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Opus Dei

Alexius4

Gone But Not Forgotten
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Oct 18, 2003
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Yeah, ok, so I'm reading 'The Da Vinci Code'...

But are Opus Dei such a big threat to all that is decent? Creepy, yes; but are they actually up to anything we ought to be worried about?

Do we have any board members who have been involved?

For a bit of orientation:

ODAN

which seems a balanced assessment, and includes photos of the 'cilice' and 'discipline'...
 
The O D people...
Quite active in australia. Some of them are ordinary everyday people. Some of the 'charity things they're into are a little questionable...
:(
But there are worse cults, I guess.
:)
 
There have been rumours of Opus Dei involvement in the death of Roberto Calvi, the Vatican banker found hanging under Blackfriars bridge in the eighties. But I guess that sort of speculation is par for the course.
 
This is the thing - there is much rumour and innuendo, but seemingly not all that much substance.

Could it be that as Opus Dei fit the profile of a shadowy conspiracy, rumours are naturally adhering to the name? Much the same applies to the Masons, I guess.
 
Well the problem is that OD are not just a creepy little cult of geeks believing they are going to Heaven on a multicoloured spaceship currently secreted behind the planet Teletubby. OD is an officially approved and sanctioned 'prelature' of the Catholic church. It operates by influencing the political, economic and educational elites in Catholic countries in support of hard right policies. It has immense influence in Universities in Spain, Ireland and Latin America in particular. Opus now has almost complete ideological control within the Vatican, ousting or silencing any relatively liberal voices on matters of theology, church administration and policy. The University I attended, University College Dublin, is a state funded institution but Opus Dei had massive influence within the Philosophy and Engineering departments in particular, also History. I now work in a differen university, which is new and very secular, in outward appearance anyway. I was somewhat shocked last year when two normal looking lads in their 20s, who were sitting behind me on the bus, began talking among themselves in an approving manner about the activities of 'the Work' in the college.

Below is an article that was in an Irish paper recently about the economic clout of OD in Ireland. There is a good book on OD I read a few years back, I will check the name and details and post them here.

+++++++++++

Irish Independent - 25th June 2004

Opus Dei firms hold property empire worth millions of euro

A RAFT of companies linked to low-profile Catholic organisation Opus Dei
are sitting on a property empire worth tens of millions of euro.

Decoding how much these companies' vast property portfolios are worth is
difficult. Spokesperson for Opus Dei, Paul Harman, admitted the prime properties
were worth a good deal more today than when the group bought most of them
in the 1950s and 1960s. However, he said he could not put on a value on
them. Mr Harman also stressed none of the properties were owned directly
by Opus Dei. They were, he said, controlled by the companies' directors,
many of which, but not all, were members of the organisation.

The Opus Dei-linked companies have dozens of directors including accountants,
doctors, lawyers, engineers, farmers, teachers, retired civil servants and
priests. These well-heeled directors, most of whom are not well known, typically
live in the most affluent areas of Dublin. Better-known names include: Kildare
Stud manager Stan Cosgrove, who part-owned Shergar; property developer Brian
McCormick; horse breeder Elaine Banahan and controversial UCD lecturer Geraldine
O'Connor.

Ms O'Connor voluntarily agreed to stop teaching earlier this year at UCD
while it conducted an inquiry into claims she told students they had to
attend an Opus Dei event in order to pass their exams. UCD refused yesterday
to comment on the current status of the 11-week-old inquiry.

Lismore Educational Foundation Ltd controls the revamped Lismullin Conference
Centre in Navan, Co Meath. The centre is worth a cool e10m according to
its accounts. It runs events that it says are "inspired by the spirit of
the Opus Dei Prelature". By the end of 2002 it had accumulated funds of
e2.8m. Lismullin was also fortunate enough to get interest free loans of
e3.9m out of total borrowings of e7.5m.

Another Opus Dei-related company controls 11 properties in prime locations
in Dublin and Galway. University Hostels Ltd owns a network of gender-divided
residances for students, priests and lay members of Opus Dei. The company's
Dublin properties are Nullamore in Dartry, 9&10 Hume Street in Dublin city
centre, Harvieston in Dalkey, Riversdale in Monkstown, Knapton House in
Dun Laoghaire, land and properties in Clontarf, No 88 Foster Avenue and
the most recent addition Clerann, which is in Mount Merrion.

In Galway it owns Gort Ard university residence and Ros Geal university
residence.

Despite this huge property portfolio, the company has fixed assets of just
e2.1m. According to Opus Dei accountant Stephen Dorly, this is because
"the accounts show only what they would have cost". He said he expected
their current value would be "fairly high, I suppose".

Aileach Centres Ltd is the company behind the Glenard University residence
near UCD. Its properties are worth e6m. By early 2003 it had built up a
surplus of e4.8m. Opus Dei-related companies also control a youth centre
in Artane and hall of residence in Limerick.

Around the world, Opus Dei has hundreds of millions of euro worth of properties.

One of its most recent additions was a $47m tower in New York.
 
Thanks for that, Scarlett - an excellant post.

How do you feel Opus Dei are working? How does there influence extend? Through members happening to make it into powerful positions, or by Opus Dei actively scalp-hunting the influential?

Are Opus Dei really that influential in the Vatican itself? I know the Jesuits opposed the canonisation of the group's founder, and are ambivalent about their rise to eminance: to what extent is that ambivalence shared in the Church?

Similar groups exist in Turkey; having adopted a breed of sufism, they seek to gain influence through investments and office, though their goals seem ill defined; it seems they are out for power for pwoer's sake. Most sufi reject them as a perverse misapplication of our teachings.

I know we have a number of members with a Catholic background - what are your thoughts on Opus Dei?
 
I have had absolutely no dealings or contact with Opus Dei ever, despite being a Catholic from a family of fine upstanding Catholics (which isn't sarcasm - it's actually true). My knowledge of Opus Dei is therefore no greater than anyone else's around here, probably.

I'm not convinced Opus Dei have as great an influence as suggested, however. Perhaps in smaller areas, depending on the people they deal with. Certainly, there are always people who are influenced by names. So some people in authority will always be impressed when Opus Dei turns up. As for actual power, I would say they have rather little. They have money, and that's probably about it.

Let's face it - if Opus Dei were half as influential as they are supposed to be, Vatican II would never have happened, and the Tridentine mass would be the only one available around the world. (personally, I don't think that would be a bad thing, but then I never had a problem with Latin)

Opus Dei are rather extreme, what with the self mortification thing. However, that is only with permission, as the organisation does recognise that self-flagellation is not a penance if you enjoy it; or if you achieve a sense of pride in subjecting yourself to it. The cilice, as far as I know, is considered incredibly excessive, and I'm not even sure its use is sanctioned anymore.

All in all, I'd agree there are worse cults around. There are ones that provide more laughs as well. Opus Dei is rather dour.
 
Opus bought into the Vatican at the end of the 70s. They basically handed over a huge amount of cash in return for three things: Opus men to go into top positions in the Vatican, the severing of church support for the Jesuits (whose idea of educating the natives was not looked upon kindly) and the canonisation of founder Escriva de Balaguer. Escriva was beatified 17 years after his death (in 1975) and became a fully fledged saint in 2002 breaking the church norms for this kind of thing. His miracle (necessary for sainthood) was the curing of a nun, this was officially recognised in 2001 although none of the other nuns in the convent remember the incident and the nun in question died soon after the 'cure'.
In Spain, opus' influence has waned since the death of Franco, who was a staunch Catholic. Nevertheless, many highly influential people in the country today are asscociated with Opus. Some members of the recently ousted conservative government were Opus 'numerados'. These means that they were full members of the organisation and as such handed over their entire wages to them, who would, in turn, dole it out to them as they saw fit. Many other people were, and are, affiliated with the group.
As mentioned by Scarlett, some of the universities in Spain are owned by Opus, such as the University of Law in Pamplona, which is generally regarded as the best in this field. People I know who have attended this university have told me that there was always encouragement to attend meetings etc. I have also been told of major changes in people's characters after being pulled into Opus circles. Usually in the direction of 'morally upstanding' in a srticly catholic sense of course.
Other entities owned by Opus include the bank Banco Popular where workers tell me that the management keep a close eye on their private lives. uncatholic behaviour such as 'living in sin', children out of wedlock etc are strictly frowned upon, to the extent of making promotion impossible.
The influence of Opus is impossible to guage. There was a famous case of a well known architect who publicly left Opus only to see some of his most famous buildings torn down on some quite cloudy pretexts. The generally conservative/rightwing leanings of Spain over the last eight years could be indicative of Opus' influence (both within the government and in other areas) or could just be coincidence given a similar tendency in the rest of Europe.
Whatever the case, Opus still have influence in Spain, thankfully not as much as before now that they don't have a dictator to back them up.
 
How much influence do Opus Dei have in other traditionally staunch Catholic nations (such as France, Latin America, Ireland, Poland)?
 
I've been following the Austrian seminary school scandal in the news recently.

Photographic evidence of sexual activity between novices and monks were published in a magazine and child porn was found to have been downloaded by a novice. The Bishop in charge of the seminary seemingly dismissed all reports to begin with as pranks and denied any of the rumours which were later found to be true.

I found the latest report in the case interesting as the Pope has appointed this man to take over at the seminary (no doubt in order to put things right):

[...] Klaus Kueng, a trusted Austrian bishop, was given the job of carrying out a private investigation on behalf of the Pope.

A member of the powerful Catholic movement Opus Dei, he has now replaced Bishop Krenn, held responsible for allowing the scandal to occur.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3723638.stm
 
Earlier this year, there was a rumour that Opus Dei was attempting to infiltrate a Sydney branch of the Young Liberals. One Liberal state parliamentarian, David Clarke MLC, described himself publicly as a Co-operator of Opus Dei. Nothing much seemed to follow.

Further stories arose about Opus Dei's unsuccessful attempts to infiltrate other political parties and the Howard government. My impression is that Opus Dei's ambitions, at least in Australia, are grandiose compared to their real power. (I don't think this is an accident; the principal of the Catholic college I attended ended up climbing Opus Dei's organisational ladder, and he had strong narcissistic tendencies.) I believe they are feared, as a manifestation of the general drift to the Right, more than they are fearsome.
 
Alexius said:
How much influence do Opus Dei have in other traditionally staunch Catholic nations (such as France, Latin America, Ireland, Poland)?

Not aware of their existance here (Ireland) but then I'm no longer a religious person, so these things tend to by pass me without me noticing ...
 
My family were full on Catholics all their lives. Dad, Grandad, and both Uncles members of the Knights of Saint Columba; Mom and Grandmother in the Legion of Mary (not for long though; they were a bit too outspoken!); Mother was housekeeper for the priest (and let me tell you, nothing puts you off the priesthood much quicker).

Of course, once they were retired, and disabled, and no longer able to organise the fetes and the garden parties and the harvest suppers and the collections etc etc etc, they sort of became pariahs. When Dad was rushed into hospital last year, he was adamant he didn't want the priest; he said if they didn't want him when he's alive, they ain't having him when he's dead. :blah:

Still, I never came across any members of Opus Dei. Mom and Dad mixed with Cardinals, Archbishops, Bishops, and Deacons (oh yes; and a couple of Monsigneurs); and no big deal was ever made about Opus Dei. They normally get a sneer and a sarcastic 'hmph' out of Mum when they're mentioned. I think that about sums 'em up :D

I'll have to ask her whether she ever had closer dealings with them.
 
Opus Dei in Ireland have full control of the Irish government, the National Radio & Television station RTE. Some of their members are involved with the Nazi movement and other Far right groups within the European Union EU. There are over 20,000 members in the Republic of Ireland.
They even supported the IRA against the British in Northern Ireland.
 
alpha0,
Exactly how do you figure that? I'd like to see some sources as opposed to speculation.

TBH, Opus Dei has a foothold in Ireland but I think they are more closely associated with the likes Catholic Colleges than Leinster House. Where, for example, was OD when Mr Haughey was cashing in the country to kit out his private home? Of whey was the Anglo Irish Agreement allowed to happen if they were with the IRA and controlled the government?

As per usual these people who keep themselves to themselves are often finger-pointed into guilty conspiracies. I would hazard a guess at them being no more conspiratorial than say McDonald’s, who openly admit that their burger flogging huts are worth far less than the real estate frontage on which they suit, and which constitute the real wealth of the company.

Finally, were OD to have been in such strange like grip of the government of Ireland how was Rosemary Scallon (Dana) not allowed to even get a presidential nomination (she representing the ultra right wing Catholics)?

Pony up some proof or at least some references, or a troll hunt may have to be instituted.

LD
 
alpha0 said:
They even supported the IRA against the British in Northern Ireland.
They, or people who also just happened to be members? The reason that I ask is that OD are also quite active in England, with an English membership, so it seems unlikely that OD, as a group, would be up to this. (IIRC one of the halls of residence at the University of Manchester, Greygarth, was run by them. We always reckoned that they were a bit on the odd side, but never thought of them as supporters of the IRA.)

Are you sure you haven't been reading the thoughts of Iain Paisley? ;)
 
Re: Re: Opus Dei

Fortis said:
.

... (IIRC one of the halls of residence at the University of Manchester, Greygarth, was run by them. We always reckoned that they were a bit on the odd side, but never thought of them as supporters of the IRA.)...

I was at Manchester too (1973-76) and heard about the place from a couple of people who'd lived there. We thought they were a bit fanatical about rules and sin and guilt, usual Catholic stuff but at fever pitch, and generally strange...

I'd been trying to remember the name of the place since this thread popped up
 
Well, I asked my mom. And her only recollections of Opus Dei are their break with the Pope over Vatican II, and that was an extreme right wing 'branch' of Opus Dei in Holland (she thinks). This was the 60s and 70s.

She agrees that Opus Dei's power has waned considerably. According to Catholic press, the current Pope has done much to bring them down a peg or two.

She says that, generally, no-one ever really took them seriously. Which sort of fits in with the way most Catholics react when you mention Opus Dei (i.e. 'Wuh???' :D)
 
Re: Re: Re: Opus Dei

Timble said:
I was at Manchester too (1973-76) and heard about the place from a couple of people who'd lived there. We thought they were a bit fanatical about rules and sin and guilt, usual Catholic stuff but at fever pitch, and generally strange...

I'd been trying to remember the name of the place since this thread popped up
I was at Manchester mid-late 80's. At that time Greygarth seemed like an almost mythical place where they had sing-alongs around the piano, and no women were allowed. If one of your male fellow students was a bit odd, people would start wondering if he was from Greygarth. (If drunk and lying in a gutter, then he was probably at Woolton Hall. ;) )

http://www.greygarth.org.uk/
 
Catholic 'secret society' gains power foothold

Greets

(you may wish to cross-reference the da vinci code thread)

Catholic 'secret society' gains power foothold

Opus Dei plays down fears over link to Education Secretary

Jamie Doward
Sunday December 26, 2004
The Observer

A couple of years ago not many people in Britain had heard of Opus Dei. Its cloistered anonymity was such that even many committed Christians were unaware the ultra-conservative Roman Catholic movement existed.

And then came The Da Vinci Code. The frantic plot of Dan Brown's blockbuster novel centres on a ruthless Opus Dei member who commits murder to protect the secrets of the Holy Grail. The book served to reinforce enduring conspiracy theories that the movement is a shadowy, powerful elite with tentacles stretching up to the highest echelons of society.

And then came the cabinet minister, Ruth Kelly. The new Education Secretary has close links with the society, leading to a wave of headlines heavy with the whiff of conspiracy, a woman with 'secret links' she has so far refused to talk about.

In the first public comments from the organisation since Kelly's appointment earlier this month, Andrew Soane, Opus Dei's communications officer, says she is not a full member.

'She is "in touch". She has attended meetings,' Soane confirmed. Secular groups have reacted with alarm to the news, arguing that someone with such conservative Catholic views on the family, abortion and contraception should not be in charge of education policy.

Organisations such as the National Secular Society worry that Opus Dei members are taught that their work must encapsulate their faith at all times. Soane says such fears are overplayed, although he admits that members are encouraged not to separate their faith from their careers.

'One message of Opus Dei is that your faith is relevant to everything you do,' he said. 'You don't change persona when you go into the office. Everything is done in the sight of God and has to be arrived at following one's conscience. It's useful for people to try to find meaning in their work by relating it to their faith, not setting it aside from their faith.'

Conspiracy theories about Opus Dei - Latin for 'work of God' - are as old as the movement itself. Founded in 1928 by a Spanish priest, Josémaría Escrivá de Balaguer, Opus Dei's influence was confirmed almost immediately when it emerged that several leading members of General Franco's government were devout followers.

Since then Opus Dei's sepulchral reputation as a quasi-masonic club for the intellectual elite has endured to the extent that many Catholics are suspicious of its activities even today. 'It has the aura of a secret society. They make no bones about the fact that part of their work is to influence those people who are going to influence society,' said Father Shaun Middleton, parish priest at the church of St Francis of Assisi in London's Notting Hill.

Conspiracy theorists in the US went into overdrive three years ago when they discovered that Robert Hanssen, the FBI agent who sold secrets to the Russians, had links with the movement. Former FBI director Louis Freeh is also reputed to be a member, and there is speculation that several justices in the US Supreme Court are followers.

The movement's website carries glowing tributes from successful people who say that their careers have benefited from their involvement with Opus Dei.

But there is a reverse side to such fervour. In the US a support group, Opus Dei Awareness Network (ODAN), has been established to help former members to sever their links with the movement. The ODAN website carries warnings from former followers who talk about Opus Dei's desire to control individuals and the psychological mechanisms it employs to stop them leaving.

'We've never been conscious of them here,' Soane says of ODAN. 'People do leave Opus Dei and most of them remain friendly and stay in touch. But a few go sour. I've been on the ODAN website and it's helped raise my antenna and point out things that could be addressed.'

Adding to the movement's image as a quasi-masonic elite is the fact that some celibate members, or 'numeraries', practise 'self-mortification', in which they whip themselves or wind a wire chain - a 'cilice' - into their legs, to remind themselves of the sufferings of Christ.

Soane plays down the importance of the practice. 'It's a very minor thing. It's not something that looms large in the life of a member of Opus Dei. It's optional. You could compare it with training for a rowing race or a marathon, or some of the more rigorous slimming regimes. It sounds dramatic, but it isn't.'

Such practices may seem medieval, but Opus Dei is, at least in one respect, ultra-modern. Escrivá's great insight was to realise that the Catholic church's followers should become evangelists for their faith. It might not sound radical to outsiders, but the suggestion effectively took power away from the Catholic church's hierarchy and placed it in the hands of lay followers.

Today supporters like Kelly are encouraged to continue this tradition, proselytising about their faith to between 10 and 15 people selected from their circle of friends, family and colleagues. The idea was revolutionary at the time but has now become standard Vatican policy. In fact, the Pope was so taken with Escrivá's work he canonised him in 2002, 17 years after his death. The movement itself was made a 'personal prelature' - effectively a diocese without borders which operates outside the control of the Catholic hierarchy. It was this, more than anything else, that made even mainstream Catholics wary of the movement's powers.

One thing, however, unites the movement's supporters and critics alike: the view that Opus Dei's followers are deeply devout. This stems from Escrivá's beliefs that everything has a spiritual dimension. 'There's nothing that's indifferent. You try to decide things in the presence of God and follow your conscience,' Soane says. 'It's a very private thing.'

Some, though, fear such an entrenched view sits uncomfortably in the modern world. 'They have a religious certainty about them. They see things in black and white, when most people see the world in shades of grey,' Middleton said.

Despite its radical idea to reach out to lay followers, Opus Dei doesn't appear to want to reach too far. The movement has only 84,000 members worldwide. In the UK it boasts a meagre 500 members and a similar number of supporters. It has two colleges in London, four in Manchester and three in Glasgow.

But despite its small following, Opus Dei is extremely well funded. The movement's New York headquarters is a $50 million office block in Manhattan. A network of wealthy supporters, known as co-operators, dig deeply into their own pockets to bankroll it. Critics say its wealth gives Opus Dei a disproportionate influence, while conspiracy theorists go as far as to suggest that the movement's overflowing coffers have allowed it to finance the Vatican.

'It works like a good spy network. They court people over the years. It's a slow process,' Middleton said.

The problem facing the movement now, however, is that it might become too popular. Following the publication of The Da Vinci Code , scores of Americans have visited the Opus Dei HQ in New York and some have even made the pilgrimage to Netherhall, its college in Hampstead.

It is not the first time a recent artwork has caused a rush of interest in Catholicism. The Passion of the Christ , Mel Gibson's film about the last 12 hours of Jesus's life, became a surprise blockbuster; The Spiral Staircase by Karen Armstrong, a memoir by a former nun who went to a convent at 17 and eventually lost her religion, gave people outside such communities an insight into the lives of religious orders.

Soane admits it is an issue that Opus Dei has been forced to confront. 'It's probably done us some harm, but in some ways it has done us some good. It's certainly raised levels of interest in Opus Dei. It's never as bad as you think. I knew we'd made it when someone removed the sign at the end of our road.'

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1379801,00.html

mal
 
Perhaps I am undereading the situation but it seems to me that most catholics of the 'old school' have no need or time for Opus Dei.

It seems to me that the general bulk of Opus members are converts or younger zealous catholics.
 
rjm said:
Perhaps I am undereading the situation but it seems to me that most catholics of the 'old school' have no need or time for Opus Dei.

It seems to me that the general bulk of Opus members are converts or younger zealous catholics.
Most Catholics (in my experience) regard them as being a bit odd and definitely at the fringe of Catholicism. (Not "scary" odd, but more "weird" odd.)
 
I think that possibly Opus Dei may well be a bit weird, they might be fringe but they cannot possibly be dangerous. They are not Christian Terrorists. They do not have the massive power of previous Christian institutions such as the major Churches or even orders such as the Templars.

I think that if it weren't for the mass media bandwagon and Dan ****ing Brown and this climate of paranoia that has descened we probably wouldn't notice them.
 
Concerns about OD have been going on for longer than the latest conspiracy thriller... and anyway, before them the big catholic bogeyman was the Jesuits (of whom we rarely hear these days, at least in conspiracy circles).
 
chanubi said:
Concerns about OD have been going on for longer than the latest conspiracy thriller... and anyway, before them the big catholic bogeyman was the Jesuits (of whom we rarely hear these days, at least in conspiracy circles).
O.K. New conspiracy theory. OD was created by the Jesuits as a front to distract attention from their nefarious activities. ;)
 
Opus Dei are not a cult at all they are a catholic orginisation that the majority of are normal people. The cult of opus dei never actually exsisted it was just presscoverage.
 
Slaneesh said:
Opus Dei are not a cult at all they are a catholic orginisation that the majority of are normal people. The cult of opus dei never actually exsisted it was just presscoverage.
Define cult, though - in the broadest sense, a cult is any system of worship, regardless of size, viz:
cult

Pronunciation: 'k&lt
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate -- more at WHEEL
1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion.

(Source)
.

And according to an awful lot of people, including the sect itself, its parent body the Catholic Church, former and present members of the sect, and posters on this very thread it does exist, press coverage aside.
 
It's one of those irregular verbs:

I follow a religion;
You belong to a sect;
He belongs to a cult.

I am devout,
You are religious,
He is a nutter.

However, OD certainly does a pretty good impression of being sinister.
 
Considering OD was 'born' during the early years of Franco's facist government, all this recent kerfluffle about them is a clear panic-link to the DaVinci Cobblers. Take several real, little heard-of factors and toss them into a fiction ... and everybody thinks the fiction is real!

The OD were the 'acceptable' face of the Catholic church to Franco and were happy to take major control of church organisation (and funds) in return for grassing up any anti-Franco faction. Since the demise of Franco, the high-ups realised they liked the power and the kick they got from belonging to a 'secret and special' club so they decided to operate along the alleged lines of the modern Freemasons, i.e. infiltrating the wealthy, powerful and political animals.

However, just because the majority of RC either ignore or scoff at the OD movement it doesn't mean that the few 'high ups' don't want to gather popwer for their secret society. These are the human qualities - greed, powerlust, a need to belong and a feeling of exclusivity. It may not be the new Illuminati, New World Order or other 'power behind the throne' but they still merit cautious observation.
 
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