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Not As Environmentally Friendly As Promised

CO2 is a good thing. I’m not sure why there’s cry to reduce it.

A quarter to half of Earth’s vegetated lands has shown significant greening over the last 35 years largely due to rising levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide, according to a new study published in the journal Nature Climate Change on April 25.
An international team of 32 authors from 24 institutions in eight countries led the effort, which involved using satellite data from NASA’s Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectrometer and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Advanced Very High Resolution Radiometer instruments to help determine the leaf area index, or amount of leaf cover, over the planet’s vegetated regions. The greening represents an increase in leaves on plants and trees equivalent in area to two times the continental United States.
Green leaves use energy from sunlight through photosynthesis to chemically combine carbon dioxide drawn in from the air with water and nutrients tapped from the ground to produce sugars, which are the main source of food, fiber and fuel for life on Earth. Studies have shown that increased concentrations of carbon dioxide increase photosynthesis, spurring plant growth.
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https://science.nasa.gov/earth/climate-change/co2-is-making-earth-greenerfor-now/
 
Dick Turpin said:
The real problem is the over population of mother earth.
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Over population is definitely part of the problem, it's the big elephant in the room which - because it is such a sensitive issue - is almost impossible to address on a global scale. And the same goes for the new burdens that we have created on our energy production, namely those unnecessary things like cryptocurrency that are putting a huge strain on our ability to create enough energy without harming the environment.

I must admit I do worry about increasing our reliance on nuclear power though. Nuclear energy has been through a re-branding recently as a 'low carbon' part of the energy mix. I'm with EDF and I often get letters from them listing nuclear along with solar and wind as if it's comparable to them in terms of being environmentally friendly because it's supposedly low carbon. But what about the mining and transportation of the uranium which requires a lot of energy (usually oil-based). And of course the decommissioning of nuclear plants is incredibly expensive, as is the building of them in the first place of course. And I worry about what we're doing with all this waste nuclear fuel, and the cost of storing that safely (which requires energy) or dealing with it by expensively re-processing it.

Nuclear energy seems to me to be far from ideal as an energy source and I don't believe that any advances in technology will improve on that. It's too complex and too expensive. There is a saying that the simplest solutions are almost always the best, and I think that applies especially to energy production.

Politically, nuclear makes a lot of sense, it provides employment for many excellent scientists, and (conveniently) it maintains support and expertise for the military use of nuclear submarines, and (best of all!) it's paid for by the French who have invested heavily in nuclear for years.

Personally, I think that the billions that is spent on nuclear would be much better spent on creating simpler renewable solutions, and investing in the many different forms of storage technology that already exist (but NOT batteries!).

That's what I think anyway. I know it's not quite as simple as that because relying on renewables is not without its challenges but surely it's a better option in the long term!
 
Robin said:
Over population is definitely part of the problem, it's the big elephant in the room which - because it is such a sensitive issue - is almost impossible to address on a global scale. And the same goes for the new burdens that we have created on our energy production, namely those unnecessary things like cryptocurrency that are putting a huge strain on our ability to create enough energy without harming the environment.

I must admit I do worry about increasing our reliance on nuclear power though. Nuclear energy has been through a re-branding recently as a 'low carbon' part of the energy mix. I'm with EDF and I often get letters from them listing nuclear along with solar and wind as if it's comparable to them in terms of being environmentally friendly because it's supposedly low carbon. But what about the mining and transportation of the uranium which requires a lot of energy (usually oil-based). And of course the decommissioning of nuclear plants is incredibly expensive, as is the building of them in the first place of course. And I worry about what we're doing with all this waste nuclear fuel, and the cost of storing that safely (which requires energy) or dealing with it by expensively re-processing it.

Nuclear energy seems to me to be far from ideal as an energy source and I don't believe that any advances in technology will improve on that. It's too complex and too expensive. There is a saying that the simplest solutions are almost always the best, and I think that applies especially to energy production.

Politically, nuclear makes a lot of sense, it provides employment for many excellent scientists, and (conveniently) it maintains support and expertise for the military use of nuclear submarines, and (best of all!) it's paid for by the French who have invested heavily in nuclear for years.

Personally, I think that the billions that is spent on nuclear would be much better spent on creating simpler renewable solutions, and investing in the many different forms of storage technology that already exist (but NOT batteries!).

That's what I think anyway. I know it's not quite as simple as that because relying on renewables is not without its challenges but surely it's a better option in the long term!
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Maybe it's time to start using Thorium reactors? It's currently treated as a waste by-product of nuclear fuel processing and Britain has a huge reserve of it just sitting in vats, doing nothing. Thorium has a huge half-life, gives off less harmful radiation and is generally safer to handle.
I have myself handled Thorium-infused gas mantles when I was a kid and I'm still alive.
 
Well, pardon the Aussie, but that's us fucked then.

In the grand scheme of things, what will happen with the increase in GHG's though...Human beings will be discommoded (lovely word!), but the planet will have, in parts, another Humid Period.

The Antarctic Glacial Period will end, Weather patterns will change over continents, and climate will be altered.

Once again, megafauna (Polar Bears etc) will have an extinction phase. Oceans will warm up with the consequences being that old coral reefs will be barren of Polyp, and new ones will be created elsewhere and new ocean currents will be established.

This has happened before now (in the last 10 million years, the Sahara has gone through over 300 Humid Periods), and it will happen again to us - if we as a species survive.

All of this is because of unfettered progress, determined by Capitalism. We can do things much better, and cheaper but the bottom line is profit taking.

I'm tired of all this - I'm tired of the constant hammering that it's all OUR fault, when one hell of a lot of us are doing the right thing by our planet, without it being a cause célèbre. It has come to the point where farming is being blamed for the increase...and water going through turbines and over spillways...Seriously?

Our Governments know what needs to be done, and yet do fuck all to implement legislation to pull these kapitans of commerce back in line...simple things like being responsible for their product's life time, and allowing an ability to simply repair an item (in situations declared illegal) instead of the need to buy a new item composed of plastics - which is guaranteed to break down within two years.

In some climatic conditions, battery operated vehicles are inoperable, so use an ICE, but elsewhere, encourage public transport, and smaller vehicles with an engine that operates on renewable energy.

Sorry folks - this is all getting ridiculous when our present living conditions are determined by the last line in a Ledger...

I'll get of my soapbox now.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Maybe it's time to start using Thorium reactors? It's currently treated as a waste by-product of nuclear fuel processing and Britain has a huge reserve of it just sitting in vats, doing nothing. Thorium has a huge half-life, gives off less harmful radiation and is generally safer to handle.
I have myself handled Thorium-infused gas mantles when I was a kid and I'm still alive.
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Maybe, although according to the International Atomic Energy Agency it would be very expensive to do the necessary research, development and testing of a thorium-powered nuclear installation 'due to a lack of significant experience with thorium and uranium's historical pre-eminence in nuclear power'.

https://www.iaea.org
 
Robin said:
Maybe, although according to the International Atomic Energy Agency it would be very expensive to do the necessary research, development and testing of a thorium-powered nuclear installation 'due to a lack of significant experience with thorium and uranium's historical pre-eminence in nuclear power'.

https://www.iaea.org
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There are a few plants in operation round the world. Buying in some consultation would help to make the development process easier.
Britain is still putting people through university to get degrees in nuclear physics, but those graduates mostly end up working in some other profession. What a waste of potential.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Britain is still putting people through university to get degrees in nuclear physics, but those graduates mostly end up working in some other profession. What a waste of potential.
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Ironically, a measurable case of dissipation of energy.
 
Is the move to electric cars running out of power? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-69022771

‘Optimists hope more people will buy EVs when cut-price second-hand vehicles come onto the market in Europe and America. But that clear road is not guaranteed.’

I wouldn’t bank on it. What’s the point in buying a cheaper second hand car when you’ll have to replace the battery before long at a massive price?
 
We ordered a 12-bottle case of hot sauce from Amazon. The shipping box proudly proclaimed the boxes were now made with less material. When I opened it, I saw that it didn't contain the actual case the bottles are shipped to the supermarket in, which itself would have been a great shipping box.

Pairs of bottles were rolled up in too much bubble wrap, taped together, encased in a shrink wrap that stuck to the bubble wrap, and then all put in a flimsy topless box, which was then shrink wrapped and labeled so no one in the warehouse would break it into separate units.
 
ChasFink said:
We ordered a 12-bottle case of hot sauce from Amazon. The shipping box proudly proclaimed the boxes were now made with less material. When I opened it, I saw that it didn't contain the actual case the bottles are shipped to the supermarket in, which itself would have been a great shipping box.

Pairs of bottles were rolled up in too much bubble wrap, taped together, encased in a shrink wrap that stuck to the bubble wrap, and then all put in a flimsy topless box, which was then shrink wrapped and labeled so no one in the warehouse would break it into separate units.
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You do wonder what goes through their heads when they do this.
Less 'material'... but more plastic!
 
Mythopoeika said:
You do wonder what goes through their heads when they do this.
Less 'material'... but more plastic!
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I once received this tiny item (that was covered in tons of bubble wrap) inside a large box;

box2.jpg
 
That might seem like a decent wage but I bet they work bloody hard for it. There's probably someone on their case all the time, and someone timing how long their toilet break is and things like that.
 
Analogue Boy said:
The question is, did you really NEED to have that item and start the whole process of ordering, shipping, packaging and fuel costs for delivery in the first place?
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Look. It was for MrsF. It makes a buzzy noise, yet isn't a bee, is called a 'bullet', yet won't be of use in any gun.
So unless you want to take it off her, yes.
 
Analogue Boy said:
The question is, did you really NEED to have that item and start the whole process of ordering, shipping, packaging and fuel costs for delivery in the first place?
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I bet you wish you'd never asked now...
 
Analogue Boy said:
Well I hope it does its bit for the planet by using rechargeables at least.
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Are rechargeables really that much better though?
You have to use electricity to charge them.

As long as you recycle them, (maybe) the old sort are better. ?
 
Floyd said:
Are rechargeables really that much better though?
You have to use electricity to charge them.

As long as you recycle them, (maybe) the old sort are better. ?
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Each non-rechargeable battery has to be manufactured and then recycled (using energy and materials) so I suppose the longer you can keep batteries going with rechargeable ones the better.
 
Robin said:
Each non-rechargeable battery has to be manufactured and then recycled (using energy and materials) so I suppose the longer you can keep batteries going with rechargeable ones the better.
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Fair enough.
I'll get some. She doesn't half get through them.
 
It has been discovered that the state of Pennsylvania sits on a 400 million year old Marcellus Shale which contains the largest know deposit in the world of valuable lithium needled for all these batteries we use.

The problem is fracking has to be used using tremendous amounts of water under pressure to wash out the lithium, but huge amounts of of other toxic substances are released in the process.

How to frack without destroying the state of Pennsylvania ?
 
I'm not sure if this is this right place for this post but apologies if it isn't:


I'm glad to see heat pumps are becoming popular, they seem to be fairly efficient from what I've heard, although not everyone seems to be that keen on them. There's a lot of confusion about how they work which is totally understandable. We're always told that they extract 'heat energy' from outside, but how is that possible when it's colder outside then in? I did 2 years at college training in aircon and commercial refrigeration many years ago, my career in it was very short-lived thanks to a teenage nitwit who shot out of a side road one day and wrote off my little Peugeot 205, which injured my hand and wrist (as I was gripping the steering wheel very tightly on impact). I couldn't write or anything for a couple of months and had to find a different career in the end (I got into computers and web design instead).

Anyway, I understand heat pumps because, as most people know, they work on the same principle as refrigeration does.

The interesting thing about heat pumps is that the way they generate sufficient heat to heat our homes is by rapidly compressing a gas. It's not actually a result of extracting any 'heat energy' from outside as we're often told.

I remember as a kid that every time I pumped up the types on my bicycle the pump would get so hot that it was almost to hot to hold sometimes. Obviously, when you rapidly compress air or a gas it gets very hot; that's basically how diesel engines work, the air is compressed and gets so hot it ignites the fuel. The heat pump works on pretty much the same principle, and the heat generated is used to heat water for the home.

The whole thing about pumping the gas outside your home and then bringing it back in is simply to make it possible to repeat the cycle of compressing gas to create heat. Why is that necessary? It's because that by the time the gas has been compressed and then given up its heat to heat our home it has cooled a bit and condensed back into a liquid, and you can't compress a liquid! You can only compress a gas. So the liquid has to be turned back into a gas, and that's where the outside unit comes in. The gas is pumped round and then forced through a tiny hole, which has the opposite effect of compressing it, it vaporizes it and turns it into liquid droplets and makes it very cold, colder than the air outside. And because heat energy always moves from a warm place to a cold place, the vapour will absorb any heat energy outside (because the vapour is colder) and it will then 'boil off' to become a gas again ready to be rapidly compressed again to generate heat. But It's the compression that gives us our heat NOT the actual absorbing of any 'heat energy' from outside.

When we think of heat we immediately think of warmth, but the term 'heat energy' means something a bit different. No matter how cold it gets, there is always some 'heat energy' in the air (until you get to near absolute zero which is about −273 Celsius).

So the job of the outside unit is simply to return the liquid vapour back to a gas so we can compress it again to get some more heat, in a cycle.


I wasn't too sad by the way to see the back of that Peugeot as it was so hot inside in the summer, it was like a mobile oven. It was very economical though.


Another thing connected with refrigeration/aircon that's interesting is that I was always taught that if an aircon system has a leak it is technically illegal to put gas back into it without fixing the leak first (as stated in the COSHH regulations}. To do so is effectively illegally releasing (or 'disposing') of refrigerate into the air, because it will just leak out again. All aircon and refrigeration is supposed to be in a SEALED system. It's not supposed to leak out.

How is it then that so many garages offer an aircon regass??? Your cars aircon should not need regassing. It's supposed to be a sealed/closed system. It's not like your car's oil or petrol that needs 'topping up'. It should last the life of the aircon unit. If if needs regassing then it means there's a leak, which should BY LAW be fixed BEFORE any gas is reintroduced.

It was something I read in a magazine in a dentist's waiting room years ago funny enough that got me thinking about this. It was a car magazine and there was an advert offering regassing aircon machines for mechanics, saying that a garages ability to offer aircon regasses was a very "lucrative" adjunct to their business. But the fact is, if you add gas to a cars aircon WITHOUT fixing the leak first you are technically 'illegally disposing a controlled substance'. Just a thought.


Of all the marvelous things that humans have invented the invention of a machine that can lower the air's temperature has always seemed to me to be an almost magical achievement. It's amazing really when you think about it.
 
ChasFink said:
We ordered a 12-bottle case of hot sauce from Amazon. The shipping box proudly proclaimed the boxes were now made with less material. When I opened it, I saw that it didn't contain the actual case the bottles are shipped to the supermarket in, which itself would have been a great shipping box.

Pairs of bottles were rolled up in too much bubble wrap, taped together, encased in a shrink wrap that stuck to the bubble wrap, and then all put in a flimsy topless box, which was then shrink wrapped and labeled so no one in the warehouse would break it into separate units.
Click to expand...

If you really cared about ethical shopping, you wouldn't order from there :curt:
 
ShadyCavalier said:
If you really cared about ethical shopping, you wouldn't order from there :curt:
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Point well taken, and if I wasn't in a financial situation that forced me to take advantage of a ridiculously low price when one presents itself, I might never buy from there.
 
Robin said:
I'm not sure if this is this right place for this post but apologies if it isn't:


I'm glad to see heat pumps are becoming popular, they seem to be fairly efficient from what I've heard, although not everyone seems to be that keen on them. There's a lot of confusion about how they work which is totally understandable. We're always told that they extract 'heat energy' from outside, but how is that possible when it's colder outside then in? I did 2 years at college training in aircon and commercial refrigeration many years ago, my career in it was very short-lived thanks to a teenage nitwit who shot out of a side road one day and wrote off my little Peugeot 205, which injured my hand and wrist (as I was gripping the steering wheel very tightly on impact). I couldn't write or anything for a couple of months and had to find a different career in the end (I got into computers and web design instead).

Anyway, I understand heat pumps because, as most people know, they work on the same principle as refrigeration does.

The interesting thing about heat pumps is that the way they generate sufficient heat to heat our homes is by rapidly compressing a gas. It's not actually a result of extracting any 'heat energy' from outside as we're often told.

I remember as a kid that every time I pumped up the types on my bicycle the pump would get so hot that it was almost to hot to hold sometimes. Obviously, when you rapidly compress air or a gas it gets very hot; that's basically how diesel engines work, the air is compressed and gets so hot it ignites the fuel. The heat pump works on pretty much the same principle, and the heat generated is used to heat water for the home.

The whole thing about pumping the gas outside your home and then bringing it back in is simply to make it possible to repeat the cycle of compressing gas to create heat. Why is that necessary? It's because that by the time the gas has been compressed and then given up its heat to heat our home it has cooled a bit and condensed back into a liquid, and you can't compress a liquid! You can only compress a gas. So the liquid has to be turned back into a gas, and that's where the outside unit comes in. The gas is pumped round and then forced through a tiny hole, which has the opposite effect of compressing it, it vaporizes it and turns it into liquid droplets and makes it very cold, colder than the air outside. And because heat energy always moves from a warm place to a cold place, the vapour will absorb any heat energy outside (because the vapour is colder) and it will then 'boil off' to become a gas again ready to be rapidly compressed again to generate heat. But It's the compression that gives us our heat NOT the actual absorbing of any 'heat energy' from outside.

When we think of heat we immediately think of warmth, but the term 'heat energy' means something a bit different. No matter how cold it gets, there is always some 'heat energy' in the air (until you get to near absolute zero which is about −273 Celsius).

So the job of the outside unit is simply to return the liquid vapour back to a gas so we can compress it again to get some more heat, in a cycle.


I wasn't too sad by the way to see the back of that Peugeot as it was so hot inside in the summer, it was like a mobile oven. It was very economical though.


Another thing connected with refrigeration/aircon that's interesting is that I was always taught that if an aircon system has a leak it is technically illegal to put gas back into it without fixing the leak first (as stated in the COSHH regulations}. To do so is effectively illegally releasing (or 'disposing') of refrigerate into the air, because it will just leak out again. All aircon and refrigeration is supposed to be in a SEALED system. It's not supposed to leak out.

How is it then that so many garages offer an aircon regass??? Your cars aircon should not need regassing. It's supposed to be a sealed/closed system. It's not like your car's oil or petrol that needs 'topping up'. It should last the life of the aircon unit. If if needs regassing then it means there's a leak, which should BY LAW be fixed BEFORE any gas is reintroduced.

It was something I read in a magazine in a dentist's waiting room years ago funny enough that got me thinking about this. It was a car magazine and there was an advert offering regassing aircon machines for mechanics, saying that a garages ability to offer aircon regasses was a very "lucrative" adjunct to their business. But the fact is, if you add gas to a cars aircon WITHOUT fixing the leak first you are technically 'illegally disposing a controlled substance'. Just a thought.


Of all the marvelous things that humans have invented the invention of a machine that can lower the air's temperature has always seemed to me to be an almost magical achievement. It's amazing really when you think about it.
Click to expand...
So heat pumps just do the opposite of air conditioners by reversing the process, ie with air-con a liquid refrigerant is turned to hot gas and taken outside, then the gas turns back into a liquid and the room cools- and so on?
 
Heat pumps are likely more efficient than gas central heating but as the fuel used
electric is more expensive it could end up being more expensive to run.
 
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