, to assist someone. They know how to deal with their fear; they push it to the rear and do what seems right. They drive on the correct side of the road; they don't endanger others; they're accepted on jury panels; their advice is sought by others. If I ask them the time of day, they provide me a correct answer. I have no reason to suspect them of fabrication therefore, when they relate an experience which falls into the 'paranormal' category. I regard them as eminently sane and reliable.

The people described above and numerous others I've encountered, have all had at least their share of verifiable, real-life, 'nasty, hair-raising and life-threatening experiences and have emerged with their sense of humour and perspective intact ... but their experiences have not provided them immunity to things that go bump in the night, nor is there any reason why they should or would do so.

 

[again6]

OldTimeRadio wrote:

Again, I am so very sorry that you had to endure this and the other bad events in your life

Thank you, OldTimeRadio --- all a long time ago and I'm confident you immediately grasped that my reason for including such snippits in that post were for the purpose of illustrating that I had experienced a number of reasonably terrifying experiences prior to the little people visitation, yet these real-life unpleasantnesses hadn't affected me as badly as did the seemingly bland little people event.

 

[again6]

Timble2 wrote:

I'm possibly weird, but I don't mind having my feet out from under the duvet...but then I was never scared about anything being under the bed either

There must be many (myself included most certainly) who envy you. I sometimes try to tough it out, lol, but rarely succeed. For instance, if I semi-recline, with a book, with the lights on, in hot weather, I can tolerate fully exposed feet but I find they seek each other for comfort and intertwine and basically attempt to 'cover' each other. Most often though, even in the above circumstances, I'm far more relaxed with a light rug or throw over my feet as far up as the shins.

I don't have a problem with 'under the bed', unless I have reason to suspect some living person may be concealed somewhere within a premises, in which case I will (for the purpose of practical elimination) look under the beds, but will also check the wardrobes, behind doors and anywhere else a real-life individual might choose as a hiding place. I'd rather deal with the problem while awake, alert and standing up, than worry about their emergence when I'm less able to defend 'me and mine'. The checking under beds may take place if I've returned to a premises after an absence, for example, or if I've heard a noise when there shouldn't have been, or if in a premises with which I'm unfamiliar; an hotel or motel room for instance.

The exposed-foot anxiety is at least two-fold: (1) anxiety caused by heightened-sensitivity/shrink-factor in the feet themselves if not securely wrapped when I'm preparing to become unconscious/go to sleep and (2) the horror of acknowledgement which will be forced upon me IF something touches my feet. I suspect the latter is something with which some others will empathise. For IF something touches my feet, even lightly, I'll be forced to acknowledge that something/someone is there

At that point I would need to decide whether to (1) retract my feet or otherwise react, or (2) ignore the contact.

If I did not retract my feet, the entity may well take a firmer grasp on my foot/feet or manifest fully ... (at which point the experience could race towards any of a dozen horror scenarios)

If I did retract my feet, I would be signaling to the entity that I was aware of its presence and again, a horror scenario would commence in earnest.

It's fear of being confronted by any of the above that -- by coocooning my feet --- I attempt to avoid. I appreciate it must seem fantastic to those who have no problem at all sleeping with their feet uncovered. I confess I don't understand fear-of-string, for example, although I sympathise with the anxiety suffered by those who do and am curious about why they do.

As a child, I discovered when I awoke that my sister was studying me intently. She said: ' You don't care if your throat's exposed, do you?' I replied that I did not.

' I'm always worried an arrow's going to go into my throat if I have my head back.' she said.

' A what? '

'An arrow '

'Why an arrow? What made you think of that?'

' I don't know. I've always thought it.'

She always wore scarves or bits of cloth around her throat. She got into trouble in primary school for tearing at another girl's hair in the playground. The other girl had grabbed her by the throat, apparently, in an attempt to tear away the scarf my sister was wearing, to see what was underneath. The other girl was under the impression my sister must be concealing a birth-mark or something similar.

As far as I'm aware, my sister hadn't suffered any trauma in the throat region, yet she was highly protective of that area and swathed it in fabric to relieve her anxiety. She slept on her stomach.

 

[again6]

min_bannister wrote:

I heard a long time ago that it came from when we lived in trees. If you sat with your feet dangling down from the tree it made it easier to be grabbed by some scary carnivore. The hatred of having your feet hanging down from your bed is a sort of ancestral echo of that.

That's what I'm wondering too, min_bannister; if it's some form of what is termed 'race memory' or similar.

Another thing that's occurred to me is the possibility that the soles of the feet may be one of the sites claimed as 'departure point' for our spirit after we die. At various times, I've read that our spirit leaves via the crown area of the head, or via the nose, or via the region of our heart, etc. Can't remember reading if the feet are also said to be 'departure points', but I guess they're as valid as any other organ or body-region.

 

[techybloke666]

All this fear of various types must be terrible for the sufferers.
I have always felt safer in the dark than in light, as a boy I used to have the lights off in my room and a very small candle lit so as to throw shadows on the walls that moved, I found it strangely comforting :shock:

When I was very small I didn't sleep much and often complained in the night to my parents of my lack of ability to sleep, much to their distress and anoyance.

That probably went on till I was 11 ish during which i slept my majority of good sleep in the early evenings.

I suppose that is why I have no fear of the dark whatsoever - Dunno just guessing.

It is certainly strange how our very early traits affect us all thro the rest of our lives.

I wish I had some way of passing this lack of fear to others, but as I don't really understand why I am this way , I'm not much help really

 

[again6]

Apologies for consecutive postings here, but I'm on the underside of the planet and so am awake whilst many of you are sleeping, followed by the reverse. Have to post when opportunities present themselves in this part of the world.

OldTimeRadio wrote:

By the way, there's more to the Argentinian Little Man story. About six months later he/it showed up again. This time adults were still scared of it, but infants also. From the reports I've studied, you could tell when it was in the neighborhood, because aduts became nervous and agitated and all babies began shrieking their heads off.

But school-age children were NOT afraid of the little demon and they threw sticks and stones at it, forcing the creature back into a hole in the ground from which witnesses said it originated.

You just keep coming up with these tantalizing clues, OldTimeRadio

Ok -- it seems logical to suggest that the school-children saw the entity as being similar to themselves as far as size goes, which may explain their relative lack of fear.

Adults became nervous and agitated, as did babies. Presumably the babies could not/had not seen the creature. So they 'sensed' its presence and deemed it 'bad', or the creature had the ability to disturb the atmosphere and/or frighten the babies via some sort of telepathy ?

The adults? Possibly reacted in the same way as the babies, for the same reasons as suggested above? Although some of them would know about the creature's earlier appearances (and effects on other adults) and thus may have become sensitised to the creature's presence in the vicinity ?

Only one creature was witnessed, but was it actually only the physical (and seemingly lone) manifestation of what was actually a mass (several) such creatures, in the way of the jellyfish or piece of coral ?

The policemen (adults) attempted to apprehend the creature and it was more than a match both physically and mentally.

Children forced it to retreat !

Policemen recognised (visually and/or on psychic level) that this thing didn't jell with commonly agreed-upon reality -- thus providing the creature the advantage, as in: ' Ok, earth men, you have departed your reality base. Now you're in my territory; the ether ' (or whatever). . ?

Children were impervious to the creature's psychic armoury because they were not afraid of something their own size when they had numbers in their favour, and so their psychic (reality) shields retained their integrity ?

We might suppose the creature/s do not have physical reality; are supernatural; are able to impose upon our minds an image of themselves as seemingly physically real.

Yet the policeman interacted with it on some level of physical reality, because it threw him into a tree -- or 'beamed him' up into a tree.

And 3D rocks and sticks hurled at the creature by the children forced it to retreat or appear to retreat; same thing.

I cannot work this out.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, a blogger speculated recently that the Van Allen belts are breaking up (claimed magnetic pole reversal) and failing to protect us from hostile visitations by 'things'. He also stated as fact that the Van Allen belts have always offered reduced protection to areas of South America, due to the fact they (belts) dip extremely low there. Coincidentally, alien visitations in South America are (and have been) reported as being quite often hostile and/or fatal in comparison with those in other parts of the world. Speculation was: will the rest of the world now become subject to similarly hostile attacks .... and ... have the 'things' always had hostile intentions which have previously been thwarted by the previously adequately protective but now deteriorating Van Allen belts ?

But .... people IN the rest-of-the-world have since the dawn of time warned against little people anyway. Is it possible the little people come 'up' (from earth's interior) rather than needing to come 'down' through weakened Van Allen belts ?

For some reason however, in relatively recent times (since the Cottingly Fairies mystery/debacle/fraud/no-genuine) little people -- portrayed as Disney-type Tinkerbells -- have become regarded as sweet, winsome, postive, benevolent creatures and now flutter on millions of nursery walls, stickers, magazines, tatoos, ornaments, paintings etc. Hundreds, possibly thousands of websites are devoted to fairies. Their devotees describe them as guardian-angels, nature spirits, etc. They claim to see them and have conversations with them; claim to have been warned and saved by them from disaster, claim to see them flitting in water-fall mist and over ponds. They are supposed to speak in voices that sound like heavenly choirs. (Those I heard sounded like proverbial fish-wives).

Even the gnome-type little people are often described as simply mischievous, hard working, earthy 'good' things and legend has it they will milk your cows and clean your hearth, as long as you don't make the mistake of offering or providing them any form of reward for their labours, apart from leaving a little milk for them, etc.. Now that's always struck me as odd. Offering a gift or reward is a 'nice' thing to do, a fair thing, a generous do-unto-others thing; it's one of the better human traits. Yet the little people apparently do not wish evidence of better human traits; they train humans to 'take but not give'.

When I was searching for anything that might throw some light on my own little people experience, I bought a book by Jenny Randles because whilst skimming its pages, I'd noted that Randles claimed that 7% of all UFO-aliens were described (by witnesses or claimed abductees) as 'gnome-like'. Seven out of every hundred claimed-witnesses believed they'd seen gnomes ! No way of knowing if they were reporting alien-encounters at all, of course. They could have had nowhere else to slot their experience and so attributed their experience to UFO-aliens.

But then the Scottish minister who's name escapes me at the moment wrote lengthy accounts of his own experiences with creatures he believed to be gnome/faery and they are credited with killing him, followed by his claimed spectral appearance afterwards in which he instructed in a method which would ensure his release. Unfortunately, according to reports, his release was botched.

The area in which I was born contains (I've recently learned) within its relatively recent folk-lore, accounts of 'boggarts' which periodically appeared and which are blamed for the death (and skinning) of incautious victims. And some people feel: ' Oh well, folk-lore -- it's just the nonsense indulged in by the ignorant.'. Just as people fifty or two hundred years from now may look back at our beliefs and smile and roll their eyes.

The area in which I was born is not for the faint hearted though; the practical survived, the tough ones, the lucky, the cunning or smart. The land is poor, the weather is dreadful, most never had two pence to rub together, infant mortality was high, there were wars all over the place. These would be the sort of people who would probably have good reason to bite a coin to test its measure, before they'd accept it. Ignorant about much, no doubt, but stupid, no -- and with no time or energy to invest in 'quaint folk lore'. If the legend of a boggart lasted more than five minutes, it must have had some substance or it would have vanished in a trace, overtaken by more pressing concerns such as getting sufficient fuel to cook a meal, after they'd found something vaguely edible.

I've never heard Scotland or Ireland described as drowning in milk, honey and perpetual sunshine and ease either, yet they claimed awareness of and experience with malevolent little people. I have a book somewhere, written by a titled woman and containing numerous, allegedly genuine accounts pertaining to the little people, mostly in Ireland, where people took great care not to draw the little people's ire. It seems to me the Scots and Irish had enough to contend with, without inventing improbable tiny creatures to add to their woes. These days we have film and photographs to prove the conflict in Ireland as real, otherwise people in a few hundred year might claim it as 'folk-lore'.

But are the little people 'real' as we consider ourselves to be real, or are they other-dimensional and able to project their image onto the screens of our minds? Are they distinct from extraterrestrial aliens or are they -- in common with aliens and other supposedly paranormal phenomena -- simply flotsam eddying in the universal unconscious? Why do some see them and not others? Why would policemen, members of the military, ordinary adult citizens and children -- all within the same locality -- believe they saw a hostile little person? Had people within the same locality reported seeing a little person before, say fifty or a hundred years previously? Could this mean that certain locations are susceptible to invasion by other worldly creatures? Or should we accept they have always been here and possibly have sound reason for disliking us?

Anyway, have almost made it into Northern Hemisphere time zone, it's so late here :-(

 

[again6]

Techybloke wrote:

I wish I had some way of passing this lack of fear to others

That's a really nice sentiment, Techybloke666

My mother was very similar to you -- virtually fearless when it came to the dark and dark places.

Actually, I think issues become greatly magnified when they're the focus of discussion, as in this thread. I'm perfectly capable of walking up the road well after dark if needs be, for example, and if deprived of something to cover my feet, I'm sure I'd cope as would most others. I guess threads such as this simply provide a sounding board re: subjects most of us choose not to discuss in ordinary life, lol.

 

[escargot]

I have always felt safer in the dark than in light...
I suppose that is why I have no fear of the dark whatsoever

Oh yeah?

 

[mindalai]

I was going to say...If I was poor Techy I'd never close my eyes again.

 

[techybloke666]

I have a had a browse thro your posts Again6 and I have not come across your little people encounter post.

Could someone point me in the right direction please.

As for my own encounter with a "Little Person" I refer to it as a demon I can fully understand your fear.

I have recounted this on another board sometime ago.
But in short an evening with a Ouija board and some friends brought a visitor the next day that would maybe be similar to that of a little person.

It didn't actually do anything or say anything but you could tell somehow that it wasn't a happy bunny so to speak.

The previous night myself, my friend Cotty and Waren and his Girfriend Lucy having my house all to ourselves decided to have a go with a Ouija.
This wasn't the first time we had "had a go" in fact this was just one in a long chain of goes.

Myself and Lucy did not place our fingers on the Planchette , Lucy took notes and I was just watching.

Cotty and Warren placed their fingers on the planchette and asked the usual lame question " does anyone want to talk to us" the pointer started to move as it nearly always does.
The messages were apparenetly from a small boy , he was being evasive as to why he was talking to us , except that he was here to warn Cotty of an event yet to happen.
After a few minutes into the session Lucy commented that the room was getting colder, in fact you could see your breath when you breathed out !
I suggested turning the fire up ( one of those old 4 element gas fires) Lucy obliged and the room appeared to get a little warmer.
After a few more minutes the temperature again dropped significantly.
The boy stated that Cotty would be attacked tonight, this cast a whole new element into the event, and Lucy nervously suggested we quit and go home.
30 seconds later another entitiy came thro the board talking gibberish, the pointer was moving around to letters that appeared to have no meaning, although this is common with Ouija Lucy wrote them down, the only word that could be deciphered later amongst the scramble was Ashtaroth


This stream of information passed within a few minutes as abruptly as it had started.

Suddenly Cotty jumped up from the sofa and ran out of the house.
As you can imagine we were a little taken aback.
He had fled the house in what appeared to be a blind panic.
In worry we set off after him, Warren being the most agile ran after him as he stumbled off up the road.
As we got close we could see that Cotty was being sick in the gutter.

When we caught him up and asked him what he was doing he stared stranglely at us and said " didnt you hear the voice ?"
We looked at each other extremely confused to say the least.
No we said . nothing
Cotty said he heard a womans voice say in his ear "I,m going for Robert now" he said it sounded like a threat and as we only know one Robert that was were he was running too.
We decided to go to Roberts house anyway just to be safe, when we got there Rob wasn't in and his mother had no idea where he was ( which was nothing new )

We decided to call it a day and go back to our own homes.

The next day I awoke aound 10:00 am and proceded to the bathroom as usual.
As I walked in the tube of toothpaste Jumped and I mean Jumped of the window ledge into the sink. I little startled I propped the paste up again to see if it could have fell from where it was. Just as I was messing with it a loud note echoed from my bass guitar in my room, I ran into the bedroom as another note rang out.
This was strange to say the least as there was nothing near my bass on its stand.
Its one of those moments when the hairs on your neck stand up !

Next I heard a noise downstairs sort of a shuffle dragging noise.
I went down to check out.

What greeted my eyes next was a real treat, in the corner of the front room opposite the door was a small grey figure.
It was hunched over about two feet tall at most and it shimmered like smoke in water.
As I walked in it looked up , to this day I couldnt properly describe it to you as it kept changing and shimmering, it looked me straight in the eyes and then bent forward slightly and vanished before me own eyes.
No noise no speech, just gone.

Other things had happened to Cotty that same night after he got home but I will save them for a later date to retell.

Like I said not a true little person but strange and to some probably very scary.

as a foot note
I have looked over the years to see if anyone had drawn what I had seen that morning in the hope that I could put a name to it. to this day I have not seen a drawing or sketch of that entity.

 

[Pietro_Mercurios]

Pietro_Mercurios wrote:

It can. All you have to do is experience a few real life events that really rack up on the nasty, hair raising and life threatening front and then most imaginary terrors should fade away in the background noise of your life.

I'm sure you offer this advice as kindly reassurance. However, from earliest childhood, I experienced events which really did rack up on the nasty, hair raising and threatening front; a small sample of which are contained in one of my earlier posts. ...

My childhood was far from ideal, but going from your earlier posts, there's probably still a lot to be said for one which did feel reasonably safe and secure, nonetheless. So, apologies if it seemed that I was casting aspersions on your life experience.

But, I did have similiar fears when I was younger and they did eventually fade away, as my real life eventually outstripped them.

I haven't had any 'little men' experiences, mind you.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

....yet these real-life unpleasantnesses hadn't affected me as badly as did the seemingly bland little people event.

That's precisely the point which Skeptics and perhaps even a few Forteans seem wholly incapable of grasping.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Is it possible the little people come 'up' (from earth's interior) rather than needing to come 'down' through weakened Van Allen belts ?

This is known as the ultra-terrestrial theory, as opposed to the extra-terrestrial, and John Keel made much of it in his earlier books.

It's been speculated that evil may have actual weight, and thus sink down into the earth, where it festers and resonates at the Mohorovicic Discontinuity (Moho Layer), where the Earth's crust meets the mantle, and creates "hollow" places, some 40 miles down. (But only about three miles below the deeps of the sea.)

But it's also been speculated that there may be some type of "Stargate" at the core of every planatary body.

....the Scottish minister who's name escapes me at the moment

Robert Kirk.

 

[again6]

Pietros_Mercurios wrote:

So, apologies if it seemed that I was casting aspersions on your life experience.

Absolutely no need, Pietros, although your follow-up is appreciated

Sometimes, people feel the need to clarify a matter for the sake of those who choose (possibly through lack of confidence) to read without comment. For instance a worried parent may log into Fortean in the hope of discovering someone's had an experience similar to that of their child. The parent may already be quite sceptical regarding their child's claimed experience and they might come to believe the child is inventing (although at the same time believing in) paranormal experiences because they haven't enough to occupy themselves, or haven't had enough life experiences. It could possibly result in the parent sending the child to some sort of boot-camp; orienteering, absailing, solo-treks, etc., which could prove distressing to certain children, particularly if they'd had paranormal experiences which had frightened them and made them fear the dark and solitude.

You spoke from your own perspective; what you related is true for you ... and possibly for a great many. I would think my brother's life has been similar to yours.

As well, these forums contain experiences people have had throughout often a long, full life. They may be well less than half a percent of the person's total experiences(as in my case, for example) but when taken in isolation, as in forums such as this, they can seem to have occupied that person's every moment and thought, lol.

 

[Timble2]

But then the Scottish minister who's name escapes me at the moment wrote lengthy accounts of his own experiences with creatures he believed to be gnome/faery and they are credited with killing him, followed by his claimed spectral appearance afterwards in which he instructed in a method which would ensure his release. Unfortunately, according to reports, his release was botched.

Robert Kirk of Aberfoyle, "The Secret Commonwealth of Elves, Fauns and Fairies .", 1691.

I visted Aberfoyle a couple of years ago, sorry to say, I didn't manage to capture a single fairy (or even an orb) on film at Kirk's grave or on the hill where he was found dead (or taken by the Fairies and a stock left in his place if you believe the legend).

 

[Pietro_Mercurios]

Pietros_Mercurios wrote:

So, apologies if it seemed that I was casting aspersions on your life experience.

Absolutely no need, Pietros, although your follow-up is appreciated

Sometimes, people feel the need to clarify a matter for the sake of those who choose (possibly through lack of confidence) to read without comment. ...

Thanks, again6. You're quite right. I wasn't just thinking of the contributors to the Thread when I made my original Posts.

It's also by sharing such experiences, discoursing on the subject and its apparent relations, that we might get a bit of perspective and closer to the true nature of the phenomena.

 

[again6]

Techhybloke666 wrote:

Cotty said he heard a womans voice say in his ear "I,m going for Robert now"

After reading your post and learning that you remain extremely comfortable in the dark, a natural response would be to say that you must possess a remarkably calm and positive disposition.

In reality though, there's little can be done about experiences such as you describe, is there? You still have to get dressed and catch the train and function productively at work, you still have to participate in life, relationships, activities, still have to work towards the future, etc.

The world effectively changed for you as consequence of the experiences, yet on the surface, nothing's changed. You can't undo the experience or rewind your memory. Nor can you drag the creature or the ouija experience before a video camera and prove it to yourself or others. No-man's land. But never mind, you have lots of company

( The little people experience as unearthed by Stanforda can apparently be found in the House Demons thread. I posted the url in this thread on about page 3 of this thread I think. Will go back, find it and re-post it when I have a moment. Unfortunately my experience won't confirm yours as the little people I saw weren't like your creature.)

 

[again6]

Techhybloke666, I think this is the shortcut to the Little People post: http://tinyurl.com/mslm2

 

[again6]

Pietro_Mercurios wrote:

It's also by sharing such experiences, discoursing on the subject and its apparent relations, that we might get a bit of perspective and closer to the true nature of the phenomena.

Yep. Some people (myself included) post their experiences, I think, principally in order they might provide some unknown soul, now or five years into the future, with a bit of reassurance and to let them know they aren't alone and that someone, even if far distant, has experienced the same or a similar experience and knows it to be possible (if impossible to prove, lol).

Most who've experienced something really odd and who know (as far as they're capable of knowing anything) that they didn't imagine, dream or invent it, feel not only frightened quite often, but very alone and vulnerable. Most paranormal-type experiences aren't the sort of topic which can be introduced into conversation or even (in many cases) confided to those closest. Most people do one of two things; they either back off as if the other person has a hideous contagious disease or they dismiss the other's experience, whether in jest, patronisingly or something resembling anger. Afterwards, they often repeat the story to others, concluding with the finger circling the temple gesture. They perform the circling-finger routine quite often, even if they've had paranormal experiences themselves, in order to let it be known that they're part of what they regard as normal/sane society.

Paranormal (for want of better term) experiences aren't choosy; they'll land themselves on toddlers and the very elderly and everyone in between. At any one time, there must be dozens of people world wide who're sitting alone, in shock, trying to absorb what just happened to them. At least now, thanks to internet, many of them are able to at least partially confirm their 'unbelievable' experience through existing accounts left by others.

Quite possibly, that's often all it takes for them to be able to pick up the pieces and move on.

Via forums like this, they're also able to submit their own experience or -- when they're ready -- discuss and analyse with like minded individuals. Often, they just want to leave a record of the experience. Most appreciate there are no hard and fast answers or solutions to be found anywhere. Whatever the case, knowing they're not completely alone usually provides comfort.

 

[again6]

OldTimeRadio wrote:

This is known as the ultra-terrestrial theory, as opposed to the extra-terrestrial, and John Keel made much of it in his earlier books.

It's been speculated that evil may have actual weight, and thus sink down into the earth, where it festers and resonates at the Mohorovicic Discontinuity (Moho Layer), where the Earth's crust meets the mantle, and creates "hollow" places, some 40 miles down. (But only about three miles below the deeps of the sea.)

But it's also been speculated that there may be some type of "Stargate" at the core of every planatary body

Thank you OldTimeRadio, you're a mine of fascinating information. How does one person accumulate, analyse, organise and file so much in one lifetime? Inspirational.

I began staying up ridiculously and increasingly late some years ago, in order to stun myself to the point of instant sleep, I think -- made easy thanks to internet. I still manage to function during the day, although often I can't remember those days. Now, my brain's so sleep-deprived and scrambled, it reminds me of our dishwasher's disfunctional timer-mechanism, which clicks from Wash to Empty to Spin and back to Wash again in as many minutes, lol.

OldTimeRadio: It's been speculated that evil may have actual weight

Why does that have a ring of truth or something to it, I wonder?
It's certainly something to ponder.

And encounters with people/events/things which are perceived as evil quite often result in feelings of despondency, depression, darkness, fear, etc., -- all of which are accompanied by sensations of physical, emotional, atmospheric 'heaviness' which pull you down or drag down the spirit etc.

I'm thinking now of common remarks such as lowly, down in the gutter, sank like a stone, weighed down, heaviness around the shoulders, depression (hole, concave), lower than a snake, the pits, de-grading, slid lower and lower, down the slippery slope, failed/fell, pride cometh before a fall, get back get down!, in a rut, etc.

And thinking of all the opposites; such as lifted-the-spirits, soaring like a bird, floating on a cloud, on a high, etc.

It's been speculated that evil may have actual weight

T'would seem you're onto something here, OldTimeRadio. Now, might I just have a loan of your brain for a week or so please, while my own's at the shop, in order I can devote some genuine thought to the matter?

Oh, ok, I understand ....

 

[again6]

OldTimeRadio wrote:

Robert Kirk

Timble2 wrote:

Robert Kirk

in swift and accurate response to:

again6 wrote:

But then the Scottish minister who's name escapes me at the moment

again6 nods in acknowledgement of benefits to be gained from clear thinking, well-rested brains and is now heading towards room containing seldom used bed (will try to leave feet exposed to see what happens).

 

[Pietro_Mercurios]

... It's been speculated that evil may have actual weight ...

Why does that have a ring of truth or something to it, I wonder?
It's certainly something to ponder.

...

It might sound good, but that's definitely one of the places where I part company from OldTimeRadio's World view. Once one starts objectifying 'evil' and placing it out there somewhere, one can start to do, or imagine, some very dangerous things with the concept. When evil is 'out there' and 'real' in some way, pre-existing human consciousness and culture it can become an obvious mark of 'the Other'. e.g. 'I am me and I am good, it is the other that is really evil.' Then it may not be your fault when things go wrong, it might be the little old lady who lives down the lane, who has entered into a pact with evil and put the hoodoo on you... etc.

I suspect that may be one of the reasons President Bush(W) and his Inner Cabinet might have been so quick to fasten on the theories and ideas of all those dreadful old ex-Trotskyite, Born Again, Neo-Cons, with their thinly disguised Neo-Imperialist, nonsense.

Suddenly a complicated and morally ambiguous struggle for the World's resources and strategic control became a simple fight between the forces of Good (The West) and the forces of Evil (The East, aka The Orient, both Near and Far). But, President Bush(W), with his close associates and the Neo-Con Theorists may have been preaching from two different hymn books, one drawing on the King James Bible and the other drawing on the writings of Karl Marx.

Suffice it to say that Islamic Fundamentalist terrorists also appear to believe in objective Evil (the Great Satan) and have apparently located it in the West.

I would say that evil is an adverb, not a noun. A description of something that is done, not a something in itself. Evil that is real and out there and not a cultural artifact, a byproduct of human consciousness and the use of symbolic logic, is a concept that actually enables Evil to be done.

 

[again6]

Then returned, 3/4 of hour later because once I rose from my numb bottom and started moving, the blood was able to circulate and something in one of OldTimeRadio's posts occurred to me.

It concerned the police radio-operator who was discovered hiding beneath his desk after a visit from the little man.

The radio-operator, who afterwards required to be hospitalised or similar, had repeated after his encounter with the little man, words to the effect: 'He threatened to take me to hell ! He said he'd take me to hell !'

The radio-operator was presumably of average height and weight, whilst the little man was approx. 2 to 3 feet tall, or dwarf/gnome, small-child size.

Why then, was the operator near hysterical after his encounter? Would an average-sized male ordinarily be rendered hysterical and terrified by someone half his size, regardless of the threats made by the latter ?

The account suggests the little people are able (as I've suspected since my encounter) to invade and play with their victims' minds; to instill hysterical fear and induce severe shock to the nervous system/emotions, to strip their victims' defences to the bone.

Yet small children forced the same entity to retreat, just as in my memory of an encounter with several little people, I kicked out at them, leapt into the centre of the room and shouted at them, at which point they also retreated. I then fell to bits.

There must be some clues in all of this, something which could be used as defence against them.

It can't be that they're defeated/rendered powerless by opposition and hostility because the children demonstrated hostility yet suffered no ill effects.

The only thing I can think of at the moment is the refusal of the victim to take the little people seriously, as in the case of the children. Yet I didn't take them seriously until I broke through the 'trance' state one final time and experienced serious alarm when I saw they'd worked far more quickly than I'd expected and had succeeded almost in pulling me from the bed. So maybe that is it? Maybe alarm, fear, shock-sensation is the door they use to enter and terrify us?

But would the policeman have been alarmed by a tiny thing, prior to being thrown into a tree? Maybe he was.

Only other explanation that occurs to me right now is that perhaps the little people make an exception in the case of children. Yet they're content to terrify babies (as in OldTimeRadio's account) and in the British Isles in times past, the little people were reputed to steal human babies, leaving their own in their place?

Does anyone know of a source concerning detailed Native American information regarding the little people?

I really don't feel the little people with whom the ELFEN Project claims to be involved are the same little people experienced by the South Americans in OldTimeRadio's account, nor by me. I'm beginning to wonder now, about ELFEN's actual roots and agendas.

 

[again6]

Was just about to depart again, Pietro, when I saw your last post.

I understand what you're saying and much of it is sound, as far as it goes.

But there's more I'm sorry to say, imo.

An example:

When I was 12 or 13 years old, I entered a kitchen to find 'Jane' stirring something at the big, wood-burning stove. It was a glorious sunny day and I was in high spirits.

I bounced up to Jane, who asked me to go to the store to collect some things she needed.

Out I went, hopped on my bicycle and off to the store -- a few minutes' round trip.

I returned and again bounced towards Jane, chattering all the while regarding the items I'd brought.

Jane didn't turn to me but continued standing with her back to me, stirring at the stove. When she didn't respond I went closer, until I was standing alongside her.

When she still didn't respond, I leaned forward a little in order to see her face, which was in profile to me and obscured by her hair.

At that moment, Jane swung around and exposed her face to me. I must have passed out.

For well over a decade, I remembered nothing at all of the experience.

When I was in my mid-20's and enjoying a wonderfully relaxed conversation with a man in whom I had total trust and whose company I greatly enjoyed, I suddenly remembered the incident with Jane. Nothing in the conversation with him had been in any way related to Jane, yet the amnesia of more than ten years suddenly fell away.

In that instant, I remembered what had happened all those years ago. When Jane swung towards me, I had seen another face 'inside' or superimposed upon hers. What I saw was so horrifying, I refuse to this day to bring it totally to mind because I did so once and again suffered almost complete spiritual and mental collapse.

Suffice to say, the face that had posed as Jane's was a gloating, triumphant visage of sheer evil. It's eyes seared my brain, the mouth was drawn back in a grin which no horror movie could even hope to imitate. But it wasn't all visual; it was spiritual attack.

When I remembered all this in my mid 20s, I was shocked, horrified, confused. Where had this memory come from, why had it returned now, what did it mean? Had I dreamt or imagined it or had it really happened?

I sobbed. My friend, utterly perplexed, attempted to comfort me. I attempted to imitate Jane's face in that horrifying instant, to show him what it had looked like, and I almost vomited. My friend, in an attempt to calm me, mumbled something about a similar expression he'd seen in a medical book; grimacia something or other. I felt weak, as if I'd been through a horrifying ordeal.

Afterwards, I pushed it from my mind. It scared me.

Ten years along, when I was in my mid-30s or so, I was visiting my sister in law. My brother arrived home and began to eat his evening meal. We chatted for some time, the three of us. Then my brother's mood changed abruptly. He recounted how, when he was a little boy, he'd approached the house where I'd had my experience with Jane and heard a strange noise. The front door was open. He carried on up the steps, across the porch and through into the living room. All the while, he continued to hear the strange noise. He reached the kitchen door and peered inside. He saw Jane, seated at the kitchen table, her arms on the table and her face buried in her arms. The strange noise was emanating from Jane.

My brother said he wasn't able to tell if the noise was that of Jane laughing or sobbing; it seemed to be a combination of the two, a sort of disturbing 'uh huh uh huh' sound.

My brother called out to Jane, but she did not acknowledge him. Concerned, my brother moved closer, his hand outstretched.

Then, just as he was about to pat Jane comfortingly on the shoulder, she lifted her face directly into his, at close quarters.

My brother, who is a big, rugged, no-nonsense type of man, looked at me in horror, sickened, as he recalled this. He couldn't explain in words the face he'd seen inside/over Jane's, so he began to try to imitate it. I screamed and buried my face in my hands rather than see it fully, even an imitation.

I then told him of my almost identical experience and when I tried to imitate Jane's face as it had appeared in that horrifying moment, it was my brother who did a male version of scream and turned his face away.

Neither of us was happy to have our individual experience confirmed by that of the other. I told him the incident had been totally blanked from my memory for half my life and that when I had remembered it, I had never known if I'd dreamt or imagined it or if it had really happened. I said I wish I had imagined it, rather than learn now that it was true.

My brother told me he had always remembered it.

For many years, the only conclusion I was able to reach was possession. I believed Jane must be possessed, or at least she must have been at the times my brother and I had those experiences. I'd never taken possession seriously prior to that, nor did I know very much about it at all, nor do I even today. It's not something I enjoy dwelling upon.

I remained scared of Jane, or rather, scared that she may suddenly reveal the 'thing' again to me or -- worst scenario, to my children. I avoided her. I didn't know if possessed individuals had control over their capacity to terrify -- didn't know much at all, other than the whole thing frightened and repelled me.

Then, approx. six months ago, I read an article in which it was explained that in order for a possessing-entity to take possession of someone, that person must be psychic --- and the person to whom the possessing entity reveals itself (through its human vehicle) must also be pyschic. In other words, Jane was psychic as were my brother and myself. Our other sibling who had more contact with Jane than either of us, had never seen the horrifying face which manifested through Jane, nor had others as far as I'm aware.

The only occurrences seem to have been while Jane lived in a particular dwelling and both occurrences involved the same room, in fact involved the same square yard of flooring. Beneath that floor (between the foundations of the house) lay an area of trowelled concrete/cement; a slab of approx. 2 metres square. There was no logical explanation for the slab; the rest of the area beneath the house was dirt. All of this was discovered when we children rescued some animals from under that house. The concrete section was just accepted. No-one was unduly curious about it. An old resident of the town claimed in strictest confidence to Jane that two previous owners back, a son of the family who owned the property at that time had disappeared on his wedding day, never to be seen or heard from again. His wedding clothes, wallet, watch etc. remained laid out on his bed; he had been preparing to dress for his wedding when he vanished. Whether or not this occurred exactly as reported and whether or not it played a role in Jane's horrifying transformation or had any connection with the pointless concrete slab, is impossible to say.

What i can say is that the face superimposed upon or within that of Jane was not her face. It was not human although it utilized Jane's human (and attractive) physical features. The most dominant element of whatever possessed her was that which you choose not to believe in; evil; evil as an independent entity. I've stared into it, or rather, it has stared into me, gloating all the while in its power, malignancy and ability to terrify and shock. Make no mistake; it is powerful and it is independent in the same way the wind is, although logic dictates it has something as its source, whether that is a 'satan' or the accumulated negative thoughts etc. of humans throughout millions of years.

What I'm attempting to describe is beyond my powers of description right now and possibly altogether. I'm reluctant to post this, to be honest, because I suspect it may draw comment suggesting Jane suffered some form of illness, or that my brother or I influenced the other's experience, or that we imagined it, or dreamt it and then believed it was real, etc. I assure you, it occurred as described. Jane was her usual self prior and afterwards. My brother and I did not discuss our experiences in childhood because I did not remember my experience until many years later when I was an adult and at that time I had not been in contact with my brother for a prolonged period. Nor had I told anyone else who in turn told my brother, because I did not remember it and after I did, I told no-one. Further, my brother and I, then and now, have very few people in common.

There are some diabolical people but I don't ascribe their behaviours etc. to 'evil' --- I hold largely responsible the genes they inherited and the circumstances and influences under which they were raised and continue to live. I believe that all but a few seemingly totally 'evil' individuals nevertheless possess at least some positive, redeeming qualities. But I do believe in evil because I've seen it.

I suspect evil is utilized by certain individuals, possibly without their conscious awareness, and that its power is enjoyed by those individuals who mistakenly believe their power and possible good fortune are due to their efforts alone. It's possible evil chooses certain individuals and works through them; uses them as tools.

I fully respect your rejection of this post, if that's what you choose. You have no reason at all to alter your point of view, or to accept anything I have to say. It probably won't hurt you if you never believe in evil as an indepent force or entity.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

It's been speculated that evil may have actual weight

It might sound good, but that's definitely one of the places where I part company from OldTimeRadio's World view.

Pietro, I know of no scientific, philosophical or religious belief-system which equates "it has been speculated that...." with "I totally believe in and would die under torture maintaining that...."

Do YOU?

I don't know whether evil has weight or not - how could I, since I'm not a hundred percent certain that evil exists - I'm merely more convinced than you are. But I'm willing to at least consider the possibility that evil not only exists as a discrete entity or intelligence but that it is also subject (or not subject, for that matter) to certain physical laws. Hey, maybe I'm just flat-out wrong. Where I come from, that's known as a FORTEAN approach.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Again6, this is once more truly profound stuff and thank you for posting it.

I'm a little too sleepy to do it any justice tonight (it's past four AM), but I wanted to at least acknowledge you before trundling off to bed.

Though what a post to go to sleep on....

 

[Pietro_Mercurios]

It's been speculated that evil may have actual weight

It might sound good, but that's definitely one of the places where I part company from OldTimeRadio's World view.

Pietro, I know of no scientific, philosophical or religious belief-system which equates "it has been speculated that...." with "I totally believe in and would die under torture maintaining that...."

Do YOU?

I don't know whether evil has weight or not - how could I, since I'm not a hundred percent certain that evil exists - I'm merely more convinced than you are. But I'm willing to at least consider the possibility that evil not only exists as a discrete entity or intelligence but that it is also subject (or not subject, for that matter) to certain physical laws. Hey, maybe I'm just flat-out wrong. Where I come from, that's known as a FORTEAN approach.

I set forth exactly why I parted company from OldTimeRadio's Post about heavy Evil, in my original Post. OldTimeRadio should perhaps stick to a discourse based on the two differing World viewpoints on the nature of Evil, rather than taking things so personally. Perhaps, we'd all get further?

 

[OldTimeRadio]

....I parted company from OldTimeRadio....

Fine, fine - most people do.

But you still haven't explained why you equate "it has been speculated that...." with "I firmly believe that...." And that was the point of my post.

And what exactly is "heavy Evil"? If I drop it will it hurt my foot?

But all this is starting to drift off-topic here, especially when there are several "evil" threads already on these boards.