MoD UFO investigator Nick Pope on Doctor Who and sci-fi

[richardthomas]

Below is an interview I did with MoD UFO investigator Nick Pope back in 2008.

Richard: First things first. Thanks for agreeing to do this so soon after my last interview with you for Room 101. In that interview we centred on your UFO work for the MoD, so here it will be interesting to do a sci-fi focused interview. As a successful sci-fi author yourself I'm sure you will be able to answer my questions and no doubt intrigue our readers too.
You've written two excellent sci-fi novels, Operation Thunder Child and Operation Lightning Strike. In our Room 101 interview you said: "As a successful sci-fi author myself I've been greatly influenced by Doctor Who." Which stories in particular do you think have influenced your sci-fi work the most?

Nick Pope: Although my two sci-fi novels are - on the face of it - about alien invasion, I wanted to get away from a one-dimensional good versus evil conflict. I wanted to blur the lines and make people think about the moral issues. While it's difficult to nail down particular Doctor Who stories as an influence, a central theme of morality run through the show as a whole. I guess the idea of the military being in the frontline is common to my novels and to any of the stories featuring UNIT.

Richard: In our other interview you also said that: "I'll always look back on Genesis of the Daleks as the all-time classic story. I'd love to see this remade or revisited in some way." I'm a big Genesis fan myself, why do you think so many fans continually pick this as their all-time favourite Doctor Who story?

Nick Pope: A number of reasons. Tom Baker was one of the greatest Doctors and the three way dynamic between the Doctor, Sarah-Jane and Harry worked very well. The daleks have always been popular villains, so the story was bound to appeal. But Genesis was more than just another dalek story - it was the story of the creation of the daleks and the central question of whether the daleks could be instilled with a sense of morality, or destroyed, made this a 'high stakes' story. Other highlights included the introduction of Davros and the Doctor's moralizing over his right to destroy the daleks. Finally, I think people enjoyed the parallels with the Nazis: a brutal, militaristic society in a total war. Genetic experiments. Genocide. The uniforms and the salutes. All this and more was present, with Davros as Hitler and Nyder as his Himmler.

Richard: Season four of the new series saw the return of the Daleks and their evil genius creator Davros. Why do you think they continue to be so popular with younger audiences?

Nick Pope: With CGI and a bigger budget, we can have more sophisticated-looking daleks and more of them. And now we have the fix to the 'they can't get up the stairs' issue. But again, I think the popularity reflects the fact that they are the ultimate Doctor Who villains: aggesive, ruthless, persistant and without any pity.

Richard: I think the first four Doctors will always be iconic. Whose your favourite Doctor and why?

Nick Pope: People often ask this and ask the same question about James Bond. Popular wisdom is that the answer is usually "the first one you saw". I started watching when it was Jon Pertwee, but eventually I came to prefer Tom Baker, who until recently was my favourite. But Doctor Who is now so polished that Christopher Eccleston took over the top slot ... until David Tennant joined. David, to me, is the best Doctor. I just think his acting is brilliant. He perfectly portrays the sadness, the loneliness and the detachment that are so central to the Doctor's character, but also the strength and sense of purpose. He brilliantly shows the audience the quiet "fury of the Time Lord".

Richard: Personally my favourite Doctor Who adversary has always been the Cybermen. The Moonbase, Tomb of the Cybermen and The Invasion are easily some of the best black and white stories, which is loudly echoed in the new series. With the Cybermen returning again this Christmas what do you think it is about them that still scares children so much? Why do you think the Cybermen have survived in the age of CGI special effects?

Nick Pope: I think there are parallels with the Daleks. People like the continuity of villains that return again and again. It gives the writers a chance to develop themes that couldn't really be included in a one-off story, such as the wider evolution of a race. But the idea that they were once humanoid, but transformed themselves into these cyborgs is scary. It's a case of "they're like us ... but not like us". Something green with tentacles is obviously alien, but maybe the Cybermen are a little 'too close to home'.

Richard: After Genesis of the Daleks, The Daemons is often said to be the best of the classic Doctor Who adventures. The way this and other classic stories like The Pyramids of Mars tied Erich von Däniken's theories into Doctor Who makes for an interesting mix of mythologies. What do you think of this?

Nick Pope: I think it's very clever. It was tapping into the popularity of such ancient mystery books in the Seventies, largely started by von Daniken. The Nazca lines get a mention in Death to the Daleks, as I recall. And we can't have mention of The Daemons without quoting the Brigadier's classic "Jenkins, chap with the wings there, five rounds rapid" line.

Richard: Two of the most memorable monsters not yet to return in the new series are the Silurians and their aquatic cousins the Sea Devils: the original reptilian inhabitants of planet Earth. Curiously, Doctor Who and the Silurians came out in 1970 the same year as Ivan T. Sanderson's Invisible Residents: The Reality of Underwater UFOs was first published. Do you think it might just be possible that another intelligent species like the Silurians or Sea Devils could have evolved right here on Earth? (ala the cryptoterrestrial hypothesis)

Nick Pope: Well, I hope these monsters are brought back at some stage! I reference the cryptoterrestrial hypothesis a fair bit in my first sci-fi novel, Operation Thunder Child. There are plenty of USO (Unidentified Submerged Object) reports and many UFO sightings where an object is seen over water, so who knows? I'm not hugely attracted to the cryptoterrestrial hypothesis, but I certainly can't rule it out. And as the saying goes, we arguably know less about the deep ocean than we do about the Moon or Mars.

Richard: Doctor Who and the Silurians ends tragically with the Brigadier blowing up the Silurian base. As someone who used to work for them, hypothetically how do you think the MoD would deal with a species like the Silurians or Sea Devils in the real world?

Nick Pope: Obviously I can't discuss specific details of Rules of Engagement, but in general terms I think I can say that if attacked, we would respond with proportionate force. However, in any contact with an extraterrestrial (or cryptoterrestrial) civilisation the key strategic objective would be to open lines of communication and facilitate peaceful contact. Secondary objectives would include information exchange, with a particular emphasis on science and technology.

Richard: In the following Jon Pertwee story, The Ambassadors of Death, Great Britain not only has a manned space program but also already sent men to Mars. As someone with an interest in space how far away do you think this was from reality at the time?

Nick Pope: This story was broadcast fairly shortly after the Apollo 11 moon landing, so there was immense public fascination in anything to do with space, coupled with a feeling that we'd all be holidaying on the moon by the end of the century. Those within government, however, would have been well aware that a manned space programme was quite beyond the UK at the time, both in terms of technical capability and, critically, finance. We still spend far too little on space, given the huge benefits to be reaped in terms of resources and knowledge.

Richard: Jon Pertwee's best enemy was easily the Master. What did you think of Derek Jacobi's and John Simm's portrayals of the character in season three of the new series?

Nick Pope: Both are brilliant actors and both were excellent in different but complementary roles that brought out that mixture of charisma and menace that defines the character of the Master. The scene where John Simms dances to the Scissor Sisters song "I Can't Decide" was outstanding.

Richard: I think Robert Holmes (who wrote the first Master story Terror of the Autons, as well as Pyramids of Mars and many other classics) will always be thought of as the best of all the Doctor Who writers but its starting to look like Steven Moffat might well give him a run for his money. I'm very much looking forward to his time as lead writer and executive producer beginning in 2010. What do you think?

Nick Pope: Russell T Davies will be a hard act to follow, but Steven Moffat can do it. The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, The Girl in the Fireplace and Blink were some of the best stories since the relaunch of Doctor Who, as was Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, so this all bodes well for the future. There's a darkness and a poignancy about his stories that I like (e.g. the "she's ghosting" scene from Silence in the Library) and another thing that appeals is that he's a writer who deals really thoughtfully with the philosophy of time travel.

Richard: Stories like Spearhead from Space, Ark in Space and The Lazarus Experiment seem to have been heavily influenced by Nigel Kneale's Quatermass serials. Interestingly, David Tennant also appeared in the BBC's 2005 remake of The Quatermass Experiment just before he became the new Doctor. What do you think of this mix? Why do you think Nigel Kneale's fiction continues to inspire writers even today?

Nick Pope: I agree that some of the Doctor Who stories have been influenced by Quatermass, probably because some of the Doctor Who writers watched Quatermass when they were younger. Quatermass and his British Rocket Group even get namechecked in a couple of Doctor Who stories. There are clear parallels between the two shows and in particular the idea of a clever, moral but quirky character facing down all manner of alien threats, despite the odds being stacked against him. Sci-fi is arguably dominated by big budget Hollywood movies, so Kneale's work (like Doctor Who) appeals to us because there's something very British about it.

Richard: I grew up in the 1990s when Doctor Who was sadly trapped in the void known as UK Gold. However, there was another show on the BBC that sent me running to "hide behind the sofa." That, of course, was The X-files. What did you think of the way the series incorporated the UFO mythology into its own storylines? For instance, Roswell, Area 51, abductions, MJ-12 and even the Face on Mars are all worked into the series.

Nick Pope: Skeptics often say UFO witnesses and abductees may be influenced by sci-fi, but if anything, the reverse is true. The X-Files is the classic example and the writers clearly did their research and borrowed freely from the UFO/abduction literature. I was hired by 20th Century Fox to do some of the PR for the new X-Files movie, I Want to Believe. As well as giving a number of media interviews I was commissioned to write material on real life mysteries and conspiracy theories, which was then used in various newspaper and magazine features that came out in the run up to the movie's release. I met David Duchovny and Chris Carter at the UK premiere and Chris already knew about my government work on UFOs. The X-Files is a brilliant creation and when they 'do' UFOs, they do it really well.

Richard: Do you foresee any new esoteric mysteries becoming a part of the sci-fi canon, much like abductions and Face on Mars have?

Nick Pope: Well, the disappearing bees got a mention in Doctor Who recently and all sci-fi writers will keep an eye out for real life mysteries. I think the big one to watch is 2012 and the associated mysteries and theories that surround the Mayan calendar. The sci-fi movie 2012 will be released next year and I'm sure the whole 2012 issue will crop up in other sci-fi books, movies and TV series.

Richard: Would you like to write more sci-fi yourself? Perhaps your sci-fi books might make interesting audio books. Any plans or thoughts?

Nick Pope: I'd love to write more sci-fi and at some stage, a third novel to follow the previous two. But I'm too busy with TV and promotional work at present to write another book. Operation Thunder Child was previously optioned by Carnival Films and a screenplay was written, but the project stalled. Operation Thunder Child and Operation Lightning Strike are currently being looked at by a major Hollywood studio, with a view to making them into a blockbuster sci-fi movie.

Richard: Thanks again, as always I look forward to your future media appearances, books and other projects.

http://binnallofamerica.com/sfw1.28.9.html

 

[linesmachine]

...I was interested to read the bit about links between Quatermass and Dr who. I'm more of a QM fan than a DW fan but always felt there was something similar between them.

 

[richardthomas]

Below is the first part of the above interview with Nick Pope.

Richard: First things first, thank you very much for giving us the time to answer these questions, I truly appreciate it and I'm sure our readers will find whatever you have to say (or not say) very interesting.

Perhaps the most interesting case you have been associated with is that of the 1980 Rendlesham Forest incident in Suffolk, England. Jacques Vallee has suggested that this may have been some kind of psyop, pointing out that the American soldiers who went out to investigate the UFO that night were told to leave their guns behind. What do you think of this theory?

Nick Pope: As much as I respect Jacques Vallee, the psyop theory is extremely unlikely to explain the Rendlesham Forest incident. I worked at the Ministry of Defence for 21 years. One of my jobs involved working closely with the Defence Intelligence Staff, while my final post was in a security-related job. If this had been a psyop, there is absolutely no way that the authorities would have allowed a paper trail to be generated in the way that it was. The affair would have been allowed to play itself out, but the moment people started putting things in writing, those running the psyop would have had a quiet word and stopped anything from being committed to paper. Any documents had had slipped through the net would have been quietly withdrawn.

Richard: The other major case you are associated with is the 1993 Cosford incident. Do you think this or any other major cases in the UK (e.g. the 1974 Berwyn Mountain Incident) could be explained by black projects in our skies, British or otherwise?

Nick Pope: For obvious reasons, the issue of black projects isn't something that I can discuss in any great detail. Clearly there are aircraft and Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (both experimental and operational) the existence of which are not yet public knowledge. However, there are ways of eliminating this possibility from any official investigation into a UFO sighting. To give one example, we know where we test fly our own experimental craft (in various special ranges and danger areas), so can take this into account.

Richard: In other interviews I have heard you say that, during your time on the MoDs UFO project, you never had any indication that there was some secret UFO group - an MJ UK if you will - operating above you. However, what about in other countries. Did you ever get any hint of any secret UFO groups (of whatever scale) active abroad, not just in the US but anywhere?

Nick Pope: It's certainly true that I never got any indication that there was any clandestine UFO group operating in the UK, having access to material that was somehow being withheld from me and my colleagues in the Defence Intelligence Staff. So far as the situation in other countries is concerned, I must answer "no comment."

Richard: You yourself have compared the MoDs UFO project to the US Air Force's defunct Project Blue Book. It is widely believed in Ufology that Blue Book was, far from a serious attempt to investigate UFOs, simply a PR exercise aimed at debunking UFOs in the eyes of the public. Hypothetically, if a UFO had crashed somewhere in the UK (during your tenure at the MoD UFO desk) do you think you would have been told? Perhaps more interestingly who do you suspect would have been?

Nick Pope: Firstly, I disagree with the view that Project Blue Book was a PR exercise. While it had its faults and was, on occasion, conclusion-led, I think that generally speaking most of those involved did their best to investigate sightings in an open-minded way. While they found no evidence that UFOs were extraterrestrial in origin the fact that they couldn't explain a sizeable percentage of reports shows they weren't debunking the phenomenon. The MoD's investigative efforts mirrored Blue Book in relation to both terms of reference and methodology.

In relation to a UFO crash, I believe that as the SME (Subject Matter Expert) I would have been told. I would then have briefed up the chain of command to Service Chiefs and Defence Ministers. A key priority would have been to bring in MoD scientists, to ensure there was no biological or chemical hazard.

Richard: We've been having something of a new UFO wave in the UK recently. In an interview with The Sun, you went as far as calling for an official inquiry into the sightings over Shropshire. Is this still your position or has it changed in hindsight? Also, what's your take on the recent Police helicopter UFO sighting near Cardiff, Wales?

Nick Pope: My call for a public inquiry was not the result of a single sighting, but a response to the wave of sightings over the UK this summer, coupled with unprecedented media and public interest. Some sightings have clearly been caused by Chinese lanterns, but the MoD appear to be using this as an excuse not to investigate. It would be simple to ensure that witnesses are interviewed, photos and videos analysed and radar tapes checked, yet these basic things are not happening. This is why we need an inquiry. Whatever one believes about UFOs, cases such as the incident involving the police helicipter show that there are air safety issues involved.

Richard: Out of all the recently declassified British UFO files, what is the most interesting to you?

Nick Pope: A few cases spring to mind:

26th April 1984: Members of the public report a UFO in Stanmore. Two police officers attend the scene, witness the craft and sketch it.

13th October 1984: a saucer-shaped UFO is seen from Waterloo Bridge in London by numerous witnesses.

11th September 1985: 2 UFOs tracked on a military radar system travelling 10 nautical miles in 12 seconds.

4th September 1986: a UFO passes an estimated 1.5 nautical miles from the port side of a commercial aircraft.

The National Archives asked me to review the files prior to their release and pick out cases of potential interest to the media and the public. These are some of the cases I selected.

Richard: Other than those we've already discussed are there any other UFO cases you are particularly impressed with and if so, why?

Nick Pope: As you'd expect, given my background, I tend to be more interested in cases involving the military and cases where visual sightings are corroborated by radar evidence. Other cases that spring to mind include the sightings over Belgium in 1989 and 1990, where F-16s were scrambled; the RAF Lakenheath/RAF Bentwaters radar/visual cases from August 1956; the 1995 near-miss between a UFO and an aircraft on approach to Manchester Airport; Captain Zaghetti’s Sighting from 1991 – another near-miss between a UFO and a civil aircraft; a case from November 1990 involving RAF pilots sighting a UFO over the North Sea, with other sightings and unusual radar returns across Europe; all the cases featured on the Coalition for Freedom of Information's website; and finally, some cases that I can't discuss until MoD releases the files, over the course of the next 3 years.

Richard: What do you think the future of the MoD UFO desk will be, in your December interview for BoA:Audio you said it would almost certainly be shut down soon?

Nick Pope: I'm reasonably sure that the MoD will formally disengage from the UFO issue. They may well do this once they finish the process of releasing the archive of UFO files in about three year's time, but they may well do so before then. They will probably justify this by reference to the US experience and Project Condign. That said, one does not have to have a formal UFO project to look at the phenomenon: any sightings from civil and military pilots are still likely to be investigated and any unusual radar returns will be examined. But inevitably, a lot of potentially interesting cases (i.e. those involving the public) will no longer be looked at.

Richard: Abductions: what are your thoughts on them? Do you think something physically real, metaphysical, psychological or a combination of these is happening? Is there any particular case that you find most compelling?

Nick Pope: Just as the UFO phenomenon has no single explanation, I believe there are various different explanations for the alien abduction phenomenon. Some cases will be hoaxes and some may be attributable to some form of hallucination or delusion. To this we can probably add vivid dreams, sleep paralysis, false memory syndrome and various other factors. However, this doesn't explain all the cases and I suspect there's some other factor at work here. Scientific studies of the abductees show no evidence of psychopathology or falsehood and suggest that in recalling their experiences they exhibit physiological reactions (e.g. increased heart rate and perspiration) not seen in control groups of non-abductees. My own case files on this run to about 100 incidents. The most compelling involves a young woman called Brigitte Grant (a pseudonym), who I worked with for a number of years. There's some information about her on the internet, but she's dropped out of ufology now and witness confidentiality precludes my saying anything not already in the public domain.

Richard: I know that you've also shown an interest in ghosts, crop circles and the cattle mutilation phenomenon, but what about other esoteric subjects? Do you have any thoughts on the Yeti, Loch Ness Monster or any other mysteries?

Nick Pope: I'm interested in the unexplained and the paranormal as a whole. Inevitably, constraints on my time preclude my investigating everything, but I've looked into and commentated on remote viewing, the Bermuda Triangle and a whole host of other mysteries. Cryptozoology is fascinating, though not my specialist subject. I keep an open mind on all this.

Richard: I hear that pop star Robbie Williams is a big Nick Pope fan. What do you think of this and has he ever contacted you?

Nick Pope: Robbie and I have exchanged a few emails over the last year or so. I met him at the UFO Congress in Laughlin this year. He's a nice guy and genuinely interested in the UFO phenomenon.

Richard: I always try and tie in Doctor Who to Richard's Room whenever I can. You've written some excellent sci-fi books and seem to be a bit of a fan, so what's your favourite Doctor Who monster and/or story and why?

Nick Pope: As a successful sci-fi author myself I've been greatly influenced by Doctor Who. The revival of the franchise has been brilliant and stories such as Blink, The Girl in the Fireplace and The Family of Blood have been phenomenal, in terms of script, acting, SFX and direction. TV heaven. However, I'll always look back on Genesis of the Daleks as the all-time classic story. I'd love to see this remade or revisited in some way.

Richard: Thanks again, I look forward to any future media appearances, books or articles.

http://binnallofamerica.com/rr9.26.8.html

 

[richardthomas]

Below is the first part of the above interview with Nick Pope.

Richard: First things first, thank you very much for giving us the time to answer these questions, I truly appreciate it and I'm sure our readers will find whatever you have to say (or not say) very interesting.

Perhaps the most interesting case you have been associated with is that of the 1980 Rendlesham Forest incident in Suffolk, England. Jacques Vallee has suggested that this may have been some kind of psyop, pointing out that the American soldiers who went out to investigate the UFO that night were told to leave their guns behind. What do you think of this theory?

Nick Pope: As much as I respect Jacques Vallee, the psyop theory is extremely unlikely to explain the Rendlesham Forest incident. I worked at the Ministry of Defence for 21 years. One of my jobs involved working closely with the Defence Intelligence Staff, while my final post was in a security-related job. If this had been a psyop, there is absolutely no way that the authorities would have allowed a paper trail to be generated in the way that it was. The affair would have been allowed to play itself out, but the moment people started putting things in writing, those running the psyop would have had a quiet word and stopped anything from being committed to paper. Any documents had had slipped through the net would have been quietly withdrawn.

Richard: The other major case you are associated with is the 1993 Cosford incident. Do you think this or any other major cases in the UK (e.g. the 1974 Berwyn Mountain Incident) could be explained by black projects in our skies, British or otherwise?

Nick Pope: For obvious reasons, the issue of black projects isn't something that I can discuss in any great detail. Clearly there are aircraft and Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (both experimental and operational) the existence of which are not yet public knowledge. However, there are ways of eliminating this possibility from any official investigation into a UFO sighting. To give one example, we know where we test fly our own experimental craft (in various special ranges and danger areas), so can take this into account.

Richard: In other interviews I have heard you say that, during your time on the MoDs UFO project, you never had any indication that there was some secret UFO group - an MJ UK if you will - operating above you. However, what about in other countries. Did you ever get any hint of any secret UFO groups (of whatever scale) active abroad, not just in the US but anywhere?

Nick Pope: It's certainly true that I never got any indication that there was any clandestine UFO group operating in the UK, having access to material that was somehow being withheld from me and my colleagues in the Defence Intelligence Staff. So far as the situation in other countries is concerned, I must answer "no comment."

Richard: You yourself have compared the MoDs UFO project to the US Air Force's defunct Project Blue Book. It is widely believed in Ufology that Blue Book was, far from a serious attempt to investigate UFOs, simply a PR exercise aimed at debunking UFOs in the eyes of the public. Hypothetically, if a UFO had crashed somewhere in the UK (during your tenure at the MoD UFO desk) do you think you would have been told? Perhaps more interestingly who do you suspect would have been?

Nick Pope: Firstly, I disagree with the view that Project Blue Book was a PR exercise. While it had its faults and was, on occasion, conclusion-led, I think that generally speaking most of those involved did their best to investigate sightings in an open-minded way. While they found no evidence that UFOs were extraterrestrial in origin the fact that they couldn't explain a sizeable percentage of reports shows they weren't debunking the phenomenon. The MoD's investigative efforts mirrored Blue Book in relation to both terms of reference and methodology.

In relation to a UFO crash, I believe that as the SME (Subject Matter Expert) I would have been told. I would then have briefed up the chain of command to Service Chiefs and Defence Ministers. A key priority would have been to bring in MoD scientists, to ensure there was no biological or chemical hazard.

Richard: We've been having something of a new UFO wave in the UK recently. In an interview with The Sun, you went as far as calling for an official inquiry into the sightings over Shropshire. Is this still your position or has it changed in hindsight? Also, what's your take on the recent Police helicopter UFO sighting near Cardiff, Wales?

Nick Pope: My call for a public inquiry was not the result of a single sighting, but a response to the wave of sightings over the UK this summer, coupled with unprecedented media and public interest. Some sightings have clearly been caused by Chinese lanterns, but the MoD appear to be using this as an excuse not to investigate. It would be simple to ensure that witnesses are interviewed, photos and videos analysed and radar tapes checked, yet these basic things are not happening. This is why we need an inquiry. Whatever one believes about UFOs, cases such as the incident involving the police helicipter show that there are air safety issues involved.

Richard: Out of all the recently declassified British UFO files, what is the most interesting to you?

Nick Pope: A few cases spring to mind:

26th April 1984: Members of the public report a UFO in Stanmore. Two police officers attend the scene, witness the craft and sketch it.

13th October 1984: a saucer-shaped UFO is seen from Waterloo Bridge in London by numerous witnesses.

11th September 1985: 2 UFOs tracked on a military radar system travelling 10 nautical miles in 12 seconds.

4th September 1986: a UFO passes an estimated 1.5 nautical miles from the port side of a commercial aircraft.

The National Archives asked me to review the files prior to their release and pick out cases of potential interest to the media and the public. These are some of the cases I selected.

Richard: Other than those we've already discussed are there any other UFO cases you are particularly impressed with and if so, why?

Nick Pope: As you'd expect, given my background, I tend to be more interested in cases involving the military and cases where visual sightings are corroborated by radar evidence. Other cases that spring to mind include the sightings over Belgium in 1989 and 1990, where F-16s were scrambled; the RAF Lakenheath/RAF Bentwaters radar/visual cases from August 1956; the 1995 near-miss between a UFO and an aircraft on approach to Manchester Airport; Captain Zaghetti’s Sighting from 1991 – another near-miss between a UFO and a civil aircraft; a case from November 1990 involving RAF pilots sighting a UFO over the North Sea, with other sightings and unusual radar returns across Europe; all the cases featured on the Coalition for Freedom of Information's website; and finally, some cases that I can't discuss until MoD releases the files, over the course of the next 3 years.

Richard: What do you think the future of the MoD UFO desk will be, in your December interview for BoA:Audio you said it would almost certainly be shut down soon?

Nick Pope: I'm reasonably sure that the MoD will formally disengage from the UFO issue. They may well do this once they finish the process of releasing the archive of UFO files in about three year's time, but they may well do so before then. They will probably justify this by reference to the US experience and Project Condign. That said, one does not have to have a formal UFO project to look at the phenomenon: any sightings from civil and military pilots are still likely to be investigated and any unusual radar returns will be examined. But inevitably, a lot of potentially interesting cases (i.e. those involving the public) will no longer be looked at.

Richard: Abductions: what are your thoughts on them? Do you think something physically real, metaphysical, psychological or a combination of these is happening? Is there any particular case that you find most compelling?

Nick Pope: Just as the UFO phenomenon has no single explanation, I believe there are various different explanations for the alien abduction phenomenon. Some cases will be hoaxes and some may be attributable to some form of hallucination or delusion. To this we can probably add vivid dreams, sleep paralysis, false memory syndrome and various other factors. However, this doesn't explain all the cases and I suspect there's some other factor at work here. Scientific studies of the abductees show no evidence of psychopathology or falsehood and suggest that in recalling their experiences they exhibit physiological reactions (e.g. increased heart rate and perspiration) not seen in control groups of non-abductees. My own case files on this run to about 100 incidents. The most compelling involves a young woman called Brigitte Grant (a pseudonym), who I worked with for a number of years. There's some information about her on the internet, but she's dropped out of ufology now and witness confidentiality precludes my saying anything not already in the public domain.

Richard: I know that you've also shown an interest in ghosts, crop circles and the cattle mutilation phenomenon, but what about other esoteric subjects? Do you have any thoughts on the Yeti, Loch Ness Monster or any other mysteries?

Nick Pope: I'm interested in the unexplained and the paranormal as a whole. Inevitably, constraints on my time preclude my investigating everything, but I've looked into and commentated on remote viewing, the Bermuda Triangle and a whole host of other mysteries. Cryptozoology is fascinating, though not my specialist subject. I keep an open mind on all this.

Richard: I hear that pop star Robbie Williams is a big Nick Pope fan. What do you think of this and has he ever contacted you?

Nick Pope: Robbie and I have exchanged a few emails over the last year or so. I met him at the UFO Congress in Laughlin this year. He's a nice guy and genuinely interested in the UFO phenomenon.

Richard: I always try and tie in Doctor Who to Richard's Room whenever I can. You've written some excellent sci-fi books and seem to be a bit of a fan, so what's your favourite Doctor Who monster and/or story and why?

Nick Pope: As a successful sci-fi author myself I've been greatly influenced by Doctor Who. The revival of the franchise has been brilliant and stories such as Blink, The Girl in the Fireplace and The Family of Blood have been phenomenal, in terms of script, acting, SFX and direction. TV heaven. However, I'll always look back on Genesis of the Daleks as the all-time classic story. I'd love to see this remade or revisited in some way.

Richard: Thanks again, I look forward to any future media appearances, books or articles.

http://binnallofamerica.com/rr9.26.8.html

 

[Timble2]

Good post there. I'd argue that The Daemons , isn't von Daniken, it's Quatermass and the Pit , Nigel Kneale got to Ancient Astronauts long before Eric von D did.

 

[eburacum]

Arthur Clarke also preceded both Nigel Kneale and von Daniken in his novel Childhood's End. In that story the aliens are eventually revealed as demon-like entities, although the memory of their form came from the future, transmitted by prescience, rather than from the past.

 

[Pietro_Mercurios]

Arthur Clarke also preceded both Nigel Kneale and von Daniken in his novel Childhood's End. In that story the aliens are eventually revealed as demon-like entities, although the memory of their form came from the future, transmitted by prescience, rather than from the past.

I think you're stretching a point there, ebaracum.

My personal opinion of Nigel Kneale's early influences, is that he'd read ,H.P. Lovecraft's tales of the, 'Great Old Ones', quite possibly, in the 'Weird Tales', magazine, when he was younger.

All the essentials are already there. Contagion from outer space. Aliens being here first and humans being interlopers. Humans and aliens interbreeding. Humans being the prey of interstellar entities, etc.

 

[richardthomas]

Below is another sci-fi focused interview I did with Nick Redfern.

Richard Thomas: First thanks for agreeing to do this interview so soon, its not that long since our Room 101 interview so its much appreciated.

Nick Redfern: No probs!

Richard Thomas: When I was about five or six my dad bought me a two video pack of the 1975 Tom Baker stories The Sontaran Experiment and Genesis of the Daleks. After that I soon started watching Sunday morning repeats on UK Gold. Can you remember how you first became a Doctor Who fan?

Nick Redfern: I wouldn't say I'm a big fan of Doctor Who; as I don't think I've actually watched it since Tom Baker finished, aside from one or two episodes of the new series in about 2006. I saw the one with Peter Kay and the guy out of Hustle, and I thought that was a very good one. I did enjoy it as a kid, and particularly with Jon Pertwee. I can't really remember much of it now, just a few fragments of certain episodes from the time. Thirty years ago is a long time! I'm sure I got interested, though, like most kids of my age back then, from watching it at teatime on a saturday night.

Richard Thomas: Growing up in the 1990s I'm from the generation of children that was cheated out of having their own Doctor by the BBC. (Unless you count the 1996 Paul McGann TV Movie.) Who was your favourite Doctor growing up and what do think made him unique compared to the others?

Nick Redfern: I'd definitely say Jon Pertwee. He was flamboyant and adventurous, and a bit eccentric, and had an old vintage car he drove around in; and I liked those aspects of it all. He wasn't a typical James Bond-type; and that was good. There's way too much lazy thinking in TV, where people won't take a chance, and many of the characters are very stereotypical, and I think the character of Doctor Who has always been the exact opposite of this. Jon Pertwee's was a very memorable Doctor Who. I don't remember the people who came before him, and never really watched it after Tom Baker. Of the couple of episodes from the latest series I've seen, I thought it was pretty good.

Richard Thomas: The Jon Pertwee/Tom Baker years are often considered the golden age of Doctor Who, what are some of your favourite stories from this era and why?

Nick Redfern: I remember the Sea Devils one, one with Daemons, and one set at Loch Ness. I suppose I remember them mainly because of my interest in Cryptozoology. Plus, I'm not really much of a fan of sci-fi; and have never been interested in things like Star Wars; Battlestar Galactica; etc. If I ever watch sci-fi, it's mainly conspiracy-type sci-fi set on Earth, like The X-Files, The Invaders, Kolchak etc, which is probably why I liked - and remember - these specific episodes and stories of Doctor Who.

Richard Thomas: For me the scariest thing about the Daleks and the Cybermen is the fact that both species were originally humanoid beings much like ourselves. This is a bit of a weird question but with the transhumanist movement and futurists like Ray Kurzweil talking about a nearing "Technological Singularity" do you think we have anything to fear from Davros-like mad scientists on Earth?

Nick Redfern: I actually remember Davros well; because when I was at school we had an old wrinkled teacher who looked just like him! LOL. And that's what we nicknamed him. As for having things to fear from similar, real-life scenarios like this, I'd say that as technology and medicine progresses, it's vital that it's kept in check. Yes, we definitely need to advance as much as possible in a positive way; but we also have to ensure we don't cross the line into darker areas, such as down the road to "designer children" and things like that where so-called modifications might start to be made at the genetic level. Our scummy leaders might like a whole nation of identical, subservient types born out of a test-tube, but we definitely need to stay away from all that.

Richard Thomas: If the Daleks and Cybermen ever wiped each other out for good who do think would emerge as the new Doctor Who king of monsters?

Nick Redfern: How about the Chupacabras?

Richard Thomas: As a monster hunter yourself, if you were ever asked by the Doctor Who production team to suggest or even invent a new adversary for the series what do you think it would be?

Nick Redfern: As above, I'd say the Chupacabras. Having been on several expeditions to Puerto Rico looking for it, I don't think for one minute that the Chupacabras is really some sort of pet or secret experiment of aliens. I think those theories are all laughable bollocks. But that scenario, of a vicious alien Chupacabras coming to Earth, and maybe finding its way to Britain, would be a very good one for a fictional TV show. If the production team want help, I'm here!

Richard Thomas: From the Yeti and the Loch Ness Monster to Erich Von Daniken's Chariots of the Gods, Doctor Who seems to have borrowed a lot from Cryptozoology and Ufology. As a successful author in both these fields what are your thoughts on this?

Nick Redfern: I think it's actually very cool. There are a lot of people in the fields of Ufology and Cryptozoology who whinge and moan when the subject is portrayed on TV, because they get very self-righteous and pompous about how they think it should be shown on-screen. I've even seen people complain when a fictional TV show changes - for example - some aspects of a famous case, such as Roswell. But these people need to get lives; they need to lighten up, and realise that TV-fiction is simply that: an entertaining story and nothing else. People should be able to watch a show that totally fictionalises a real event - if it's presented as fiction, and everyone realises that's what it is. As far as specifically crypto on TV is concerned, I love Primeval. I always watch that show. In fact, I'd say - for me, at least - it's the best paranormal type fiction show since when The X-Files was at its height. I particularly liked the last season finale with the Mammoth on the M25; that was a good one.

Richard Thomas: As well as the paranormal Doctor Who has also taken a lot of inspiration from cult sci-fi and horror films. I understand your a big zombie film fan, what do you think it is about them you like so much and what is your favourite zombie film?

Nick Redfern: I'm not sure I could say this or that is my definite favourite; it would depend on the mood I was in at the time. But, yeah, I love zombie films. I have a huge collection of them. I think, for me, and like a lot of people, part of the appeal is the whole apocalyptic nature of the stories. It's interesting that since the late 60s, zombies have been tied with end of the world type themes. But before that, you never really saw that. Rather, before then, it was just zombies here or there, and in a relatively normal setting. But, today, you rarely - if ever - see a zombie film that isn't connected to the end of the world, or some huge disaster. The two have become interconnected. But I like that. Plus, I like the fact that in many zombie films, it's the zombies who win. I cannot stand zombie films that have happy endings. I much prefer to see the stars either get eaten, or get infected themselves LOL. I think part of the appeal too is that slow, deliberate walk the zombies have - particularly in the older films. That relentless slow march stays in the mind. Although I do think today's "running zombies" are cool too. As for my favourites, I'd say the old Hammer film, Plague of the Zombies: that's a really good one. Obviously, Night of the Living Dead. I also thought the 2004 remake of Dawn of the Dead was great.

28 Days Later was a very good one (although technically they aren't zombies, but are still alive and just infected with the "Rage Virus"); but I hated the ending of 28 Days Later. It was far too upbeat. They should have all got infected too. I don't wanna watch a zombie film where the hero and his girlfriend ride off into the sunset and everyone's happy. I want to see them get bitten, change, and then go on a zombie attack themselves. Or just get eaten and die in pain as the zombies tear them apart. A good night's entertainment! And I thought that Shaun of the Dead was excellent! It's difficult to do really good zombie-comedy, and Shaun is definitely the best example of how to nail it.

Richard Thomas: George Romero's Night of the Living Dead is one of my favourite films. Why do you think Romero's Dead films are so popular compared to other zombie films including remakes of Romero's original trilogy by other directors?

Nick Redfern: Well, I think he really cornered the market, and defined that whole aspect of the zombie outbreak leading to the collapse of civilisation, and he did it very well and in a unique way. I was a bit disappointed with Land of the Dead. But I liked his latest Diary of the Dead. He made a name as the definitive zombie filmmaker; and that will always be the case too, and that's great. He deserves it and earned it. But, in saying that, there have been some other very good ones. I love Italian horror films, and there's been a lot of good stuff come out of that whole genre too. It's not really zombies, but one of my all-time favourite horror films is Carnival of Souls (the 60s original.) That's a great film. As is Night of the Demon and Dead of Night.

Richard Thomas: The last few years have seen something of a revival in the zombie genre with films like 28 Days Later and its sequel, I Am Legend and Romero's fourth and fifth Dead films. Why do you think we've had this sudden rash of apocalyptic zombie films?

Nick Redfern: Well, I think it's pretty simple: part of it is that filmmakers and studios see a successful film or theme, and they follow a similar path, whatever the subject matter. If someone makes an apocalyptic zombie film and it's a big hit; then others follow suit. Same with werewolf films; or war films, or gangster films, etc. I did not like I Am Legend at all though. It wasn't terrible; it was just okay. But I was hoping for more than okay. Will Smith played the survivor role well. But I think we should have seen much more about the build-up to the disaster, how the virus spread, etc. The ending was wrong; and should have been very bleak; and not one that gives hope to people. Zombie films should never give any hope of any kind. Zombie films should be relentless right up to the last shot.

Richard Thomas: Your also a big fan of The Invaders, a 1960s X-Files-esq series starring Roy Thinnes as man desperately trying to warn the world about a covert alien invasion already underway. Why do you think your such a big fan of The Invaders as opposed to more well known series from the 60s like Star Trek or The Avengers?

Nick Redfern: Well, I'm more into conspiracy type TV things than sci-fi; and even though The Invaders was technically sci-fi, it was more about paranoia, conspiracies, cover-ups and dark secrets here on Earth. Frankly, TV shows with futuristic spaceships, with laser guns, and with people running around in silver suits on far-off worlds bore me shitless.

Richard Thomas: The Invaders seems to have been influenced somewhat by paranoid 50s films like Invasion of the Body Snatchers and Quatermass 2. Are you a fan of these or other paranoid sci-fi at all? And what do you think of the parallels with David Jacobs' theories presented in The Threat?

Nick Redfern: The Quatermass films were pretty good; and particularly Quatermass and the Pit. Yeah, I like to watch paranoia-type sci-fi. They Live was one I would put into that category which I enjoyed a lot. I also liked Lifeforce, from 1985, which blended sci-fi and a zombie outbreak in London. That was a very weird one, but an intriguing story, too. That's an interesting question re Jacobs. I actually see nothing positive about abductions; and see it all in a very negative light - as far as our role in abductions is concerned. Cattle being used is the term that comes to mind for me. All this stuff about how it's for our own good, and will help us, is crap. Whoever or whatever the kidnappers are, they have done nothing at all to help us - ever. If I ever see one of those little black-eyed bastards and I have a gun, I will blow it's head off. That's the way to welcome these creatures that do nothing but use us, exploit us, penetrate our airspace and suspiciously lurk around military bases for whatever reason. To me, they aren't a direct threat in the sense they are going to wipe us out. I think it's worse: we might be like cattle: reared and used.

Richard Thomas: As someone who writes about UFOs and related subjects have you ever felt a little like the character played by Roy Thinnes in The Invaders yourself?

Nick Redfern: LOL. A bit! I do get around a lot doing investigations and travelling about; and on-the-road investigations have a lot of intrigue and adventure attached to them. So, yeah, in that respect. But, unlike the David Vincent character in the show, I've never been shot at by aliens or been on a UFO! Maybe one day though!

Richard Thomas: I understand you had the chance to meet Roy Thinnes once. How did you meet? And did you manage to get his take on UFOs or anything like that?

Nick Redfern: Yeah, I did; and he's a really cool guy. We met at a TV shoot about 3 years ago. He was very down to earth, no ego, and was happy to chat and hang out. Yes, he's very interested in UFOs, and knowledgeable too. There's a few other people from TV sci-fi I've met too, and who were cool to chat with, and who were refreshingly completely lacking in all that Hollywood "don't talk to me" bullshit. One was Dean Haglund, who played Langly - one of the Lone Gunmen - on The X-Files. Like me, he's a big Ramones fan, and we had a good chat about music and stuff. The other was Chase Masterson, from Star Trek, and a lot of sci-fi films, who I hung out with for a couple of days last year.

Richard Thomas: What are your plans for the future? Are you working on any new books or has anything grabbed your attention recently?

Nick Redfern: I'm working on a couple of books: one on a US Government think-tank that investigated alien abductions back in the 80s. Also, a book on mystery animals of Staffordshire, such as sightings of big-cats, phantom black-dogs, etc. And I have a book coming out later this year that I think you will find interesting titled Sci-Fi Secrets, which is a study of how the worlds of official secrecy and sci-fi have crossed paths.

Richard Thomas: Sci-Fi Secrets sounds excellent, hopefully we'll be able to do another interview on that sometime. Thanks again.

Nick Redfern: Cheers Richard; you're welcome.

http://binnallofamerica.com/sfw2.20.9.html

 

[eburacum]

Arthur Clarke also preceded both Nigel Kneale and von Daniken in his novel Childhood's End. In that story the aliens are eventually revealed as demon-like entities, although the memory of their form came from the future, transmitted by prescience, rather than from the past.

I think you're stretching a point there, eburacum.

Aye, you're probably right. It's just that I read Childhood's End at about the same time as The Daemons was first transmitted, and the two are inextricably linked in my mind.

 

[eburacum]

a case from November 1990 involving RAF pilots sighting a UFO over the North Sea, with other sightings and unusual radar returns across Europe

This is the Proton re-entry case, discussed in some depth on this forum previously.
http://www.ufonet.nl/nieuws/tornado/index2.html
Obviously Nick Pope can't see that this case has been quite well explained, but not everyone on this forum agrees with me in that respect anyway.

 

[richardthomas]

Below is my second sci-fi focused interview with Nick Redfern. Some of the topics delved into include Nick Pope and his UFO fiction, 9/11 and the X-Files spin-off that predicted it, Philip K. Dick, and Dennis Wheatley's UFO books to name just a few.

Richard Thomas: Just want to start by saying thanks for taking the time to do this interview.

The first thing I wanted to ask you about is 9/11. I remember, in one of your early appearances on BoA: Audio a few years back, you said you were skeptical about alternatives to the official government conspiracy theory that Osama bin Laden masterminded the attacks on the Twin Towers and Pentagon. In the book, though, you dedicate a whole chapter to the pilot for The Lone Gunmen (a spin-off to the popular X-Files series) which astonishingly seemed to predict almost exactly the events of 9/11 *(i.e. planes being hijacked and flown into the Twin Towers). In light of this information, and considering the time that has passed since the event, what is your current opinion on 9/11 and is "government sponsored terrorism" something you think you'll ever look more into?

Nick Redfern: I kind of liken the whole government angle and conclusions relating to 9/11 to be like their conclusions and official reports on the JFK assassination and Roswell: no conspiracy, and all very much explainable. Personally, however - and just like the Roswell and JFK reports - I think there are very big questions that still require answering about 9/11 that just don't sit well with the government's version of events. I wouldn't say I'll never do something about terrorism, but as there are so many good researchers already delving into this area, I think it would have to be something pretty substantial and ground-breaking - and that wasn't being done by anyone else - to make me get involved in that area. There are people far more knowledgeable than me digging into all this field already.

Richard Thomas: I know you now live in Texas, home of Alex Jones, Jim Marrs and the JFK assassination: what's it like to live in what many consider the heartland of "conspiracy culture" ?

Nick Redfern: Yeah, me and my wife, Dana, live in the city of Arlington, Texas, which is about a 25-minute drive from Dallas. Until the summer of 2008 - when we moved to Arlington from Dallas - we actually only lived about an 8-minute drive from the Grassy Knoll! As for what it's like here, well, you obviously get a lot of tourists visiting the Grassy Knoll, Dealey Plaza etc. But, when you live here - I moved here 9 years ago - and after visiting it a couple of times, you kind of just incorporate it into your everyday life. In other words, if I drive along the stretch of road where JFK was shot, I honestly don't now give it much thought any more - I'm more concentrating on watching the traffic and the crazy drivers! That's not to sound cold-hearted, but when you've seen it once or twice, well...you've seen it. It's so small too - I was amazed. You see things like the Zapruder film and it looks like a large, sprawling area. It's actually not though.

Richard Thomas: Regarding Science Fiction Secrets, I recently wrote an article about Dennis Wheatley for BoA, someone you cover in some depth in the book. I focused more on his black magic books rather than science fiction, but how much of what Wheatley wrote about do you think was really just fiction and how much do you think might have been inspired by fact?

Nick Redfern: Well, we can never really know the answer to that question for sure. But, I would say that it's very intriguing that as with Wheatley and several other people I mention in my book - such as Ralph Noyes and Bernard Newman - had ties to the secret world of officialdom, and then went on to write UFO novels, with cover-ups and conspiracies at their heart. So, I don't rule out the idea that some of these people may have uncovered UFO secrets during the time of their links with the government, and then went on to incorporate those same UFO secrets into a fictional setting.

Richard Thomas: One sci-fi classic surprisingly not discussed in the book is 2001: A Space Odyssey. For readers not familiar with the screenplay, it involves the discovery of a mysterious monolith on the moon, very strangely a similar "monolith" appears to be sitting on one of Mars' moons. The first chapter in your book deals with Mars mysteries, so what's your gut opinion on anomalies such as the Phoebus "monolith" and famous "Face on Mars"? Do you think intelligent life could have once lived on Mars and maybe colonised Earth or perhaps vice versa?
You can hear Buzz Aldrin talk about it and see it in this video, jump to about 6 mins in and watch from there.

Nick Redfern: Yes, I do think that there was more to Mars than meets the eye in the distant past. The late Mac Tonnies wrote an excellent and very balanced book on the whole Face on Mars controversy, called After the Martian Apocalypse. For me, Mac presented some very notable data suggesting that there may have been a very ancient Martian culture. And, if they developed space-travel, it's not a big leap to imagine a visitation to the Earth in the distant past.

Richard Thomas: Ridley Scott's Blade Runner is widely considered by film buffs as the definitive science fiction film, the script of which was largely based on Philip K. Dick's Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? If you look at the film you'll see that it is lettered with what might best be described as "Illuminati symbolism" (as I covered in a previous column for BoA) what are your thoughts on this strange aspect of Blade Runner and why do you think the FBI were so interested in Philip K. Dick?

Nick Redfern: There's no doubt that Dick was a very paranoid man, and who saw a lot of conspiracy theories here, there and everywhere. That doesn't mean the conspiracy theories weren't valid. Rather, it means that he was so deeply into them that he quite often incorporated them into his work. As for the FBI, they watched him very closely because he claimed knowledge of a deep-underground, covert Nazi-type cabal that he believed was trying to influence people to its cause by infiltrating the world of science-fiction. In other words, he thought this group was trying to recruit science fiction authors who could spread the group's beliefs in a way that might allow impressionable people to be turned to their way of thinking.

Richard Thomas: Perhaps the film director with the most conspiracy theories surrounding them and their films, though, has to be Steven Spielberg. How much evidence do you think there is to support the rumours that Close Encounters and E.T. were both based on UFO "insider" knowledge?

Nick Redfern: There's no real, hard evidence. If there was, we wouldn't be asking the question now! But, there are a lot of rumours suggesting that elements of the US Government, military and/or intelligence world may have subtly promoted some key elements in both films.

Richard Thomas: Do you think Spielberg's UFO films or sci-fi series such as Chris Carter's X-Files might be part of some kind of official UFO Disclosure Project? If so, how old might such a project be? What are your thoughts on Bruce Rux's thesis that Orson Welles' infamous 1938 radio adaptation of the H.G. Wells classic The War of the Worlds marked the start of a UFO "education program" ?

Nick Redfern: I think it's possible, and I dig into this angle quite a bit in the book. Bruce Rux's theory is definitely an interesting one that deserves more attention. I'm not sure if this is all part of some planned official disclosure - after all, the Welles production is now 72 years ago, so it would have to be a very long operation! I think more likely is the scenario that at an unofficial level, there are people in Government that may have fed ideas to influential people in the science-fiction world, to see what the public reaction is, But, this seems to have been going on for decades; so that's what makes me think that maybe it's like some sort of periodic litmus-test to try and determine where people are at in their beliefs about alien life; rather than a program gearing up to a date and an end-game scenario.

Richard Thomas: Speaking of Wells in Science Fiction Secrets you explore the idea that the Soviets were inspired by Wells' novel The Island of Doctor Moreau to create an army of human-animal hybrids, what are the chances that such creatures were ever actually born and could these experiments be responsible for Bigfoot sightings in Eurasia?

Nick Redfern: Zero! As I note, this was a crackpot project, because gorillas and humans, or chimpanzees and humans cannot successfully mate, at all. It was a strange, surreal and odd project that actually had no hope of achieving any real, meaningful success.

Richard Thomas: H.G. Wells, of course, is famous for writing the first books about alien invasion, time travel and invisibility. However there's one sci-fi concept Wells isn't credited with and that's Star Trek style teleportation or matter transport. With Donald Rumsfeld admitting back in 2001 (on September 10th strangely enough) that the Pentagon was missing $2.3 trillion anything becomes feasible, do you think that teleportation might have been developed clandestinely and if so to what extent? Also what other science fiction type technologies (for example invisibility and time travel) is there evidence to suggest might have been developed in the black?

Nick Redfern: Yes, I think with black-budgets that all sorts of unusual projects have been worked on. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was a very black-budget alternative space-programme that is quite a bit in advance of what we know publicly about the space-programmes of various nations. I think also a lot of research has been done into invisibility and sophisticated areas of advanced camouflage. Personally, I think the idea that time-travel and teleportation have been successfully developed to where it's 100 per cent understood, functioning and controllable are still stretching things a bit.

Richard Thomas: Another figure that UFO conspiracy theories seem to follow is former member of the British Ministry of Defence Nick Pope. Back in the early 2000's, Pope, who used to work on the now defunct MoD UFO desk, wrote two fictional books (Operation Thunder Child and Operation Lighting Strike) that dealt with themes of alien invasion and UFO crashes. Do you think Nick was using his insider knowledge or is he just clever enough to make it look like he was, or might it be a case of both?

Nick Redfern: I think Nick obviously used a lot of his own personal knowledge of how the MoD works, and how the military works, to write an entertaining novel of alien invasion. I think it's fair to say that many people are split on whether the cover-up angles of the novel, and if the stories about alien bodies being taken to Porton Down etc are based on anything real, or just Nick incorporating widely-known allegations that were already prevalent in the UFO research community. I think Nick is probably very happy that people are still talking about the book, as a direct result of these scenarios and allegations!

Richard Thomas: Your follow-up book to Science Fiction Secrets is Contactees, which also came out this Fall. Tying these two subjects together, is there anything we can discern from the portrayal of contactees in science fiction?

Nick Redfern: Not really. Contactees is basically a study of the whole Space-Brothers movement from the early 50s onwards. I didn't really uncover anything to suggest a linkage between the official worlds secretly trying to infiltrate the sci-fi world in respect of Contactee cases. However, some people do believe that the 1950s film, The Day The Earth Stood Still was government-related in some way. And, admittedly, the main character in the film is very human-looking, as were the Space-Brothers. And, also as with the Space-Brothers, the alien - played by Michael Rennie - does offer warnings to the Human Race. So, maybe that's a science fiction film we should take a closer look at.

Richard Thomas: Where can people get a copy of Science Fiction Secrets and what else have you got planned for us in 2010?

Nick Redfern: People can get hold of Science Fiction Secrets at all good book-selling shops and on-line outlets too. I have 4 books coming out this year: a UFO book called Final Events; and Monsters of Texas (co-written with Ken Gerhard), Wild-Man and Mystery Animals of the British Isles: Staffordshire, which are all on my other big interest: cryptozoology.

Richard Thomas: Thanks again Nick !!

Nick Redfern: Cheers, Richard!

http://binnallofamerica.com/sfw020110.html