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Ian Curtis & Joy Division

MrRING

MrRING

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I was talking to somebody yesterday about how rockin' Joy Division was, and the fact that we had both heard seperate rumors about the band and Curtis' suicide.

#1: The rumor I heard concerned their second album, and the fact that they were recording it at night between midnight and 5 in the morning. The story goes that a mysterious sound track appeared on the album with a phantom sound on it, either music or noise, that no band member made. The band thought it was too disturbing and it was thus mixed out of the final album.

#2 The rumor the other fellow heard was that Ian Curtis didn't just hang himself, but that he cut a smile into his face and either died from the bleeding or then he hanged himself.

I'm going to assume that neither rumor is actually true, but are these rumors specific to Joy Division & their mystique, or have many other bands had similar rumors surrounding them? Or have both rumors had a lively existance?

Or is either one true??
 
Sounds like a bit of folklore to me. Personally, I've never thought that JD had any real mystique - they were just 4 normal blokes, one of whom had problems with depression, who made good, if somwhat sombre, music. I think thee's a tendency to mystify people from the music world, forgetting that for the most part they start out being just normal people.


Yes, even U2.
 
Mr. R.I.N.G. said:
Ian Curtis didn't just hang himself, but that he cut a smile into his face
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this one is exactly what happens to the protagonist of a victor hugo novel (the title sounds like <the laughing man> in italian, i don't know if it's different in english), where a man and a woman working in a circus have a baby and as they want him to become a clown they cut a smile into his face
i would tell you more about the book, but i haven't read it...
 
The Victor Hugo novel sounds exactly like the sort of thing that could have started the rumor. I looked at a few Joy Division sites and alll they would say was that there was no sweeping Romantic or artistic gestures in his suicide, only an individuals pain & depression. And the theatricality of leaving a face-slashed corpse would be fitting in with what people would be expecting or wanting in a legendary death.

The thing with the mysterious track of sound on the second album - that sounds like the sort of thing that could have originated with Black Sabbath or Black Widow or any occult-tinged group, so I'm figuring the rumor is much older than Joy Division... I wonder if some Robert Johnson blues record could eventually be the start of the UL of a demonic/evil/sipernatural track of mysterious music appearing on a record.
 
I remember Curtis's suicide and have read about it since, not on the 'net but in the Guardian and NME.

There was no face-cutting, just what may have been a cry for help/guilt-trip-laying exercise that went wrong. Curtis had made a couple of such attempts and had timed this one, so I have read, to be found and rescued in good time by his wife. Unfortunately circumstances intervened and she found him dead- hanging from the ceiling-mounted clothes dryer in the kitchen.

The poet Sylvia Plath may have made the same mistake, ie 'accidentally' committed suicide when all she really meant to do was scare her husband into compliance.
 
I remember being told ages back that Curtis had hung himself in a wardrobe.

Another UM about it (wot I was told) was that during recording the album, none of the group had heard the whole album "all together". Curtis did ... and was so depressed, he committed suicide. This, I believe, was definite baloney - probably started by someone who didn't like Joy Division.

I quite like `em!
 
I hadn't heard the face-cutting rumour before, but I agree it does sound like an UL. Tony Wilson, admittedly, not the most reliable of sources, given his tendency to embellish the facts and make things up because they sound good, referred to Curtis being laid out in an open coffin (Wilson claims to have adjusted Curtis' collar to hide the rope marks on his neck), so if he had slashed himself, we could maybe have expected some of the people who'd seen the body to mention it.

The "phantom noise" is an interesting one, but then again, producer Martin Hannett was fond of chucking in all sorts of sound effects and eerie noises to create an atmosphere. At the time, the band hated what he did to Unknown Pleasures, as they thought it diluted their own sound, so I would've thought it would be hard for them to pick out any mystery sound over Hannett's tinkering.

Its strange how there seems to be any number of sinister rumours about the deaths of rock musicians in particular; John Lennon murdered by the CIA, Jim Morrison faking his death and fleeing to Africa, Kurt Kobain murdered by persons unknown, Keith Moon deliberately killing himself to "free" the Who from his deteriorating drumming, sightings of the Manics' Ritchey Edwards in Goa (presumably having a jam session with Jungley Barry/ Lord Lucan). Do, say, film stars who die relatively young attract rumours in the same way? I don't recall hearing anything like that about River Phoenix, for example.
 
To the best of my knowledge Ian Curtis also suffered from epilepsy (there was nearly a riot when they had to stop a gig after about 3 songs due to this) and heroin addiction, I rather like JD, the rumours are a new one on me though.

As a point of interest, I once read an interviews with one of the creators of Batman, and he cited as an influence for the Joker a story called 'The man who laughed', which I'm wondering if it may be an alternative translation of the Hugo title.

A slit mouth character also appears in a Japanese film called Ichi the Killer.
 
I first heard the rumour about the mysterious musical tracks about 1990 in undergraduate school. The fellow who told me about it I still see, but only very occasionally - if I see him anytime soon, I'll ask him where he heard about it. But it means that it was a rumor pretty far back in time, at least, and it was reported as news, not conjecture.

The face cutting I just heard about from a guy in my current grad class who was a music editor for the University of Georgia newspaper, and he sited the information as a "cover-up of what really happened".

"The Man Who Laughs" was an excellent Conrad Veidt film (he played Cesare the Sonombolist in Cabnet of Dr. Caligari), and if you look at images from the original appearances of the Joker, he looks exactly like stills from the film.
 
Mr. R.I.N.G. said:
if you look at images from the original appearances of the Joker, he looks exactly like stills from the film.
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Yeah, he does indeed! In the still I've posted here he's a ringer for the initial splash page drawing of the Joker in his first appearance in Batman no. 1 in 1940.

Back to Ian Curtis, and one thing which really creeped me out was hearing the (very) rough demo of In A Lonely Place on the Heart And Soul box set. His vocal sounds like it was recorded in the next room, but that makes it sound all the more eerie. The track cuts out abruptly on the box set before the lines about the hangman and "rope stretches tight then it breaks". I wonder if the tape ran out or if the compilers thought that including the lines was in poor taste?
 
BlackRiverFalls said:
he cited as an influence for the Joker a story called 'The man who laughed', which I'm wondering if it may be an alternative translation of the Hugo title.
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definitely.
 
There's much mention of Victor Hugo, 'The Man Who Laughs' and Gwynplain in James Ellroy's 'The Black Dahlia' too.
 
BlackRiverFalls said:
To the best of my knowledge Ian Curtis also suffered from epilepsy (there was nearly a riot when they had to stop a gig after about 3 songs due to this) and heroin addiction, I rather like JD, the rumours are a new one on me though.
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I never knew about the heroin, but I do remember hearing and reading that he was on barbiturates for a good while before the suicide.
 
im just about to borrow a book written about ian curtis by his wife,had a glance through it and the mate who is lending it to me gave me a brief rundown.It seems Ian Curtis ' epillepsy was worsening ,this and many other things depressed him to the point where he killed himself
 
I know of one apparently documented case of a phantom noise on a song and that is Psychic TV's 'Godstar' which is about the late Rolling Stone, Brian Jones. The song was recorded in a 24 track studio and the 23rd track was left blank during recording. Genesis P.Orridge, who's band it was, claimed that later, there were unexplained noises found on the blank track which seemed to be reacting in time with the song, particularly (IIRC) when the lyrics went "I wish that I were with you now".
 
I read that Jude Law will possibly play him in a film based on his wife's book
 
Rrose Selavy said:
I read that Jude Law will possibly play him in a film based on his wife's book
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Isnt he a bit too handsome?
i always thought Ian Curtis looked a bit like a dancing fish?
 
kishin said:
I know of one apparently documented case of a phantom noise on a song and that is Psychic TV's 'Godstar' which is about the late Rolling Stone, Brian Jones. The song was recorded in a 24 track studio and the 23rd track was left blank during recording. Genesis P.Orridge, who's band it was, claimed that later, there were unexplained noises found on the blank track which seemed to be reacting in time with the song, particularly (IIRC) when the lyrics went "I wish that I were with you now".
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i don't think it's unusual for strange noises to show up on recordings, especially on tape. cool, annoying, but happens quite often.

jude law = ian curtis. i think that could work.
 
I read Deborah's book a few years ago and again this summer. According to her reports (she is the one who walked in and found him) there was no face slash, just the hanging (and not in a wardrobe as I had heard until reading the book).

And her reasons (though being a jilted, widowed wife) was that it was mix of clinical depression, the worsening epilepsy and the love traingle with the groupie (Annick?).

Yes, I heard the same about Jude Law. Though I always thought Tobey McGuire (sp?), as he appeared in the Wonderboys, was a perfect match.

I have also heard nothing about heroin use.

Just my two cents...
 
And with the amount of drugs GPO and Psychic TV were on at the time, there are probably whole songs they don't remember recording, so I think it's a bit hogwash.

Also, on a semi-related note, has anyone noticed how throughout most histories of JD, they never mention Throbbing Gristle of GPO, yet, according to GPO, they were best of friends and Ian even called him the night of the suicide and GPO was 'concerned for his good friend.'

Bunch of crap.

R
 
I had never heard of any connection between Joy Division and Throbbing Gristle/GPO.
 
Ditto here. GPO recorded a track about him, I C Water, on Towards the Infinite Beat, but I think you have to keep in mind that the guy is notoriously full of sh*t:D
 
Genesis P Orridge appears to be changing sex, in the manner of Pete Burns...
 
According to him, it's his latest 'art' project for he and his wife to turn themselves into the same person:rolleyes:

It all strikes me as rather tired, I guess he needed a new gimmick and couldn't think of anything more original than cross dressing.
 
rhedengren said:
I read Deborah's book a few years ago and again this summer. According to her reports (she is the one who walked in and found him) there was no face slash, just the hanging (and not in a wardrobe as I had heard until reading the book).

And her reasons (though being a jilted, widowed wife) was that it was mix of clinical depression, the worsening epilepsy and the love traingle with the groupie (Annick?).

Yes, I heard the same about Jude Law. Though I always thought Tobey McGuire (sp?), as he appeared in the Wonderboys, was a perfect match.

I have also heard nothing about heroin use.

Just my two cents...
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Tobey McGuire defenatly: he looks rather like IIan Curtis (ugly/ beautifull, thin as a verry thin thing...)

I must admit I didn't like YTouching From a Distance. I don't think I'veforgotenhername manages to distance herself enough from her relationship to view the music as a work of art in it's own right.

It's worth a read though.

p.s. odd sounds turning up on analoge tape? Hardly unknown is it?
 
And it's more than just cross-dressing, the man got breasts and a bouffant.

And I believe the interview where GPO was claiming such close association with Ian was a Dave Thompson interview that appeared in his essay about the Post-Punk scene in his(wonderful) Alternative Music encyclopedia. It was either that, or those little Italian lyric/bio books you can find on eBay.

Robert
 
And it's more than just cross-dressing, the man got breasts and a bouffant.
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Oh my yes. I saw a picture of him/her/it a couple of months ago. Wearing a tweed suit, and looked like a Wodehouse aunt.
 
clarrie said:
Oh my yes. I saw a picture of him/her/it a couple of months ago. Wearing a tweed suit, and looked like a Wodehouse aunt.
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how delightfull :)

(OK I'm strange...)
 
Are you sure it wasn't Derek Acorah?


More seriously whenever an artist dies there is some attempt to make their death a poetic or artistic gesture. Either that or they turn it into some elaborate conspiracy as with Kurt Cobain.
It's as if the fans can't comprehend that he was so unhappy with his life despite his success and their worship and so they have to create a fantasy which spreads to become accepted as truth.
 
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