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Munchausen Syndrome

You'll be fine - you took the first and most difficult steps, which was admitting to yourself that you had a problem, and actively seeking help - and now you'll get the help you need. You totally deserve it, and we're all right behind you :).

Keep us up to date!
 
just to keep you updated.... 9:30 monday i should be on "the couch" , im getting very anxious about it, but should be ok. no episodes since my last post.
 
I've just caught up with this thread and you're going to be ok, like Stu said the first step is the hardest and now you're doing something constructive. I wish you the best of luck for Monday.
 
You'll be fine Nik - and good on you...

:D

kath
 
im cured !!!!!!!!!! ........not

ok for those of you who are interested here's how it went, didnt sleep at all last night and looked liked death warmed up this morning when i met my designated "shrink". it was all very professional and obviously a lot of thought was put into how to make the client (yep im a client not a patient) comfortable and relaxed,..... but it didnt work, i was scared and it showed.

my first session was scheduled for half an hour, i was left to do the talking with just a few "carry ons" and "tell me more about that's" from mr hart.

i didnt mention "munchies" at all, i explained that i felt at times that i dont have total control of my emotions and actions and that i sometimes do things that are stupid and that i regret afterwards.

he asked if i hurt myself on purpose and i noticed him looking at my wrists and arms, i said i do sometimes get injured during these episodes but i dont actually do it to myself.

but then trying to explain who does do it to me got a little too much for me to try to explain. in fact it all got a bit too much for me then and i just couldnt talk for crying.

probably looked quite strange to him a 6' 2' 15 stone bloke crying like a baby, but to be honest i didnt care, the pressure release was immense.

we didnt really talk in depth today and we have an awful lot to do in the future but the first step today of talking face too face with someone has given me a new confidence.

and i feel i need to thank the people on here for being a stepping stone, from telling nobody, to talking to you all on here, to making the first step to a new understanding of my condition.

i know i have a long way to go and that there is no real cure but hey ............shit happens


talk to you all soon , thanks again.

(next appointment monday week)
 
Nik - what you've done took character (which you evidently have bags of).

I wish you the very, very best :)
 
Like the others said, that took courage and you did it......brilliant news :likee:
 
Sounds like you've made an excellent start :) (I imagine the shrink sees people of all shapes and sizes crying every day.)
I thought you were a Brit, you must be in a different time zone, and there was me thinking of you at the wrong time :rolleyes:
 
just to clarify... yes im a brit.. beakboo got a bit confused about the time stamp on my earlier post.
 
all the best people have at least occasional nocturnal tendencies, regardless of geographical placement :D

Kath
 
nikoteen: I found an interesting article on Munchausens which shows that you have done the right thing in seeking help:

What Would You Do for Attention? Munchausen Syndrome Tells it All

By Barbara A. Prempeh
Published: Friday, February 6, 2004


Munchausen Syndrome is a disorder in which a person falsifies or actually induces illness upon himself for the sole purpose of gaining attention. The individual knows that he is not ill, but intentionally inflicts harm upon himself so that he can become sick or hurt and seek medical attention. The person feels as if inducing illness will bring him the attention he needs and wants, attention that cannot be received in any other manner. Most Munchausen patients are intelligent in the medical field. They are well known to go to extreme lengths to make themselves ill. Some may bleed themselves into anemia, take laxatives to induce diarrhea, or even mimic other diseases.

Marc Feldman, vice chairman of the department of psychiatry at the University of Alabama at Birmingham, has had contact with people who suffer from the disorder. "Of all patients in the hospitals, only 1 percent of those on whom psychiatrists are asked to consult have factitious disorders, and 10 percent of those have Munchausen Syndrome." Though Munchausen is rare, the disorder is finally coming to the attention of the general public. In recent months, newspapers, magazines, news programs, and even a recent episode of Law & Order: Special Victims Unit discussed cases of Munchausen Disorder. This helps hospitals, health professionals, and the public to become aware of this "quiet disorder."

Most Munchausen patients have had an unhappy and unloving childhood. Their childhood memories involve being abused and/or neglected. As adults, they seek many ways to receive that attention and concern that their childhood deprived them of. By becoming ill or pretending to be ill, a Munchausen patient not only receives attention from those around them, but also from the workers in the hospital.

In order for a Munchausen patient to be treated, he must realize that he cannot do it alone. The patients or the loved ones around them must first contact a therapist for counseling. "Munchausen Syndrome can be effectively treated through dialectic cognitive behavioral psychotherapy," psychiatry department chairman Dr. William Lawson said. Once the patient is in counseling the therapist can figure out what triggered the disorder and why the person has such an intense need for sympathy.

The therapist can also help the patient find alternative ways of receiving attention without being self-destructive. Though there may not be medication for Munchausen patients, there is assistance.

http://www.thehilltoponline.com/new...Munchausen.Syndrome.Tells.It.All-600203.shtml
 
It appears MBP/MSbP is currently in the dock:

February 24, 2004

Any justice for Meadow's 5,000 other children?

by Bozena Michalowska

Angela Cannings’ case has highlighted another injustice



THE overturning of Angela Cannings’s conviction has thrown light into a dark corner of the British legal system.

Mrs Cannings was convicted of killing her three children on the basis of Professor Roy Meadow’s now discredited theory of Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy (MSbP). The theory espouses that some mothers harm their children to draw attention to themselves. The Court of Appeal’s decision has opened the door for the review of 258 cases of child deaths in which the parents were convicted of killing their babies.



But little has been said about the position of the parents of the 5,000 children that have been taken into care or adopted over the past 15 years because of allegations that their parents suffered from MSbP. In the case of those parents whose children were forcibly adopted and contact severed, a life sentence has unjustly been imposed on them.

Harriet Harman, QC, the Solicitor-General, has publicly recognised that an injustice has been done. Margaret Hodge, the Minister for Children, has said that she is looking into whether the 5,000 cases should be reviewed but has made it clear that it is unlikely that adoption orders will be reversed. She said that those families who thought that they had been wronged would be able to go back to the family courts.

The family courts, however, have been too willing to accept the evidence of experts espousing MSbP and in doing so have failed both parents and their children.

In 1987, Dame Elizabeth Butler-Sloss’s report after the Cleveland child abuse scandals gave warning of excessive reliance on experts’ opinion by local authorities and social services departments without sufficient corroborative evidence. The report said it was important that social workers should not act solely on the basis of medical diagnoses. Yet, local authorities continue to follow the dogmatic diagnoses of experts such as Professor Meadow without looking for further corroborative evidence.

If the 5,000 cases are not reviewed there will be a strong case for the decision to be judicially reviewed or for a public inquiry. In addition to making all attempts to reunite a family, the courts must also recognise the effect that forced separation has on the development of a child and the grief and anxiety it causes to parents.

As the law stands, a parent cannot bring the medical expert or local authority to account in negligence. In D v East Berkshire Community Health Trust (2003), now being taken to appeal at the House of Lords, the court concluded that, for public policy reasons, no common law duty of care should be owed to the parents in respect of childcare decisions.

The European Court of Human Rights, however, does recognise the rights of parents in such circumstances. In a case that Leigh Day & Co took to the court (P, C & S v UK), it found that there had been a breach by the authorities of the parents’ rights under Article 8 of the Human Rights Convention: the right to respect for private and family life, home and correspondence. Damages of €12,000 have been awarded to each parent.

Where it can be shown that an NHS trust or local authority has ridden roughshod over the rights of the parents, as many parents argue, they can find some redress in the Human Rights Act 1998 and the court in Strasbourg.

Requires regsitration:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,200-1011378,00.html

Older report:

February 01, 2004

The Sunday Times, News Review

The child abuse myths unravel

by Margarette Driscoll



After Munchausen’s syndrome by proxy, another medical theory looks set to crumble. Cases of shaken baby syndrome (SBS) examined in a review of infant deaths ordered by the attorney-general. Like the hundreds of parents accused of causing or faking illness in their children as a form of child abuse, those involved in SBS cases argue they have been damned by a medical diagnosis that does not hold water.

Sally Clark is the Manchester solicitor whose wrongful conviction for the murder of her two babies began the unravelling of Munchausen’s, the abuse theory formulated by Professor Sir Roy Meadow. She was originally accused of having shaken one of her babies to death. Several other mothers are in prison, convicted of murder or manslaughter on the basis of supposedly “classic” signs: bleeding in the baby’s brain or eyes and fractures to the rib or leg bones. More have suffered the intrusion of social service investigations or have had their children taken away. “I have had lots of hopeful calls from families,” said Rioch Edwards-Brown, who founded the Five Percenters, a campaign group, after she was wrongly accused — then cleared — of shaking her son Riordan. “We now know that injuries producing these symptoms can be caused by trauma at birth or falls. Which is not to say babies are never shaken, but there is no such thing as a ‘syndrome’.”


This week the first anti- Munchausen’s conference will take place in Australia. One of the speakers will be Charles Pragnell who was among the first to raise the alarm about the diagnosis in Britain. Now living in Australia, Pragnell has witnessed the damage that can be wrought when zealotry overtakes common sense. He was working for Cleveland social services when scores of children were taken into care on the say-so of Marietta Higgs, a paediatrician working on a now discredited theory about sexual abuse.

“One of the things we were supposed to learn from Cleveland was that social workers should not act on the basis of a medical diagnosis alone,” Pragnell said. “If you look at Munchausen’s cases there is often no corroborative evidence. ”

The child protection service has a history of accepting theory as fact: satanic abuse, anal dilation, repressed memory syndrome and now Munchausen’s and SBS. “If a paediatrician suspects child abuse there is no need to give it a label,” said Pragnell. “It’s for the police and social services to investigate. By pinning the blame on someone the doctor is acting as judge and jury.”

Yet one has to wonder whether the furore over Munchausen’s risks the pendulum swinging too far the other way. Margaret Hodge, the children’s minister, said up to 5,000 cases that had been through the family courts might need to be looked at again and added fuel to the fire by saying parents whose children had been adopted would not get them back. But a relatively small number of cases are likely to hinge on medical evidence alone.

Paediatricians are becoming reluctant to get involved in child protection, fearing complaints or worse. Several have had their car tyres slashed and their homes daubed with slogans.

Despite the criticism Professor Alan Craft, president of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, said he retained “complete confidence” in the diagnosis of Munchausen’s and believes the row can have only harmful consequences for children: “There is no doubt that some parents do abuse children. We are getting to a stage where (cases of) children being harmed will not be picked up.”


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8123-987100,00.html

[edit: Oops missed one - this is article has an awful lot of links to other material so is possibly better

Did a False Condition Lead to False Abuse Charges?

Tuesday, February 03, 2004
By Wendy McElroy

Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy (MSBP) is the psychiatric diagnosis by which a parent -- almost always a mother -- is believed to intentionally harm or kill a child in order to garner attention.



Diagnosing a mother as having MSBP is a tool often used by the state to remove children from the care of the parent, terminate parental rights or in the case of a child's death, charge the parent with murder. Now, due to a raging scandal in Britain, that diagnosis is being discredited.

According to British newspapers, over the last decade, thousands of British women who sought medical treatment for their children were in fact risking being diagnosed with MSBP -- a diagnosis that could lead to the termination of parental rights but also to imprisonment. Perhaps as many as tens of thousands of children have been taken by the state from their parents on the basis of "expert" testimony that the parent had MSBP.

But with MSBP’s originator -- pediatrician Sir Roy Meadow -- under government investigation, British authorities are being forced to re-examine cases dating back to 1996. The Guardian comments: "[T]he fallout from the Meadow affair is set to go global. Thousands of families around the world who have had their children taken into care are to demand their cases be re-examined."

In recent years, a slew of articles on MSBP have appeared in American medical journals. An August, 2003, FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin included an article entitled "Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy: the importance of behavioral artifacts." Some American doctors, such as Dr. Marc Feldman, advertise online their availability to testify as expert witnesses in MSBP trials.

According to the Chicago Sun-Times, Feldman estimates there are more than 1,200 new cases of Munchausen's by Proxy annually in the United States. Organizations like Mothers Against MSBP Accusations (MAMA) have sprung up in "response to the fast growing number of false allegations" of MSBP. MAMA claims "families across America, Britain, Australia, Canada and New Zealand are being destroyed by doctors and other professionals who make false and even malicious allegations against desperate mothers of chronically/critically ill children."

The London Times points out that, this week, "the first anti-Munchausen’s conference will take place in Australia."

How will the furor impact North America? The best indication may be the unfolding events across the Atlantic.

The scandal in Britain was sparked by a High Court review that revealed three mothers had been wrongly accused based on his testimony. In one case, where a family had lost two children to unexplained infant deaths, Meadow assessed the odds of this happening at one-in-73 million; that figure sent the mother to jail. In that case, Meadow’s math was rejected by the Royal Statistical Society, which issued a press release advising the government of a misconduct of justice.

The three cases are not isolated. Attorney General Lord Goldsmith has announced an investigation into 258 other verdicts. With the High Court’s reversal of "Meadow’s cases," the news magazine The Economist aptly stated in its Jan. 24 issue, "an entire medical and legal edifice collapsed." It is not merely Meadow’s credibility but also the research upon which MSBP rests -- research inexplicably shredded by Meadow -- which is under attack.

The anxiety of anti-MSBP campaigners, who have been vocal since 1996, now revolves around one question: what happens next?

Parents cry out "return our children!" But Margaret Hodge, the British minister for children, says it may be wrong to do so. Admitting that tens of thousands of children could be involved, Hodge maintains: "If an adoption order was made … 10 years ago, what is in the real interest of the child? … f the child was adopted at birth the sensible thing to do is to let it stay."

At least three factors strongly contributed to this sustained debacle in Britain.

First, medical advances and educational campaigns have caused a marked decrease in "cot deaths" that is, unexplained deaths of babies in Britain. Over the last decade, The Economist explained that the number of such deaths "halved … and has since fallen to around 300." But the fact that fewer babies die mysteriously casts greater suspicion upon those who do. Someone must be to blame.

Second, in both Britain and North America, there has been a great willingness some would say a great eagerness to place legal blame upon parents for any problem concerning children. Every bruise seems to raise the specter of child abuse. The Economist reports, "As early as 1995, the Canadian government was encouraging investigators in cot death cases to ‘think dirty’ a slogan later picked up in other countries where infant deaths had fallen." Parents were considered guilty until proven innocent.

As one Web site claims, "It's been estimated that as many as one in five cot deaths is really … Munchausen Syndrome By Proxy." (The "murdering" mother is said to bask in widespread sympathy even as she poses a threat to her other children.)

Third, there has been a lack of accountability.

The Guardian pointed to high-level negligence: Prime Minister Tony Blair and key officials ignored warnings from "a leading child psychologist and former government adviser" regarding several cases in which parents had been wrongly separated from children because of MSBP accusations. The British child welfare system seems to be systemically flawed.

The parallels between Britain and North America are too strong for the scandal not to ripple over. Soon, courts over here may be reversing verdicts; officials may be weighing whether to return children to parents who are strangers. The facts of MSBP -- is it a valid psychiatric condition and, if so, what is the prevalence? -- may be lost in the emotional explosion.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,110227,00.html ]

See also:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3514345.stm

Profile of Sir Roy Meadow:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3307427.stm

Now as far as I was concerned cot deaths weren't really related to MBP (it was always cast more as mothers killing babies not just making them ill) and the problem came in when the 'expert' was shown to be wrong about the possibilities of this kind of thing having some kind of genetic component - he basically got his science wrong (a number of cases appearing in one fmaily should have been the start of an investigation into genetic causes not the start of court cases) and while it is a genuine cause for concern about relying on 'expert' testimony I'm not sure MBP can be lumped in with SRA, etc. esp. (as can been seen by the reports in this thread) that it does happen.

Emps
 
That's my worry as well, Emps. That many actual child killers will be given a 'Get Out of Gaol Free' card. On the face of it, you can see the logic behind the argument that once is a tragedy, twice is cause for concern and three times investigate murder. If, some years down the line perhaps, or perhaps even next week, we're faced with the situation where several children in a family have all died, all diagnosed as cot death or whatever, only to find I dunno a death bed confession or a video tape a la Sixth Sense that a parent killed them all; can you imagine the hullaballoo? Media would have another frenzy about incompetant Social Services, incompetant NHS etc etc.

So accuse someone of child abuse and get lambasted. Don't accuse them, and get lambasted. And on the flip side, get accused of child abuse, and no matter how many times your name is cleared, try getting away from it.
 
Helen: Yep my heart goes out to social workers and other people in the field - it is often a "damned if you do damned if you don't" situation and these reports really worry me that there may be some kind of backlash against MPB - the mentions of SRA are really worrying. Granted his analysis of the cot death situation was flawed and we seem to have come out the other side into a kind of limbo where people may be getting away with murder but the research that should have been done a while ago into the genetics of the underlying problem should become clearer which might eventually not only find a cure (or at least a cause) but might be able to winkle out the murderers (although then again that would be weak science: Convicting people because they don't have the genetic markers when things may not be so simplistic).

Interestingly there is a new book out in May "Playing Sick: Untangling the Web of Munchausen Syndrome, Munchausen by Proxy, Malingering,and Factitious Disorder" by Marc D. Feldman:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0415949343/

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0415949343/

Book Description
When a person fakes illness or injury to satisfy emotional needs, doctors and family members are lured into a costly, frustrating, and potentially deadly web of deceit.
Taken from bizarre cases of real patients, Playing Sick? is the first book to chronicle the devastating impact of phony illnesses--factitious disorders and Munchausen syndrome--on patients and caregivers alike.

Psychiatrist Marc Feldman describes patients' strange motivations, from malingerers who invent chronic back pain to avoid work to mothers who demand major abdominal surgery for their healthy children because they derive perverse pleasure from medical attention. Self-induced bleeding, fake fevers, and even a bogus asthma attack so convincing that doctors rush the patient to ICU are the stock in trade of patients with these disorders. Practitioners are deeply disturbed by these patients, angry about the time and resources they consume but nervous about confronting them with the truth.

Based on years of research and clinical practice, Playing Sick? provides the clues that can help practitioners and family members recognize these disorders, avoid invasive procedures, and sort out the motives that drive people to hurt themselves and deceive others. With insight and years of hands-on experience, Feldman shows how to get these emotionally ill patients the psychiatric help they need.

The author has written a lot of on the topic:

http://www.munchausen.com/

Emps
 
MBP Backlash

I was looking at something else and spotted this:

"Hurting for Love: Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome" by Herbert A. Schreier and Judith A. Libow
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0898621216/

Not really anything new (as its from 1993) but the reviews clearly demonstrates the MBP backlash - I suppose given the way society is still structured that the majority of people diagnosed with MBP are woment because they still have greater access to their children but I can't see that this can be seen as an anti-woman thing.

I can't comment on the author's qualifications but I have seen those kinds of ad hominem arguements used before to blacken people's names.

Emps
 
blimey emps you have been doing your home work,
ive had a good read through all the sites and some that ive found as well, they all seem to say the say thing "attention seeking" , now i dont agree 100% with that, although i can only talk about my own case.

ive said before that there are a number of reasons for my attacks but unless i am in denial i dont feel attention seeking is a major factor. i see it as an escape from reality even though if i were to be honest reality isnt that bad.

i would also like to point out to any body joining this thread at the tail end that i do not harm others especially my own children to gain the same effect.

cheers emps
 
i puts me in mind of an ex girlfriend.. she would in any pressured situation pass out. In any argument or lively discusion..spark out .. but i saw her cope when she had to with very stressful situations, when it was vital she didnt pass out... the brain is a tricky bugger.
 
thats what i said.. no i didnt..... yes i did ..didnt i?

seriously.. how many times did your ex have these episodes? what did you think at the time? did she get hurt? did it look fake? and did she go to hospital?
 
nikoteen said:
seriously.. how many times did your ex have these episodes? what did you think at the time? did she get hurt? did it look fake? and did she go to hospital?

quite often if she was feeling emotional!.. I had real problems with it cos she just flaked out like a rag doll and i was very embaresed by it usualy, not knowing what to do. No she never got hurt... i also induced it by acident once while muckign about i picked her up and twirled round and that put her out too. I dont think she was fakeing, she was open about it, decribeing it like a grey out and hearign what was going on all the time she was out but being unable to move etc... i think it was a low blood pressure thing?... (Like the fainting goat)(http://www.webworksltd.com/webpub/goats/faintinggoat.html)
 
"grey out" what a perfect way to describe it.
and coincidently i also suffer from low blood pressure.
 
ohhh... wel shes married with kids and somewhere in essex... yes grey out like when u get up too quick.
 
sorry to hear it niko...i didnt mean to bring stuff back for you sorry Niko... stick with the shrink
 
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