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New Shuttle UFO Video

What is the context, Tasty? Where, when, etc?

The video shows the shuttle orbiting the Earth, upside down, tail first. Then a bright white speck appears in the distance and rapidly shoots past the shuttle (or it could be that the shuttle overtook something that was dawdling about).

But there's no shape, so no size or distance indication, and the sound-track, though not clear, doesn't appear to be relevent.

A blue thing appears right at the end, which I take to be some sort of video artefact.
 
I dont have much info, thats one of the things I dislike about Art Bell. He said it was
taken recently, but has no source or background. I'm sorry, I should stop posting
info taken from his site, cause what it usually lacks is info. thanks for looking
at it for me. This computer has been acting up on me.
 
The object could be a piece of space debris in geosynchronous orbit (with the shuttle being typically geostationary).

If it is in geosynchronous orbit you can assume due to the fact that it moves relatively slowly in comparison to the shuttle, it's more than likely small and quite close by. Also, if you look more closely, it appears to go from dark blue to light blue to dark blue again, indicating it's at least reflective but it's more than likely white as your eye can't tell the difference betwen white and light blue given the background is entirely blue.

So, it's more than likely that it's a bolt/spanner/whatever that's been flying round up there for ages, but there isn't really much you can determine from the video :)
 
A Geosynchronous orbit would be at about 33,000 Kilometers up though, and from the video and the apparent size of the earth in the background, it looked more like a low earth orbit, probably in the region of 100 - 300 Kilometers (possibly wildly off :) )
 
Yes, there is a 'perfect' geosynchronous belt at about 34,000km, but you can achieve 'non-perfect' geosynchronous orbit (pfft you lot are nit pickers :p) at heights above and below, which is why you have the problem of having to cram in every satellite into the relatively small 'perfect belt'.

That fact is why I judged the object to have been in the belt for a few years, and it's orbit is now decaying - getting closer to atmospheric burn up each day.
 
schnor said:
Yes, there is a 'perfect' geosynchronous belt at about 34,000km, but you can achieve 'non-perfect' geosynchronous orbit (pfft you lot are nit pickers :p) at heights above and below, which is why you have the problem of having to cram in every satellite into the relatively small 'perfect belt'.

That fact is why I judged the object to have been in the belt for a few years, and it's orbit is now decaying - getting closer to atmospheric burn up each day.

Not convinced that you're on about a geo-synchronous orbit.

A geo-synchronous orbit is one in which the orbital period is equal to one siderial day. (i.e. a smidgeon short of the normal solar day of 24 hours.) If it is a circular orbit, then you end off with a satellite ground track looking like a figure of eight. (The greater the inclination of the orbital plane, the larger the figure of eight.)

A geo-stationary orbit, is a special case of a geo-synchronous orbit, in that the orbit is now equatorial (i.e. has an inclination of zero,) and in the direction of rotation of the earth. This means that the satellite appears to hover over one spot on the ground.

Typically a satellite in geo-stationary orbit has to expend fuel in order to maintain its position, as perturbations on it due to the moon, sun, etc. cause it to get messed up and start doing a figure of eight, as well as drifting around in latitude. (The corrections to its natural behaviour are known as "north south station keeping", and "east west station keeping.")

For a circular geo-synch, or geo-stat, orbit, the altitude is the same, and is approx. 36000 km. The shuttle, on the other hand, (except when it has Bruce Willis on board;)) only gets up to LEO (Low Earth Orbit) which for the shuttle is an altitude typically of ~500 km (depending on the mission), and has an orbital period of ~90 mins (ballpark) so it is a long way from being anything like geo-synchronous or geo-stationary.

As regards the lifetime of the beasts in GEO, they're going to be around up there (barring collision with UFOs, etc. ;)) for an extremely long time, so the object in the video is unlikely to be something that is decaying out of GEO. (I suspect that you may confusing geo-syncronous with sun-synchronous, where the orbit is designed such that the plane of the orbit rotates exactly once a year. This has the useful property that the satellite always crosses the equator at the local solar time.)

Coming back to the object in the video, it clearly lies between the camera (on the shuttle) and the earth, so it is at a lower altitude. The shuttle appears to be travelling with it's rear end pointing in the direction of motion. (The shuttle always launches in the direction of the earths rotation, and is travelling faster than the earth rotates.)

If the object were travelling in a circular orbit more or less parallel to the shuttle, and in the same direction, then you would expect it to overtake the shuttle. As the opposite is happening, then we have to assume either:

a) The object is travelling in a retrograde (i.e opposite direction to the rotation of the earth) direction, and hence the "closing speed with the shuttle is ~15 km/s, or

b) it is a non-orbital object (e.g. meteor, or other) or,

c) The movie loop is playing in reverse.

Note that option a) is unlikely as people don't normally launch into those kinds of orbits. (You usually need a very good reason, as they require a lot more energy to get things up there.)

Option b) isn't out of the question, though you might wonder why the sighting of a meteor from space never made it to at least the pages of New Scientist.

Option c) is an interesting one. As has been pointed out, there is very little information to go along with this movie. We don't know were, when, which mission, etc. It isn't inconceivable that someone has reversed a movie to make it look more interesting. (Note that if that is the case, then it is possible that the object is some junk/ice/etc. that has detached from the front end of the shuttle.)

Just some jumbled ramblings...:)
 
Clearly the shuttle is too low for GEO, and anyway, you can see it moving over the Earth!

If the object was in an elliptical orbit inside the shuttle's (presumed) circular orbit, and happened to be near apogee at the time of filming, then the shuttle would be travelling faster, ie, overtaking, which would satisfy what we see.

At perigee, however, the object would be feeling the effects of the thin outer layers of the earth's atmosphere, so this orbit must be decaying. So it probably is a piece of space junk coming to the end of its days.
 
[Bump!]

Just for the fun of it, I've done some calculations of the velocity of an object in an elliptical orbit for different values of perigee. I've assumed the shuttle is at an altitude of 800 km (500 M) above the Earth and that the object reaches this altitude at apogee. The first column is the height at perigee, the second is its speed in kph at apogee. (The first line has perigee = apogee, so refers to the circular orbit of the shuttle, speed 26,684 kph.)

800 - 26,684
600 - 26,450
400 - 26,030
200 - 25,580

The difference between the top line and any other line gives the 'overtaking speed' of the shuttle. So if the perigee of the object is just 200 km altitude, the Shuttle overtakes at
26,684 - 25,580 = 1,104 kph

If the object actually passes some distance below the shuttle (ie, apogee < 800km) then its orbital speeds will be still lower, giving higher overtaking speeds.

All of which proves I have too much time on my hands!
 
rynner said:
[
The difference between the top line and any other line gives the 'overtaking speed' of the shuttle. So if the perigee of the object is just 200 km altitude, the Shuttle overtakes at
26,684 - 25,580 = 1,104 kph

If the object actually passes some distance below the shuttle (ie, apogee < 800km) then its orbital speeds will be still lower, giving higher overtaking speeds.

Quite true. :) I'm afraid that I was using a "circular" argument;). Didn't consider that there might be something "eccentric" about the object.;) (I should really get out more.)

It's a shame that there appears to be no info on when the video footage was taken as it might have been possible to identify it from catalogues. (It may well have had a NORAD 2 line element set associated with it.) If it approached within a "small" distance of the shuttle then it may even have already been identified for us. (Whenever the shuttle is on-orbit, NORAD propagate forward all of the objects that they track, and check if they fall within a finite size box around the shuttle at any point. If they do, then NASA receives a warning, and appropriate action is taken.) As there is no info as to when this happened, however, all we get is a moving blob.:(

I guess that Art Bell doesn't really have any interest in people solving these mysteries.
 
I just sent Art an email asking him nicely for some information, I'll post it if he responds.

But I'll have better odds of shagging a supermodel tonight, than hearing from him.
:D :D
 
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