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Mystery prisoner baffles court

Quake42

Quake42

Warrior Princess
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Messages
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A strange and I thought quite sad story:

'Mystery' prisoner baffles court

Magistrates were told he spoke briefly in an unknown language

A mystery man arrested two weeks ago for trespass and burglary has baffled police and immigration officials.

Magistrates were told the authorities have no idea of his name, age, nationality, or even his language.

The court at Llanelli, Carmarthenshire, was told he had broken into the same house three times, washed himself and cooked food, and stole a sewing kit.

The man - referred to as the prisoner or defendant - was remanded in custody as no plea could be taken.

Laura Carthew, prosecuting, said police had tried every means possible to identify or communicate with him.

The man, who appeared to be in his 30s with dark receding hair and olive skin, is alleged to have broken into one house in Tycroes, near Ammanford.

"A map of the world has been offered to the defendant with no response," she said.

She also said they presented him with flags from all the countries in the world, but this met with a similar response.

His fingerprints have been checked against the national database and the immigration services are also involved.

He has briefly spoken once in a language thought to be Amharic, but when a translator was called they said they did not understand him and had no clue to the dialect he was speaking.

Representing him, Stephen Lloyd said: "We don't have any information at all and we are unable to communicate in any way with the defendant before you."

Magistrates had accepted jurisdiction of the case but it will have to be transferred to the crown court as the man could not give his consent for a summary trial.

"He has to consent for a summary trial to take place," said Mr Lloyd.

"He can't communicate therefore the matter will have to proceed to the crown court. I don't think there is any other option."

Magistrates remanded the man in custody until 2 November.

They said he may as well appear via video link as he did not appear to know what was happening.

Both the defence and prosecution said efforts would continue in a bid to identify him.

After Thursday's hearing, the man's solicitor Mike Reed said in his 30 years' experience he had never come across a similar situation.

He said that in a previous hearing, the court heard how writing in a book apparently discarded by the man had been identified as belonging to a "small tribe at the bottom of the Atlas mountains" in Morocco.

"The gentleman himself really communicates extremely little," Mr Reed told BBC News.

"The police found a notebook that he had discarded and it had certain writing on. They took it to an expert who said it was similar to a language used by this Berber tribe."

Mr Reed said the police had not been able to find a translator who spoke the language.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/5409486.stm
 
B**dy Hell that IS a strange one and no mistake.

Sounds more like an "apported" person than a thief, His actions were more of someone seeking shelter and basic necessities, than burgulary.

Suppose it will be one of these stories that simply fades out and not be reported on again :(

Mr P
 
mrpoultice said:
B**dy Hell that IS a strange one and no mistake.

Sounds more like an "apported" person than a thief, His actions were more of someone seeking shelter and basic necessities, than burgulary.

...
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Definitely the best candidate for an 'apport' that I've seen in a long time.

Probably just got dumped out of the back of a lorry carrying lost & bewildered illegal immigrants, though.

"Here you are, mate. London's just up the road, that'a'way..." :(
 
The man - referred to as the prisoner or defendant - was remanded in custody as no plea could be taken.
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Magistrates remanded the man in custody until 2 November.

They said he may as well appear via video link as he did not appear to know what was happening.
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Not sure whether to call it sad or sick. One of those people who our society seems to have no place for save to dump them in prison :(

Presumably if we're going to hear more, it'll surface on 2nd November, when the case goes back to court...
 
Wow, intreguing. I would love for this to be an apport.
 
Isn't he more likely to be an illegal immigrant with mental problems?

Or perhaps he is an illegal immigrant anxious not to be repatriated - if they don't know where he is from, they can't send him back, can they?
 
Ereshkigal_X said:
Isn't he more likely to be an illegal immigrant with mental problems?

Or perhaps he is an illegal immigrant anxious not to be repatriated - if they don't know where he is from, they can't send him back, can they?
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You're probably right - illegal immigrants do this all the time. They remove all evidence of their identity deliberately, and pretend not to understand what people are saying.
In the end, we end up giving them asylum by default. A less humanitarian country would treat them as spies.
 
Well i found the Apport thing interesting.i wasn't familiar with the term and googled it. I was really interested in the opposite affect asport. as this seems to happen to me quite often.
 
In the end, we end up giving them asylum by default. A less humanitarian country would treat them as spies.
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Then I'm glad I don't live in a less humanitarian country.
 
It's possible he doesn't wish to communicate. Or he might not be speaking a real language at all. Makes you wonder...
 
Yes this does sound like he is just an illegal immigrant. It isn´t unusual in anyway like it was with the Piano Man.
 
Except that he broke into the same house 3 times? Unless he wanted to get caught, which i'm not sure is likely if he is an illegal immigrant, that doesn't entirely strike me as the work of a sound mind...
 
Not a smart mind anyway. I remember reading about a guy who broke into people´s houses and cooked for them. Does anyone know if this guy cooked and left the meals for the inhabitants of the house as well, or if he just ate them himself. If he did I would say it seems rather garden variety, getting a bath and some food seems rather a good idea if you´re homeless.
 
There's been a bit of an update in today's "South Wales Evening Post":

MYSTERY OF SILENT MAN IS SOLVED
RON CANT
[email protected]

10:00 - 23 October 2006
After two days an interpreter has managed to discover the name of the mystery man who baffled Llanelli court officials.He is Hassan Ibrahimi and is from one of the many Berber tribes who occupy the slopes of the Atlas Mountain region of North Africa.

The mystery man was arrested suspected of burglary but has not uttered a word for three weeks other than indecipherable mumbles.

Someone who read of the case in the Post and speaks Berber offered his services to the police.

Mr Ibrahimi's solicitor Mike Reed said after two days of meetings at Swansea Prison where he has been remanded, Mr Ibrahimi offered his name and the story of how he came to be in Tycroes.

"The matter is sub judice because of the pending court case. But at least now we can move forward because Llanelli magistrates have accepted jurisdiction.

He said: "There are many dialects of Berber so it is not an easy passage.

"But I am hopeful now we will be able to fast-track this issue through the courts for the sake of Mr Ibrahimi."

In September, when "no-name" first appeared in court, magistrates' clerk Mike Llewellyn described the situation as unusual.

He said: "We have a man in the dock who has not spoken. We do not know where he comes from or what language he speaks."

Prosecutor Vaughan Pritchard-Jones proceeded with evidence, detailing how the man was arrested in connection with a house burglary in Tycroes, Ammanford.

He said the burglar had been confronted by the occupier.

Mr Pritchard-Jones said: "The burglar ran off. The 65-year-old householder was so scared he stayed with his brother living nearby after boarding up the broken window.

"The following day the board was found to have been removed.

"Someone had cooked a meal in the house and items of groceries, a black bag and a sewing kit had been stolen.

"Police were called and placed a movement sensor in the house to help detect any intrusion.

"The following day the alarm was activated and police swooped on the property."

The dark olive-skinned man was later arrested by investigating police officers and, since then, has uttered just a smattering of words which no-one, not even a translator, could understand.

He was shown flags and a map of the world, but all to no avail.

The only clue to his origin was a book, apparently discarded by the man, which contained scribblings identified as belonging to the Berber languages.

There were no other clues to where he came from, or how he ended up in the Amman Valley.

He is scheduled to return to court on Thursday, November 2.
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Source:here
 
Story of mystery burglar unravels

Ibrahimi told police he was "cold and desperate"
A "desperate" man whose identity baffled police for weeks left his remote Moroccan village to find work illegally, a court heard.
Hassan Ibrahimi paid £1,000 to a people trafficker to take him to France. But he was dropped in a Carmarthenshire village unable to speak English.

He admitted burglary after breaking into a local house. He said he was looking for food and shelter.

Llanelli magistrates adjourned sentence and he was remanded in custody.

His solicitor Mike Reed told the court that it was "quite a unique case".

He said: "About two years ago there was an earthquake in the village where he lives. His home was destroyed and his parents were both killed, and his brother.

He said he was very sorry but he was desperate and did not know what else to do

Catherine Collins, prosecuting

"He managed to get work in a cafe, where he also slept, earning the equivalent of £35 a week and he saved up that money.

"Having lost everything, he decided to try and leave Morocco and come to France because the Berber language is similar to French."

Mr Reed said he paid two million in the Berber currency - about £1,000 - to two men.

But after a three-day journey by car and ferry, Ibrahimi was dropped off in Tycroes near Ammanford.


Ibrahimi did not know where he was when he was dropped in Tycroes

Without any money, he initially made a den in a hedge, but when he became cold and hungry he broke into a nearby house.

When arrested in September, police had no idea of his name or nationality, as they did not know what language he spoke.

Only after a translator saw news reports about the case was it established that he lived in a remote village in the Moroccan mountains and spoke the Berber dialect.

Prosecuting, Catherine Collins said he broke into the same house three times, taking groceries, clothing, a sewing kit and a toothbrush.

On one occasion the owner came home and found him but he escaped through a window.

"When the home-owner returned the next day he noticed someone had been eating a meal and the bed had been slept in," Ms Collins said.

Police installed an alarm, which was triggered when he broke in again. When finally interviewed by police via a translator, he said he was "cold, desperate and had no choice".

Ms Collins said: "At the end of the interview he said he was very sorry but he was desperate and did not know what else to do."

Ibrahimi believed he was 26 but did not know his date of birth.

He was remanded in custody until 17 November. Deportation papers were also served.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wale ... 110016.stm
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Does anyone else find this story incredibly tragic?

I hate to think how frightening that experience must have been.
 
'Mystery' burglar may be deported

Ibrahimi must serve a 12-month sentence before deportation
A man who ended up in Carmarthenshire despite paying a people trafficker to take him from Morocco to France has been recommended for deportation.
First, Hassan Ibrahimi will serve a 12 month sentence after breaking into a house three times to steal food.

Llanelli magistrates heard he had been desperate for food and shelter, but said the offence was so serious only a custodial sentence would do.

Ibrahimi's identity, language and nationality initially baffled police.

Earthquake

It was only after a translator saw news reports about the case was it established he came from Morocco and that he spoke the Berber dialect.

The court heard Ibrahimi had left his remote Moroccan village to find work after an earthquake destroyed his home and killed his parents and brother.

He paid £1,000 to a people trafficker to take him to France, but after a three-day journey by car and ferry, he was dropped off in Tycroes, near Ammanford in Carmarthenshire.

Unable to speak English and without money, Ibrahimi initially made a den in a hedge, but when he became cold and hungry he broke into a nearby house, taking groceries, clothing, a sewing kit and a toothbrush.

He was arrested and later admitted burglary.


Ibrahimi did not know where he was when he was dropped in Tycroes

Before sentencing, his solicitor Mike Reed had asked the court to conditionally discharge Ibrahimi.

"This is a most exceptional case and I would ask you what you might have done in a similar situation," he told magistrates.

He said his client had been interviewed yesterday by the immigration services and wanted to claim asylum.

But the magistrates ruled Ibrahimi came from a different continent, had no connection with the UK, could not speak the language, would have nowhere to stay and would be likely to reoffend when released.

They said the time he has spent in custody since his arrest on 24 September would be taken into account.

Mr Reed said they planned to appeal against the sentence.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wale ... 158162.stm
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I'm surprised they're giving the poor sod a custodial sentence, you would have thought deportation was enough!
 
I agree, Carcassandra. Deportation is quite enough.

But the magistrates ruled Ibrahimi came from a different continent, had no connection with the UK, could not speak the language, would have nowhere to stay and would be likely to reoffend when released.
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There's no mention of any violence, actual or even threatened, in this case. He stole a petty amount, apparently to help him survive.

There have been news reports recently that prisons are bursting at the seams, prison ships mooted. Keeping people in jail costs taxpayers a lot of money. What is the point of jailing this man? How would it benefit society?
 
I'm surprised they're giving the poor sod a custodial sentence, you would have thought deportation was enough!
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esp. to say that he didn't intend to come to this country in the first place... and is unlikely to try to return... you'd think what he'd been through, even if he did break the law in desperation, would be enough... :(
 
I've heard of cases where concerned members of the public can make private application offering to take responsibility for homeless and displaced persons.

Maybe you could do that ... it's possible the authorities would grant you a form of custody re; the nameless man, on the condition you provide him a home and adequate lodging and convince the authorities that you'd ensure the man learned English and undertook some sort of training which would eventually lead to employment?
 
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