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Not As Environmentally Friendly As Promised

kesavaross said:
Lithium explodes on contact with water and/or air.
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It did say they had a bult water carrier *shrug*. I don’t know if they can add something to stop it reacting or if they need the water to make a special foam. I don’t know any fire fighters to ask.
 
MorningAngel said:
It did say they had a bult water carrier *shrug*. I don’t know if they can add something to stop it reacting or if they need the water to make a special foam. I don’t know any fire fighters to ask.
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It's a bit of a mystery. I can't find any real information on the net about how an EV lithium fire is put out as opposed to waiting for it to burn itself out.

I found this video on youtube.

 
kesavaross said:
It's a bit of a mystery. I can't find any real information on the net about how an EV lithium fire is put out as opposed to waiting for it to burn itself out.

I found this video on youtube.

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I was just about to Google this.

So they do use a lot of water. 12 hours was good then apparently.

That news reader sounded very British for Korea. I was surprised it was in English too.
 
MorningAngel said:
I was just about to Google this.

So they do use a lot of water. 12 hours was good then apparently.

That news reader sounded very British for Korea. I was surprised it was in English too.
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According to the video, the lithium batteries can reignite. I think they said that one ignited in a scrap yard a week later.

It is strange that the narrator or presenter spoke in English. Perhaps that's the main language for TV.
 
kesavaross said:
Lithium explodes on contact with water and/or air.
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Yes, but that is what they end up using to cool the batteries down (the ones that haven't yet exploded).
CO2 is probably best, but they'd quickly run out of that.
It's a major emergency if it takes half a day to put out, and the most available thing is water.
 
So does sodium.
Which is contained in salt, but salt doesn't explode when added to water.
I think it's a matter of amounts and surrounding stabilisers - after all, can you imagine the 'fun' teens would have dropping lithium batteries into water? It'd be all over TikTok.
Any firefighters 'in the house' that can comment on how to treat an EV fire?
 
kesavaross said:
Lithium explodes on contact with water and/or air.
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The commonest form of lithium in a car battery is as lithium cobalt oxide, compounds have different properties to the elements they are made of. Typically a lithium battery is only 3% lithium apparently. Remember, for example that lithium is used for medicinal purposes as well.
 
Reaction of Lithium with air or water not quite 'explosive'.

"Lithium burns with a strongly red-tinged flame if heated in air. It reacts with oxygen in the air to give white lithium oxide. With pure oxygen, the flame would simply be more intense. For the record, it also reacts with the nitrogen in the air to give lithium nitride."
Incredibly long URL link to report

"Lithium reacts intensely with water, forming lithium hydroxide and highly flammable hydrogen. The colourless solution is highly alkalic. The exothermal reactions lasts longer than the reaction of sodium and water, which is directly below lithium in the periodic chart."
another extremely long URL link to another report
 
MorningAngel said:
I’ve got a small car. But Smart cars are particularly tiny, that’s why a four door one seems so odd.
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The Smart ForFour pretty-much is a normal car... it's bigger than the two-seater, and has a more conventional layout. - But the original ForTwo was entirely tolerable on motorway journeys of up to about 50-60 miles or more, and properly-handled could be a really nippy around town; the nearest thing to a motorcycle on four wheels.
 
There was a Smart ForFour near me I thought it looked quite good, made by Mitsubishi
I believe, office girl had one of those Smart sports cars that looked good but I would
end up on my hands and knees to get out.
 
RaM said:
There was a Smart ForFour near me I thought it looked quite good, made by Mitsubishi
I believe, office girl had one of those Smart sports cars that looked good but I would
end up on my hands and knees to get out.
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From Wiki:

Smart cars are a joint venture between Mercedes-Benz & Zhejiang Geely Holding Group Co., Ltd.(ZGH), commonly known as Geely, a Chinese multinational automotive company headquartered in Hangzhou, Zhejiang. The company is privately held by Chinese billionaire entrepreneur Li Shufu.

The name Smart derives from the cooperation of the Swiss company Swatch with Mercedes-Benz: "Swatch Mercedes ART" In its branding, the company lowercases its logotype and the logo incorporating a "c" and an arrow for the car's "cute", "compact", and "forward-thinking" styling, respectively.
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hunck said:
From Wiki:
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They were originally Mercedes ...with Geely only just coming onboard in 2019 as they descend into electric looneyland.

We used to run a '450' 'ForTwo' as a newsgathering unit in Edinburgh and surrounding areas it was amazing! Everything was 'Mercedes' right down to the logo on the engine; the trouble being that the tiny 700cc engine was over-stressed, and good for only about 70,000 miles before needing a rebuild. - Ours was 'pre-emptively'' done and finally gave up the ghost at about 140K.

The W453 'For Four' was basically a Mitsubishi Colt under the skin... The 2014-19 versions are Renault Twingos in a frock. ...From 2007 the tiny 'ForTwo' also had a 999cc Misubishi 3B2 engine; which is quite a lot of engine in such a tiny frame.
 
Trevp666 said:
A solid white line along the carriageway would usually be used to indicate either the edge of the road, or (if used in the centre of the road) to denote that the vehicles on that side of the road should not cross it unless it is safe to do so in order to turn right, or pass a stationary or slow moving vehicle or pedestrians.
As such, the usage of the solid white line painted next to the cycle lane would suggest that cyclists should not move out of the red painted area onto the main carriageway, although it would be perfectly legal to do so.
That being the case, if I were cycling along there, the fact that the raised kerb is painted solid white, would also suggest to me that staying in lane would be advisable. So one should really be cycling with care anyway and avoid crossing the white painted line, whether raised or not.
View attachment 66015
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Im off to Keynsham later this week, will report back. The restructuring of the high street has been going on for years, and only recently finished, there are hardly any shops left. its nearly all charity shops, although they have a great shoe repair/ key cutting/engraving shop, poundland and a post office.

Just to add to the general joy of visiting Keynsham there are ongoing roadworks on the other end of this stretch ( Temple Street) behind where the Photo was taken, this makes going to the sports centre carpark ( behind the disused Fire Station) particularly exciting.

I've seen a couple of peel stumble off the curb and cyclists going the wrong way
 
Morons.

VATICAN CITY - A Vatican court convicted two environmental activists of aggravated damage Monday and ordered them to pay more than 28,000 euros (US$30,000) in restitution after they glued their hands to the base of an ancient statue in the Vatican Museums in a protest to draw attention to climate change.

The two members of the Last Generation environmental activist group, Guido Viero and Ester Goffi, also received a nine-month suspended sentence and were fined 1,620 euros apiece. A third activist on trial with them, Laura Zorzini, was fined 120 euros.

The trial stemmed from an Aug. 18 protest in the Vatican Museums, during which Viero and Goffi glued their hands to the base of the Laocoon statue, one of the most important ancient works in the collection that is believed to date from the 1st century B.C. They hung up a banner reading “Last Generation: No gas and no carbon,” as Zorzini filmed them.

Their action was part of a wave of Last Generation and related activist protests around Europe that have targeted museums and other cultural institutions, tied up traffic for days and otherwise caused disruptions in a bid to draw attention to what the activists say is the failure of governments to take action to fight climate change.

In closing arguments, the lawyer for the Vatican City State accused the defendants of exploiting Pope Francis’ known concern for the environmental cause by causing “inestimable” damage to a piece of the world’s artistic and cultural patrimony.

Attorney Floriana Gigli said Viero and Goffi knew their protest would damage the artwork, citing their decision to glue their hands to the base, not the statue itself, and yet never expressed regret at the damage caused.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/climate-and-...e-fines-them-more-than-28-000-euros-1.6437591
 
OK, went to Keynsham yesterday. Part of the problem is that the pavement is level but the road changes levels as it approaches crossing points . So that sometimes you step off the curb to a level surface and sometimes you step down onto the cycle path. Visually its hard to see the difference in level changes.

Keynsham also has the ugliest civic centre clock I have ever seen and a library with Roman mosaics on the floor but not many books.

One of the other charming features is the homeless guy who lives in the carpark- at one point he had built a bedroom in a corner with pallets for bed and a little privacy, small bedside cabinets and a lamp- which I presume is battery or solar. A while go he had set up outside the council offices- some sort of protest maybe? But he seems quite pleasant and appreciates a costa cuppa.

I wil post pictures if anyone is interested when I figure out how.
 
Katie taking it apart today!
(first item about 'news consumption' not the main thrust of the vid, which follows)
EVs sales slumped.
Smart Meter take-up target pushed back.
Solar Panels don't work when it get's too sunny so 'coal fired' power stations put to use.
 
Trevp666 said:
Katie taking it apart today!
(first item about 'news consumption' not the main thrust of the vid, which follows)
EVs sales slumped.
Smart Meter take-up target pushed back.
Solar Panels don't work when it get's too sunny so 'coal fired' power stations put to use.
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Katie Hopkins ….seriously?.. Each to their own.

Is this the same Katie Hopkins who was kicked off Twitter for spreading poison, fired from LBC for spreading poison, talking about a ‘final solution’ regarding Moslems, deported from Australia, UKIP member etc See Wiki for a much more comprehensive list. Even the Sun & MailOnLine didn’t employ her for long. She doesn’t seem to last anywhere.

This is one of her previous valuable pronouncements:

During an appearance on ITV's This Morning in July 2013, Hopkins said she would stop her children playing with their classmates based on their given names. She expressed a particular dislike for "lower class" names like Charmaine, Chantelle, and Chardonnay, which met with disapproval from co-host Holly Willoughby.

Hopkins said that she did not like "geographical location names" either. After Willoughby's colleague, Phillip Schofield, said that she had given the name India to one of her daughters, Hopkins said that India is "not related to a place”. Ha ha! A viewers' poll conducted by the This Morningprogramme indicated that 91 per cent of respondents disagreed with Hopkins's opinion.
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In 2020, Hopkins was the subject of a prank by Youtuber Josh Pieters. She flew to Prague to accept a fake award, the Campaign to Unify the Nation Trophy.
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Sums her up for me.

She’s on my list of right-wing blogs to avoid, along with Daily Sceptic & Wattsupwiththat.
 
hunck said:
Katie Hopkins ….seriously?.. Each to their own.

Is this the same Katie Hopkins who was kicked off Twitter for spreading poison, fired from LBC for spreading poison, talking about a ‘final solution’ regarding Moslems, deported from Australia, UKIP member etc See Wiki for a much more comprehensive list. Even the Sun & MailOnLine didn’t employ her for long. She doesn’t seem to last anywhere.

This is one of her previous valuable pronouncements:





Sums her up for me.

She’s on my list of right-wing blogs to avoid, along with Daily Sceptic & Wattsupwiththat.
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I thought Lawrence Fox had taken the baton from her. It’s been lovely not seeing her about. It’s best when the media doesn’t give them the exposure.
 
I’ve not listened but it might be interesting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001mwr2
IMG_1276.jpeg
 
Posts that are actually relevant to the thread and further the discussion instead of just throwing around opinionated criticism about individuals are appreciated.

Is it time to buy an electric car? No, not for the majority of people I would expect.
Too expensive to buy and not as cheap to run as one might think.
Still with the range anxiety issues and lack of a decent charging infrastructure across the whole of the country.
Possibly worse for the environment than keeping a well maintained I.C.E vehicle on the road for it's maximum lifespan.
 
Trevp666 said:
Posts that are actually relevant to the thread and further the discussion instead of just throwing around opinionated criticism about individuals are appreciated.
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But if youtube vids by controversial highly opinionated individuals are posted here then it's only natural that they wiLl face robust criticism. Especially if the youtube heads have past form..
 
Ah, but 'Don't shoot the messenger'.
Fine to criticise the opinion though, with a well thought out or referenced piece of info, and not just saying something along the lines of 'They're a looney/racist/homophobe*!' or words to that effect.
(* or whatever name-calling you choose)
I mean, David Icke comes with out some fairly 'out there' stuff, but that is rebuffed with some reasonably easily verified fact-checking ("No David, the Royal family are clearly NOT lizards") without resorting to only calling him a nutcase and that means that therefore his opinion is worthless.
 
It is worth noting that while I'm quite prepared to believe that Katie Hopkins is an odious person with odious views (I personally know relatively little about her), the video contains nothing whatsoever about race.

I don't think she said anything very interesting, mind you, but apart from a stupid reference to 'woke monsters' (IIRC), her speech here is non inflamatory.

It's all just personal assertion.

@Trevp666 if you want to debate the message, choose messengers that don't come with targets painted all over them.
 
Anyhoo... meanwhile, the Chinese are just throwing away brand-new EVs because they aren't selling over there.
What a massive waste of the Earth's resources.
 
Trevp666 said:
Ah, but 'Don't shoot the messenger'.
Fine to criticise the opinion though, with a well thought out or referenced piece of info, and not just saying something along the lines of 'They're a looney/racist/homophobe*!' or words to that effect.
(* or whatever name-calling you choose)
I mean, David Icke comes with out some fairly 'out there' stuff, but that is rebuffed with some reasonably easily verified fact-checking ("No David, the Royal family are clearly NOT lizards") without resorting to only calling him a nutcase and that means that therefore his opinion is worthless.
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But Trev if you post a vid by someone who has called for genocide of Muslims and believes that asylum seekers should be allowed to drown then you're not exactly adding credibility to your case.

Your messenger doesn't provide any facts, just her spin on events.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Anyhoo... meanwhile, the Chinese are just throwing away brand-new EVs because they aren't selling over there.
What a massive waste of the Earth's resources.
Click to expand...

The FT sees problems but as bad as your messenger does

... Drivers in China have embraced electrics — more than a quarter of all cars sold last year were NEVs — but experts say only EV makers with economies of scale and enough financial firepower will remain standing in the years ahead. “Those without a deep-pocketed parent company will be under the largest pressure, especially those that haven’t got access to the equity market,” Jing Yang, a Shanghai-based director at Fitch Ratings, told Nikkei Asia. “For independent EV makers, we still think their brand positioning and cost structure will make the key difference.”

Some are already feeling the heat.

Zhejiang Leapmotor Technology is one of the EV start-ups to go public recently. In the past four years, Leapmotor logged consecutive net losses that widened to Rmb5.1bn ($734mn) in 2022, largely due to higher selling expenses.

“We will try to achieve a balance between sales volume and gross profit,” chief executive Zhu Jiangming told local media in March. “We will prioritise winning market share.”

Hong Kong-listed Leapmotor sold 111,168 vehicles in 2022, a 154.1 per cent yearly growth. By comparison, Tesla delivered 711,000 vehicles in the same period. Leapmotor last month reduced the price of its flagship sedan C01 by a fifth to match rivals

The price war extends to the lower segment. Ballet Cat, an electric hatchback that resembles the Volkswagen Beetle, now sells for as little as Rmb149,800 after a discount of about Rmb50,000 to meet the “market reality”, a promoter said. The model is made under the Ora brand, one of several EV marques under state-owned Great Wall Motor, itself better known for making pick-up trucks. Ora sold 103,996 vehicles in 2022, a 23 per cent dip. ...

https://www.ft.com/content/4aab9565-0bec-4243-bcfd-1f9a7845eef0
 
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