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Practicing Magic - HELP ME PLEASE!

J

jconstans

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
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5
I have been researching the various schools of magic thought and am looking for some guidance.
My beliefs for the most part are that most ceremony and ritual can be ciphered down into a core of true working that has meaning and power, much like the Catholic mass which takes an hour, but 50 minutes of it are to fill the time around the true working which is the taking of communion.
I am a solitary practitioner and am looking for sources that will cut to the meat of the practice. I am well prepared to put in the time, sweat and tears to learn, but am not interested in the pomp and circumstance that a lot of magic practice surrounds itself in for historical, ceremonial or ritualistic reasons.
I am not looking for the magic equivalent of a get rich quick scheme, I just am not interested in the robes, and rituals.
I really am not writing this to offend anyone that s the farthest from my intent, I have a great respect for those who hold ceremony and ritual in high regard, but that path is not for I.
Hopefully I have made a modicum of sense and my questions are decipherable.
Any help as far as names of Paths, books etc. would be most helpful and appreciated.
Blessings to all.
J.
 
Not offended etc etc etc but your ideas about RC Mass are.... well..... wrong? inaccurate? pick a word that won't offend you :lol:

A hypothesis can still be true even if a particular premise is false of course but if you are basing your quest on your understanding of the RC Mass then maybe it would be helpful to rethink your pitch?

Kath
 
Good luck with that one. Any ancient ascended masters would be keeping quiet. Basically, if it was that easy and that easily available then everybody would do it and have it work. It's probably true, theres a lot of invention and needless chanty-wand-waving out there.

Ceremony, robes etc is partly to do with evoking a particular mental state in the magician, it is all part of the process to prepare the mind and body for the acts of magic. Some say the spirits/demons/entities/whathaveyou are drawn by the ceremonies as well. Others, Discordians for one example might be using say...godzilla.. as in their mind the image of an entity of fiercesome destruction but through the process of ceremoncy the actual entities invoked, real or fictional, dosnt matter as long as you believe in it and the ceremony is just basically...well...psychology.

Mind you one mans core workings might be meaningless and stupid to another...my advice...try a lot of different paths, dabble with the differences, and see what works for you then delve into that.
 
You might want to check out Phil Hine's books on chaos magick. He's not much into the robes and stuff either and is more intent on pulling together the core or useable parts of various magical currents. A lot of interesting stuff in there too and all very practical and doable.
 
stonedog2: Not to bicker, but appart from going into a complete treatise on the magical elements inherent in all major religious ceremonies, I was making a quick and complete valid point. I have been a RC my whole life and unless the whole part of drawing down the holy spirit through the transmutation of the water and host for the blood and body of Jesus past you by. My point stands.

Any how: Thanks so much for the book recommends. Magics as with other subjects, the practitioners like to muddy the waters to make them seem deeper.

Namaste
 
Sorry to come of harsh, but I have done my leg work and heard too much crap to be blunt form too many people who couldn't back up squat of what the claim, unless you were prepared to poney up substantial cash etc.

I want the real work for once.

Ta.
 
*laughter*

well as one RC to another.... transubstatiation is the point.

What you said in your post was

"to fill the time around the true working which is the taking of communion. "

which is different. The Mass happens even if nobody partakes. The priest can perform a Mass without partaking for example in creating host to be reserved and taken to the sick.

Which is rather the point somehow: to make sure you really are looking at the main point rather than the adiaphoric matters surrounding them.

You must know what the people here are like - or if you don't why are you asking the question here? - and a discussion of the elements of magic within religious practice is rather part of the territory.

Kath
 
This is exactly what I was trying to avoid.
I should have known better than try to use the analogy I did, but the point stands.
I am not interested in the pomp and circumstance many surround the small core of actual magic working. I will like I said be willing to but in the blood, sweat and years to learn what I need, but I will not be wearing a robe to do it. No pffense, just different strokes...

BTW thanks for the correction re arding transubstantiation, I was typing on the run.

Ta,
J
 
I combine Ashtanga yoga with some of my workings. Basically ripped off Kellner's idea (he got more into the Hatha type if memory serves), and then used this in conjunction, for his OTO sex magic rituals etc.

I dont wear robes, or prance deosil around alters, but i do try and focus my mind (hence why the yoga helps me personally), and wouldn't try a working in the same clothes that ive just been creosoting the fence in. Not because i think the "spirits" would become angry at my impudence, just that my semi-concious triggers dont work too good if i have distractions such as i've mentioned above. Then again its a totally personal quest and i wouldnt know what youve found that works for you, maybe you do your best work in smelly sweats:)
 
Thanks

Thanks TMS,
That is very helpful information.
I thinkI might have expressed my intentions all wrong in my initial post - it was not my finest hour. I am interested in learning more about "portable" magic if that makes any sense. Chants, inscriptions, sigils etc. things taht can be carried with you and used as needed. I suppose amulets, mojo bags or hands from Hoodoo and a lot of othe folk magis would interest me too.
Any how. All help appreciated greatly.
All the best,
J
 
Sounds like the Magic System for you is Santeria or one of it's more popular off-springs: Voodoo. It has the most "kick-ass" aesthetics and it's easy.

"Urban Voodoo" by S. Jason Black & Christoper S Hyatt's book is a great place to start for the solitary practitioner. It starts with a autobiographical story of Jason Black's discovery of and results of practicing Voodoo from a complete outsiders perspective. It is unlike any other book on the subject and it contains a method of self-initiation, which ends with a word of warning: "you should also be prepared to have experiences that may prove frightening, but if you have the courage to endure these, you will find yourself greatly rewarded and your life changed for the better".

There's a great scene in the David Byrne's film "True Stories"(which has a strong Voodoo sub-plot) in which John Goodman's character goes to a Voodoo priest for help in finding love and tells the priest that the priest's magic may not work because he does not believe in Voodoo, the priest turns to him and says: "It doesn't matter if you believe in it or not, if you follow the instructions it just works."


Sounds good to me.


[/i]
 
its really not that difficult to accomplish. i havent used any significant ritual tools in any of my magic for years. all you have to do is be aware of what youre doing while youre using the tool. the tools themselves dont actually do anything except serve as a focusing point. if you can figure out how youre channeling your energy through them, its no great leap to just focus on the path you want it to take without using the tool.

to use a wiccan bit as an example: casting a circle. most people use an athame or wand or something to focus their energy and project it out and around into a kind of barrier. the energy comes from you, not the athame. you can just as easily use your hand, or just project directly from your body.

the majority of magic is focused personal energy guided by intent, or will. really, for most things, if you just focus intently on what it is you want to accomplish and put a lot of energy behind it, then let it go with the assertion that it WILL happen, will be enough, or at least as effective as any ritual.

personally, ive always found tools and rituals to be more distracting than helpful.
 
A holly half-staff is basically all I use as I find it easier to visualise energy coming out of that than through my finger.

If you genuinely have a desire and a pull to discover a working path specifically, then the universe/god/collective unconscious etc will provide the ways and means for you without you realising it at first.
 
I spent 15 years on the same quest your are undertaking now until I finally gave it all up as a lost cause. I no longer believe that such a thing as "Christian magic" exists or can exist. (But the powers displayed in and promised by THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES seem greater than those of any "magical" ritual I've ever heard of and free of all the dangers inherent in them.)

It's also worth noting that efforts along this line always seem doomed to failure. Perhaps the classic example is Sar Peladan's late 19th Century "Christian Rose-Croix" rite which was launched in Paris with great fanfare but subsequently sped nowhere really fast.

Even so, bell, book, robes, incense and candles seem to be an integral part of all of this. Exactly what a "Protestant Reformation"-style "magic" would actually be is difficult to conceive.

But it does bring up an interesting question. Exactly what would a low-church Methodist, Baptist or Quaker "magic" be?

If it existed.
 
razorblimp said:
A holly half-staff
Click to expand...


holly as in wood of the holly tree? I keep misreading as holy which I don't think is what you mean :oops:



Kath
 
stonedog2 said:
razorblimp said:
A holly half-staff
Click to expand...


holly as in wood of the holly tree? I keep misreading as holy which I don't think is what you mean :oops:



Kath
Click to expand...

Yep. The wood is lovely, white, hard and a fine grain. :)
 
OldTimeRadio said:
Even so, bell, book, robes, incense and candles seem to be an integral part of all of this.
Click to expand...

What I meant above is that "ritual magic" seems to be largely psycho-drama, and psycho-drama is "ritual" by definition.

I am by no means dismissing possible Paranormal elements. But the psycho-drama serves as the trigger for those elements. If you take away the ritual you also take away the trigger.
 
I have to agree on the psychology part. As you know it's all about invoking- or more basically- using your will and most people find in order to get into the right state of mind for that there are rituals. I suppose if you are able to reach that state without the ritual then that is fine. But you will still find yourself doing something to focus your energy even if it's a simply taking a deep breath. I think generally the ritual side of magik is losing it's appeal for the modern generation. I personally have disregarded some of the traditions which seem steeped in superstition for more modern practices. I wouldn't be seen in robes either and discount much of the 'pomp' involved. Why? Because this is the new eon. Religion has to change. Magik has to change. It all has to become accessible for everyone and brought into the modern world, it's happening like it or not and it's just a natural evolution.

Your point is absolutely valid. Things have changed so much just in the last 30-no- make that 15- years everything has got to catch up. I would be very wary of cutting corners though. We can't throw away hundreds of years of study but need to sift out the outdated ideas which simply do not apply now.

I'm glad you bought this up, I've been thinking along the same lines.
 
Believe me I know what you are trying to do - look behind the veil we have placed over magick and find the real codes hidden underneath that - this is a notoriously difficult quest but you KNOW what you are looking for.

The trouble with lifting the veil and looking behind it is... quite a lot of the time the only things people see is.. more veil. I have completed my quest and done this but if I tell you what I have seen and what I have done then this is more veil, if you manage it then whatever you see you will not be able to tell a soul - you just can't there aren't any words you can use.

I can give some guidance to what led me to the secret but I can't actually tell you what it is.

Books I reccomend reading are Transcendental Magick by Eliphas Levi, Liber 777 by Aleister Crowley, and I know you aren't going to believe this but read THE BIBLE - best one is the LDS version in my opinion but a lot of people have their own preferences. Combine Magick with Religion and question both of them thoroughly - compare the description of the Philosophers Stone in Eliphas Levi's book with the image and shape of the Qabalah - Aleister Crowley and Dion Fortune wrote extensively about Qabalah.

Also if it helps you on your way I will give you this clue. Metaphors and codes exist to confuse one's mind - but if you have the base code you can decode the whole thing. If something falls off a wall and it is a great fall - look for other "things" that have had a "great fall".
 
Books I reccomend reading are Transcendental Magick by Eliphas Levi, Liber 777 by Aleister Crowley, and I know you aren't going to believe this but read THE BIBLE -
Click to expand...

Absolutely! Having read these in the last 2 years I can say my eyes are now truly open :shock:

Combine Magick with Religion and question both of them thoroughly - compare the description of the Philosophers Stone in Eliphas Levi's book with the image and shape of the Qabalah - Aleister Crowley and Dion Fortune wrote extensively about Qabalah.
Click to expand...

Spot on again. Studying the Qabalah is a huge help too, very very interesting indeed.
It's easy to get lost & find yourself in too deep, but keep going. Read Crowley's Book of Thoth a few times too. By the time you have been verbally slapped with a wet kipper, had your eyes peeled open, seen the visions, had the nightmares, screamed "that's what it's all about!!" and felt your insides squirm until you feel an inch from death you are ready to start thinking about the magick :lol:
 
I don't mean to muddy the waters further, but, hey, this is my (and I stress strongly my) two pence worth..magick is at it's most useful when the practitioner is not attached to the idea of using magick. The best short cut I could offer you is stop trying to do magick. Just do it. Each time you attempt something, do so as if you are a beginner, with a beginner's mind. Be a fool.

We've all seen examples of this: people who have never played pool pot a killer shot first time..or a first-time archer hit a bullseye. Then, you start thinking 'ooooh, can I do that again?'...and the spark has gone.

It's only my humble opinion, as I said, but non-attachment to magick, no expectations..it's worth playing with.
 
bump


I really miss threads like this ... and people like these. Most esoterics seem to have shuffled on or been put off by the high priests of all that can be known.

Where now is the credulity of yore? Let's rework the wonder, folk. ;)
 
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