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"Meeting Nicola"

Steven said:
You mean that wasn't her angry face?!?!? :oops: :D

More seriously, and in reference to my jokey comment above, I think my fear is influenced by what may be a mistake: my assumption, influenced by films and books and real-life accounts, that Nicola's beauty might be a 'mask'. I don't mean that she is really a 'hag' - as often featured in roadside ghost stories - but rather that she may not be as she appears.
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Yes, I can understand that. This calls back to what in Folklore are called the Sirens.
 
Damien said:
I came so close, so close to finding out about something which we are, it appears, not allowed to know. I consider the facts and memories every day and I will go to my grave without ever knowing the answer… but the fact that I came so close bothers me more than you can know.
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A novel I admire, and which I'm always boring everyone to tears about at any opportunity, is Peter Straub's Ghost Story. This book has had a massive influence on me and on my (amateurish) writing; for me, it encapsulates supernatural tales from the earliest, ancient 'campfire stories' to the age of cinema.

In Ghost Story, there are several elements similar to the 'Nicola' account:

* A great, yet terrible, beauty those background is only suggested. To those men who find themselves intoxicated by her overwhelming presence, her air of mystery, she somehow seems timeless and even her true and sinister nature has a dark glamour; for all her surface charm, she is strangely frightening. She may be the shapeshifter of ageless renown. She may be essentially unknowable, but her mystery beguiles us. For all this, it is implied, the men should examine themselves for the key to this enigma (admittedly, this is in line with one of my crackpot theories: that the ghosts & such that we see may be emblematic of our deeper and perhaps secret selves).

* The novel's antagonist, Eva, also has a fierce guardian who is only human on the surface.

* Eva's chosen guise - one of a string of names she adopts - has an air of the name Nicola: both have associations with old, Italian nobility. Though of course this might mean nothing, and is perhaps merely intended to make a protagonist lose themselves in endless speculation about her/their true origins. Men being very eager to learn the names of those women who enchant them is nothing new, and its arguably of a piece with the age-old notion of names being magical; and to know somebody's true name is to have power over them (all these 'traditions' seem morally problematical to me).

* The hint, as exemplified in the quote above, that by knowing them one is on the brink of the revelation of a great mystery: in this, as well as the more obvious way, Eva/Nicola could be said to haunt those who are beguiled and bedazzled. They are left forlorn, enchanted, but tainted; not for nothing is Keats' La Belle Dame sans Merci mentioned in the novel.

There's much more - including my tedious rumination on the irony of men, in their imaginations, casting women as either angelic or demonic - but the gist of my post is this: I'm not claiming that the Nicola story is fiction but only that it, for all its tantalising inscrutability, is actually typical of human contact with such creatures...timeless tales that Straub drew upon not only because such encounters make for a gripping story but because these experiences are familiar to our human kind; because our kind have always experienced them.


In passing, this also seems apt:

'He understands only the women he invents – the others, not at all.'

(Quoted from a letter written by the first wife of the novelist Thomas Hardy)
 
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Steven said:
A novel I admire, and which I'm always boring everyone to tears about at any opportunity, is Peter Straub's Ghost Story. This book has had a massive influence on me and on my (amateurish) writing; for me, it encapsulates supernatural tales from the earliest, ancient 'campfire stories' to the age of cinema...
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Thank goodness! Another fan.

I've been recommending that book ever since I first read it.

Straub has a way with the uncanny that is unique to him - but seems to get little limelight. Both Julia and If You Could See Me Now really had quite an affect on me when I read them as a teenager.

Interestingly, I think he might be one of those writers who is more popular with readers who are not dedicated to the genre, than those who habitually read within it. And I don't think that's a bad thing.

I really need to dig Ghost Story out again.

(I thought the movie version of Ghost Story was awful - but Full Circle / The Haunting of Julia, is much better, and seems to have recently undergone something of a renaissance.)
 
Spookdaddy said:
Thank goodness! Another fan.

I've been recommending that book ever since I first read it.

Straub has a way with the uncanny that is unique to him - but seems to get little limelight. Both Julia and If You Could See Me Now really had quite an affect on me when I read them as a teenager.

Interestingly, I think he might be one of those writers who is more popular with readers who are not dedicated to the genre, than those who habitually read within it. And I don't think that's a bad thing.

I really need to dig Ghost Story out again.

(I thought the movie version of Ghost Story was awful - but Full Circle / The Haunting of Julia, is much better, and seems to have recently undergone something of a renaissance.)
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I don't think I have read Ghost Story in 30 years and can remember nothing about it - perhaps time for me to read it again. I did enjoy Shadowland when I was a teenager.
 
Can't help but recall the picture of the marvellous statue Xanatic* posted:

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Does anyone know of any sex-reversed versions of this story? I'm just thinking, women tend to have to be far more aware when they meet a single man in a deserted setting, so their 'warning' sensors are turned up to maximum, which can sometimes give rise to alarm bells ringing when - perhaps - it isn't necessary. I thought of this yesterday when I was walking the dog in a quiet and deserted wood and a man appeared coming from behind me, greeted me and then, fortunately, strode off into the undergrowth in search of...whatever he was doing. If he had stopped to talk to me, I would have been on very high alert, I was already slightly stressed and do admit to keeping an eye open for him in case he was hiding in the bushes ahead of me.

I wonder what he would have thought and what his interpretation of events would have been if I'd stopped him and started chatting...?
 
SimonBurchell said:
It's amazing that this thread has run to 18 pages with no sign of stopping...
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The reason this case is so interesting is that it's very borderline, very ambiguous! It might just be that Nicola and her motorcyclist friend were ordinary humans. The whole encounter is almost a non-event: a young man chatting up an attractive young woman. All the things that make the case uncanny are minor in themselves (quieter than usual, dog AWOL, sudden biker, solstice query aversion) but it all seems to add up to something more than it should. It doesn't even sound as though Frank had pored brandy on his morning cornflakes or that it was a hot day that might have made him hallucinate.
 
JudSawyer said:
The reason this case is so interesting is that it's very borderline, very ambiguous! It might just be that Nicola and her motorcyclist friend were ordinary humans. The whole encounter is almost a non-event: a young man chatting up an attractive young woman. All the things that make the case uncanny are minor in themselves (quieter than usual, dog AWOL, sudden biker, solstice query aversion) but it all seems to add up to something more than it should. It doesn't even sound as though Frank had pored brandy on his morning cornflakes or that it was a hot day that might have made him hallucinate.
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Don't forget the sudden disappearance!
 
JudSawyer said:
The reason this case is so interesting is that it's very borderline, very ambiguous! It might just be that Nicola and her motorcyclist friend were ordinary humans. The whole encounter is almost a non-event: a young man chatting up an attractive young woman. All the things that make the case uncanny are minor in themselves (quieter than usual, dog AWOL, sudden biker, solstice query aversion) but it all seems to add up to something more than it should. It doesn't even sound as though Frank had pored brandy on his morning cornflakes or that it was a hot day that might have made him hallucinate.
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What makes it very interesting to me is the strong mythological/folkloric undertone, as I've commented somewhere before.
 
SimonBurchell said:
Don't forget the sudden disappearance!
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I don't find that strange: my neighbour once disappeared and I think there was just a banal explanation that I missed.

I was about to cross a busy-ish road half a mile from our house when I saw our neighbour approaching from a side road behind me. I didn't want to miss my chance to cross the road so decided to wait until I had cross then yell a greeting across the road. In the very few seconds between me spotting her, deciding to cross and turning around, she had gone!

She is in her 60s and unathletic so could not have sprinted off. The only *possible* explanation might be that she had popped in to visit someone in one of the houses at the very end of the road but she would have to have been really bloody quick to get in without my seeing her. Even if it had been mistaken identity, no-one *else* matching her description was there either.

So it's a mystery but a mundane one rather than a strange one.

Similarly I regularly lose half an hour here and there but I think I just get distracted, for example by visiting forums about paranormal matters!
 
JudSawyer said:
The reason this case is so interesting is that it's very borderline, very ambiguous! It might just be that Nicola and her motorcyclist friend were ordinary humans. The whole encounter is almost a non-event: a young man chatting up an attractive young woman. All the things that make the case uncanny are minor in themselves (quieter than usual, dog AWOL, sudden biker, solstice query aversion) but it all seems to add up to something more than it should. It doesn't even sound as though Frank had pored brandy on his morning cornflakes or that it was a hot day that might have made him hallucinate.
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That is precisely why the thread is so interesting as I've mentioned before. The point I made is the surprising effect on Damien's mate of what may have been an ordinary sequence of events. Adding on the possible paranormal aspects makes this one of the most interesting threads ever imo.
 
catseye said:
Does anyone know of any sex-reversed versions of this story? I'm just thinking, women tend to have to be far more aware when they meet a single man in a deserted setting, so their 'warning' sensors are turned up to maximum, which can sometimes give rise to alarm bells ringing when - perhaps - it isn't necessary. I thought of this yesterday when I was walking the dog in a quiet and deserted wood and a man appeared coming from behind me, greeted me and then, fortunately, strode off into the undergrowth in search of...whatever he was doing. If he had stopped to talk to me, I would have been on very high alert, I was already slightly stressed and do admit to keeping an eye open for him in case he was hiding in the bushes ahead of me.

I wonder what he would have thought and what his interpretation of events would have been if I'd stopped him and started chatting...?
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I suspect that there have been many encounters you experienced, but women just shudder and move on. I guess some will be reported to the Police.
 
Steven said:
Have to admit, though, the sketch of Nicola earlier in the thread rather scares me.
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I think I mentioned earlier in this thread that the sketch really makes me uncomfortable. Not scared as such, but deeply uncomfortable. I really can't explain why as I've seen lots of sketches and pictures over the years that people might describe as 'unsettling' without being affected. But there is something about this image that really doesn't sit right with me.
 
Steven said:
A novel I admire, and which I'm always boring everyone to tears about at any opportunity, is Peter Straub's Ghost Story. This book has had a massive influence on me and on my (amateurish) writing; for me, it encapsulates supernatural tales from the earliest, ancient 'campfire stories' to the age of cinema.

In Ghost Story, there are several elements similar to the 'Nicola' account:

* A great, yet terrible, beauty those background is only suggested. To those men who find themselves intoxicated by her overwhelming presence, her air of mystery, she somehow seems timeless and even her true and sinister nature has a dark glamour; for all her surface charm, she is strangely frightening. She may be the shapeshifter of ageless renown. She may be essentially unknowable, but her mystery beguiles us. For all this, it is implied, the men should examine themselves for the key to this enigma (admittedly, this is in line with one of my crackpot theories: that the ghosts & such that we see may be emblematic of our deeper and perhaps secret selves).

* The novel's antagonist, Eva, also has a fierce guardian who is only human on the surface.

* Eva's chosen guise - one of a string of names she adopts - has an air of the name Nicola: both have associations with old, Italian nobility. Though of course this might mean nothing, and is perhaps merely intended to make a protagonist lose themselves in endless speculation about her/their true origins. Men being very eager to learn the names of those women who enchant them is nothing new, and its arguably of a piece with the age-old notion of names being magical; and to know somebody's true name is to have power over them (all these 'traditions' seem morally problematical to me).

* The hint, as exemplified in the quote above, that by knowing them one is on the brink of the revelation of a great mystery: in this, as well as the more obvious way, Eva/Nicola could be said to haunt those who are beguiled and bedazzled. They are left forlorn, enchanted, but tainted; not for nothing is Keats' La Belle Dame sans Merci mentioned in the novel.

There's much more - including my tedious rumination on the irony of men, in their imaginations, casting women as either angelic or demonic - but the gist of my post is this: I'm not claiming that the Nicola story is fiction but only that it, for all its tantalising inscrutability, is actually typical of human contact with such creatures...timeless tales that Straub drew upon not only because such encounters make for a gripping story but because these experiences are familiar to our human kind; because our kind have always experienced them.


In passing, this also seems apt:

'He understands only the women he invents – the others, not at all.'

(Quoted from a letter written by the first wife of the novelist Thomas Hardy)
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Yes, I have read that story. Think I still have the book somewhere. Also seen the movie. The themes are universal and that's what locks it into the the Folklore aspect of the incident.
 
JudSawyer said:
I don't find that strange: my neighbour once disappeared and I think there was just a banal explanation that I missed.

I was about to cross a busy-ish road half a mile from our house when I saw our neighbour approaching from a side road behind me. I didn't want to miss my chance to cross the road so decided to wait until I had cross then yell a greeting across the road. In the very few seconds between me spotting her, deciding to cross and turning around, she had gone!

She is in her 60s and unathletic so could not have sprinted off. The only *possible* explanation might be that she had popped in to visit someone in one of the houses at the very end of the road but she would have to have been really bloody quick to get in without my seeing her. Even if it had been mistaken identity, no-one *else* matching her description was there either.

So it's a mystery but a mundane one rather than a strange one.

Similarly I regularly lose half an hour here and there but I think I just get distracted, for example by visiting forums about paranormal matters!
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If the incident happened in a busy street, like the one you mentioned, I would be able to explain things away a little better.
There's lots of distractions and events going on in a busy street that can make someone dissapear in plain site, also more opportunitys available.

I do think the case's individual parts are stranger than the whole. I have always thought the incident has an almost "Dream-like" quality, the dog being left in the river and doesn't follow them, the strange silence of Nicola. I agree with you in that this case sits on that border line, dare I say "Twilight" area ,of how the most everyday event,such as talking to someone, can suddenly turn on a dime.

Having looked at the lane and taking in the area this happend, theres no way 2 people and a big (Harley fatboy or Triumph road bike) are going to compleatly dissapere both silently and from sight, Unless the bike rider is David copperfield. ;) Another thing i need to ask Frank, Did Nicola have a dog lead on her person?
 
Windsock said:
I think I mentioned earlier in this thread that the sketch really makes me uncomfortable. Not scared as such, but deeply uncomfortable. I really can't explain why as I've seen lots of sketches and pictures over the years that people might describe as 'unsettling' without being affected. But there is something about this image that really doesn't sit right with me.
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I think elsewhere I've talked about the fact that the picture was drawn after the event and therefore may be slightly biased towards looking 'otherworldly' and 'scary'. Get someone to draw a picture of an ordinary person and then get someone else to draw the same person after having that person attack them physically (or generally put the wind up them in some format). I suspect the second picture will show some element of 'unsettling'.
 
Looking back through past posts on this thread and I can't see any indication of how long after the event that Frank drew the portrait - I don't really trust it as a true representation of Nicola - but then I'm pretty rubbish with remembering faces.
 
Spookdaddy said:
Thank goodness! Another fan.

I've been recommending that book ever since I first read it.

Straub has a way with the uncanny that is unique to him - but seems to get little limelight. Both Julia and If You Could See Me Now really had quite an affect on me when I read them as a teenager.

Interestingly, I think he might be one of those writers who is more popular with readers who are not dedicated to the genre, than those who habitually read within it. And I don't think that's a bad thing.
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^this^. It has been YEARS since I read this. I enjoy Peter Straub's writing and Ghost Story is one of my all time favourites. The woman actually scared me.

Not sure that I agree with your idea that he is not a popular author with people who regularly read horror. I have always read horror (and dark fantasy if you really want to break things into genres). Ghost Story reads as a fairytale. That is, there is a danger and the story is written as a warning to others. Peter Straub tends to write stories that appear to be commonplace, until you reach the conclusion that things aren't exactly as they seem. His stories have an insidious nature of gradually building dread, then outright fear. I think his stories are similar to MR James. Similar, but not the same.
Steven said:
A novel I admire, and which I'm always boring everyone to tears about at any opportunity, is Peter Straub's Ghost Story.
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Excellent comparison of the novel to the subject of this thread. Quite interesting, and I tend to agree with your points. Ghost Story is a fairytale and this story reads as a fairytale, imo.

To others reading my comments, I am not saying that I disbelieve the story, only that it reminds me of a fairytale as mentioned in prior posts.
 
Damien said:
If the incident happened in a busy street, like the one you mentioned, I would be able to explain things away a little better.
There's lots of distractions and events going on in a busy street that can make someone dissapear in plain site, also more opportunitys available.
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When my neighbour 'disappeared', the traffic on the narrowish road was busy enough to make me impatient about getting a chance to cross it, but there weren't many pedestrians. I guess she is just more nimble on her feet than I assumed!
 
Regarding Ghost Story: I'm probably wrong, as so often, but it nags away at me that Straub's tale might not be a straightforward one of self-redeemed heroes and wretched, if fundamentally shallow, villains. I think there are clues that the men are equally shallow, careless and reckless (but in regard to women); it's perhaps no accident that the women - even Stella - are portrayed as being secondary, either as merely use or as ornament. The main men are mostly cast as innocents when they are actually immature at best; it's not just their dreams which are dangerous but also their fantasies - it could even be that they wished Eva into existence, conjured her...and then, their childish fantasy spoiled by her insistence on priority and on her adulthood, disposed of her and went back to their play. She would not be their girl - as opposed to their woman - and she would not do as they wished, would not know her place (secondary, that is)...

I think Straub's quotes about Narcissus are pointed, in that the heroes and villains mirror one another. And it may be telling that much is made of that old, sexist piece of projection: the supposed vanity of creatures like Eva. Notably, the male characters' various vanities are routinely depicted as being amusing (Ricky's sartorial habits, for example) or forgivable (Lewis's dating exploits) or as signs of character (Sears' towering self-regard)...but, significantly, these vanities are always presented as harmless. They may, in truth, be hints of self-righteousness and solipsism: all of the main men either (supposedly) worship women or have little use for them...and even idealisation of women, it might be argued, is a wilful distancing of oneself from women as real, living, multi-faceted people.

Alternatively, I'm bonkers and can't understand both literary subtlety and clarity. Or men and women.
 
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Steven said:
I think there are clues that the men are equally shallow, careless and reckless (but in regard to women); it's perhaps no accident that the women - even Stella - are portrayed as being secondary, either as merely use or as ornament.
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I don't think this is off topic as Nicola's feelings don't seem to come in to it which seems to be the key to this IMO. This was all discussed from page 2, kicked off by the very astute Enola Gaia if you haven't read all 19 pages. :oops:

Damien said:
I do think the case's individual parts are stranger than the whole. I have always thought the incident has an almost "Dream-like" quality, the dog being left in the river and doesn't follow them, the strange silence of Nicola. I agree with you in that this case sits on that border line, dare I say "Twilight" area ,of how the most everyday event,such as talking to someone, can suddenly turn on a dime.
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I hate to spoil all the fun here but as this seems to be really bothering Frank (and now me apparently..), then I am going full sceptic. I really think he needs to consider that Nicola was a normal, scared teenager, telling him the dog was her nans (and might attack him if he tried anything) to try and put him off and walking off towards her biker friend and safety? It is what I would have done. I would have given a fake name too, just FYI. :)
Damien said:
Having looked at the lane and taking in the area this happend, theres no way 2 people and a big (Harley fatboy or Triumph road bike) are going to compleatly dissapere both silently and from sight, Unless the bike rider is David copperfield. ;) Another thing i need to ask Frank, Did Nicola have a dog lead on her person?
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Unless Frank had a petit mal seizure or similar? They cause a person to blank out and are preceeded by an "aura" of weird feelings, just like Frank had. You can look it up.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/epilepsy/symptoms/
A simple partial seizure can cause:

  • a general strange feeling that's hard to describe
  • a "rising" feeling in your tummy – like the sensation in your stomach when on a fairground ride
  • a feeling that events have happened before (déjà vu)
  • unusual smells or tastes
  • tingling in your arms and legs
  • an intense feeling of fear or joy
  • stiffness or twitching in part of your body, such as an arm or hand
You remain awake and aware while this happens.

These seizures are sometimes known as "warnings" or "auras" because they can be a sign that another type of seizure is about to happen.
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Such as:-
An absence seizure, which used to be called a "petit mal", is where you lose awareness of your surroundings for a short time. They mainly affect children, but can happen at any age.

During an absence seizure, a person may:

  • stare blankly into space
  • look like they're "daydreaming"
  • flutter their eyes
  • make slight jerking movements of their body or limbs
The seizures usually only last up to 15 seconds and you will not be able to remember them. They can happen several times a day.
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I don't believe his life was in danger, especially if he has not had a seizure since. He can chalk it all up to a weird brain fart. Scary at the time but thankfully no harm done. Although I wonder if he can remember any other instances of blanking out at that time, probably much more mundane such as missing short chunks of a TV programme or something?
 
Min Bannister said:
I don't think this is off topic as Nicola's feelings don't seem to come in to it which seems to be the key to this IMO. This was all discussed from page 2, kicked off by the very astute Enola Gaia if you haven't read all 19 pages. :oops:


I hate to spoil all the fun here but as this seems to be really bothering Frank (and now me apparently..), then I am going full sceptic. I really think he needs to consider that Nicola was a normal, scared teenager, telling him the dog was her nans (and might attack him if he tried anything) to try and put him off and walking off towards her biker friend and safety? It is what I would have done. I would have given a fake name too, just FYI. :)

Unless Frank had a petit mal seizure or similar? They cause a person to blank out and are preceeded by an "aura" of weird feelings, just like Frank had. You can look it up.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/epilepsy/symptoms/


Such as:-


I don't believe his life was in danger, especially if he has not had a seizure since. He can chalk it all up to a weird brain fart. Scary at the time but thankfully no harm done. Although I wonder if he can remember any other instances of blanking out at that time, probably much more mundane such as missing short chunks of a TV programme or something?
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I think Frank having some sort of Psychological episode is more believable than Nicola just leaving her dog in the Water and meeting a guy on a lonely path from out of nowhere. I have allway thought that there was a dream like quality to the experince. Frank hasn't mentioned anything to me about having any seizures like this before or after. One thing is for certain, Frank wasn't looking for this experience, and it isn't something that he made up, it is a genuine strange event that happened to him on that day that has left him more than a little bewildered. I have been meaning to ask someone in the field of psychology and brain chemistry if there is anything that could have created the experiences that Frank had witnessed on that day.
 
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