Kids Today

[GNC]

I know, it's a conundrum right enough. The vast majority at our school never got belted but I couldn't tell you what was the major motivating factor in their generally good behaviour. For my own part, although the fear of pain must have played some part, I'm pretty sure I remember just not wanting to get in trouble, whatever the punishment. I hated the feeling it gave me in the pit of my stomach.

I think I may have just countered my own argument

This could get profound! As a wise man said, guilt prevents us from doing terrible things, so if you're one of those people who don't have that in your personality... well, I don't like to think about the consequences. Or what caused it in the first place.

 

[Ginando]

I grew up in an era where teachers in Scotland were allowed to use a leather 'strap' or tawse to whack you across the hand or hands if you misbehaved.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Tawse_2.jpg

I have seen and heard arguments for and against corporal punishment. For my part, the occasional application of the strap didn't do me any harm, and I have grown up to be, I hope, fairly balanced and decent. However I have never considered the threat of the strap or application of it actually made the slightest difference to the person I have become. I say that because I can also recall one male in our fourth year who was strapped several times a day and he turned out to be a complete sh*t and career criminal.

The flip side of things is the 'no physical punishment' adherants. I was heavily involved in the setting up of a Restorative Justice program for young offenders. As such I worked in partnership with several organisations including social workers. One of the social workers was particularly vehement in her rejection of physical punishment. When challenged on this by another of our partners about how to deal with particularly horrible children, she explained that she 'withdrew love' from them. I was at a loss to understand how this worked so she explained that she had a system where, if her children were naughty, she wouldn't speak to them or tuck them into bed or read to them or cuddle them. This would go on sometimes for several days depending on the severity of their naughtiness. To my mind thats a horrible punishment and far more likely to cause long term problems than any belt on the backside (or thigh as was my mothers target area of choice) ever did.

Who's right and who's wrong? I don't know. I do think that to try to legislate against any form of physical chastisement is a waste of time. The existing laws on assault are more than sufficient to deal with parents/carers who overstep the mark and they are used when appropriate.

The use of restorative justice, which instils or reinforces feelings of shame, is one which I think has great merit, and I have seen it in action with some really difficult children on whom it had a profound and long term effect turning several children away from anti-social behaviour.

 

[ramonmercado]

The problem is that if physical punishment is allowed at all then it will be abused. Kids will be beaten because they don't know answers or don't understand the subject in question.

some teachers will beat kids because they are in bad humour, some because they get a thrill from it.

Thats the problem.

I'm really sickened though that a primary school teacher thinks he should have the right to use vioence against preteens.

Right now you get assaults on teachers but I reckon it would mushroom if teachers were allowed to assailt pupils. theres a lot of big brothers and sisters (and some parents) who wouldn't tolerate it.

 

[rynner2]

Beating children for not knowing answers or not understanding things doesn't make sense.

Nobody has suggested it does.

But the threat of a beating, if a child wilfully transgresses clearly laid out rules of social behaviour, does.

Corporal punishment as a deterrent make sense because only the foolish and thoughtless actually get beaten.

If they continue in their deliquency, then it must be assumed that they don't possess normal understanding of right and wrong behaviour, so some kind of psychiatric treatment might be called for.

(NOT further corporal punishment.)

 

[rynner2]

I'm really sickened though that a primary school teacher thinks he should have the right to use vio[l]ence against preteens.

But who has suggested this?

Normal society would not countenance this anyway. (Depending on how you define 'violence', of course.)

But teenagers are supposed to have reached the age of reason, and thus to understand the likely consequences of anti-social behaviour.

 

[ramonmercado]

But its what happened when teachers could beat kids. & will happen again if teachers get those powers.

 

[escargot]

Who's going to do the beating? Who in their right mind would own up to wanting to do it, in this day and age, and what would the rest of us think of any teacher who did?

Or will schools get external contractors in? Some sort of perepetetic pupil-punishers? :lol:

We'll be flogging disobedient sailors next, you'll see.

 

[Yithian]

I teach abroad.

A couple of years ago, I was presented with the opportunity to physically discipline a particularly unpleasant 15yr old. The suggested method was with a ruler, across the palms.

His parents suggested this course of action as this particular instance - spitting in a classroom (almost unheard of in this neck 'o the woods) - was far from being an isolated incident.

I declined, with the fairly obvious explanation that it wasn't my job to discipline children. The unspoken suggested being - of course - that it was the parents'.

I have - personally speaking - a general distaste for physical punishment, but then i don't (as yet) have children. If parents believe corporal punishment may help, they should be free to act on this belief within the limits of the law. Outside of its broad remit of child-protection, the state should neither officially sanction physical punishment in schools, nor be telling people how to parent. It's role should be to advise.

I was smacked: often deservingly, occasionally not. I neither fear nor thirst for violence and have a, more or less, normal relationship with my parents.

Hence, I conclude, from my isolated case, that such discipline need not have a negative results.

 

[ramonmercado]

Who's going to do the beating? Who in their right mind would own up to wanting to do it, in this day and age, and what would the rest of us think of any teacher who did?

Or will schools get external contractors in? Some sort of perepetetic pupil-punishers? :lol:

We'll be flogging disobedient sailors next, you'll see.

Theres plenty of them. Look at that primary teacher above. He wants to beat little kids.

 

[rynner2]

Teenagers are less intelligent than a generation ago, claims study
The number of exceptionally bright teenagers is significantly lower than a generation ago, a new study claims.
By Charlotte Bailey
Last Updated: 7:48AM GMT 27 Oct 2008

The most intelligent 14-year-old in 2008 is now only on a par with the brightest 12-year-old in 1976, according to the findings.

Researchers at King's College, London, asked 800 children aged 13 and 14 to take a series of tests which measured their understanding of abstract scientific concepts such as volume, density, quantity and weight.

The results were compared with a similar exercise in 1976.

In a test known as the pendulum test just over one in ten were found to have reached top grades which demanded a 'higher level of thinking', a significant drop from the 1976 result of one in four.

In a second test, which assessed mathematical thinking skills, one in five youngsters in 1976 had achieved high grades whereas the figure from the most recent study was only one in 20.

But average achievement was found to be similar in teenagers from both generations.

Professor Michael Shayar, who led the study, said: "The pendulum test does not require any knowledge of science at all. It looks at how people can deal with complex information and sort it out for themselves."

He believes that the decline in brainpower has happened over the last ten to 15 years and could be a result of national curriculum targets which drill children for tests as well as changes in children's leisure activities, such as an increase in computer games and television watching.

www.telegraphttp://h.co.uk/news/newstopics/ ... study.html

 

[rynner2]

Generation gap - wider than ever, or what?
Do kids have parents? Are parents adults?

UK society 'condemning' children

More than half the population believe UK children are "feral" and behave like animals, a survey has suggested.

Half of the 2,021 adults interviewed by YouGov for the poll also felt children should be regarded as "dangerous".

Children's charity Barnardo's, which commissioned the study, said society "casually condemned" children.

It is behind a controversial awareness campaign, with TV and internet adverts showing adults hunting "vermin", which turn out to be children.

The adverts, intended to show how society demonises young people, will be launched on 24 November.

Some 54% of the adults questioned thought that British children behaved like "animals".

More than a third of those surveyed also agreed that the streets were "infested" with children, while 43% said something had to be done to protect adults.

Around 49% said they disagreed with the statement that children who "get into trouble" were "misunderstood" and needed professional help.
The charity also examined comments left on stories published on the website of several national newspapers.

Staff found messages where children were described as "feral" and some suggestions teenagers should be "shot".

The charity's chief executive Martin Narey said the British population was guilty of labelling all children in the same way.

He said: "It is appalling that words like animal, feral and vermin are used daily in reference to children.

"Despite the fact that most children are not troublesome there is still a perception that today's young people are a more unruly, criminal lot than ever before.

"The British public overestimates, by a factor of four, the amount of crime committed by young people.

"The real crime is that this sort of talk and attitude does nothing to help those young people who are difficult, unruly or badly behaved to change their ways."

The charity claimed that the attitudes revealed by its study reflected the results of the latest British Crime Survey.

These showed that people blame children for "up to half of all crime" when in fact they are only responsible for 12% of criminal activity.

Last month, the United Nations said there was a "general climate of intolerance" towards British children and this could result in them being treated unfairly.

Barnardo's has also published a report called Breaking the Cycle.

The report stated that children who carry out illegal and antisocial behaviour were those most in need of support.

It also claimed that young people who become involved in criminal activity come from the most deprived families, have the poorest educational experiences and are more likely to suffer from poor health.

Mr Narey said the charity was not "naive" and accepted a "minority of children" were anti-social and committed crimes.

He said action had to be taken to prevent those at risk of criminal behaviour from following that path.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7732290.stm

 

[lupinwick]

Wonder how many interviewed are parents or have any contact with kids? You also have to wonder what their background is?

More to the point, has the perception of kids changed that much over the various generations?

 

[rynner2]

Mixed messages...

Police chief calls to bring back a clip round the ear for naughty children
By Andrew Levy
Last updated at 1:30 AM on 20th November 2008

One of Britain's most senior police officers has called for members of the public to tackle low-level crime among children.

Ian McPherson, the chief constable of Norfolk, said society should return to a time when park keepers, wardens, and other adults could do something about local problems.

Attacking a survey which this week revealed half of all adults consider today's children to be feral, he insisted most were 'fundamentally good' and would respond if shown the error of their ways.

Britain, he said, was in danger of pursuing a 'law and order arms race' in which increasing power was being handed to the police and courts
without doing anything to tackle the root causes of youth crime.

And though he didn't refer directly to children being 'clipped around the ears' , his comments clearly refer to a time when members of the public took summary action when children misbehaved.

'I don't believe things are any worse now then they were 20 or 30 years ago - the vast majority of youngsters are intrinsically decent and most will never be in trouble with the police,' said Mr McPherson, the Association of Chief Police Officers' spokesman on children and young people.

'It is time that we as a society accepted responsibility. If people see something in the street that they do not approve of, they should absolutely feel able to do something to stop it.

'Why shouldn't we return to a time when park keepers, wardens, parents and the public in general are able to do something about the problems they see around them?'

Mr McPherson said he would 'not hesitate in throwing the book at the small number of serious and persistent offenders' but added it was not the solution for most cases.

The comments came in the week that children's charity Barnardo's released a survey which found half of adults thought children were ' beginning to behave like animals' and considered them 'feral'.

It warned the public had developed a 'disturbing intolerance of the young'.

But critics said Mr McPherson's suggestions were unrealistic.

Nick Seaton, of the Campaign for Real Education, added: 'He seems to be suggesting a return to a golden age when children were ticked off or occasionally given a clip round the ear for some minor offence and would learn their lesson and grow up to be a model citizen.

'Unfortunately, the reality today is that anyone who interferes is at risk of being attacked by the person they are telling off or being arrested for assault.'

David Green, director of the Civitas think-tank, said: 'The problem is people are not sure if the police will back them up.'

Official figures released last week revealed the number of under-18s getting into trouble with police had gone up by a fifth in five years.

More than 93,000 ten to 17-year-olds received their first caution or conviction last year, compared with just 78,000 in 2002.

Violent crime has also soared in recent years and there is a burgeoning knife and gun culture among the young.

Two months ago millionaire banker Frank McGarahan, 45, was beaten to death in Norwich after ticking off a mob who were attacking a couple. Two brothers have been charged with murder.

And a husband who stood up to a 13-year-old yob shouting abuse at his wife was last month convicted of assault.

Stephan Toth, 34, of Margate, Kent, who had taken the boy by the shoulders and guided him to his mother's house, was told by a magistrate: 'Next time, walk away.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ldren.html

 

[rynner2]

This seems wrong to me, the thin end of a PC wedge...

Words associated with Christianity and British history taken out of children's dictionary
Words associated with Christianity, the monarchy and British history have been dropped from a leading dictionary for children.

Julie Henry, Education Correspondent
Last Updated: 2:47PM GMT 07 Dec 2008

Oxford University Press has removed words like "aisle", "bishop", "chapel", "empire" and "monarch" from its Junior Dictionary and replaced them with words like "blog", "broadband" and "celebrity". Dozens of words related to the countryside have also been culled.

The publisher claims the changes have been made to reflect the fact that Britain is a modern, multicultural, multifaith society.

But academics and head teachers said that the changes to the 10,000 word Junior Dictionary could mean that children lose touch with Britain's heritage.

"We have a certain Christian narrative which has given meaning to us over the last 2,000 years. To say it is all relative and replaceable is questionable," said Professor Alan Smithers, the director of the centre for education and employment at Buckingham University. "The word selections are a very interesting reflection of the way childhood is going, moving away from our spiritual background and the natural world and towards the world that information technology creates for us."

An analysis of the word choices made by the dictionary lexicographers has revealed that entries from "abbey" to "willow" have been axed. Instead, words such as "MP3 player", "voicemail" and "attachment" have taken their place.

Lisa Saunders, a worried mother who has painstakingly compared entries from the junior dictionaries, aimed at children aged seven or over, dating from 1978, 1995, 2000, 2002, 2003 and 2007, said she was "horrified" by the vast number of words that have been removed, most since 2003.

"The Christian faith still has a strong following," she said. "To eradicate so many words associated with the Christianity will have a big effect on the numerous primary schools who use it."

Ms Saunders realised words were being removed when she was helping her son with his homework and discovered that "moss" and "fern", which were in editions up until 2003, were no longer listed.

"I decide to take a closer look and compare the new version to the other editions," said the mother of four from Co Down, Northern Ireland. "I was completely horrified by the vast number of words which have been removed. We know that language moves on and we can't be fuddy-duddy about it but you don't cull hundreds of important words in order to get in a different set of ICT words."

Anthony Seldon, the master of Wellington College, a leading private school in Berkshire, said: "I am stunned that words like "saint", "buttercup", "heather" and "sycamore" have all gone and I grieve it.

"I think as well as being descriptive, the Oxford Junior Dictionary, has to be prescriptive too, suggesting not just words that are used but words that should be used. It has a duty to keep these words within usage, not merely pander to an audience. We are looking at the loss of words of great beauty. I would rather have "marzipan" and "mistletoe" then "MP3 player."

Oxford University Press, which produces the junior edition, selects words with the aid of the Children's Corpus, a list of about 50 million words made up of general language, words from children's books and terms related to the school curriculum. Lexicographers consider word frequency when making additions and deletions.

Vineeta Gupta, the head of children's dictionaries at Oxford University Press, said: "We are limited by how big the dictionary can be – little hands must be able to handle it – but we produce 17 children's dictionaries with different selections and numbers of words.

"When you look back at older versions of dictionaries, there were lots of examples of flowers for instance. That was because many children lived in semi-rural environments and saw the seasons. Nowadays, the environment has changed. We are also much more multicultural. People don't go to Church as often as before. Our understanding of religion is within multiculturalism, which is why some words such as "Pentecost" or "Whitsun" would have been in 20 years ago but not now."

She said children's dictionaries were trailed in schools and advice taken from teachers. Many words are added to reflect the age-related school curriculum.

Words taken out:

Carol, cracker, holly, ivy, mistletoe :shock:

Dwarf, elf, goblin

Abbey, aisle, altar, bishop, chapel, christen, disciple, minister, monastery, monk, nun, nunnery, parish, pew, psalm, pulpit, saint, sin, devil, vicar

Coronation, duchess, duke, emperor, empire, monarch, decade

adder, ass, beaver, boar, budgerigar, bullock, cheetah, colt, corgi, cygnet, doe, drake, ferret, gerbil, goldfish, guinea pig, hamster, heron, herring, kingfisher, lark, leopard, lobster, magpie, minnow, mussel, newt, otter, ox, oyster, panther, pelican, piglet, plaice, poodle, porcupine, porpoise, raven, spaniel, starling, stoat, stork, terrapin, thrush, weasel, wren.

Acorn, allotment, almond, apricot, ash, bacon, beech, beetroot, blackberry, blacksmith, bloom, bluebell, bramble, bran, bray, bridle, brook, buttercup, canary, canter, carnation, catkin, cauliflower, chestnut, clover, conker, county, cowslip, crocus, dandelion, diesel, fern, fungus, gooseberry, gorse, hazel, hazelnut, heather, holly, horse chestnut, ivy, lavender, leek, liquorice, manger, marzipan, melon, minnow, mint, nectar, nectarine, oats, pansy, parsnip, pasture, poppy, porridge, poultry, primrose, prune, radish, rhubarb, sheaf, spinach, sycamore, tulip, turnip, vine, violet, walnut, willow

Words put in:

Blog, broadband, MP3 player, voicemail, attachment, database, export, chatroom, bullet point, cut and paste, analogue

Celebrity, tolerant, vandalism, negotiate, interdependent, creep, citizenship, childhood, conflict, common sense, debate, EU, drought, brainy, boisterous, cautionary tale, bilingual, bungee jumping, committee, compulsory, cope, democratic, allergic, biodegradable, emotion, dyslexic, donate, endangered, Euro

Apparatus, food chain, incisor, square number, trapezium, alliteration, colloquial, idiom, curriculum, classify, chronological, block graph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/35 ... onary.html

 

[JamesWhitehead]

The story has an agenda so it is hard to say exactly how fairly those lists represent the changes in the contents of the dictionary.

It may be that the author has selected all the most evocative words that have been omitted and all the most horrible ones now included.

On the face of it, though, it's going to be harder to encourage a love of words when the words themselves are so joyless or evoke such joyless things.

You would think that the remoteness of these sensuous pastoral experiences from the daily lives of most children would make it more not less important for them to be enjoyed through language.

It is noted that the "age-related school curriculum" is the driving force behind these book revisions and it will be emblazoned on their covers and publicity materials, as if to make their purchase mandatory. Dictionaries have not, so far, been controversial and OUP has undisputed market-leader status. I have seen their high prices questioned, however, and one school was planning to examine the possibility of sourcing cheap school dictionaries from a Publishers' Remainder type chain. Maybe that cheaper, generic School Dictionary would be a more cheerful option too. 8)

 

[escargot]

Yup. This isn't a list of all the words kids're allowed to use - it's a dictionary. How many children even pick one up*, outside their one 'how to use a dictionary' lesson?

*apart from 13 year olds looking for dirty words, of course.

 

[rynner2]

Maybe it'll work to the good.

If kids come across words like elf, abbey, monastery, sin, devil, and even vicar elsewhere, and then, not finding them in this dictionary, become fascinated with the words and their undefined meanings, they might well search further afield, and thus learn (and remember) the things that were apparently kept from them.

In fact, the words that were apparently censored may well become more important and evocative than all the everyday words that were included.

I remember my own childish surprise when I found that King Arthur was not included in a list of the kings of England that I found in a children's encyclopedia - and what a wonderful world of myth and legend that led me into!

 

[ramonmercado]

Didn't we have a discussionon bringing back physical punishment in schools recently? Who still thinks its a good idea? Ah yes! Beating kids to dath never did them any harm!

Egypt teacher tried over beating
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7793156.stm

Islam Amr Badr died in hospital after being injured (Photo: Al Masry Alyoum)
An Egyptian mathematics teacher has appeared in court in Alexandria accused of beating an 11-year-old to death because he did not do his homework.

After using a ruler, Haitham Nabeel Abdelhamid, 23, allegedly took the boy outside the classroom and hit him violently in his stomach.

Islam Amr Badr fainted and later died in hospital of heart failure.

Observers say the case has been seen as a shocking reminder of the failings of Egypt's state education system.

The incident, at Saad Othman Primary School on the outskirts of Alexandria in October, caused national outrage.

'Discipline'

Islam Amr Badr's classmates gave evidence on Saturday, describing how the boy was hit by his teacher during a maths lesson. The problem is the teaching and the teachers because they cannot find good teachers

Amr Badr Ibrahim
Dead boy's father

They said he was being punished for not having done his homework.

The court also heard from medical staff who examined the boy in hospital and a doctor who carried out a post-mortem examination.

The boy had two broken ribs, and stomach injuries which caused a sharp drop in his blood pressure and heart failure, says the BBC's Yolande Knell in Cairo.

Mr Abdul Hamid has said he only meant to discipline his pupil and did not mean to hurt anyone.

Reform 'on way'

The Egyptian education minister is expected to be called as a witness during the trial, which has been adjourned to Sunday.

Islam's father, Amr Badr Ibrahim, says others should stand trial with his son's teacher.

"The problem is the teaching and the teachers because they cannot find good teachers," he said.

"The minister of education should be the first person to be accused - how can he agree to let such a young man teach children?"

In the state education system, young, inexperienced and under-resourced teachers often struggle to control classes of 60 to 100 children.

The Egyptian government says it is bringing in education reforms - including new teacher testing.

It is also trying to tackle violence in schools and has issued new statements on the prohibition of corporal punishment.

 

[Yithian]

Didn't we have a discussion on bringing back physical punishment in schools recently? Who still thinks its a good idea? Ah yes! Beating kids to death never did them any harm!

I don't think the impact of industrial-scale trawling is an argument against fly-fishing, do you?

 

[ramonmercado]

Didn't we have a discussion on bringing back physical punishment in schools recently? Who still thinks its a good idea? Ah yes! Beating kids to death never did them any harm!

I don't think the impact of industrial-scale trawling is an argument against fly-fishing, do you?

My point is that there are teachers in both Ireland and Britain who are capable of beating children to death, by "accident". The Egyptian teacher didnt intend to kill the kid.

This isnt about fishing, its about children. Earlier in this thread there is a quote rom an English techer who eants to use violence against preteen children. I think he should the subject of a police investigation.

 

[Anome]

Fatal Beatings

 

[ramonmercado]

Assault teacher's home attacked

Police are investigating an attack on the home of a Dundee teacher who was found guilty of assaulting two pupils.

Eggs were thrown at the windows of Mike Barile's house in the Downfield area of the city on Monday night.

It has also been reported that several car tyres have been destroyed, glue was squirted into his front door lock and his wife had been verbally abused.

Mr Barile, 51, was convicted last week of grabbing one pupil by the jumper and pinning another against a wall.

He is to appeal against the conviction.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scot ... 798831.stm

 

[Yithian]

Earlier in this thread there is a quote from an English teacher who wants to use violence against pre-teen children. I think he should the subject of a police investigation.

I can't find the quote, but i'm not sure anyone should be investigated for wanting to commit a crime. I think it's better to wait until there's evidence they've actually committed one.

 

[rynner2]

Happily, not all kids are evil, murderous scumbags

Cub scout achieves badges record

A 10-year-old boy has gained all 33 cub scout badges in what the Scout Association says is a first for the UK.

Ben Spratling, from Norwich, in Norfolk, completed activities including canoeing, hiking and horse riding to become a national record breaker.

"It took me nearly two years, it was very difficult to accomplish but I feel quite proud," he said.

The number of badges on offer to cub scouts was increased this year to 33 - the highest number in scouting history.

Ben said the most important badge that he had gained was emergency aid, as he now felt confident to help friends in an accident.

But he enjoyed his adventure badge the most because it taught him how to camp out with his friends.

Cub scout badges include:
Air activities
Animal carer
Artist
Astronomer
Athlete
Athlete plus
Book reader
Camper
Chef
Collector
Communicator
Cyclist
DIY
Entertainer
Equestrian
Global Conservation
Hobbies
Home help
Home safety
Local knowledge
Map reader
Martial arts
My faith
Naturalist
Navigator
Personal safety
Physical reaction
Road safety
Scientist
Skater
Sports enthusiast
Water activities
World faiths

Ben's mother, Debs Spratling, said she was thrilled that he had been awarded his final badge in time for Christmas.

"Ben has had a fantastic time trying out all the different activities and he's learned so much in the process.

"Joining the scouts has given Ben the chance to experience a huge range of activities.

"There is simply no other organisation in our area that provides eight to 10-year-olds with the opportunity to try activities ranging from canoeing and climbing to hiking and DIY."

A Scout Association spokesman said: "With regards to Ben's achievements, he has become the first cub scout in the UK to achieve his own personal challenge to complete all 33 activity badges.

"There has never been so many activity badges available to be gained by cub scouts before, so Ben holds the record."

The Scout Association says it reviews the programmes it offers to members regularly to ensure that they are relevant.

The badges reflect their changing demands and interests while encouraging a healthy lifestyle, the association says.

"Many of the scouts up and down the country experience these activities already, the only difference being now they can be rewarded with a badge for their efforts," the spokesman added.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7797421.stm

 

[Yithian]

Looking down the list of badges there're a few new ones and most of the ones i recall from twenty-plus years back. That said 'My Faith' sounds... suspicious and "'inclusively' exclusive" - What if you don't have one!?

If i recall, the Cub-Scout promise is to God (singular & capitalised) and the Queen. Not much flexibilty there; surprised they've not been outlawed by [Za]nu Labour...

 

[escargot]

Tell you what Ryn, why don't you report the Cub Scout Association to the Daily Mail for. ooh, something?

Off you go - toddle along...

 

[Littlegreylady]

Looking down the list of badges there're a few new ones and most of the ones i recall from twenty-plus years back. That said 'My Faith' sounds... suspicious and "'inclusively' exclusive" - What if you don't have one!?

If i recall, the Cub-Scout promise is to God (singular & capitalised) and the Queen. Not much flexibilty there; surprised they've not been outlawed by [Za]nu Labour...

I don't know if it's the same for the scouts but when I was in the guides in the 90s, they changed the wording of the promise to include people of other faiths. The promise became to "my God". As an atheist however I felt I was still being missed out

 

[Mrs_Fouvant]

Back when I was a primary school youngster in the early 80's I refused point blank to join the Brownies due to the fact you had to promise to serve God. I remember thinking it was such a stupid idea!

An Atheist at the age of 7 - Richard Dawkins would be proud!

 

[ramonmercado]

Earlier in this thread there is a quote from an English teacher who wants to use violence against pre-teen children. I think he should the subject of a police investigation.

I can't find the quote, but i'm not sure anyone should be investigated for wanting to commit a crime. I think it's better to wait until there's evidence they've actually committed one.

Heres the piece. I reckon this guy is potentially dangerous. FFS! Hes talking about assaulting preteen kids. I wonder how tough he would be against some one his own size or bigger?

03-10-2008 09:52 Post subject:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is the tide beginning to turn..?

Cane is needed again to give children a lesson say a fifth of teachers
Nicola Woolcock

A fifth of teachers would like to see the cane re-introduced in Britain's schools, research has found. They said children's behaviour had deteriorated to the point that caning would be an effective punishment.

Ravi Kasinathan, a primary teacher who also “strongly” supported the idea, said: “There is justification, or an argument, for bringing back corporal punishment, if only as a deterrent. I believe some children just don't respond to the current sanctions.”

The survey suggests that support for corporal punishment is strongest among secondary teachers: 22 per cent back the idea, compared with
16 per cent of primary teachers. It also uncovers much lower support among heads and deputy and assistant heads: 12 per cent, compared with 22 per cent of teachers.

John Dunford, of the Association of School and College Leaders, said: “Thankfully, corporal punishment is no longer on the agenda, except in the most uncivilised countries. I am sure that this barbaric punishment has disappeared for ever.”

An official at the Department for Children, Schools and Families said: “Violence against children is clearly unacceptable and illegal.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 870749.ece

 

[rynner2]

Two-year-olds 'to be screened for speech problems'
Toddlers could be screened for speech problems after evidence that many are so addicted to television and video games that they are failing to learn basic communication skills.
By John Bingham
Last Updated: 8:55AM GMT 02 Jan 2009

An ambitious nationwide screening programme for two-year-olds is reportedly being considered to tackle the problem which experts say is now more prevalent than dyslexia or autism.

The decline of the traditional family meal time, the long-hours culture in the parents' workplaces, poor childcare with little stimulation and social deprivation are also being blamed.

Barely a 10th of children in some areas can repeat even one nursery rhyme and, in extreme cases, some do not even know their own name.

The screening programme is being considered after a review into services for children with speech problems led by the Tory MP John Bercow.

Tests could be carried out by health visitors in a similar way to that in which they check eyesight, hearing and general development.

Mr Bercow concluded that children with untreated speech difficulties are at risk of ending up unemployed, experiencing mental health problems and involved in crime.

"If children are in a home in which they are getting insufficient stimulation, where there is not enough interaction, or where communication through the spoken word is not as common or extensive or imaginative as it might be, that is bound to have an impact," he told the Daily Mail.

"The reality is that for far too long, speech and language problems have been under-recognised."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/ed ... blems.html