None Of The Above?

[Stormkhan]

We may not trust The Powers That BE but, as a responsible adult voter and politically aware person, what gets done about it?
I mean, we don't trust the two main political parties (Labour and Conservative) based on past experience, the minor parties - including Liberals - seem to have no chance of taking power. So regardless of the political party in Government, the Government is untrustworthy (to many of us) and yet remain in power!
The really silly thing is not to vote at all, since this harms no politician. To 'protest vote' for a minor party might be a little naive but indictates a willingness to be politically aware yet not vote for the 'Main' parties.

So ... whoever gets into power is unreliable, dishonest and - ultimately - practically guaranteed to deny or ignore any election promises. So, what is to be done? What alternatives are there?

 

[lupinwick]

Buggered if I know storm. Apathy rules the roost as far as I can tell. I work in a place where the average education is degree level, the level of political awareness seems to split into two camps.

The first camp (by far the largest) are the completely apathetic, dislike politicians, think they're all self-serving wankers but can't be arsed to (or don't they they can) do anything about it.

The second camp is the proto-fascist. All chavs (i.e. unemployed) should be castrated, crooks should be castrated, immigrants should be forced out etc. etc. etc. Pretty much you average Daily Mail reader.

The common denominator is that no-one is willing to do anything.

 

[Anonymous]

What alternatives are there?

1) Leave.
2) Vote for one of the smaller parties if it makes you feel better.
3) Put up with it, this is the way things are and they will only get worse.

Damn it, I'm going to vote in the next general election.

The second camp is the proto-fascist. All chavs (i.e. unemployed) should be castrated, crooks should be castrated, immigrants should be forced out etc. etc. etc. Pretty much you average Daily Mail reader.

I don't read the Daily Mail but I appear to have some of the same opinions as Daily Mail readers. WTF? Is this an infectious disease?

BTW, I don't think all unemployed are chavs - but I do think of chavs as unemployed. Does that fit?

 

[Dr_Baltar]

What alternatives are there?

Well, for the time being at least, we still live in a democracy, so anyone dissatisfied with the current choice is free to stand for election. Unless of course, that automatically makes you one of Them.

 

[Stormkhan]

I've heard this wonderful suggestion about standing for election before - simply peachy! It's free to try but you need a bucketload of cash or a willingness to align yourself with another, larger political party - this usually results in your having to follow the party line or get booted out.

Since I'm utterly broke, I haven't got a few thou' to spend on the offchance that someone might actually vote me in as a representative.

 

[Quake42]

I've heard this wonderful suggestion about standing for election before - simply peachy! It's free to try but you need a bucketload of cash or a willingness to align yourself with another, larger political party - this usually results in your having to follow the party line or get booted out.

Since I'm utterly broke, I haven't got a few thou' to spend on the offchance that someone might actually vote me in as a representative.

If I was advising the Tory party, I would advise them to ditch the arguments on the economy, housing and immigration and to run a purely libertarian campaign. Promise to ditch CCTV and speed cameras, end the smoking ban and remove innocent people from th DNA database. No detention without trial. An end to control orders. Legalise soft drugs. Stop the tiresome preaching over obesity, binge drinking and healthy eating. Let adults make adult choices.

It would be a radical manifesto and would no doubt shock the Mail and the Torygraph, but I think it is their best chance of re-election. Having an openly libertarian party opposing them might also force New Labour to think again about their approach to some issues.

 

[Dr_Baltar]

I've heard this wonderful suggestion about standing for election before - simply peachy! It's free to try but you need a bucketload of cash or a willingness to align yourself with another, larger political party - this usually results in your having to follow the party line or get booted out.

Since I'm utterly broke, I haven't got a few thou' to spend on the offchance that someone might actually vote me in as a representative.

Well, if you haven't got the confidence that your manifesto would be more appealing than the current choice then (and I mean this much more politely than it sounds, sorry) I'm afraid you'll have to put up or shut up. There's no point complaining about the current lot if you're not prepared to get involved and try and change things. You can't just rely on someone else to come along and do the work for you. The Labour Party started small but their message was one the country was ready for and their popularity quickly grew. I have the greatest admiration for Keir Hardie because he wasn't an armchair whinger, he got off his arse and did something about it. Which is more than most of us, including myself, will ever do.

 

[Pietro_Mercurios]

...
I have the greatest admiration for Keir Hardie because he wasn't an armchair whinger, he got off his arse and did something about it. Which is more than most of us, including myself, will ever do.

Would Keir Hardie have been welcome in NuLabor? I doubt it.

 

[Anonymous]

If I was advising the Tory party, I would advise them to ditch the arguments on the economy, housing and immigration and to run a purely libertarian campaign. Promise to ditch CCTV and speed cameras, end the smoking ban and remove innocent people from th DNA database. No detention without trial. An end to control orders. Legalise soft drugs. Stop the tiresome preaching over obesity, binge drinking and healthy eating. Let adults make adult choices.

It would be a radical manifesto and would no doubt shock the Mail and the Torygraph, but I think it is their best chance of re-election. Having an openly libertarian party opposing them might also force New Labour to think again about their approach to some issues.

Here here! I'd vote for that.

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

...
I have the greatest admiration for Keir Hardie because he wasn't an armchair whinger, he got off his arse and did something about it. Which is more than most of us, including myself, will ever do.

Would Keir Hardie have been welcome in NuLabor? I doubt it.

True but the likes of John McDonnell, Diane Abbot and Michael Meacher are hardly welcome but they're still there. From my experience those at the grassroots are a lot more welcoming of 'old' Labour types than of the new ones.

 

[Stormkhan]

Well, if you haven't got the confidence that your manifesto would be more appealing than the current choice then (and I mean this much more politely than it sounds, sorry) I'm afraid you'll have to put up or shut up. There's no point complaining about the current lot if you're not prepared to get involved and try and change things. You can't just rely on someone else to come along and do the work for you. The Labour Party started small but their message was one the country was ready for and their popularity quickly grew. I have the greatest admiration for Keir Hardie because he wasn't an armchair whinger, he got off his arse and did something about it. Which is more than most of us, including myself, will ever do.

I take your response in the polite manner as it was intended. If I had a 'manifesto' for every day-to-day and international situation pro tem, I'd spend less time on this message board and more knee-deep in alcohol than even my gin-soaked doctor could accept as 'tolerable intake'. Or I'd be just leaving university, intent on a career in politics. Same thing, really.

I get involved on a local level, especially when it comes to voting - something which some people feel to be optional.

There are many politicians, living and dead, who clawed their way up the greasy ladder and I admire them all. I don't, please note, begrudge them their intent, ability or effort. Before the advent of Tony "The Grin" Blair, I'd have automatically voted Labour. But to make the Labour Party electable, he had to erase socialism from the party, jump into bed (financially and legally) with major conglomerates and present a very media-savvy face to the public. The latter I could accept. The other two sacrifices he made to power I can't forgive or forget.

So ... according to you I either spend a large amount of cash (being certain of my own views is different from being certain of winning an election) or shut the feck up and vote from one of the self-servers that we've got currently running our public services.

As I said before, what choice is there? I am not an anarchist or anti-politics bloke but unless there is some form of alternative we have the choice of ... none. We do have more choice than in many countries but most modern - and effective - politicians are cut from the same mould and have the same self-serving, deceitful reliability.

To quote The Good, The Bad and The Ugly: One bastard comes out, one bastard goes in.

 

[rynner2]

There seem to be a lot of new posts here that the FT e-mailing machine has neglected to inform me about....

However, they seem to be more about general politics than the Police State - perhaps some passing Mod could trim them off and park them elsewhere?

 

[lupinwick]

As I said before, what choice is there? I am not an anarchist or anti-politics bloke but unless there is some form of alternative we have the choice of ... none. We do have more choice than in many countries but most modern - and effective - politicians are cut from the same mould and have the same self-serving, deceitful reliability.

Apologies to Rynner for further derailing the thread. How about adding a "None of the above" option to each ballot paper. Then if "None of the above" wins the election (for that seat) is declared void. Likewise throw in the non attenders, what you may then find is results in the order of:

None of the Above
Couldn't be arsed to turn up
Labour
Conserative
Lib-Dem

TBH, I suspect that the average politician (oxbridge educated) knows fuck-all about his electorate and has fuck-all in common with the bulk of members of his constituency. The guardian had an interesting report recently. Part One

 

[Pietro_Mercurios]

In view of Rynner's suggestion, I've split these Posts off from the, 'Britain - Police State?' Thread.

Me, I think that without a decent system of Proportional Representation, any attempt to reform the British Two Party State is doomed to failure.

By and large, both Parties are filled with the same pie-faced, gravy sucking, types. They went to the same schools, attended the same universities, share the same clubs and mistresses.

 

[James_H]

From the link Lupinwick posted:

The Cabinet

Cambridge

Andy Burnham Culture, Media and Sport Secretary (Fitzwilliam)

Shaun Woodward Northern Ireland Secretary (Jesus)

Oxford

Ed Balls Children, Schools and Families Secretary (Keble)

Yvette Cooper Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Balliol)

Geoff Hoon Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury and chief whip (Jesus)

John Hutton Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Secretary (Magdalen)

Ruth Kelly Transport Secretary (Queen's)

David Miliband Foreign Secretary (Corpus Christi)

Ed Miliband Cabinet Office minister and Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Corpus Christi)

Paul Murphy Wales Secretary (Oriel)

James Purnell Work and Pensions Secretary (Balliol)

Jacqui Smith Home Secretary (Hertford)

 

[lupinwick]

Just to verify.....

Overall, almost one third (32%) of current MPs attended independent schools, which educate just 7% of the population. Seventy-two percent went to university, including 43% who attended one of 13 leading universities1 and over a quarter (27%) who went to Oxbridge.

· Broken down by party, Conservative MPs were most likely to have attended private schools (59% having done so) while Labour MPs were the least likely (18%).

· Conservative MPs were also more likely to have been educated at a leading
university: almost two-thirds (63%) attended one of the ‘Sutton 13’, including 46% at Oxford or Cambridge. This compares with one-third (33%) of Labour MPs from the Sutton 13, half of whom graduated from Oxbridge.

· Those MPs holding offices within the three main parties2 are more likely to have been to independent schools (42%) than MPs on the backbenches (29%), and are also more likely to have attended Oxbridge (34% compared to 24%).

· In particular, Labour MPs who serve as members of the Government are more likely to have been to private school (25%) than Labour backbenchers (16%), and are more likely to have been to Oxbridge (23% compared to 15%). Sixty-two percent of officeholders within the Conservative Opposition were from independent schools, and 46% were Oxbridge graduates.

Backgrounds

Make of it what you will. Are we governed by the best, or governed by those who can afford the best?

 

[Anonymous]

We'll see in generations to come, the old tie and handshake generations have not entirely died off yet; in government, parliament or the judiciary.