• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Pig Meat! Pig Meat! A Defence Against Suicide Bombers

A

Anonymous

Guest
Sounds like the Israelis have been advised by Jon Erik Beckjord:

Israeli police are to hang bags of pig lard on buses and in other public places to deter would-be Muslim suicide bombers, Israeli media have reported.
The Maariv daily said rabbinical authorities sanctioned the plan to use the product - considered impure by Jews and Muslims - if it might save lives.

According to Islamic tradition, Muslims who touch a pig before dying will be denied entry to Heaven.

Hundreds of Israelis have been killed by suicide bombers in recent years.

Rabbinical approval

Muslim militants believe they will be rewarded with 70 virgins in paradise by carrying out suicide bombings against those they regard as enemies of Islam.

Officials hope the prospect that bombers will defile their bodies by blowing up the bags of pig lard as well as themselves might discourage would-be recruits.

Rabbi Eliezer Moshe Fisher, of the Jerusalem Rabbinical Court, said there was no "halachic [Jewish law] ban on using bags of lard in buses and other places" when saving lives is concerned, the newspaper reported.

He said the bags would also be permitted to be placed in shopping centres, train stations, schools and other public places which might be targeted by bombers.

The rabbi said if police do not enact the plan, tens of thousands of Orthodox Jews will arm themselves with guns which can spray liquid pig lard at suspects.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3484277.stm
 
Becker's ideas on the topic made my sides ache... :)

Actually, it is plop-plop. According to some liturgical schools, touching an unclean animal or substance may require a renewal of ablution, but is in no way sinful - hence no bar to entry to Paradise. Furthermore, though constant ablution is recommended by all schools, it is not considered compulsory for anything other than ritual observance.

So not much of a deterrent then.

Interesting how this kind of myth crops up again and again. The story of the cartridges greased with pig & cow fat at the Dum Dum arsenal follows the same line, and indeed during the Indian Mutiny, Muslim prisoners were regularly smeared with pork grease prior to execution.

Could be one for Snopes ;)
 
For reference, the title of this thread refers to J-E Beckjord's email about airline security post-9/11:

If you plan to fly, ask the airline "DO YOU HAVE LOCKED STEEL
DOORS FOR THE PILOT CABIN?"

If they say no, DO NOT FLY WITH THEM, pick another airline that
does.

If hijackers know this is in effect, they will NOT BOTHER TO
TRY.


Also: once on, search your seat and under it, and in cabinets, and next to your seat, for hidden box cutters and knives planted by clean-up crew assisting hijackers.

Also: in air, to disable hijackers, as a LAST resort, open
emergency door or emergency window a crack, if you can, try to
be tied in with seat belt or other straps, and DECOMPRESS THE
PLANE. Pilot will have to dive plane to get to lower altitude.
In some cases, this may crash the plane, but this is better than
dying by smashing into the Empire State Building and killing
thousands.

Also: the Beckjord Blanket Blocking technique can enable you to
fend off a knife with folded blanket while you and others hit
hijackers with anything you can - fists, laptop, trays,bottles,
your pulled-out belt with heavy buckle at end, even shaken
champagne (in first class),etc.

Also: Use pillows in same manner, or loose food trays,
books,etc.

Also: Self defense must start at FIRST HINT of a hijacker. Do
NOT delay, and do NOT vote, just act, and urge all to help you.

Also: Carry on an umbrella or a cane, and use this to TRIP any
hijacker or hit them. Even a ten year old child can trip
someone. Once fallen down, passengers must disable or even kill
the hijacker - it is your life at stake. No more Mr. Nice Guy...
No more victims. You must be AGGRO and never passive.

Also: Muslims abhor pig meat. Do not laugh, but if you bring on canned Spam, which is pig meat, you can open it and throw bits at them, to force them back. You must chant: "Pig meat!" over and over. Some, not all, will recoil and back off.

Also: before hijackers can act, we must INFILTRATE AND DIVERT
THEM. One way is to consider their flaws. Some hijackers were
promised 72 virgins in heaven by Allah if they killed Americans.
Some of them were found to be in strip clubs in cities in the
USA prior to the attacks. Some also got drunk the night before,
despite Muslim law. Now let us consider that single young
Islamic men are sexually deprived. Prostitution is rare in
Islamic countries. The only way to get sex is to marry. Sexual
frustration is high.

To SUBVERT members of the bin Laden org, we must drop false
morality and use SEX to subvert these men where we can.

This is not a joke. There is no "ho,ho.ho".. but to do this, we
need to offer what spies have always offered in all wars and
pre-wars -- --- Free Sex. Instead of 72 virgins (maybe) if you
die, we should offer 72 free nights with patriotic call girls or
72 free nights at the Mustang Ranch in Nevada. (Now stop the
sniggering...intelligence services have always offered enticing
women to get secret info.) At one time, the US Gov't owned the
Mustang Ranch due to back taxes, and the US Gov't operated the
Ranch. This might happen again... or a fee can be paid to the
owners and/or the women in any state.

This is dead serious. Not a joke. We need to offer sex and money
to any bin Laden org. member to DEFECT and reveal their plans
and locations.

If bombs do not do it, if bullets do not do it, SEX AND CASH
WILL.

If you are offended by this reality, we regret it, but this is
WAR!!!!


ERIK BECKJORD
Click to expand...

I'm sure he also mentioned as an idea that cockpit doors be fitted with a guillotine device in case a would-be hijacker got his head through :laughing:
 
Remember how he reported me to MI5 and advised others to do the same?

:rofl:
 
This have been tried before and it didn't work that time either....


I don't know there I heard this, so I can't prove it in any way and am a bit doubtful of it myself, but at least it makes a good story.

Apparently, in the first India/Pakistan conflict, both sides tried to spread rumours to discourage the enemy. In those days, bullets were packed in little paperboxes glued shut, and the usual way to open them was to rip it open with your teeth. In the box was also some fat to keep the bullets in good condition.

...so the Indian (hindu) side spread the rumour that the fat came fom pigs, and the Pakistan (muslim) side countered with saying that the fat came from cows... so if you opened the package with your teeth, you of course got the fat in your mouth - instant defilement!

But of course, it didn't stop people shooting each other. Either they didn't belive the rumours, or they all brought scissors....
 
Defilement in they eyes of God over a little pig/cow fat, NOT because of the senseless violence and hatred. Wow.
 
Question about the 72 virgins. Do they just get to have each once, because 72 spread out over eternity just not much sex.

Besides if there so repressed ya think they would want to have a go with a lady who knows how to entertain. Just a thought.LOL
 
I find the story odd, because pig meat would have the same suposed effect on orthodox jews.Considering the amount of sway the othodox form of judaeisam dose hold in the modern state of Israil, one would expect there to be uproar about useing the beckjord techneque on busses there.

Not to mention the smell, Israil is a warm country, busses are fairly enclosed spaces, anyone who has tryed to cook sausages in a grill pan that has not had the fat washed out of it will know what I meen :cross eye
 
Ah, I remember this well.

Say, whatever happened to old Mr. Beck--bjeck--whatever? Flew off back to Planet Mensa?
 
Solution to suicide bombers: #473: Pig lard

Pig lard to stop terror attacks

From correspondents in Jerusalem
February 12, 2004


ISRAELI police have come up with plans to place bags of pig lard on buses in a bid to deter Palestinian militants from carrying out suicide attacks, the Maariv daily reported.

Rabbinical authorities have given the idea its approval on the grounds that it could be a life-saving measure even though pigs are also considered impure by Jews.

Authorities believe that the move could discourage Palestinians from carrying out attacks as pieces of their exploded body could come into contact with the pig fat, prejudicing their chances of entering into paradise.

The paper said that the rabbinical dispensation could mean that security forces also hang bags of lard in shopping malls and schools.

Public buses have been a favourite target for Palestinian suicide bombers since the start of the intifada in September 2000.
Click to expand...

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,8662232^13762,00.html
 
so thats what our erik has been up to then? :D
 
He's my best mate, that Beckjord. I always said it.

Ahead of his time.

hic. :rolleyes:

Wake me up later.
 
The whole outside lubricated bullet business dates to the Sepoy mutiny in India, not the first India/Pakistan conflict. These were black powder, greased paper cartriges, hence the need to bite off the back end. I'm pretty certain the rumour of it being any kind of animal fat on the paper was false, although sadly inflammatory.

As for the pig fat vs. Moslem Hijacker business... come on now. If they can go to strip clubs before they ram jets into buildings, surely they can duck past a bag of suet to get on a bus. The solution, to me, seems to be to pile on them and beat the living hell out of them. On, say, an A-300, you've got four people by the windows and six in the center who can quickly dogpile anyone in an aisle, if the people in the aisle seats just grab them. Forget pork fat; break their arms, then stomp on their heads. It's simplicity itself, Hell's Angels are hardly geniuses, and they manage it.
 
Magus Perde said:
Ah, I remember this well.

Say, whatever happened to old Mr. Beck--bjeck--whatever? Flew off back to Planet Mensa?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, we were all laughing so much, we didn't notice when he'd left the building. :p

...
Originally posted by Logan5

The solution, to me, seems to be to pile on them and beat the living hell out of them. On, say, an A-300, you've got four people by the windows and six in the center who can quickly dogpile anyone in an aisle, if the people in the aisle seats just grab them. Forget pork fat; break their arms, then stomp on their heads.
Click to expand...
What an unlikely World you must live in Logan5.

Don't forget, these are exploding people. Such actions as you describe, would probably result in the assailants of the human bomb being converted into a fine spray of ground beef and giblets.

Which may be one of the reasons that the Israeli soldiery seem to have been encouraged to shoot at almost anything that moves, preferably using sniper rifles and 'scopes, these days. :(
 
I'm pretty sure US airlines did this (well, a dead pig in the hold) in the early 70's to deter Muslim terrorists
 
oops, didn't notice this one - two anti-terrorism pig threads merged :)

[edit]

p.s. Snopes is undetermined! (much as I dislike them)
 
Interesting how the '72 Houri' myth springs up, too.

Sexual slander (usually accusations of promiscuity and sodomy) goes back a long way, and had its heyday during the nineteenth centur when a genre of 'Lustful Turk' pornography sprang up. Most of the stereotypes seem to be datable to that period - in particular the link between cruelty and sexuality.

Definite echoes of the Assassin myth as well....whacked out acolytes performing atrocities to enter a sexual paradise....

Poo 800 years ago - poo 150 years ago - still poo now :)
 
Logan5 said:
The whole outside lubricated bullet business dates to the Sepoy mutiny in India, not the first India/Pakistan conflict. These were black powder, greased paper cartriges, hence the need to bite off the back end. I'm pretty certain the rumour of it being any kind of animal fat on the paper was false, although sadly inflammatory.
Click to expand...


I stand corrected. Thank you. :) I also doubt it's true, basically beacuse animal fat of that kind probably isn't very good for that type of task, and the quantities of cow/pig fat that would have to be used instead of eaten.... But you got to admire their creativity.
 
I wonder if the pig fat bullet thing isn't one of the first really widespread Muslim urban legends. It's been floating around since at least 1857, and still popping up today. Do people actually do this kind of thing, or is it a UL? Is the pig in the airliner's cargo hold to deter bombers a variation? If they actually do it, I'd expect you'd need big arabic signs saying "Attention Terrorist! Dead pig on board!" otherwise how would they know?

And AndroMan, you're quite right, grabbing a suicide bomber on a bus dosen't seem very helpful. I was thinking more of a box cutter wielding hijacker on a plane, like an A-300. I suppose either of the suggested approaches from the J-E Beckjord email, whether you're throwing panties or pigfat, are worth a shot, but they just seem... silly.

As to the original post, "The rabbi said if police do not enact the plan, tens of thousands of Orthodox Jews will arm themselves with guns which can spray liquid pig lard at suspects."

I'm not sure what to make of that. It's surreal. I've seen the news pictures of Orthodox Jews going about their business with Uzi's and so on, but I have trouble picturing a society where everyone carries a super soaker full of hot pig lard.
I suspect the temptation to just let fly at whatever pissed you off at the moment would be considerable.
 
This whole thing sounds rather ULish to me.

I loved the Beckjord Email though. Tin of spam!:rofl: I'll remember that one.

"Go away you nasty bomber! I've got a tin of Spam and I'm not afraid to use it! Right thats it, I'm getting the can opener..."
 
...If he threatened me with luncheon meat, I'd run...:)

As I recall, the story of the greased cartridges runs like this: in 1856, or thereabouts, a low cast begger asked a sepoy if he could borrow his brass drinking bowl to refresh himself. the sepoy, being a high-caste hindu, refused - so the begger avenged himself by telling him a secret. The cartridges being manufactured for the new rifle and carbine were being greased with the fat of unclean animals; you may scorn my caste now, he said, but in a while you'll be joining me.

The story spread like wild fire, led to various regiments in the East India Company army refusing to drill with the new weopons, exemplary punishments, and then mutiny.

Although the cartridge issue didn't constitute the cause of the war, it did ignite it - in all probabilty the conflict would have occurred anyway.

At least one historian has suggested that (ironically enough) the story may have been true - British Army rifle cartridges were greased with a blend of fats, into which anything and everything was thrown - including swine and cattle.

I believe the legend originated there, and in the punishments inflicted upon captured mutineers - defilement with unclean substances and blowing from the cannon's mouth (the reationale being that a disintegrated body would be barred from heaven.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top