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R. Crumb & "Mr. Hoonrath"

BaronVonHoopla

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
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Has anyone read the story R. Crumb tells about someone he knew who dissapeared with a strange Man In Black sort of person named Mr. Hoonrath, or Hunrath?

I am going from memory here, but the story went something like this, Robert Crumb at some point in the 60's knew a guy who worked at Disney, which in the 50's had a tv show about the new space program. The Space program had some consultants from NASA (or whatever was running things then) who would oversee the program to ensure things were accurate.

Anyway, at some point this consultant was coming around with this strange guy named Hoonrath who seemed to follow him around, but didn't contribute much. Nobody paid much attention to this Hoonrath, as he was exceedingly average looking. At some sort of party the two were at someone offered Hoonrath an oatmeal cookie, which seemed to amaze him (sound familiar??) - so much so that he ended up asking the hostess if he could have the recipe.

Eventually the consultant told people he and Hoonrath were going away to where "there's no death or taxes!" and then he laughed. Nobody ever saw the consultant or this Hoonrath person ever again.

Crumb says that he was told that it wasn't until the two dissapeard that people tried to remember as much as they could about this Noonrath person, but nobody could remember much. He seemed so vague.

I did a quick seach on Google for the story, but found nothing . . . I think I read it in the "Complete Crumb" - I can see tonight if my memory messed any of it up, but I think it's pretty close.

Anyone else read this story?

-Fitz
 
Ah Fitz ~ you know what? Once I found out you liked Hunter S. Thompson and John Waters, I wondered if you liked R. Crumb as well! How about William S. Burroughs? Charles Bukowski? If so, are you my husband? And if you are: Stop f*cking around on the computer and get back to work!

Sorry, I don't know anything about this R. Crumb story. Was it illustrated or just a literary recounting? I'll ask the bigger half when he gets home ~ he might know.

EDIT: I asked ~ he hasn't heard the story either.
 
Ha! Not your husband as far as I know . . . unless . . . naw, my lady has interest in things fortean, but not enough to look them up on the internet . . . so, we'll go with no.

I love William S. Burroughs, but unfortunately at the present time I know nothing about Bukowski except that he is someone I would probably like . . . I've been told by many people, but haven't had a chance to look him up yet.

The Noonrath story I have is a one-page chapter start, but there are some illustrations of his interpretation Noonrath.

I will bring it into work with me tommorow and scan it. Provided I can find a way to post it on here. I'll find a way.

Say hi to your husband for me!

-Fitz
 
No, I see what you mean . . . its the same reason I have never liked Hemingway.

-Fitz
 
Uuummm...

First I thought this was about Ufology and MIB, but now I'm totally confused... :shock:

(Of course, it could be due to several pints of Brinkhoff's..... :oops: )
 
Being a proud owner of R. Crumb's "Zap Comix" #0
(thats right-- issue #0!) I just can't bring myself
to trust Mr. Crumb's memory. In the docufilm
about his life and work, he seems to have different
recollections of events than many of his
friends/family/business associates.
(I'm still haunted by the fact that his obviously
troubled brother commited suicide just after
his sequences were filmed.)

However -- if he had written down the
Nunrath story as it happened (or just
after) that is different. His current series
about his new life in France is fantastic!

I'm really intrigued... please post the scans
if possible!

TVgeek
 
Hi, I'm sorry I forgot the book when I came to work today, I feel like a fool. I will have it on Monday, sorry about the hold up.

Toe edited her posts above because we started talking about Charles Bukowski, and went wildly off topic. I'm going to keep my posts as is, so that the whole thing isn't totally confusing.

TVGeek - It is fully possible that the story Crumb recounts has been muddled by his memory over the years, but my feeling is that it is pretty close as he seemed very interested in the story, it seemed to have stayed lodged in his mind all this time. And, I'm pretty sure the story was told to Crumb and a few others, no just Crumb himself . . . so he may be able to ask other people about the story as well.

Again, I will have the scan on Monday. Sorry.

-Fitz
 
Ok, got it finally . . . it's a really really big book, so it is sort of cumbersome to drag around on the subway . . . anyway, the page was so large that I only scanned the image part in the centre. Today on my lunch I will transcribe the text and post in after this. Ok?

Here is Crumb's depiction of the enigmatic Noonrath:



16577.html
 
Wow -- thanks, Fitz!

OK -- that was published in 1975... probably drawn
a year or more before... and features a perfect
drawing of a grey. When was the Betty & Barney Hill
story published (or the TV movie shown?) Were
greys that prominent in the public consciousness
by that time? (I was around, but don't recall seeing
greys before the Hill TV movie.)

Cool find!
Thanks again!

TVgeek
 
Can't help but notice that the name in the scan is mr Hoonrath.

Having the correct name might help with searches.
 
Yes I noticed that too. I was going from memory.

So, everybody, it's HOONRATH. Not Noonrath.

And, a search with the accurate name brought these stories up . . . not exactly the same as Crumb says, but similar enough that its a tad odd. Unless he simply heard this story somewhere and went with it, though that seems unlikely. Anyway, here's what I found, with links:




Others of the original Adamski/ Williamson circle weren't so lucky. Channelers Wilbur Wilkinson and Karl Hunrath, who collaborated with Williamson during the latter half of 1953, disappeared in November of that year after setting off from the Gardena Airport in Los Angeles county to make contact with a grounded UFO. No trace of their rented plane was ever found. D.J. Detwiler of Carlsbad, California, the man responsible for processing Adamski's earliest flying saucer photographs, died shortly afterwards. Hal Nelson, an associate of Hunrath and Williamson, was drowned, and Lyman Streeter, the ham radio operator whose contactee experiences are described in The Saucers Speak, succumbed to a heart seizure.

The disappearance of Wilkinson and Hunrath has since become a classic in the annals of UFOlogy. Williamson later ventured the opinion that Hunrath "was working as an agent for the Blacks of six solar systems of the Orion Nebula." His own researches continued in an unbroken trajectory, encompassing hermetics, ancient tribal lore, and Theosophical literature. There can be no doubt that, by accident or design, he and his various collaborators played an enormous part in shaping New Age thought in all its manifestations. Together they constituted the single most important occult group of the post-war era. Their influence is made all the more remarkable by the fact that it has seldom been acknowledged, or even perceived, by other researchers in the field.

As the 50s drew to a close, Williamson ceased to play an active role in UFO research, and instead founded a monastery in the Andes mountains, This occupied his time for several years. Later he returned to Santa Barbara, California, and was ordained into the Nestorian Church. Always an enigmatic figure, he died in 1986, having retained his secrets to the end. Many details of his involvement with the Soulcraft group and its offshoots are now lost to us. Others of the circle are either dead or widely dispersed. Pelley and Adamski...Hunrath and Laughead...John McCoy and the Stanford brothers...It was from the tangled lives of these men that the contemporary UFO mythos first grew and took shape.

link


George Hunt Williamson is interviewed in 1954 by Carl Hunrath. Hunrath and Jack Wilkinson. Hunrath and Wilkinson disappeared on an airplane flight trying to contact flying saucers over the Mojave desert. This interview took place at Giant Rock, George Van Tassel's Mecca for Contactees - 35:00

link






On November 18, 1953, the Los Angeles Mirror reported that two missing electricians may have been kidnapped by interplanetary invaders in a Flying Saucer. The two Saucer enthusiasts were Karl Hunrath and Wilbur J. Wilkinson. They had taken off in a rented airplane from Gardena Airport on November 11th with a three-hour gas supply. Despite widespread search, no trace of the plane or its occupants has been seen. The rumor that the plane was found dismantled on the top of a California mountain with no sign of the two men is unfounded. Officials claim that nothing has turned up in the case as yet.

Wilkinson's wife told reporters that Karl Hunrath was an avid believer in Flying Saucers. She also told them that the two men believed the end of the world was nearing and that strange little men from the planet Mars or "Masar" were ready to invade us. Mrs. Wilkinson evidently misunderstood much of what Hunrath and her husband were doing and saying. First of all, the world is not going to end, and the "little men" are not from Mars or "Masar" but are from our own satellite, the Moon. The space visitors have proven this already by their actions.

Hunrath claimed to know the whereabouts of a Flying Saucer that had recently landed. Wilkinson's den was lined with Flying Saucer pictures, weird signs and formulas, which Mrs. Wilkinson said were supposed to be the new interplanetary language. "Of course, I don't quite go for all the Flying Saucer talk, but Karl convinced Wilbur they actually existed," said Mrs. Wilkinson. She then said, "Karl had tape recordings of conversations with men from other planets who landed here in Saucers." She showed reporters messages tacked on the wall of the den which were supposedly received by radio from the interplanetary visitors. One was from Regga of the planet Masar."

Karl Hunrath called up several of his acquaintances in Los Angeles the day before his disappearance. He informed them that he was going to take a trip. He said: "Others have left the Earth to go to other planets, so do not be surprised if I leave soon." The Flying Saucer pictures in the den had been taken by George Adamski, and the "weird signs and formulas" were received by our group working in Northern Arizona, starting in early August, 1952. The tape recordings that Hunrath had were taken during receptions of the Arizona research group.

In Clips, Quotes and Comments, B-10, May 15, 1954, a bi-weekly release of the Borderland Sciences Research Associates, correspondence of Mr. Harold T. Wilkins is quoted. Mr. Wilkins wrote: "It happens that I have spent years of research into petroglyphs and prehistoric symbols, in Central, South, and North America, and my tentative conclusions
were that some of the Wilkinson glyphs suggested or resembled, not Maya or Aztec symbols, but forms found in the North Brazilian jungles, the Matto Grosso, and one in the unknown prehistoric civilization in La Plata Island, off Ecuador; another in California; and the ancient water sign of cataclysm. Also, another recalled the Mu-an sign of coition or the double uterus. How can the question be resolved when even the Los Angeles postal authorities do not know where Hunrath's family has gone? I know not how came Karl Hunrath or Wilbur Wilkinson to have all this very peculiar and recondite knowledge which cannot be picked up in a day, or even in a year . . ."

The symbols are not reworked Aztec figures, and Hunrath received them from our group for study purposes. That is why they were found in his and Wilkinson's den. These symbols are given in this book under The Solex-Mal, in the section called: Other Tongues. Much of this symbolism is characteristic of the ancient scroll writing of the Atlanteans and of the ancient pictographic writing of Lemuria. Atlantis and Mu used modified forms of the original Solex-Mal. Symbols of this type exist in South America, especially in the Matto Grosso because the ruins of great antiquity there were originally colonies of the Lost Continents. Colonel Fawcett, the famous English explorer died while attempting to locate these fabulous lost cities of the ancient "white" Indians of Brazil.

The Wilkinsons have three children and moved to Los Angeles from Racine, Wisconsin on June 28, 1953. Hunrath had been in correspondence with Wilbur and convinced him that he should come to the west coast because of important Saucer developments. Wilkinson was then employed by Hoffman Radio Corp., where he was quickly promoted to head of the inspection department.

Wilbur, who was thirty-eight, had his den and home full of all sorts of electronic equipment, radios, turn-tables, and tape recorders. Mrs. Wilkinson told reporters that her husband wasn't too interested in Saucers except when Hunrath was around. She said, "Karl was the one who talked us into coming to California because he said he could actually show a Saucer to Wilbur." She later told them: "I just can't help but think that Flying Saucers really had something to do with their disappearance."

I knew Karl Hunrath personally, but I never met Wilkinson. It was in the Winter of 1952 that I first met Karl at George Adamski's on Mt. Palomar. He claimed he had just arrived from the east where he had been working at Oster Mfg. Co. in Wisconsin. During the next few months he visited many Saucer researchers including: Frank Scully, Gene Dorsey, George Van Tassel, Gerald Heard, Mr. "R" of radio contact fame, and he was my house guest in Prescott, Arizona for a week. It was during his stay in my home that I gave him copies of our findings.

He was a strange man who would change his mind and ideas from one moment to the next. You

link


You couldn't help but like him, but at times a feeling would come over you that made you wish there were a million miles between yourself and Mr. Hunrath. Everyone who came in contact with him had the same experience. Was he controlled by Orion forces?

He visited Saucer researchers as a friend, then systematically began to spread rumors about them and their work which had no basis in fact. He came to California unknown and soon was stirring up dissension wherever he went. Was it his purpose to cause trouble in the "hot-bed" of controversy existing among the California Saucer enthusiasts? Was it part of a plan formulated by negative forces? Why was Hunrath a brilliant scientist one moment and a not too bright electrician the next?

Theories as to the present whereabouts of Hunrath and Wilkinson are plentiful. Some believe that he has gone to Mars or some other planetary "haven"--and there are many of Karl's "followers" in Los Angeles who will tell you that this is positively so! Several experienced pilots believe Karl cracked-up on the side of Big Bear--a rugged, mountainous area of California. The plane didn't carry much fuel, and Big Bear is deceiving to those who have not flown over it before. Hunrath hadn't flown in a long time, and he had never flown near Big Bear before. The down-draft and illusive qualities of the mountain could have doomed the small plane. However, the wreckage should have been discovered when the snow melted in the Summer of 1954.


Some people think the two men went to Mexico, but they didn't have enough fuel for the trip. It has also been reported that Karl is in England and will reappear shortly, and also that he has been seen recently in Los Angeles with his hair dyed! He has been called a spaceman, a man possessed of evil spirits, an angel, a member of the F.B.I., and a Russian spy. What he really was no one knows--but we can guess.

What really happened to the two missing then and where are they now? It is not believed that space visitors had anything to do with their disappearance. Karl and Wilbur are not on Mars or any other extraterrestrial body; they are on Earth whether dead or alive. Here is an ad that appeared in the personal section of the Los Angeles Times on April 13, 1954. "Worried telepathists: This does it for you. Please prove my well being by writing of contacts you may recall." Karl, Box R-240, L. A. Times.
Biometrically, Hunrath does not show up as "unusual", but what samples were tested? Handwriting, etc. of Hunrath when he was himself, or when he was under control? This would make a vast difference in biometer results.

Before Hunrath arrived in California he had become acquainted with another so-called "genius" from Ohio. This man called Karl one night saying he had just returned from Japan where he had been working with Dr. Nagata on electromagnetic experiments. He asked Karl if he could come up to see him since he had heard that Karl was interested in magnetic research. The man came and he stayed four days and nights! When he left, Karl had become an avid Saucer enthusiast. Karl said he thought the man was a "spaceman" because he answered his questions before they were asked and displayed telepathic powers. This man also is very brilliant at times, and then again, at other times, he apparently can't even add two and two! This same man had an article printed in an Ohio newspaper stating that the Saucers were from Saturn and were here to invade and conquer the Earth! This is the pattern of The Intruder--to disrupt, cause dissension, strife, trouble, interfere!



-Fitz
 
Ok, and here is a transcription of what Crumb wrote on that same page that the drawings of Hunrath were on:


Twenty years ago, Bob Armstrong, Al Dodge and myself were visiting Ward Kimball. Kimball was one of the “Nine Old Men” who worked for decades for the Walt Disney Studios. He was a bigwig over there. He had a wondrous toy collection, loved old steam trains and played old-time jazz.

He told us an interesting story. Back in the 1950s they were working on a series about rockets and outerspace technology for the Disneyland TV show. I remember seeing those shows when I was a kid. There was a scientist named Wilkins who worked on the project. Wilkins started bringing around this guy called “Huunrath”, supposedly a colleague of his. Kimball said at first no one took much notice of the guy Huunrath. He was just unobtrusive. Later, people started asking “Well, just who is this Nuunrath?” He was kind of strange. he didn’t say much. He walked kind of stiffly and he wore a suit and tie that were ill-fitting. Then Wilkins and Huunrath disappeared and people tried to remember what they could about Huunrath.

Ward recalled that once at a dinner party at his house oatmeal cookies were served for dessert. Huunrath picked up a cookie and was turning it over in his hands and studying it very closely. Then he bit off a little piece, chewed on it awhile and asked Ward’s wife what the cookie was made of. The last time anybody saw Wilkins, he said he and Huunrath were going “where there was no death or taxes.” Then he laughed! Ward Kimball was very serious when he told us this story. He was amused, yet he thought it was strange.



-Fitz
 
The title of the Goodyear Theater production "Points Beyond", which has a character "Mr. Hoonrath", is intriuging. I can't find a copy of the script online unfortunately.


blurb from April (1999?) "Saucer Smear" newsletter:
Back to Frederick Valentich - this is one of the very few UFO cases that
really intrigue us, here at Smear. Either the man concocted a wild hoax to
cover up a voluntary permanent disappearance, or else he really was zapped.
It all reminds us of the long forgotten disappearance in 1952 of Karl Hunrath
and Jack Williamson of California, who rented a small plane at a minor Los An-
geles airport, in order to supposedly fly to a rendezvous with a flying saucer
and thereafter immigrate to Mars. In spite of a thorough FBI investigation,
neither man was ever heard from again, nor was the plane ever found! (Shudder,
gasp!)

I could not track down this reference at the Current offical online home of "Saucer Smear". But, then, the online archives only go back to 1994.
 
I noticed that too about the Goodyear Theatre production . . . a bit too close for comfort, no?

So what can we surmise from all this? It would seem that something obviously happened, two people dissapeared who were involved with UFOs, and one sounds suspiciously like a MIB.


-Fitz
 
Fitz:

The Crumb story is markedly different than the others. The only commonality is the "weird guy", the names (sort of...) and the disappearance.

The rest of the stories seem to be different views of the same events. Crumb's story seems like it could evolved out of the other over various retellings. Either Crumb, or his purported source could be telling a new story using muddled details from the original.
 
Philo,

Different yes, but I wouldn't say markedly. Keep in mind he admitted to having heard the story second hand, and many years later.

The names alone show something was going on. Wilkins and Wilkinson are extremely close, and I would be willing to bet that Crumb himself screwed up the name. It seems unlikely that someone working with this Wilkinson would forget his name. And, for the love of pete, come on . . . Hunrath . . . how common a name do you think that is?

So let's think about this . . . we have two guys involved to some degree with rockets and space, one named Wilkinson and another named Hunrath (who is apparently odd) . . . and then they both dissapear without a trace. Now, lets look at Crumb's story: we have two guys involved to some degree with rockets and space, one guy named Wilkins and another named Hunrath or Huunrath (who is apparently odd) . . . and then they both dissapear without a trace.

Markedly different?

The only difference that I can see is that Crumb's story had more information. Yes, it certainly could have details muddled over time, and I will even go so far as to say that he might just be repeating an urban legend, but MARKEDLY different? That goes beyond skepticism to ridiculousness.


-Fitz
 
In keeping with the "watch what you say" policy, I might add that the above post was not intended as a flame toward Philo, I simply think its stretching to say that two such obviously similar stories are somehow unrelated.


-Fitz
 
I was not trying to say that they're completely unrelated. Obviously there are some tantalizing links here. But my impression is that they are different stories.

Crumb's story just sounds like a different story which may be about the same men. Upon going back and reading your transcript, the biggest thing that stands out to me is that they were working as science consultants on rocketry for Disney in the 1950's. A high-profile thing like that just jumps out at me. Crumb's story also makes no metion of the specifics of their disappearance, they just went away, never to be heard from.

Actually, having some of the same information turn up in different places makes the information seem more credible. Versus the eight versions of the exact same story from the saucerheads. (Of course, somebody intentionally spreading disinformation could very well put that to use.)
 
Oh OK, I misunderstood you there . . . I totally agree with you, these are obviously the same men.

It's interesting to be getting this -seemingly- other point of view about this story, because you're right on the internet usually all you get are carbon copies of certain stories cut and pasted into different sites. This is clearly two different takes on what seems to be the same story.

I wonder who the hell this Hunrath was?


-Fitz
 
Not a lot more to add really, except that I just finished John Keel's "Our Haunted Planet" and he briefly recounts the Hunrath story in there as well.

Who WAS this man?
 
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