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garrick92 said:Depends how high they were orbiting. They're not really 'moon sized', they're more 'crappy little pebble' sized.
garrick92 said:Depends how high they were orbiting. They're not really 'moon sized', they're more 'crappy little pebble' sized.
No need to make up a word, Lupus, astronomers already have one - it's ALBEDO.Lupus Yonderboy said:It also depends on the objects reflectivity (I think I might have just made up a word ).
rynner said:No need to make up a word, Lupus, astronomers already have one - it's ALBEDO.
Xanatic said:That article was far out. It seemed stupid how they complained that science never knew anything for sure. That we only knew approximatly. I just think it shows they're not as arrogant as the people they say know for sure because it says so in an old book.
TorgosPizza said:I e-mailed Cornell's astronomy dept about this over a week ago, and still no answer. Hm....
Lupus Yonderboy said:http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/cometary/76P_phobos1.html
I just finished reading the article....and to be honest its going to take me some time to comment on this one. See for yourself.
Hermes said:I followed this link in FT's own Breaking News section to a site that poses this important (for Mars) question...(
Pics and link on page.The two moons of Mars -- Phobos and Deimos -- could be the byproducts of a breakup of a huge moon that once circled the red planet, according to a new theory.
The capture of a large Martian satellite may have taken place during or shortly after the formation of the planet, with Phobos and Deimos now the surviving remnants.
Origin of the two moons presents a longstanding puzzle to which one researcher proposed the new solution at the 6th International Conference on Mars, held here last week.
"Nobody has been able to explain the origin of Phobos and Deimos," said S. Fred Singer, an atmospheric physicist, and professor emeritus of environmental sciences at the University of Virginia, and the president of the Arlington (Virginia)-based Science & Environmental Policy Project, a non-profit policy institute.
Violating laws
Based on research performed as a visiting scientist at the Lunar & Planetary Institute in Houston in October 2002, Singer said that conventional hypotheses about the moons either violate physical laws or have difficulty accounting for their observed orbits.
Singer reported at the meeting that "there are no ready alternatives to explain the origin of the Martian moons."
At present, both satellites have near-circular and near-equatorial orbits.
Phobos' orbit, however, has been observed to shrink since its discovery in 1877. The present track of Deimos -- just beyond the synchronous limit where it nearly matches the spin rate of Mars - is an important data point, Singer said.
"Is that by accident? I don't think so…it gives you a clue about its origin," he told SPACE.com.
Through a complex set of orbital calculations involving Mars, the large hypothetical Mars moon itself, and tracing back in time the past and present whereabouts of Phobos and Deimos, Singer believes he has a case.
In the Singer scenario, the close proximity of a large original moon to the red planet - captured in Mars synchronous orbit -- would have eventually fractured the object. Gravitational pushes and tugs would have turned it into a rubble pile that would still cling together gravitationally.
"Forces would soon drive the largest pieces into Mars, with the smallest pieces remaining as Phobos and Deimos," Singer said. In the breakup process, the most massive pieces would spiral in far more rapidly, crashing into the planet. "We need to look for some sign that these existed.
Phobos: going, going, gone
A fundamental prediction by Singer is that the moons are similar in composition and petrology. However, Phobos and Deimos do not appear to be comparable. That distinction is obvious in looking at the differences in their regoliths - each moon's topside covering.
"We need both surface and deep samples to decide this issue, and to investigate whether Phobos and Deimos once formed as parts of a larger body, most of which has now disappeared, perhaps by impacting on Mars," Singer said.
Singer said Phobos will die in a few million years.
"We're lucky in the sense that we're seeing Phobos while it's still around," he said.
Destination Deimos
Singer has plans for Deimos.
The scientist believes the moon would serve as a natural space station for future human explorers.
"First of all, humans on the surface of Mars cannot really do the exploration directly. They have to use rovers to get around. To go from the equator to a pole on Mars just takes too long. It's a big, dangerous journey," Singer said.
What Singer envisions is a Deimos gateway to extensive Mars exploration. An encampment of astronauts would reside on the Martian moon. From there, dozens of rovers could be autopiloted, in real-time.
"There would be no time delay, or so short that it's within the human reaction time," Singer said. From Deimos, quick, down-to-the-surface sorties could be undertaken by humans to select areas, he added.
"This would be a 15-year project, as I look at it. It would cost roughly billion, funded at some billion a year average. That's well within the existing NASA budget," Singer said.
On the political side, Congress is not likely to fund a long series of robotic roving probes to Mars that extends over decades.
"That would not be a very efficient way of studying Mars. If you want to solve the really big problems of Mars, like origin of life, you need to do this in one fell swoop," Singer concluded.
The case for a mission to Mars' moon Phobos
Ask any space enthusiast, and almost anyone will say humankind's ultimate destination is Mars. But NASA is currently gearing up to go to an asteroid. While the space agency says its Asteroid Initiative will help in the eventual goal of putting people on Mars, what if instead of going to an asteroid, we went to Mars' moon Phobos?
Three prominent planetary scientists have joined forces in a new paper in the Journal Planetary and Space Science to explain the case for a mission to the moons of Mars, particularly Phobos.
"Phobos occupies a unique position physically, scientifically, and programmatically on the road to exploration of the solar system," say the scientists. In addition, the moons may possibly be a source of in situ resources that could support future human exploration in circum-Mars space or on the Martian surface. But a sample return mission first could provide details on the moons' origins and makeup.
The Martian moons are riddles, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. Phobos and its sibling Deimos seem like just two asteroids which were captured by the planet Mars, and they remain the last objects of the inner solar system not yet studied with a dedicated mission. But should the moons be explored with flybys or sample-return? Should we consider "boots or bots"?
The publications and mission concepts for Phobos and Deimos are numerous and go back decades. The authors of "The Value of a Phobos Sample Return," Murchie, Britt and Pieters, explore the full breadth of questions of why and how to explore Phobos and Deimos. ...
"The case for a mission to Mars' moon Phobos." October 2nd, 2014. http://phys.org/news/2014-10-case-missi ... hobos.html