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Pigs In Scotland & Pigs In Derby

evilsprout

Gone But Not Forgotten
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Two piggy questions for people.

How true is it that Scots and some Irish people abstain from eating pork?

And is there some kind of folklore relating to pigs in Derby? I remember reading it somewhere and I'm damned if I can find it.
 
I was born in Scotland and my parents are Irish , and I've never heard of this in my puff .

Everyone I know here enjoys pork - my mum's Irish stew used to get made with pork regularly when we couldn't get hold of lamb.

Ireland is famed for its pork sausages , superquins are the best . :D
 
You sure it wasn't pigs in Grimsby? Some sort of maritime thing (Ryn'll probably know).
 
stuneville said:
You sure it wasn't pigs in Grimsby? Some sort of maritime thing (Ryn'll probably know).
Nope! Never heard of it!

Although a quick Google turns up this:
Bosun Thomas Palmer Jones was "superstitious, but didn't make a thing of it". His daughter was involved in a sailing-day ritual. After Tom left the house, young Edna threw dad's slippers at the front door to "ensure that he'd come back safely to wear them again". It was the women; however, who had most taboos placed upon them when the men 'departed for the hunt'. A string of superstitions dictated what women should not do on sailing day - disobeyed, their actions could place the men in mortal danger. A woman must not: 'wash' clothes otherwise her husband would be 'washed' overboard; 'wave' him good-bye or a 'wave' would sweep him away; call out after him once he sets foot outside the front door; go down on the fish dock to see him off; step aboard a trawler; or whistle, as this would cause a storm at sea: 'A whistling woman and a crowing hen / Bring the Devil out of his den'.

After he had gone some women never emptied any ashtrays, the ash-pan or teapot until the following day. They must in no way give the impression of wishing him away - otherwise, he may never return. One woman would not move any items of her husband's discarded clothing until 24 hours had elapsed. Once 'safely' on his way to the fish dock, a man could not look or turn back. It was also unlucky to meet a clergyman. Should the departing fisherman come across a pig, that was fatal and he must go back home and not sail that day. The pig taboo was the strongest and strangest of all in that it over-rode and contradicted the powerful 'don't turn back' rule. Most skippers got a taxi down to the dock. Some believed it bad luck to carry their own sea-bag onto the ship, so the driver placed it on board. Youngsters hung around St.Andrew's Fish Dock to carry crewmen's sea-bags. They hoped for a generous tip and few were disappointed.
http://www.mikes-place.connectfree.co.u ... swain.html
 
Oh I know about all the fisherman's stuff... I read somewhere that in Derby they hang pictures of pigs in houses for some superstitious reason. Maybe I dreamt it...

As for Scots, from what I can gather ancient Highlanders wouldn't touch pig flesh. Some reckon there were two ancient pagan tribes, one who revered the pig, one that detested it, and so both wouldn't eat them. Others think it comes from early Christians, who took the whole "unclean animals" thing as seriously as Jews and Muslims do today.

Some (need I say?) American sites still straight-facedly say that no Scots to this day will eat pork. From what I've found it looks like the pork-hating as good as died out about two hundred years ago.

But do any Scots hear know of any pork-hating clansfolk?
 
The thing is , there really never have been too many pigs in Scotland . Sheep and cows are the main farm animals , but there are pig farms in certain areas , and the clansmen would have been used to boar . Our traditional ideas about animals are kind of unusual however i.e the Gaelic word for a whale is muc mara which is translated into English as sea-pig , and I for one cannot see how this association ever came about.

As for Highlanders , it may be a possibility that there is a confusion here with the highlanders of Papua New Guinea . They have a pidgin term long-pig which is used to describe human meat (the Papuans were notorious for their cannibalistic tendencies at one time).

Or maybe not.
 
http://britam.org/foodtaboos.html

It seems quite scholarly, but is from a site trying to prove that Lost Tribes of Israel settled in Britain so obviously VERY biased in one direction.

Also elsewhere on the site they seem to treat Wales as a seperate country to the UK, so maybe not that scholarly really...
 
evilsprout said:
http://britam.org/foodtaboos.html

It seems quite scholarly, but is from a site trying to prove that Lost Tribes of Israel settled in Britain so obviously VERY biased in one direction.

Also elsewhere on the site they seem to treat Wales as a seperate country to the UK, so maybe not that scholarly really...

Interesting site , evilsprout. So I guess that means that I'm Jewish ? Now there's a surprise . :shock:
 
I guess that means I'm Jewish, too. Now I know why I liked all those Woody Allen movies from such a tender age. But if there was a tradition of Scots not eating pork, it must have died out centuries ago, I've never heard of it either.
 
gerardwilkie said:
. Our traditional ideas about animals are kind of unusual however i.e the Gaelic word for a whale is muc mara which is translated into English as sea-pig , and I for one cannot see how this association ever came about.
Perhaps just as an understanding that whales are mammals, just like pigs.
 
Someone was explaining to me that some Scots like marmalade on bacon in the morning. Was he having me on?
 
theyithian said:
Someone was explaining to me that some Scots like marmalade on bacon in the morning. Was he having me on?
No (if you think of marmalade as a chutney or relish rather than a jam it makes sense). Ever tried orange-cured bacon? Also kippers and marmalade is a good combination, often eaten in that part of the world. Actually, tehre's probably a diet book that recommends it for stunning weight loss :).
 
From Derby and no pig pictures known about.

Although me mum did have two mugs, one of a pig painting with the legend, "Pigcasso" and one witha pig at a picnic with the slogan "pignic". We once had the rozzers round (nothin' to do with me honest) and mum gave them their tea in the mugs. She was mortified when she realised, we thought it was hilarious.
 
stuneville said:
[(if you think of marmalade as a chutney or relish rather than a jam it makes sense).

Ok, yeah, that kinda works.

It's been over a year since I last ate bacon, but I can imagine it being good.

Just had to think myself around to it...
 
I can report that the eating of Sausages with marmalade on happens here in Lincolnshire.

But no I know nothing of pig Taboo's North of the border.

Mr P
 
Not relevant to the question but when I was little I was told that pigs could "see the wind" which I always think is rather poetic.
 
Not relevant to the question but when I was little I was told that pigs could "see the wind" which I always think is rather poetic.

It is, but by whom were you told?

Is this 'family folklore' or does it have any wider currency?
 
It is, but by whom were you told?

Is this 'family folklore' or does it have any wider currency?
Here are two, but relatively same, stories that I just found:

https://mythfolklore.blogspot.com/2019/10/story-of-day-how-come-pigs-can-see-wind.html
https://www.americanfolklore.net/why-sis-pig-can-see-the-wind/

I found it odd that you just asked this today, Yith and that I happened to read the thread because, I feel that I had recently heard that this was a folktale. I had never heard of it before.
 
It is, but by whom were you told?

Is this 'family folklore' or does it have any wider currency?

I think I probably heard it first from my paternal grandfather - a farmer (although he didn't farm pigs).*

Online references to this often seem to go back to Byron, also to Emerson - but both appear to be referencing older folklore.

When you think about it, it's a quite odd talent to attribute to an animal - I mean, why would an animal have to see the wind, when they can presumably already feel it? I'm going to assume that, rather than implying some sort of synesthesia, the original meaning of 'see' was 'predict' - which would add some wonder to it.

It may also be based on an idea that pigs are supposed to prefer to face the wind when out in the open. I have no idea if this is true. (I was also told that a field full of cows lying down was a decent predictor of rain, and that if all the cows or sheep in a field were standing still and facing the same direction, then a thunderstorm was coming.)

*Edit: That's a bit misleading. At one time kept a couple of pigs, but they were for personal use (not like that - for food you animals), whereas he farmed cattle and sheep. I found the pigs somewhat threatening and mysterious, as my only real experience of them was the ominous grunting from behind the solid limestone walls of the pig pens. Piglets however, he treated almost as pets - and, while small, they were sometimes given the run of the yard. For a while - when I was very small - I think I believed that eggs came from pigs; a concept which now makes me feel slightly bilious.
 
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The only pig-related superstition I can (dimly) recall from Oop North is that it's considered unlucky (in Northumberland? Lindisfarne?) to say the word "Pig", so they're referred to as "Items."

As to eating them, both my dad (Ulster) and mum (Perthshire) were enthusiastic devotees of porcine comestibles.

maximus otter
 
The only pig-related superstition I can (dimly) recall from Oop North is that it's considered unlucky (in Northumberland? Lindisfarne?) to say the word "Pig", so they're referred to as "Items."...

I wonder if that's some sort of extension of seafaring folklore. Traditionally speaking, the seafarers unease at sharing a vessel with pigs is, I think, fairly common, and fairly widespread.
 
The only pig-related superstition I can (dimly) recall from Oop North is that it's considered unlucky (in Northumberland? Lindisfarne?) to say the word "Pig", so they're referred to as "Items."

As to eating them, both my dad (Ulster) and mum (Perthshire) were enthusiastic devotees of porcine comestibles.

maximus otter
There's a similar superstition about saying the word 'rat' in The Isle of Man.
 
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