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Old Lady

I work with a lot of old ladies and I can tell you what a very strange lot they can be sometimes. Mental illness, physical illness and age can do peculiar things to a person's mind and appearance. Despite the terrifying faces and mannerisms some old ladies have though, I've yet to see one that I've thought is supernatural.

One springs to mind particularly. she was a very sweet lady in her eighties; tiny and confined to a wheelchair. Her speech was pretty unintelligible but she used to always smile and pat your hand and touch your face as if you were the most beautiful thing she'd ever seen. Until one day she got it into her head that someone had stolen money from her (a common feature of dementia it seems) and I saw her face suddenly change into something absolutely unrecognisable. It was exactly like that scene in Lord of the Rings where the old hobbit's face turns into a terrifying snarl. It was so sudden and frightening that I fell backwards onto a chair. She honestly didn't look like the same person. Nothing supernatural about this one though - she just had dementia.

Dementia really can make a person seem as if they're living in some alternate reality, where the things they say make perfect sense, just not in the context in which they're said. I used to try to reason with people with alzeimers, to try and bring them back to earth as it were but I realised that this is completely hopeless, sad as that is. THe best you can do is try and get onto their wave-length and humour them a little, as tattooed's sister did.
 
A friend of mine's dad, a Liverpool docker - through and through, was dying of cancer (sorry for that bomb-shell) and on his death bed insisted that there were 'other' people (as well as his large family) in the room. I knew this man reasonably well - to the extent that I would be often be invited round for Sunday lunch (a 'mammoth' affair 'cos of his large family) and join 'them'.

Anyway. He was out of hospital (things were that bad). He 'saw' people in the corner of the bedroom. Not people he recognised. The family, as I understand, just blamed it on the pain killers he was taking.

Could 'we' be 'missing' things here?
 
OldTimeRadio said:
I asked my physician about this just last month. His reply: "You have to understand that 60 is the new 40 and 80 the new 60."
Careful, mate, I think you're repeating yourself! 8)
 
Probably the single best fictional warning of the dangers of getting into contact with the "other yourself" remains Robert Louis Stevenson's "The Strange Story of Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde."

And the same spirit seems to lie at the root of many of our "mirror fears." If the image we view in the mirror is our visual reversal, might it also be our moral/ethical/spiritual opposite as well?
 
Tattooted's post pretty much sums up my attitudes; a sort of ignorance-is-bliss hopefulness. Keep walking, keep humming, look for an exit, follow the sun, don't look, don't acknowledge. Past few years have been lovely and virtually incident free. I'm hoping I've grown out of it and long may that last.

The old woman on the bridge event happened simply as posted. No way to stop; it was a bridge and there were vechicles ahead and behind; a one-way bridge, the road curved shortly afterwards, at night on a long, dark country road. I was concentrating.

I felt badly about not stopping to do something. On my own, I may well have stopped further along and gone back for her. I've done that sort of thing before; made a billy of tea and pile of slapdash sandwiches and went across to the railway stock-yards to give the meal to a man and some younger people (his teenage children, I believed) whom I'd seen herding cattle into the stock yards in pouring rain at about nine at night.

My parents were in bed at the time. No-one knew I'd left the house. I ducked through several barbed-wire fences, over the railway lines and wandered around the stock yards for five or ten minutes, looking and calling out for the rain-drenched family. Not there. When I arrived home, feeling a bit stupid, my father was in the kitchen, watched me come in. 'Where have you been?'. ' Taking some food to those poor people over in the stock yards.'. 'Which people?'. ' A drover and some kids.'

My father went to the living room, peered through the window. Then went out on the verandah to see if he could spot anyone from there. Came inside and said to me: 'There's no-one there.'.

' I know, I couldn't find them.'.

' Well get to bed then and don't go wandering off again without asking first. And you can take those sandwiches for school lunch tomorrow and eat the lot. Teach you to go wasting food'.

Next day, in daylight and sunshine, no-one in the one-horse town knew anything about a drover and others herding cattle into the stock-yards. We owned the local-store; my parents were the first to hear everything.
' You want to be careful,' my father warned me later, ' that imagination'll get you into trouble one of these days.' Every now and then, he'd say something about not being stupid enough to open my big mouth and talk about certain-things, or I'd just make a fool of myself. ('What things?' Response; 'Never you mind. Just watch yourself. Get your mind on what matters.'

But I'd seen the man in oil-slicks, sitting on his horse and had seen how worn-out his face was, and his children's faces. I'd heard the cattle. No-one else had heard or seen them, apparently.

I figured they must have loaded their cattle into a truck or something, very early in the morning, before anyone was awake. They couldn't have loaded them into the train, because it only came through a couple of days a week. Usually, the cattle had to wait in the yard until then. The stock-yards adjoined our property, I knew what cattle sounded like. So I have no idea what that was about, but I do remember seeing the man and kids faces, absolutely exhausted. They'd broken my heart. I saw the man's face in close-up, actually, can still remember it, with his face twisted and worried. Which is why I'd made the sandwiches and gone looking for them.

I've stopped for people on the road in the past. When I first gained my licence and got a car, in my mid-30's, I felt guilty about passing anyone on foot. It lasted a while, still bothers me often enough.

I probably would have stopped for the old woman or gone back for her. It was my son of all people, who repeatedly stressed I must not do so. He's extremely low key. He's the type to shrug and say (if he says anything at all) regarding people's less than wise decisions: ' Hey, no-one made them do it, it was their choice ...'. He doesn't get involved; he's an observer; he's not given to offering advice and certainly not forcefully, so the event was notable for that reason alone, from my point of view. Even so, as I was approaching the roundabout at the crossroads, it was only my son's insistent voice in my ear that prevented me from taking the bridge road to see if I could help the old woman.

No, it was not a case of my forming an impression of the old lady and transmitting it to my son. It was night-time. The bridge was a hazard. I was concentrating on the road and bridge and other cars and so only caught a momentary view of her. She was on my son's side of the car; he was closest to her and because he wasn't driving, he got a much better look at her and was able to continue looking at her to a far greater degree than I.

I haven't re-read my post, but in it, I may have said that I was hesitant to even remark about the old woman to my son, because he's not that way inclined; he doesn't like anything that smacks of the paranormal and has clammed up when his sister's attempted to discuss various things from childhood. He wouldn't even consider watching a horror movies. He is sports mad. He likes to stay in the here and now. He prefers to live within a very narrow band and anything remotely hinting of supernatural is entirely excluded, as is his right (and as may be a wise decision on his part).

That night, he was impatient to get to our destination and immerse himself in a televised football match. He wanted old mum out of the way. Being a teenager, he didn't enjoy being driven around by old mum and in order to deal with that, he used to sit largely unspeaking in the car as if he was a passenger in a taxi with a faceless driver.

It was my son who was most disturbed by the old woman. I was amazed he'd seen roughly the same thing as I had because when I'd hesitatingly remarked about her, I'd fully expected him to scoff or snort and say he'd noticed nothing. I had no way of knowing if my impression of the old woman was accurate. My son confirmed what I'd seen. I then felt confident enough to continue in saying that I'd formed the stupid impression that if we'd given her a lift, she would have turned into something ghastly. Again I expected him to scoff or give me one of those looks to mean ' You're crazy - I don't know what you're talking about ! ' But he agreed, with energy and he wasn't joking. You'd need to know him to know how unusual this all was.

So the incident was memorable enough based in the fact he'd not only seen pretty much what I'd seen, but had actually admitted it. I get over things quite swiftly, based I suppose on being assured from childhood on, often quite forcefully, that 'imagination' is responsible for so much. Of course you doubt yourself and your own experiences. Of course you subject them to scepticism, much as an outsider would. Of course you want to conform, want to please. You tell yourself it's highly probable that others are correct. Better to have friends and their approval in the here and now than insist you know what you experienced. Crazy people insist against all odds that they're right. Who wants to be crazy? Who wants to be regarded as crazy? I'm sure many people reveal things in these forums that they'd never consider discussing with their family and friends.

So by the time I'd driven my son to our destination, I was moving forward in my thoughts. Chatted a moment with the host and was ready to be off. Didn't expect my son to even acknowledge my departure, because that wouldn't be regarded as 'manly' before other males. So I was hugely surprised when he not only managed to keep his attention from the already-in-progress football match but also revealed 'unmanly' concern for his mother before the other men by warning me emphatically and repeatedly against stopping for the old woman or even taking the bridge road. My son made deliberate eye-contact with me, in order to silently extra affirm his concern.

I've only raised the issue a couple of times in all the years past. By this time, I'd expect him to have long forgotten the incident. Last time the event was mentioned (considerable time ago) I was surprised to learn that it is still charged with considerable energy in his mind, is still fresh and affects him as strongly, I would estimate, as the night in question. He prides himself on betraying very little emotion, so I know the event had considerable effect upon him ----------- far more so than on me.

Like most, I've seen and interacted with quite a number of old women. When I was younger, I boarded in a place in which I was the only person under 65. They used to creep around silently, in slippers, their white hair framing their wizened faces. They used to stick newspaper on their cuts and bruises because they didn't want to waste bandages. They were yellowish and covered in liver-spots. They were odd sometimes. They used to extend their knobbly, wasted hands out of nowhere and stroke my hair or arm as I was engrossed in making a meal in the common kitchen. They'd invite me into their rooms under some or other pretext, and then slip their photo albums on my knee as they had so many times before, and tell me in detail about every single blurry individual within them. I tried to please them and make their past live again by remembering as many people and events from their past as I could. They pressed horrible tea on me and I drank it, even though the milk was rancid and I knew flies had raised entire generations within the sugar bowl. I missed dates and appointments rather than leave them mid-sentence. I was there when some of them died. They never scared me in an important way, other than give me a shock on occasion when they slipped up behind me. They never haunted my dreams or days after they died. They never hurt me or ever intended to.

In recent years, my work involved daily contact with elderly and mostly house-bound old people. I've no fear of them, quite enjoy them. They have never frightened me. Annoyed me sometimes, yes, but even the most decrepit have not frightened me. Whether the old woman appearing creature on the bridge was a version of the old Hag, I wouldn't know. I've never thought of it in that light -- just reported the incident as I remember it.
 
Haha, I just had some difficulties finding my old post and I have to say it all sounds rather dodgy [what I wrote] and really I have no idea what's on the other hand... :oops:
 
again6 said:
I felt badly about not stopping to do something.

Again6, I am personally happy that you did not. I realize I'm going to get catcalls from some of the listsibs for saying this, but I can't escape this overwhelming feeling that had you stopped you would not be here with us today.
 
Creamstick1 wrote:

There was an old woman in a bed in the corridor too - the bed was raised, so she was lying down just above my head height, on her side, facing away from me. There was no-one around (that particular part of the hospital is kinda like the hospital from Jacob's Ladder). There was no sound except for this whispering coming from the old woman, I looked up at her and she started to slowly turn around. As she turned the whispering turned into this gutteral moaning, getting louder until she was lying on her back, this honestly terrifying almost roar coming from her as she thrashed around in the bed, it seemed like in slow motion. She then shot up, leaned over me and started screaming "GOD HELP ME! JESUS HELP ME! GOD HELP ME!!". Her face was contorted into this mask of pure evil, like a caricature of some demon.

I was terrified, absolutely panic stricken - just paralysed by fear. A door behind me opened, a nurse walked out and smiled sweetly at the old woman. "Oh Ina, come on, we'll get you upstairs" she said, smiling, good-nature in her voice. She wheeled the bed away around a corner, the old woman still screaming and staring at me the whole time.

I have honestly never been so scared in my entire life.

Now that, for me, is horror.
 
Mossy_Sloth wrote:

......an old lady over in the corner of the common room muttering to herself.

She had a terrified look on her face and was saying over and over "oh god, help me, please help me, help...help me..please..."

..... the state of terror and despair seemed permanent for her,especially as no one else seemed to notice or try to make her feel better



How chilling. How horrifying, to be inside that old woman's mind, to be alone, in terror, whilst surrounded by people and the usual clatter and chatter. Like being in a waking-nightmare, unable to get out.

I wonder if she was seeing the little people common to those with Charles Bonnet syndrome? And if so, were they deliberately tormenting and terrifying her because they were aware only she could see them and that no-one would believe her, take her seriously or help her ?

That poor old woman could be anyone here, in a few or many years to come.
 
Frobush wrote:

A friend of mine's dad, a Liverpool docker ...

.......He 'saw' people in the corner of the bedroom. Not people he recognised. The family, as I understand, just blamed it on the pain killers he was taking.

Could 'we' be 'missing' things here?


Quite similar to something confided to me by a 70-something neighbour in Australia, who said that a day or so before he died, her husband had seen and spoken to his mother, who had died many years before, in England. She said that as his family helped him from the living-room and down the hall to his bedroom, he continually paused, turned painfully around and said in jocular manner: ' Come on mother, keep up.'

My neighbour said he was normally aware of all his children and grandchildren, was totally lucid, participated normally within conversation with them, and apparently also saw and conversed with his long deceased mother; believed she was amongst the party.

My neighbour speculated her husband's mother knew he had very limited time left and had come to 'take him home'. Which is fine, as long as you liked your mother while she was alive, lol. Wonder if Joan Crawford's daughter is looking forward to her final days and a possible spectral reappearance of those wire coat-hangers ?
 
How common is for "pure evil" to implore "GOD HELP ME! JESUS HELP ME! GOD HELP ME!!"?
 
When my Mother's Mother lay deathly ill in the Spring of 1956 she saw - and talked with - her dead parents and aunts and uncles, among others. She also saw her dead brother who'd died at the age of two (nearly 70 years earlier and I believe in the same house).

Grandma recovered and enjoyed reasonably good health for nearly another two years before dying the day before Thanksgiving, 1958.
 
OldTimeRadio wrote:


How common is it for "pure evil" to implore "GOD HELP ME! JESUS HELP ME! GOD HELP ME!!"?

Agree, OTR, I suspect the 'pure evil' perceived as being the old woman's face may in fact have been the tortured face of an old woman who was being tormented and terrified by something akin to evil. God help her indeed and all in her condition.
 
OldTimeRadio wrote:

When my Mother's Mother lay deathly ill in the Spring of 1956 she saw - and talked with - her dead parents and aunts and uncles, among others. She also saw her dead brother who'd died at the age of two (nearly 70 years earlier and I believe in the same house).

Now you see, I believe accounts such as this. Haven't ever witnessed or experienced the situation, but what I have experienced and more importantly heard from others and read about, all persuades in this direction and whenever possible, I've strongly suggested to those petrified of death that they will be ushered through with love and care. We deserve it to be so, as well, with the exception of certain political figures who, in my opinion, deserve to be nailed to a flat-bed truck and trawled for a few eternities through a hell similar to that which they inflicted on millions of others.

Years ago, I read a number of old books which in turn were based on far older accounts, which described how several family members and/or neighbours (and in at least one instance a member of the clergy) themselves witnessed, by the bedside of dying persons, the figures of deceased relatives. There's a quite famous older account which describes how for several days, what sounded like 'heavenly choirs' emanated from the chamber of someone close to death. The sound could be heard some distance from the room and a clergyman made written note of it, so deeply affected was he.

Bedside vigils by the already deceased are part of the folklore of most cultures; I think it might have been Scott Rogo who included several examples within one of his books and a tale attributed to a cleric connected with the Vatican supports, via personal experience the belief that those who've already passed on continue in many instances to take an interest in and provide assistance and support, to the living.

The account I find most touching involved an elderly WW1 soldier, who, during a near death experience in old age, was greeted by a horse for which he'd developed particular affection, half a century before, in the trenches. The old soldier described a version of light and tunnel and as he emerged into the light, there was the horse, waiting for him, delighted to see him, nuzzling him affectionately. The soldier said the horse was again in the peak of condition, which delighted him because it had had a sad end. The old man said that being reunited with the horse was the most wonderful and unexpected experience of his life; something I think animal lovers will understand. All too soon, the old man was pulled back into his body. After all he'd experienced of life and man, he'd had no belief in an afterlife and had fully expected it would be simply black nothingness. After his near-death experience however, he now looked forward to death, any time it wanted to claim him, because he knew what happiness it held.

I knew an man, then in his 80's, who'd also had a tough life. His daughter had only recently been ordained and asked him to recount an experience he'd only a short time earlier confided finally to close family members concerning something he experienced as a boy of 10 or so. He'd fallen down a shaft and had lain there for more than a day while people searched for him on the top. Finally and with great difficulty, they'd lifted him out. He was broken in several places and in those days they had no plaster of paris, so they'd 'set' his broken limbs by placing them between bags of sand. He'd apparently hovered between life and death for several weeks, never regaining consciousness. The old doctor suggested it might be better if he drifted into death, but the family kept hope.

Finally the boy broke through and began to mumble. It was many months before he recuperated. He wasn't particularly happy when he regained consciousness, because he'd been having a wonderful time, he told me, with a bunch of wonderful people whom he'd been very sorry to have to leave. All his life, he missed them, wondered who they were, where they were and if he'd ever see them again. The place he'd been was preferable to where he was. But he got on with life and made a reasonable job of it. When he was quite elderly, he'd confided some of this to his daughter, who asked him to share his story with her congregation. I saw him the day he was to do so, his hair slicked back neatly like a five year old's, his shoes polished like glass and his best suit on. He'd kept his experience a secret almost all his life for fear of what people would think. Now, although he was still a bit apprehensive, he was off to tell it to a crowd of strangers because he'd been assured it would make a lot of them feel better. It was a very liberating experience for him.

Science can tell me whatever it likes, regarding chemicals in the brain that churn out fantasies during its dying moments, but I choose instead to accept the simple testimony of ordinary people who have throughout many thousands of years, recounted the same story. In any event, I've seen a ghost. Science disputes those as well. Science has a lot to learn.
 
again6 said:
Science can tell me whatever it likes, regarding chemicals in the brain that churn out fantasies during its dying moments, but I choose instead to accept the simple testimony of ordinary people who have throughout many thousands of years, recounted the same story. In any event, I've seen a ghost. Science disputes those as well. Science has a lot to learn.
I don't think I've seen a ghost, but I believe in them, and in deathbed apparitions, precisely because there is so much personal testimony about them, springing up afresh in every generation.

Maybe they're not quite what they seem, however - we'll each know for sure when our own time comes, if we're still in a knowing state.
 
rynner wrote:

Maybe they're not quite what they seem, however

Nnnnnnnnnnnnn ... fluttery nerves, cold feet, feeling vulnerable about the shoulders now ......

This is it, isn't it? How do we knowwwwww ?

We don't. Just have to trust.

My father, elderly and obviously a bit depressed, sounded apprehensive regarding death; was still trying to jog (half blind, half crippled) in an attempt to stave it off. So I gave it positive spin and assured him it would be fine, great in fact -- just a quick zoom and there he'd be, surrounded by all his old mates and parents and brothers, etc. Fantastic !

' So feel good, feel confident when it happens (death) because it may be that the frame of mind determines the outcome', I concluded.

' Oh yeah? Are you sure about all this? Because I'm not.' he said, flat as a tack.

Pop.

But I couldn't stop there, could I, or it might make him lose hope altogether. So off I went again, recounting all the stories of bedside vigils and NDEs that had included welcoming committees.

' There are a few people I don't want to see.' he replied

' Well then, you won't have to. Your mind will connect with the ones you want and they'll be there. The others will be with someone else.'

' Sounds like a bloody mess to me'.

' No, no, it works itself out.' (sunny voice)

' So you say. I have doubts about this, by the way.' He was still no more cheerful than before.

The only way to look at it really is to remember that millions have gone before us. Most of them were no more spiritually evolved or knowledgable or nicer or well-connected spiritually than we are. That's how I get through everything -- just look around and see that other people are managing to do whatever it is, so the odds are that I'll manage too. Why would death be any different? The afterlife might turn out to be not a piece of cake, but even so, we're survivors; that's what we do.

On the other hand, it might turn out to be all we hope for.

And possibly, religions were devised to provide belief which in turn acts as a propellant to thrust us through the lower astral or whatever realms and into lighter, sweeter dimensions?

Or maybe, we simply rise to the surface regardless of what we do or don't believe?

There are nasties in this life we're leading now, but we don't all encounter all of them all of the time.

'Keep your face to the sun and let the shadows fall behind you'. It was actually my father who used to advise that, but he might have forgotten it.

We just have to keep smiling as much as possible and hope it's really contagious when it counts, lol. (I don't know what else to advise)
 
again6 said:
I suspect the 'pure evil' perceived as being the old woman's face may in fact have been the tortured face of an old woman who was being tormented and terrified by something akin to evil.

Yes, that's my suspicion, too. And God help her.
 
Reading through the forums at work, I stumbled on this thread, which reminded me of something that happened about a month ago.

I live across the road from three retirement homes, in sequence, and they are sprawling enough that they take up about 1/6 of the suburb, total. I've lived in the same house for about 19 years or so, so I'm quite used to seeing elderly people meandering around in various states of mental lucidity, and they're all rather lovely (except for the guy who looks like Gandalf on a mobility scooter, because he's rather rude and drives it on the road). As a whole, the places are well-organised and clean.

The center in question for this story has three gates. The first is a road, for the "assisted living" drivers. The second is the entry to a dropoff loop for the returning elderly and connected to a carpark for visitors. The third is a black metal thing with bars, pretty much standard swimming pool fencing.

One evening, as I was walking home from the local Scout hall (this was Australia in the summer, so essentially full daylight still), I was rather surprised to hear myself being called. The person who had spoken was standing behind the third gate and, in fact, essentially pressed right up against it. She was a little old lady. I don't remember exactly what she said, but it was something along the lines of "Excuse me, can you please help?". Being a good little Rover Scout and all, I went over to see what I could do. The gate was an ordinary pool gate, complete with child-safe lock. I figured that it was perfectly normal for this woman to want out (although I'm sure that they have a curfew and some method of signing in and out, there are wandering elderly up and down the street throughout the day and into the evening on a regular basis) and also perfectly normal to have trouble with one of those gates. The latches get sticky so easily, and I've had functional ones that I can't open readily.

When I went over, though, she seemed a little odd. Her hair was salt-and-pepper (and not as though her dye had been washing or growing out, either), and her eyes were that queer shade of brown which is almost yellow. She looked at me intently, then said "Help me" again. I tugged on the latch with relative vigor, but it wouldn't move. It was a little bit rusty, so I thought that that might have been an issue. I smiled down at her, as reassuringly as I could, and told her I was still having trouble with the latch. She gripped the bars of the gate more tightly and stared. I noticed that she had rather long, sharp fingernails. I tried to pull on the latch a little more, but it wouldn't move. Looking at her again, she had pulled herself even closer to the gate. Her eyes had narrowed and she seemed angry and hungry. Although she was small, fragile and not particularly hairy, there was something about her that spoke to me vividly of werewolves. I'm not much given to that kind of fantasy, but this was incredibly potent and quite terrifying. I was suddenly very glad of the thick metal of the gate and that she was such a small woman. With the most polite smile I could muster, I apologised for not being able to open the gate, said that it was getting late, that I was wanted at home, and that I hoped that she had a lovely evening. I am afraid that fear made me rush my delivery slightly.

I looked back a minute later, and she was still gripping the gate and staring at me.

Now, this was probably a locked gate, a confused old lady and an overactive imagination, but I figured it was fitting for this thread.
 
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