It's Magic Turning More And More Psychopathic?

[C.O.T.]

Hi, do you think that magic is becoming more and more psycopathyc? That is atracting bullysh people, and geting violent?
Why is happening this? What do you think?

 

[escargot]

I cannot comment on whether magic is becoming more and more psychopathic now. But as a teenager in the '70s the self-proclaimed practitioners of it, all big Crowley fans, whom I knew were certainly in it for money and sex.

 

[stu neville]

It depends what people want from it. As escargot rightly said, at the peak of the 70s revival it was all about the material and carnal. Now it's tempting to speculate that there's an element who view it as a means to control.

In my own opinion. as with many Fortean topics, the subject itself is actually neutral and relatively consistent: what varies is societal attitudes towards them, and in that respect Esoterica, Religion and Conspiracy are the three most prismatic. Magic (or rather the practice of) does tend to vary between an image of decadence and the perceived powerless using it for gain. In reality representatives of all groups practice it, but the present climate of unrest and uncertainty those who feel disenfranchised are emphasised.

 

[Naughty_Felid]

Hi, do you think that magic is becoming more and more psycopathyc? That is atracting bullysh people, and geting violent?
Why is happening this? What do you think?

You'd need to explain more what you mean?

 

[C.O.T.]

I feel that as stu says is getting more on the control and power side, with teams that are confronted and where is no space for individual view. This gang like structure retrofeeds itself.
The view of the magician as the individual espiritual searcher, like the medieval Alchemist is very far from this views.
As an example, this post in the forum surprisingly directly from the russian ministry of defence Telepathy.
If you call press to tell them this....

 

[kamalktk]

I cannot comment on whether magic is becoming more and more psychopathic now. But as a teenager in the '70s the self-proclaimed practitioners of it, all big Crowley fans, whom I knew were certainly in it for money and sex.

Teenagers will be into anything for the sex.

 

[escargot]

Teenagers will be into anything for the sex.

They weren't teenagers though, they were mainly men in their 20s/30s recruiting youngsters. At least 10 years older than I was.

One, offended by my scorn, threatened to send something to my house to teach me a lesson.

Yeah, go on, Wanker, can't wait.

 

[Mikefule]

.. as a teenager in the '70s the self-proclaimed practitioners of it, all big Crowley fans, whom I knew were certainly in it for money and sex.

Now it's tempting to speculate that there's an element who view it as a means to control.

I feel that as stu says is getting more on the control and power side...

They weren't teenagers though, they were mainly men in their 20s/30s recruiting youngsters...
One, offended by my scorn, threatened...

A common thread running through the above quotes: in this context, sex is about power, and — often — power is about sex.

If magic works, then using magic to get access to sex is morally the same as using a date rape drug. Rape is generally not about sexual pleasure for its own sake, but using the sex act as an expression of power.

No doubt there are self-professed practitioners of magic who do not seek power or wealth, and use magic to achieve what they consider to be a deeper understanding of and relationship with the world. That is a different thing, and neither better nor worse than subscribing to any other benign belief system.

However, there are certainly people in positions of wealth, power and influence who profess to rely on forms of magic. Noel Edmonds has done pretty well for himself and claims to use "cosmic ordering".

That said, it seems that anyone who achieves a certain level of power (presidents, prime ministers and the like) carefully avoids giving any clues to their use of magic while they are climbing the greasy pole. Either that, or they do it without magic.

As for the opening question, "Is magic becoming more psychopathic?" No. If magic exists, it is a tool or technique. You might as well ask whether knives or pottery are becoming more psychopathic.

However, I do believe that many people living comfortable lives in the affluent west are losing touch with facts and truth, and emphasising their own rights over their responsibilities. In the colloquial use of the word, there may well be more "psychopaths" around because there are so many people who are allowed to feel that they are always right and always entitled.

With more "psychopaths" it would not be surprising to find more of them trying to use magic to achieve their desires "the easy way".

 

[dream_decoder]

It's all just narcissistic delusion anyway. The mind is an incredibly powerful thing, you can use it to transform your own destiny and gain fulfilment, you can use it to persuade others to bend to your will, but, outside yourself, it's about as effective as prayer...

 

[Mikefule]

[magic is] about as effective as prayer...

I believe in neither. However, I came across an interesting reversal of an old story about prayer yesterday.

The original version takes this format: a devout man's house is hit by floods. He climbs on the roof and prays to God to save him. A rowing boat turns up and the occupants invite him to climb aboard. Being devout, he say, "No, thank you. God will save me." He similarly refuses assistance from another rowing boat and, later from a helicopter, before finally drowning. Later, in heaven, he confronts God: "I was devout, I believed, and I prayed to you in my hour of need, and you let me drown." "I can't understand it," says God, "I sent two rowing boats and a helicopter." (There are many versions of this, going back at least to classical Greek times.)

The interesting reversal: An Alaskan atheist is caught out in a blizzard and loses his way. Fearing that he will freeze to death, he breaks his own rules and prays desperately to God to save him, saying, "Save me, and I will believe in you." He slips into unconsciousness, and wakes up later in his cabin having been carried in by two Inuit men who had found him.

Later, he is telling the story to a religious friend. His friend says, "So, you must believe in God now. After all, you're here to prove it."
"No, says the man, I was just found by two Inuit men who were passing."

The point being that events happen and we choose whether to ascribe them to prayer, or magic (etc.) according to our pre-existing beliefs and expectations.

So, yes, you are right: magic is probably about as effective as prayer. The real question is, how effective is that?

 

[C.O.T.]

As the Russian tell you, magic has ever involved telepathy, if you are an skilled magician your prayer will work. Franz Bardon was caugth by the nazis, and imprisioned. Time later, exactly the place was bombed "casually" by planes ,so he could scape. Being one of the most noticeable magicians of the XX century that "casuallity" is quite doubtfull.
I take Bardon into the talk cause, he is one of the less sinister magicians from XX till now, see the others. Well, even one, Hyatt , write a book called explicitly "the psychopaths bible".

 

[catseye]

I cannot comment on whether magic is becoming more and more psychopathic now. But as a teenager in the '70s the self-proclaimed practitioners of it, all big Crowley fans, whom I knew were certainly in it for money and sex.

Like being in a rock band.

 

[C.O.T.]

In COT, we are very concerned about the psychopatic topic on human groups, so had write a brief about this ideas on English if someone would take a look.

 

[WeeScottishLassie]

I've never heard of COT!