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Obesity Virus Claim By US Researcher

beakboo said:
Well why didn't I think of that? :hmph: After all, anyone can do power walking and use stairs. :rolleyes:
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You know I thought from the context of my origonal post that the advice was for people with a stone or two to loose and no other medical problems. Obviously I was wrong.

Of course the fact that I lost 8.5 stone while suffering from ME and Asthma on a diet that has improved my ME might be of interest to other ME sufferers but presubably you'd rather just take the piss.

Cujo
 
Cujo said:
You know I thought from the context of my origonal post that the advice was for people with a stone or two to loose and no other medical problems. Obviously I was wrong.

Of course the fact that I lost 8.5 stone while suffering from ME and Asthma on a diet that has improved my ME might be of interest to other ME sufferers but presubably you'd rather just take the piss.
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I'm sorry if you think I'm taking the piss Cujo, I'm not, I'm making a point, in my clumsy homespun way. I do get a little touchy about being excluded (possibly a little over-touchy at times I admit). It was the fact that it came from you that rather floored me.
I would be interested in your diet, but it sounds rather frightening. :( (I have my own horrible M.E. diet -the Hay-which I'm going to go back on tomorrow, as the health is getting out of hand. Not to mention the love handles turning into a safety rail)
 
beakboo said:
I would be interested in your diet, but it sounds rather frightening.
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Does that mean you want me to PM you with information about it? As I mentioned earlier I won't publish details on an open forum as it's dangerous if not done under medical supervision.

Cujo
 
Cujo said:
Does that mean you want me to PM you with information about it?
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If the Hay diet doesn't rid me of my present problems then I may have to get back to you. But it sounds a bit too horrible to contemplate at the moment. In other words I'm not feeling quite ill enough yet. :p
 
It seems to me that there are two different weight issues being discussed here, and confusing them one with the other will result in misinformation and even antagonism.

There are body image issues related to weight. These tend to be the ones people get feisty about. People who are more meticulous about their body image and weight in relation thereto upset and annoy those who ascribe to the 'like yourself the way you are" school of thought. More fair to all would be to say "to each his own" and we might all wish that the media fairly and realistically celebrated the innate beauty that every person no matter how they look has. Unfortunately, inner beauty is hard to depict in visual media, so they fall back on images of a cliche of physical beauty. Now, on the side of that cliche: Clear bright eyes, a firm heathly physique, and ideal ratio of waist to bust-and-hip, long shining hair (and note: mine is short) etc. are all signifiers of 'female beauty' in that they are generally (when natural) indicitive of youth, health and an ability to bear children. This is our species wanting to survive, at the most base level. And before the men start yelling, there are similar features or characteristics that women's most deep instincts equate to 'male attractiveness'. Guess what? The top two for men are physical strength and making money. How's that for "shallow"? So let's just say that there are real reasons for the instinctive measurements of beauty or attractiveness that we as a species have, and that intelligence and sensitivity are understood to be more appealing in the long run, but are not easily depicted and so not a media or cultural focus. But as Forteans, we are all above the "look at that set/look at those pecs" mindset. Right? Right.

Now, there are also health/medical issues related to weight and appearance, and one of those is mental health. As in: if you look into the mirrior, decide you don't like what you see, and decide to change, that decision does not necessarily make you a shallow person or a sell-out to a media driven unrealistic ideal. Keep in mind too that some people are unable to lose weight, or gain weight, or whatever. Judgemental remarks in any direction on this subject is harsh and unfair, but not especially rare, because we all have one major and one minor yardstick we are using when we look at one another - our own self image and personal ideal of beauty, and the bit that we have absorbed from the media.

It might be well for people replying to this thread to note if they are addressing image issues, or body health issues or mental health/personal image issues. So far the three have been very mixed, with a post aimed at one point attacked from another.
 
There was a Ch4 docu on the Obesity Virus thing tonight - I didn't have time to post a reminder, and I was out myself.

But I have video'd it, so will report anything interesting tomorrow sometime.
 
But as Forteans, we are all above the "look at that set/look at those pecs" mindset. Right? Right.
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In so far as we shouldn't judge people on appearance, yes, I'd agree. But I always find it odd (not directed at you, Fallen Angel, just a comment) that if somebody takes pride in their appearance, goes to the gym and works out or goes on the sunbed, they'll get snide comments about them being "all brawn and no brain", or "shallow", or a "dumb blonde" (for a woman). Yet nobody would dream of criticising someone who makes their house looks nice, or spends three days a week in the garden or keeps their car spotless. Indeed, doing all those things is actually expected. But how much more important is your body than a patch of grass or a box on wheels? In my experience the people who do make comments like this are always - always - the jealous ones who couldn't be bothered to do it for themselves.

Again, because of the past brou-ha-ha (good word) of this thread I stress that I'm not directing my comments at anybody here. It's just that Fallen Angel's post made me think about the subject (after I said I'd had enough of this thread ;) )
 
C4 DOCUMENTARY: Fat Plague

The docu did not reveal a lot more info than was given in the Guardian article.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,867841,00.html

But the attitude shown here seems unnecessarily hostile:
".. Stephen Bloom, an endocrinologist at Imperial College, London, was sceptical. He said: "We know that obesity has been growing at a very constant rate for about 50 years and the cause is obvious. People are eating much more and taking less exercise. Why do we need to invent some strange theory about a virus?"

The point is, the theory was not 'invented', but discovered. The story started in India, where Dr Nikhil Dhurandhar worked as a doctor in Bombay, specialising in obesity. He heard about a virus that was killing off flocks of chickens: when vetinary specialists studied the birds, they discovered that they all had greatly increased fat levels. Dr Dhurandhar then experimented by injecting healthy chickens with the virus, and found that their fat levels also increased.

Convinced that more research was needed, he moved to the US, and found that monkeys could be infected with the (human) AD 36 virus, and they also showed dramatic weight gains. But he was getting little support from the scientific community, and was on the point of returning to India before he got university backing for more research. Since they couldn't infect humans with the virus, they researched the antibodies to the virus found in human blood, with the results already described - obese people were more likely to have been exposed to the virus than control groups. The geographical spread of obesity in the US also mirrored the spread of other viruses studied by epidemiologists. The C4 programme also showed a pair of twins of different weights (which is rare) - the larger one had the antibodies.

But there lies the rub - at present it seems the virus invades the body and does its work (probably on 'pre-fat' cells) before the body fights it off - hence the antibodies. This means obese people are no longer infectious - but if anyone sneezes near you, beware! It also means that fat people cannot (at present) be 'cured', because the damage has already been done. But better understanding of the problem will no doubt lead to new ideas. There was a suggestion that the virus may have arisen as a result of interactions between human and chicken viruses (remember that Asian flu is also poultry related).

There certainly seems to be some viral component to the obesity probablem. (This could perhaps also explain why it runs in fanilies - not only similar genes and eating habits, but you are more likely to catch infections from your nearest and dearest!)
 
Hmm. The chickens thing doesn't ring true. If the virus was killing chickens then it is evident that weight gain was a side effect of a very powerful contagion. So it could hardly be called a "fat virus" if it killed the damn things. It's like saying there's a weight loss virus going round called HIV.

I'd be willing to concede - and I don't know if it was mentioned in the prog - that some type of virus might increase the likelihood of a person becoming overweight (which is different to making them overweight). So if a person had eaten chocolate and chips every day of their life and remained thin due to a fast metabolism, then contracted this virus, then it might slow up their metabolism and cause them to get fat.

But I still don't believe that it happens that a healthy person who eats well and exercises just puts on weight for no apparent reason. I've never heard of it, anyway.
 
Caroline, I have re-read your post. It said the same as when I read it before. You say you put on weight suddenly without any change in habits. My post says:-

I'd be willing to concede - and I don't know if it was mentioned in the prog - that some type of virus might increase the likelihood of a person becoming overweight (which is different to making them overweight).
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then

But I still don't believe that it happens that a healthy person who eats well and exercises just puts on weight for no apparent reason. I've never heard of it, anyway.
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Please direct me to the part of your post that tells me you were eating a healthy diet, as I assume this is what you are meaning.

Wenna - I assume you mean your last but one post. And yes, I reread that too. Your point is? You mentioned your husband gaining weight after having diabetes. And...? I don't understand how this might fit in with my post.

Of course, I might be barking up the wrong tree in my response, but it's kind of difficult to discuss the issue in response to clever one-liners designed to troll more than state opinion or inform.
 
No probs ;) - bad day - loads of work and not a penny to show for it! That's what comes of being self-employed.

But in response, did you visit a doctor (rather than dietician) about this? Because there are a number of difficult-to-diagnose issues, including diabetes and glandular problems, that might be the cause of your putting on weight, and you can't detect them except by specific tests. That's why a lot of people have mild diabetes but don't realise it, because the symptoms are not serious enough to consult a doctor about and unless you're tested for it specifically you sometimes can't tell. I'm not suggesting you have diabetes, of course, but I'm just saying that there could well be a minor problem that has been missed without invoking the spectre of viruses and the like.

A guy at university went from being plump - about 12 st at an average height, to about 20 st in a year or so. He had a thyroid problem and it took the doctors about 6 months to work it out, but once they had he was put on treatment and although I don't know wether he was totally cured as I lost contact, he was certainly on the way when I last heard.
 
Sure, it would be good to know for certain. Could it have been some precursor to the thyroid problem, some warning blip or something? No idea, just guessing.

But as long as it doesn't happen too frequently! ;)
 
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