Religion Is Neurosis

Alexius4

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101's post last night about Jonathon Miller's new series mentioned in passing Freud's assertion that religious sentiment is a form of psychological disorder. This struck me as a strong topic - can religious experience, or the attraction some feel towards it, be dismissed as a form of neurosis?

I can think of two big objections:

- belief can be arrived at rationally. The arguments in favour may rest upon untestable assumptions, but are not all inconsistent.

- most have a tendency to promote psychological integration, rather than disharmony. When the ideaological tangles are cut aside, they constitute a means of defining ones place in the scheme of things, and of evaluating ones actions in relation to a bigger picture.
 

monster_magnet

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A summary of freuds argument:
Freud's major study on religion in European Christian civilization is his book which is entitled, The Future of An Illusion (1927). He reiterated his feeling that religion arose out of the conflictual relationship to the father and that it was a universal obsessional neurosis. Man's fear of death, his feelings of utter insecurity in the face of the powerful forces of nature, the deprivations that are inevitable in the course of living - all lead man to create objects and institutions which will help him master his anxieties. Wishes thus become realities. We create an omnipotent and omniscient Deity who has the ultimate power of control. The Deity will not only control the forces of nature but He will see to it that they operate on our benefical behalf. However, like a parent, He will require unending love, obedience, devotion and worship. Death is denied by the positing of the existence of an hereafter.
I can see how in some cases this could be construed as a reasonable explanation for the development of religions. What Freud seems to ignore is that religion was initially linked to fertility and the 'Earth Mother' scenario. Although, I guess the quest for knowledge and explanation is a common theme, with many different guises.

I happened across a more evolutionary, view which is interesting
All mankind has a common origin, as primates for many ages and as Homo Sapiens perhaps for a million years, They spread out, occupied different territories and continents and further changed in appearance and behavior. At some time in their long journey they became receptive to religion. There are two ways to account for this: supernatural indoctrination or naturally by mutation. (The first we will have to discard because of our axiom that everything is natural.) The mutation must have occurred before the line split into the several races as all races have a religion of a sort, or there was a similar mutation in each race, which is improbable.

Religion persisted because it was favorable to survival. It held the family, the tribe and eventually the nation together and enabled them to defend themselves against animal and human predators.

Time passed, and a few men were born without the religious gene. They made discoveries, the age of enlightenment began and with it the rise of science, and religion was no longer favorable to survival. It persisted as a vestige, 1ike the muscles in the cheek that were there to flap the ears, or the wisdom teeth that have no utility, cause a deal of misery and eventually have to be pulled.

Religion will continue until all who have that trait are eliminated by natural selection, and a new race of men is raised up with a genetic makeup fit to survive in the environment of that future age.
A religious gene? ineresting.:)
 

Mighty_Emperor

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Just a quick post (I'll be back with more references and details later) but the modern take on this tends to be:

1. There are specific parts of the brain that cause religious feelings and some of the non-physical phenomena of mysticsim. Its called a number of things but I prefer neurotheology (as mentioned above by Pinklefish).

2. That it is a form of delusion - like a mass folie a deux.
 

mejane

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Did Freud consider anyone to be "normal", whatever that means?

Humans are social animals (so science tells us... I have my doubts sometimes) and as such need to know how they fit into society and what the rules are, etc. The easiest way to lay down the law and to prevent mayhem and murder is for the alpha male or female to, well, lay down the law citing a all-knowing being who created the world and said that the tribe must do this and that otherwise the bad tribe will win. And so, G-d and his (and hence our tribe's) nemesis is born.

That's the cynical view.

Alternatively, the universe is an astoundingly wonderful frightening place and I've no idea how it all started or why. Maybe it was a god, or goddess or a committee or just an accident.

I'm pretty certain it wasn't all for my benefit though.

Jane.
 

Alexius4

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Heidegger came up with a similar stance to Freud - the confrontation with mortality being the defining moment of a person's life.

However, characterising religion as a response to the fear of dissolution is a lot like characterising science as a response to a fear of the unknown. It is neat and tidy, but reduces an expansive field of human experience to a single impulse.

The evolutionary theory suffers a little from begging the question - we have religion, therefore it must have evolved.

I prefer to see religion as having emerged in much the same way as philosophy and science - as a response to the contemplation of the world and our place in it. In that respect, it is cultural (in the sense of shared experience) and not determined by any force beyond itself and its context.
 

rjmrjmrjm

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Religion has been cited as the cause of Wars for centuries, but that was mainly because any ruling body of the past was religious and used religion as a form of control.

In these so called 'engligtened' times religion is slowly becoming defunct as sciences' unstoppable rampage continues. Govenments are becoming more secular and so the method of control changes. We now have wars being fought over science - The Cold War - technological supremacy and political ideology - were the motives - no religion involved. Iraq - the need for Oil to fuel the US's control over its population by providing them with the stability needed to keep them happy.
 

brianellwood

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Edward: Just happened to read your second quote in T.P's "the globe, the science of discworld" about an hour ago!
I just wish people could manage to be humane and 'altruistic' in their actions towards each other without the need for any creed, especially when many consider their God to be the ONLY right God; but then you're always going to have some greedy bas***ds in charge of world affairs out to spoil everything, whatever. Probably this is inevitable in the scheme of things.
 
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I can't remember where I picked this up, but i think it was from a review in the Evening Standard of Doc Miller's new series:

Religion is seen by ordinary men to be true; by wise men to be false; and by rulers to be useful .

I think the last part is certainly true. ;)
 

Electric_Monk

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I'm also of the opinion that while some religions may have simply evolved from people trying to make sense of things happening that may have seemed like magic at the time (What *is* the moon? Why did the wind decide to blow my house down?), but I do believe that in the past some rulers (or possibly religious leaders themselves who realised they were in a position to act as rulers) have changed and manipulated things for their own naughty purposes ;)
 

monster_magnet

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Colin, I see the same thing happening today, as we speak. An example was illustrated during BBCs Panorama programme last night when Cowboy George B started using emotive and specifically religious phrases in his speaches just after 911. Most noteably was the use of the word 'Crusade', which had a very negative effect on those Muslims families who lost people on 911. :(

In my view Religion and Politics should be kept appart at all costs.
 

Pinklefish

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I've thought of a new one: religion as Urban Legend.
Maybe when we were "of one line" something odd happened, perhaps a hallucination someone had while feverish, or having taken a hallucinogenic plant. and their experience got retold and twisted and exaggerated for millions of years and has resulted in all these differing relgions with similar basis.
 

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Individual belief is irrelevant though, in terms of the power of religion to control the masses.

You needn't believe in any particular god to know what happens to heretics. In a society where dissenters are burned at the stake, it's probably safe to say that even the most sceptical citizen will feel safer if they keep their mouth shut about their doubts.

In the past, it may have been the case that people with serious misgivings about religion continued to go to church and so on out of a healthy sense of self-preservation - nothing neurotic about that!
 

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The sick disease of catholicism allows nearly 800 kids to die for the sin of being born out of wedlock, them throws them in a septic tan.
.
 
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lordmongrove

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Names of the 796 children who died at Tuam Mother and Baby home
Their little bodies are still in the septic tank they were dumped in.

1925
Patrick Derrane 5 months
Mary Blake 4 months
Matthew Griffin 3 months
Mary Kelly 6 months
Peter Lally 11 months
Julia Hynes 1 year
James Murray 1 month
1926
Joseph McWilliam 6 months
John Mullen 3 months
Mary Wade 3 years
Maud McTigue 6 years
Bernard Lynch 3 years
Martin Shaughnessy 18 months
Bridget Glynn 1 year
Margaret Glynn 1 year
Patrick Gorham 21 months
Patrick O’Connell 1 year
John Carty 21 months
Madeline Bernard 2 years
Maureen Kenny 8 years
Kathleen Donohue 1 year
Thomas Donelan 2 years
Mary Quilan 2 years
Mary King 9 months
Mary Warde 21 months
George Coyne 2 years
Julia Cummins 18 months
Barbara Fola/ Wallace 9 months
Pauline Carter 11 months
Mary Walsh 1 year
Annie Stankard 10 months
John Connelly 9 months
Anthony Cooke 1 month
Michael Casey 3 years
Annie McCarron 2 months
Patricia Dunne 2 months
John Carty 3 months
Peter McNamara 7 weeks
Mary Shaughnessy 4 months
Joseph Coen 5 months
Mary Murphy 2 months
Patrick Kelly 2 months
Martin Rabbitte 6 weeks
Kathleen Quinn 7 months
Patrick Halpin 2 months
Martin McGuinness 6 months
1927
Mary Kate Connell 3 months
Patrick Raftery 7 months
Patrick Paterson 5 months
James Murray 1 month
Colman O’ Loughlin 5 months
Agnes Canavan 18 months
Christina Lynch 15 months
Mary O’Loughlin 6 months
Annie O’ Connor 15 months
John Greally 11 months
Joseph Fenigan 4 years
Mary Connolly 2 months
James Muldoon 4 months
Joseph Madden 3 months
Mary Devaney 18 months
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Michael Gannon 6 months
Bridget Cunningham 2 months
Margaret Conneely 18 months
Patrick Warren 8 months
James Mulryan 1 month
Mary Kate Fahey 3 years
Mary Mahon 1 month
Martin Flanagan 1 month
Mary Forde 4 months
Patrick Hannon 20 months
Michael Donellan 6 months
Joseph Ward 7 months
Walter Jordan 3 years
Mary Mullins 1 month
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Peter Christian 7 months
Mary Cunningham 5 months
James Ryan 9 months
Patrick O’Donnell 9 months
Mary Monaghan 4 years
Patrick O’Malley 1 year
Philomena Healy 11 months
Michael Ryan 1 year
Patrick Curran 6 months
Patrick Fahy 2 months
Laurence Molloy 5 months
Patrick Lynskey 6 months
Vincent Nally 21 months
Mary Grady 18 months
Martin Gould 21 months
Patrick Kelly 2 months
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Bridget Quinn 1 year
William Reilly 9 months
George Lestrange 7 months
Christy Walshe 15 months
Margaret Mary Gagen 1 year
Patrick Moran 4 months
Celia Healy 5months
James Quinn 4 years
Bridget Walsh 15months
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Patrick Shiels 4 months
Mary Teresa Drury 1 year
Peter O’Brien 18 months
Peter Malone 18 months
Carmel Moylan 8 months
Mary Burke 10 months
Mary Josephine Garvey 5 months
Mary Warde 10 months
Catherine Howley 9 months
Michael Pat McKenna 3 months
Richard Raftery 3 months
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Margaret Doorhy 8 months
Patrick Leonard 9 months
Mary Coyne 1 year
Mary Kate Walsh 2 years
Christina Burke 1 year
Mary Margaret Jordan 18 months
John Joseph McCann 8 months
Teresa McMullan 1 year
George Gavin 1 year
Joseph O’Boyle 2 months
Peter Nash 1 year
Bridget Galvin 3 months
Margaret Niland 3 years
Christina Quinn 3 months
Kathleen Cloran 9 years
Annie Sullivan 8 months
Patricia Judge 1 year
Mary Birmingham 9 months
Laurence Hill 11 months
Brendan Patrick Pender 1 month
Kate Fitzmaurice 4 months
Baby Mulkerrins 5 days
Angela Madden 3 months
Mary McDonagh 1 year
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Mary C Shaughnessy 1 month
Mary Moloney 11 months
Patrick Joseph Brennan 1 months
Anthony O’Toole 2 months
Mary Cloherty 9days
Joseph Fahy 10 months
Mary Finola Cunniffe 6 months
Martin Cassidy 5 months
Francis Walsh 3 months
Mary Garvey 4 months
Kathleen Gilchrist 8 months
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Harry Leonard 3 years
Mary Kate Guilfoyle 3 months
John Callinan 3 months
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Bridgid Holland 2 months
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Mary Brennan 4 months
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Josephine Steed 3 months
Mary Meeneghan 3 months
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Margaret Mary O’Gara 2 months
Eileen Butler 2 months
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John Kelly 2 months
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Norah McCann 1 months
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Rose O’Dowd 6 months
Mary Egan 4 months
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Brian O’Malley 4 months
Michael Madden 6 months
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Mary Margaret Lydon 3 months
Festus Sullivan 1 month
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Bridget Collins 5 weeks
Patrick Joseph Coleman 1 month
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Henry Monaghan 3 weeks
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Patrick Joseph Murphy 3 months
Catherine McHugh 4 months
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Mary Flaherty 19 months
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Eileen Quinn 2 years
Patrick Burke 9 months
Margaret Holland 2 days
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Patrick Qualter 3 years
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Mary Mulligan 2 months
Anthony Lally 5 months
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Vincent Egan 1 week
Nora Murphy 5 months
Patrick Garvey 6 months
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Baby Walsh 1 day
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Bridget Burke 3 months
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Martin Hughes 11 months
Mary Connolly 1 month
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Joseph Mulchrone 3 months
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John Creaven 2 weeks
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Patrick Joseph Ruane 4 months
Michael Quinn 8 months
Julia Coen 1 week
Annie McAndrew 5 months
John Walsh 3 months
Patrick Flaherty 6 months
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Joseph Macklin 1 day
Thomas Duffy 2 days
Elizabeth Fahy 4 months
James Kelly 2 months
Nora Gallagher 4 months
Kathleen Cannon 4 months
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Christopher Williams 1 year
Joseph Lynch 1 year
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William Glennan 18 months
Michael J Kelly 5 months
Patrick Gallagher 3 months
Michael Gerard Keane 2 months
Ellen Lawless 6 months
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Mary Finn 3 months
Martin Timlin 3 months
Mary McLoughlin 1 month
Mary Brennan 5 months
Patrick Dominic Egan 1 month
Nora Thornton 17 months
Anne Joyce 1 year
Catherine Kelly 10 months
Michael Monaghan 8 months
Simon John Hargraves 6 months
Baby Forde 1 day
Joseph Byrne 2 months
Patrick Hegarty 4 months
Patrick Corcoran 1 month
James Leonard 16 days
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Anne Ruane 11 days
Patrick Munnelly 3 months
John Lavelle 6 weeks
Patrick Ruane 24 days
Patrick Joseph Quinn 3 months
Joseph Kennelly 15 days
Kathleen Monaghan 3 months
Baby Quinn 2 days
Anthony Roche 4 months
Annie Roughneen 3 weeks
Anne Kate O’Hara 4 months
Patrick Joseph Nevin 3 months
John Joseph Hopkins 3 months
Thomas Gibbons 1 month
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Thomas Joseph Begley 2 months
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Kathleen Heneghan 25 days
Elizabeth Murphy 4 months
Nora Farnan 1 month
Teresa Tarpey 1 month
Margaret Carey 11 months
John Garvey 6 weeks
Bridget Goldrick 4 months
Bridget White 3 months
Noel Slattery 1 month
Mary T Connaughton 4 months
Nora McCormack 6 weeks
Joseph Hefferon 5 months
Mary Higgins 9 days
Mary Farrell 21 days
Mary McDonnell 1 month
Geraldine Cunniffe 11 weeks
Michael Mannion 3 months
Bridget McHugh 7 months
Mary McEvady 18 months
Helena Walsh 3 months
William McDoell 2 days
Michael Finn 14 months
Mary Murphy 10 months
Gertrude Glynn 6 months
Joseph Flaherty 7 weeks
Mary O’Malley 4 years
John P Callanan 13 days
Baby McDonnell 1 day
Female McDonnell 1 day
Christopher Burke 9 months
Stephen Connolly 8 months
Mary Atkinson 6 months
Mary Anne Finegan 7 weeks
Francis Richardson 15 months
Michael John Rice 6 months
Nora Carr 4 months
William Walsh 16 months
Vincent Cunnane 14 months
Eileen Coady 10 months
Female Roache 1 day
Male Roache 1 day
Patrick Flannery 2 months
John Dermody 3 months
Margaret Spellman 4 months
Austin Nally 3 months
Margaret Dolan 3 months
Vincent Finn 9 months
Bridget Grogan 6 months
1943
Thomas Patrick Cloran 9 weeks
Catherine Devere 1 month
Mary Josephine Glynn 1 day
Annie Connolly 9 months
Martin Cosgrove 7 weeks
Catherine Cunningham 2 years
Bridget Hardiman 2 months
Mary Grier 5 months
Mary P McCormick 2 months
Brendan Muldoon 5 weeks
Nora Moran 7 months
Joseph Maher 20 days
Teresa Dooley 3 months
Daniel Tully 7 months
Brendan Durkan 1 month
Sheila O’Connor 3 months
Annie Coen 6 months
Patrick J Kennedy 6 days
Thomas Walsh 2 months
Patrick Rice 1 year
Edward McGowan 10 months
Brendan Egan 10 months
Margaret McDonagh 1 month
Annie J Donellan 10 months
Thomas Walsh 14 days
Bridget Quinn 6 months
Mary Mulkerins 5 weeks
Kathleen Parkinson 10 months
Sheila Madeline Flynn 4 months
Patrick Joseph Maloney 2 months
Bridget Carney 7 months
Mary M O’Connor 6 months
Joseph Geraghty 3 months
Annie Coen 10 months
Martin Joseph Feeney 4 months
Anthony Finnegan 3 months
Patrick Coady 3 months
Baby Cunningham 1 day
Annie Fahy 3 months
Baby Byrne 1 day
Patrick Mullaney 18 months
Thomas Connelly 3 months
Mary Larkin 2 months
Margaret Kelly 4 months
Barbara McDonagh 4 months
Mary O’Brien 4 months
Keiran Hennelly 14 months
Annie Folan 4 months
Baby McNamara 1 day
Julia Murphy 3 months
1944
John Rockford 4 months
Vincent Geraghty 1 year
Male O’Brien 2 days
Anthony Deane 2 days
Mary Teresa O’Brien 15 days
John Connelly 3 months
Bridget Murphy 3 months
Patricia Dunne 2 months
Francis Kinahan 1 month
Joseph Sweeney 20 days
Josephine O’Hagan 6 months
Patrick Lavin 1 month
Annie Maria Glynn 13 months
Kate Agnes Moore 2 months
Kevin Kearns 15 months
Thomas Doocey 15 months
William Conneely 8 months
Margaret Spelman 16 months
Mary Kate Cullen 22 months
Kathleen Brown 3 years
Julia Kelly 19 months
Mary Connolly 7 years
Catherine Harrison 2 years
Eileen Forde 21 months
Michael Monaghan 2 years
Mary Frances Lenihan 3 days
Anthony Byrne 6 months
Jarlath Thornton 7 weeks
John Kelly 6 days
Joseph O’Brien 18 months
Anthony Hyland 3 months
Male Murray 1 day
Female Murray 1 day
Joseph F McDonnell 11 days
Mary Walsh 15 months
Baby Glynn 1 day
James Gaughan 14 months
Margaret Walsh 4 months
Mary P Moran 9 days
John Francis Malone 7 days
1945
Michael F Dempsey 7 weeks
Christina M Greally 4 months
Teresa Donnellan 1 month
Rose Anne King 5 weeks
Christopher J Joyce 2 months
James Mannion 8 months
Mary T Sullivan 3 weeks
Patrick Holohan 11 months
Michael Joseph Keane 1 month
Bridget Keaney 2 months
Joseph Flaherty 8 days
Baby Mahady 3 days
James Rogers 10 days
Kathleen F Taylor 9 months
Gerard C Hogan 7 months
Kathleen Corrigan 2 months
Mary Connolly 3 months
Patrick J Farrell 5 months
Patrick Laffey 3 years
Fabian Hynes 8 months
John Joseph Grehan 2 years
Edward O’Malley 3 months
Mary Fleming 6 months
Bridget F McHugh 3 months
Michael Folan 18 months
Oliver Holland 6 months
Ellen Nevin 7 months
Margaret Horan 6 months
Peter Mullarky 4 months
Mary P O’Brien 4 months
Teresa Francis O’Brien 4 months
Mary Kennedy 18 months
Sarah Ann Carroll 4 months
Baby Maye 5 days
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Mary Devaney 21 days
Anthony McDonnell 6 months
Vincent Molloy 7 days
John Patrick Lyons 5 months
Gerald Aidan Timlin 3 days
Patrick Costelloe 17 days
John Francis O’Grady 1 month
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Josephine Finnegan 20 months
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Mary Davey 2 months
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Patrick Thomas Coen 1 month
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Mary Flaherty 5 days
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Martin J Kennelly 1 month
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Mary Ellen McKeigue 7 weeks
1950
Mary J Mulchrone 3 months
Catherine Higgins 4 years
Catherine Anne Egan 3 months
Thomas McQuaid 4 months
Dermott Muldoo 4 months
Martin Hanley 9 weeks
John Joseph Lally 3 months
Brendan Larkin 5 months
Baby Bell 1 day
Mary J Larkin 7 months
Annie Fleming 9 months
Colm A McNulty 1 month
Walter Flaherty 3 months
Sarah Burke 15 days
Mary Ann Boyle 5 months
John Anthony Murphy 5 months
Joseph A Colohan 4 months
Christopher Begley 18 days
1951
Catherine A Meehan 4 months
Martin McLynskey 6 months
Mary J Crehan 3 months
Mary Ann McDonagh 2 months
Joseph Folan 22 days
Evelyn Barrett 4 months
Paul Morris 4 months
Peter Morris 4 months
Mary Martyna Joyce 18 months
Mary Margaret Lane 7 months
1952
John Noone 4 months
Anne J McDonnell 6 months
Joseph Anthony Burke 6 months
Patrick Hardiman 6 months
Patrick Naughton 12 days
Josephine T Staunton 21 days
John Joseph Mills 5 months
1953
Baby Hastings 1 day
Mary Donlon 4 months
Nora Connolly 15 months
1954
Anne Heneghan 3 months
Mary Keville 9 months
Martin Murphy 5 months
Mary Barbara Murphy 5 months
Mary P Logue 5 months
Margaret E Cooke 6 months
Mary Ann Broderick 14 months
Ann Marian Fahy 4 months
Anne Dillon 4 months
Imelda Halloran 2 years
1955
Joseph Gavin 10 months
Marian Brigid Mulryan 10 months
Mary C Rafferty 3 months
Nora Mary Howard 4 months
Joseph Dempsey 3 months
Patrick Walsh 3 weeks
Francis M Heaney 3 years
1956
Dermot Gavin 2 weeks
Mary C Burke 3 years
Patrick Burke 1 year
Paul Henry Nee 5 months
Oliver Reilly 4 months
Gerard Connaughton 11 months
Rose Marie Murphy 2 years
1957
Margaret Connaire 4 months
Stephen Noel Browne 2 years
Baby Fallon 4 days
1958
Geraldine O’Malley 6 months
1959
Dolores Conneely 7 months
Mary Maloney 4 months
1960
Mary Carty 5 months
#saytheirnames #796 #tuambabies #nopetothepope #WMOF2018 #stand4truthNames of the 796
 

Fluttermoth

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Names of the 796 children who died at Tuam Mother and Baby home
Their little bodies are still in the septic tank they were dumped in.

1925
Patrick Derrane 5 months
Mary Blake 4 months
Matthew Griffin 3 months
Mary Kelly 6 months
Peter Lally 11 months
Julia Hynes 1 year
James Murray 1 month
1926
Joseph McWilliam 6 months
John Mullen 3 months
Mary Wade 3 years
Maud McTigue 6 years
Bernard Lynch 3 years
Martin Shaughnessy 18 months
Bridget Glynn 1 year
Margaret Glynn 1 year
Patrick Gorham 21 months
Patrick O’Connell 1 year
John Carty 21 months
Madeline Bernard 2 years
Maureen Kenny 8 years
Kathleen Donohue 1 year
Thomas Donelan 2 years
Mary Quilan 2 years
Mary King 9 months
Mary Warde 21 months
George Coyne 2 years
Julia Cummins 18 months
Barbara Fola/ Wallace 9 months
Pauline Carter 11 months
Mary Walsh 1 year
Annie Stankard 10 months
John Connelly 9 months
Anthony Cooke 1 month
Michael Casey 3 years
Annie McCarron 2 months
Patricia Dunne 2 months
John Carty 3 months
Peter McNamara 7 weeks
Mary Shaughnessy 4 months
Joseph Coen 5 months
Mary Murphy 2 months
Patrick Kelly 2 months
Martin Rabbitte 6 weeks
Kathleen Quinn 7 months
Patrick Halpin 2 months
Martin McGuinness 6 months
1927
Mary Kate Connell 3 months
Patrick Raftery 7 months
Patrick Paterson 5 months
James Murray 1 month
Colman O’ Loughlin 5 months
Agnes Canavan 18 months
Christina Lynch 15 months
Mary O’Loughlin 6 months
Annie O’ Connor 15 months
John Greally 11 months
Joseph Fenigan 4 years
Mary Connolly 2 months
James Muldoon 4 months
Joseph Madden 3 months
Mary Devaney 18 months
1928
Michael Gannon 6 months
Bridget Cunningham 2 months
Margaret Conneely 18 months
Patrick Warren 8 months
James Mulryan 1 month
Mary Kate Fahey 3 years
Mary Mahon 1 month
Martin Flanagan 1 month
Mary Forde 4 months
Patrick Hannon 20 months
Michael Donellan 6 months
Joseph Ward 7 months
Walter Jordan 3 years
Mary Mullins 1 month
1929
Peter Christian 7 months
Mary Cunningham 5 months
James Ryan 9 months
Patrick O’Donnell 9 months
Mary Monaghan 4 years
Patrick O’Malley 1 year
Philomena Healy 11 months
Michael Ryan 1 year
Patrick Curran 6 months
Patrick Fahy 2 months
Laurence Molloy 5 months
Patrick Lynskey 6 months
Vincent Nally 21 months
Mary Grady 18 months
Martin Gould 21 months
Patrick Kelly 2 months
1930
Bridget Quinn 1 year
William Reilly 9 months
George Lestrange 7 months
Christy Walshe 15 months
Margaret Mary Gagen 1 year
Patrick Moran 4 months
Celia Healy 5months
James Quinn 4 years
Bridget Walsh 15months
1931
Patrick Shiels 4 months
Mary Teresa Drury 1 year
Peter O’Brien 18 months
Peter Malone 18 months
Carmel Moylan 8 months
Mary Burke 10 months
Mary Josephine Garvey 5 months
Mary Warde 10 months
Catherine Howley 9 months
Michael Pat McKenna 3 months
Richard Raftery 3 months
1932
Margaret Doorhy 8 months
Patrick Leonard 9 months
Mary Coyne 1 year
Mary Kate Walsh 2 years
Christina Burke 1 year
Mary Margaret Jordan 18 months
John Joseph McCann 8 months
Teresa McMullan 1 year
George Gavin 1 year
Joseph O’Boyle 2 months
Peter Nash 1 year
Bridget Galvin 3 months
Margaret Niland 3 years
Christina Quinn 3 months
Kathleen Cloran 9 years
Annie Sullivan 8 months
Patricia Judge 1 year
Mary Birmingham 9 months
Laurence Hill 11 months
Brendan Patrick Pender 1 month
Kate Fitzmaurice 4 months
Baby Mulkerrins 5 days
Angela Madden 3 months
Mary McDonagh 1 year
1933
Mary C Shaughnessy 1 month
Mary Moloney 11 months
Patrick Joseph Brennan 1 months
Anthony O’Toole 2 months
Mary Cloherty 9days
Joseph Fahy 10 months
Mary Finola Cunniffe 6 months
Martin Cassidy 5 months
Francis Walsh 3 months
Mary Garvey 4 months
Kathleen Gilchrist 8 months
Mary Kate Walsh 1 months
Eileen Fallon 18 months
Harry Leonard 3 years
Mary Kate Guilfoyle 3 months
John Callinan 3 months
John Kilmartin 2 months
Julia Shaughnessy 3 months
Patrick Prendergast 6 months
Bridgid Holland 2 months
Bridgid Moran 15 months
Margaret Mary Fahy 15 months
Bridgid Ryan 9 months
Mary Brennan 4 months
Mary Conole 1 months
John Flattery 2 years
Margaret Donohue 10 months
Joseph Dunn 3 years
Owen Lenane 2 months
Josephine Steed 3 months
Mary Meeneghan 3 months
James McIntyre 4 months
1934
John Joseph Murphy 4 months
Margaret Mary O’Gara 2 months
Eileen Butler 2 months
Thomas Molloy 2 months
James Joseph Bodkin 6 months
John Kelly 2 months
Mary Walshe 6 months
Mary Jo Colohan 4 months
Florence Conneely 7 months
Norah McCann 1 months
Mary Kelly 9 months
Rose O’Dowd 6 months
Mary Egan 4 months
Michael Concannon 4 months
Paul Joyce 10 months
Mary Christina Kennedy 4 months
Bridget Finnegan 2 months
Mary Flaherty 3 months
Thomas McDonagh 4 months
Joseph Hoey 1 year
Sheila Tuohy 9 years
Teresa Cunniffe 3 months
Joseph Clohessy 2 months
Mary Kiely 4 months
Thomas Cloran 6 months
Mary Burke 3 months
Mary Marg Flaherty 4 months
John Keane 17 days
Luke Ward 15 months
Mary O’Reilly 5 months
1935
Ellen Mountgomery 18 months
Mary Elizabeth Lydon 4 months
Brigid Madden 1 month
Mary Margaret Murphy 4 months
Mary Nealon 7 months
Stephen Linnane 4 months
Josephine Walsh 1 years
Kate Cunningham 2 months
Mary Bernadet Hibbett 1 month
Thomas Linnane 4 months
Patrick Lane 3 months
Mary Anne Conway 2 months
James Kane 8 months
Christopher Leech 3 months
Elizabeth Ann McCann 5 months
Margaret Mary Coen 2 months
Michael Linnane 15months
Bridget Glenane 5 weeks
1936
John O’Toole 7 months
John Creshal 4 months
Mary Teresa Egan 3 months
Michael Boyle 3 months
Anthony Mannion 6 weeks
Donald Dowd 5 months
Peter Ridge 4 months
Eileen Collins 2 months
Mary Brennan 2 months
James Fahy 5 months
Mary Bridget Larkin 8 months
Margaret Scanlon 3 years
Brian O’Malley 4 months
Michael Madden 6 months
1937
Mary Kate Cahill 2 weeks
Mary Margaret Lydon 3 months
Festus Sullivan 1 month
Annie Curley 3 weeks
Nuala Lydon 5 months
Bridget Collins 5 weeks
Patrick Joseph Coleman 1 month
Joseph Hannon 6 weeks
Henry Monaghan 3 weeks
Michael Joseph Shiels 7 weeks
Martin Sheridan 5 weeks
John Patrick Loftus 10 months
Patrick Joseph Murphy 3 months
Catherine McHugh 4 months
Mary Patricia Toher 4 months
Mary Kate Sheridan 4 months
Mary Flaherty 19 months
Mary Anne Walsh 14 months
Eileen Quinn 2 years
Patrick Burke 9 months
Margaret Holland 2 days
Joseph Langan 6 months
Sabina Pauline O’Grady 6 months
Patrick Qualter 3 years
Mary King 5 months
Eileen Conry 1 year
1938
Mary Nee 4 months
Martin Andrew Larkin 14 months
Mary Keane 3 weeks
Kathleen V Cuffe 6 months
Margaret Linnane 4 months
Teresa Heneghan 3 months
John Neary 7 months
Patrick Madden 4 months
Mary Cafferty 2 months
Mary Kate Keane 3 months
Patrick Hynes 3 weeks
Annie Solan 2 months
Charles Lydon 9 months
Margaret Mullins 7 months
Mary Mulligan 2 months
Anthony Lally 5 months
Joseph Spelman 6 weeks
Annie Begley 3 months
Vincent Egan 1 week
Nora Murphy 5 months
Patrick Garvey 6 months
Patricia Burke 4 months
Winifred Barret 2 years
Agnes Marron 3 months
Christopher Kennedy 5 months
Patrick Harrington 1 week
1939
Kathleen Devine 2 years
Vincent Garaghan 1 month
Ellen Gibbons 6 months
Michael McGrath 4 months
Edward Fraser 3 months
Bridget Lally 1 year
Patrick McLoughlin 5 months
Martin Healy 4 months
Nora Duffy 3 months
Margaret Higgins 1 week
Patrick Egan 6 months
Vincent Farragher 11 months
Patrick Joseph Jordan 3 months
Michael Hanley 1 month
Catherine Gilmore 3 months
Baby Carney 1 day
Annie Coyne 3 months
Helena Cosgrave 5 months
Thomas Walsh 2 months
Baby Walsh 1 day
Kathleen Hession 4 months
Brigid Hurley 11 months
Ellen Beegan 2 months
Mary Keogh 1 year
Bridget Burke 3 months
1940
Martin Reilly 9 months
Martin Hughes 11 months
Mary Connolly 1 month
Mary Kate Ruane 1 month
Joseph Mulchrone 3 months
Michael Williams 14 months
Martin Moran 7 weeks
Josephine Mahony 2 months
James Henry 5 weeks
Bridget Staunton 5 months
John Creaven 2 weeks
Peter Lydon 6 weeks
Patrick Joseph Ruane 4 months
Michael Quinn 8 months
Julia Coen 1 week
Annie McAndrew 5 months
John Walsh 3 months
Patrick Flaherty 6 months
Bernadette Purcell 2 years
Joseph Macklin 1 day
Thomas Duffy 2 days
Elizabeth Fahy 4 months
James Kelly 2 months
Nora Gallagher 4 months
Kathleen Cannon 4 months
Winifred Tighe 8 months
Christopher Williams 1 year
Joseph Lynch 1 year
Andrew McHugh 15 months
William Glennan 18 months
Michael J Kelly 5 months
Patrick Gallagher 3 months
Michael Gerard Keane 2 months
Ellen Lawless 6 months
1941
Mary Finn 3 months
Martin Timlin 3 months
Mary McLoughlin 1 month
Mary Brennan 5 months
Patrick Dominic Egan 1 month
Nora Thornton 17 months
Anne Joyce 1 year
Catherine Kelly 10 months
Michael Monaghan 8 months
Simon John Hargraves 6 months
Baby Forde 1 day
Joseph Byrne 2 months
Patrick Hegarty 4 months
Patrick Corcoran 1 month
James Leonard 16 days
Jane Gormley 22 days
Anne Ruane 11 days
Patrick Munnelly 3 months
John Lavelle 6 weeks
Patrick Ruane 24 days
Patrick Joseph Quinn 3 months
Joseph Kennelly 15 days
Kathleen Monaghan 3 months
Baby Quinn 2 days
Anthony Roche 4 months
Annie Roughneen 3 weeks
Anne Kate O’Hara 4 months
Patrick Joseph Nevin 3 months
John Joseph Hopkins 3 months
Thomas Gibbons 1 month
Winifred McTigue 7 months
Thomas Joseph Begley 2 months
1942
Kathleen Heneghan 25 days
Elizabeth Murphy 4 months
Nora Farnan 1 month
Teresa Tarpey 1 month
Margaret Carey 11 months
John Garvey 6 weeks
Bridget Goldrick 4 months
Bridget White 3 months
Noel Slattery 1 month
Mary T Connaughton 4 months
Nora McCormack 6 weeks
Joseph Hefferon 5 months
Mary Higgins 9 days
Mary Farrell 21 days
Mary McDonnell 1 month
Geraldine Cunniffe 11 weeks
Michael Mannion 3 months
Bridget McHugh 7 months
Mary McEvady 18 months
Helena Walsh 3 months
William McDoell 2 days
Michael Finn 14 months
Mary Murphy 10 months
Gertrude Glynn 6 months
Joseph Flaherty 7 weeks
Mary O’Malley 4 years
John P Callanan 13 days
Baby McDonnell 1 day
Female McDonnell 1 day
Christopher Burke 9 months
Stephen Connolly 8 months
Mary Atkinson 6 months
Mary Anne Finegan 7 weeks
Francis Richardson 15 months
Michael John Rice 6 months
Nora Carr 4 months
William Walsh 16 months
Vincent Cunnane 14 months
Eileen Coady 10 months
Female Roache 1 day
Male Roache 1 day
Patrick Flannery 2 months
John Dermody 3 months
Margaret Spellman 4 months
Austin Nally 3 months
Margaret Dolan 3 months
Vincent Finn 9 months
Bridget Grogan 6 months
1943
Thomas Patrick Cloran 9 weeks
Catherine Devere 1 month
Mary Josephine Glynn 1 day
Annie Connolly 9 months
Martin Cosgrove 7 weeks
Catherine Cunningham 2 years
Bridget Hardiman 2 months
Mary Grier 5 months
Mary P McCormick 2 months
Brendan Muldoon 5 weeks
Nora Moran 7 months
Joseph Maher 20 days
Teresa Dooley 3 months
Daniel Tully 7 months
Brendan Durkan 1 month
Sheila O’Connor 3 months
Annie Coen 6 months
Patrick J Kennedy 6 days
Thomas Walsh 2 months
Patrick Rice 1 year
Edward McGowan 10 months
Brendan Egan 10 months
Margaret McDonagh 1 month
Annie J Donellan 10 months
Thomas Walsh 14 days
Bridget Quinn 6 months
Mary Mulkerins 5 weeks
Kathleen Parkinson 10 months
Sheila Madeline Flynn 4 months
Patrick Joseph Maloney 2 months
Bridget Carney 7 months
Mary M O’Connor 6 months
Joseph Geraghty 3 months
Annie Coen 10 months
Martin Joseph Feeney 4 months
Anthony Finnegan 3 months
Patrick Coady 3 months
Baby Cunningham 1 day
Annie Fahy 3 months
Baby Byrne 1 day
Patrick Mullaney 18 months
Thomas Connelly 3 months
Mary Larkin 2 months
Margaret Kelly 4 months
Barbara McDonagh 4 months
Mary O’Brien 4 months
Keiran Hennelly 14 months
Annie Folan 4 months
Baby McNamara 1 day
Julia Murphy 3 months
1944
John Rockford 4 months
Vincent Geraghty 1 year
Male O’Brien 2 days
Anthony Deane 2 days
Mary Teresa O’Brien 15 days
John Connelly 3 months
Bridget Murphy 3 months
Patricia Dunne 2 months
Francis Kinahan 1 month
Joseph Sweeney 20 days
Josephine O’Hagan 6 months
Patrick Lavin 1 month
Annie Maria Glynn 13 months
Kate Agnes Moore 2 months
Kevin Kearns 15 months
Thomas Doocey 15 months
William Conneely 8 months
Margaret Spelman 16 months
Mary Kate Cullen 22 months
Kathleen Brown 3 years
Julia Kelly 19 months
Mary Connolly 7 years
Catherine Harrison 2 years
Eileen Forde 21 months
Michael Monaghan 2 years
Mary Frances Lenihan 3 days
Anthony Byrne 6 months
Jarlath Thornton 7 weeks
John Kelly 6 days
Joseph O’Brien 18 months
Anthony Hyland 3 months
Male Murray 1 day
Female Murray 1 day
Joseph F McDonnell 11 days
Mary Walsh 15 months
Baby Glynn 1 day
James Gaughan 14 months
Margaret Walsh 4 months
Mary P Moran 9 days
John Francis Malone 7 days
1945
Michael F Dempsey 7 weeks
Christina M Greally 4 months
Teresa Donnellan 1 month
Rose Anne King 5 weeks
Christopher J Joyce 2 months
James Mannion 8 months
Mary T Sullivan 3 weeks
Patrick Holohan 11 months
Michael Joseph Keane 1 month
Bridget Keaney 2 months
Joseph Flaherty 8 days
Baby Mahady 3 days
James Rogers 10 days
Kathleen F Taylor 9 months
Gerard C Hogan 7 months
Kathleen Corrigan 2 months
Mary Connolly 3 months
Patrick J Farrell 5 months
Patrick Laffey 3 years
Fabian Hynes 8 months
John Joseph Grehan 2 years
Edward O’Malley 3 months
Mary Fleming 6 months
Bridget F McHugh 3 months
Michael Folan 18 months
Oliver Holland 6 months
Ellen Nevin 7 months
Margaret Horan 6 months
Peter Mullarky 4 months
Mary P O’Brien 4 months
Teresa Francis O’Brien 4 months
Mary Kennedy 18 months
Sarah Ann Carroll 4 months
Baby Maye 5 days
1946
Mary Devaney 21 days
Anthony McDonnell 6 months
Vincent Molloy 7 days
John Patrick Lyons 5 months
Gerald Aidan Timlin 3 days
Patrick Costelloe 17 days
John Francis O’Grady 1 month
Bridget Mary Flaherty 12 days
Josephine Finnegan 20 months
Martin McGrath 3 days
Baby Haugh 1 day
James Frayne 1 month
Mary Frances Crealy 14 days
Mary Davey 2 months
Patrick Joseph Hoban 11 days
Angela Dolan 3 months
Mary Lyden 5 months
Bridget Coneely 4 months
Austin O’Toole 4 months
Bernard Laffey 5 months
Mary Ellen Waldron 8 months
Terence O’Boyle 3 months
Mary Frances O’Hara 1 month
Martin Dermott Henry 43 days
Mary Devaney 3 months
Bridget Foley 6 months
Martin Kilkelly 40 days
Theresa Monica Hehir 6 weeks
Patrick A Mitchell 3 months
John Kearney 5 months
John Joseph Kelly 3 months
John Conneely 4 months
Stephen L O’Toole 2 months
Thomas A Buckley 5 weeks
Michael John Gilmore 3 months
Patrick J Monaghan 3 months
Mary Teresa Murray 2 months
Patrick McKeighe 2 months
John Raymond Feeney 3 months
Finbar Noone 2 months
John O’Brien 21 days
Beatrice Keane 5 years
Mary P Veale 5 weeks
Winifred Gillespie 1 year
Anthony Coen 10 weeks
Michael F Sheridan 3 months
Anne Holden 3 months
Martin Joseph O’Brien 7 weeks
Winifred Larkin 1 month
1947
Patrick Thomas Coen 1 month
Mary Bridget Joyce 8 months
Geraldine Collins 13 months
Mary Flaherty 5 days
Vincent Keogh 5 months
John Francis Healy 10 days
Martin J Kennelly 1 month
Patrick Keaveney 2 months
Philomena Flynn 2 months
William Reilly 9 months
Margaret N Concannon 1 year
Patrick J Fitzpatrick 14days
Joseph Cunningham 2 months
Mary J Flaherty 13 months
Kathleen Murray 3 years
John O’Connell 2 years
Alphonsus Hanley 21 months
Bridget P Muldoon 11 months
Patricia C Higgins 5 months
Catherine B Kennedy 2 months
John Desmond Dolan 15 months
Stephen Joynt 2 years
Catherine T Kearns 2 years
Margaret Hurney 2 years
John Patton 2 years
Patrick J Williams 15 months
Nora Hynes 8 months
Anthony Donohue 2 years
Brendan McGreal 1 year
Anthony Cafferky 23 days
Nora Cullinane 18 months
Kathleen Daly 2 years
Nora Conneely 15 months
Mary Teresa Joyce 13 months
Kenneth A Ellesmere 1 day
Mary P Carroll 4 months
Thomas Collins 17 months
Margaret M Moloney 3 months
Josephine Tierney 8 months
Margaret M Deasy 3 months
Martin Francis Bane 3 months
Bridget Agatha Kenny 2 months
Baby Kelly 1 day
Mary Teresa Judge 15 months
Paul Dominick Bennett 3 months
Mary Bridget Giblin 18 months
1948
Kathleen Madden 2 months
Mary P Byrne 8 weeks
Joseph Byrce 4 months
Joseph Byrne 11 months
Kathleen Glynn 4 months
Augustine Jordan 9 months
Michael F Dwyer 18 months
Noel C Murphy 14 months
Margaret McNamee 6 months
Patrick Grealish 6 weeks
Bernadette O’Reilly 7 months
John Joseph Carr 3 weeks
Paul Gardiner 10 months
Simon Thomas Folan 9 weeks
Joseph Ferguson 3 months
Peter Heffernan 4 months
Patrick J Killeen 14 weeks
Stephen Halloran 7 months
Teresa Grealish 5 months
John Keane 4 months
Mary Burke 9 months
Brigid McTigue 3 months
Margaret R Broderick 8 months
Martin Mannion 3 months
1949
Mary Margaret Riddell 8 months
Thomas J Noonan 7 weeks
Peter Casey 10 months
Michael Scully 3 months
Baby Lyons 5 days
Hubert McLoughlin 4 months
Mary M Finnegan 3 months
Nicholas P Morley 3 months
Teresa Bane 6 months
Patrick J Kennedy 5 weeks
Michael Francis Ryan 3 days
John Forde 2 years
Mary P Cunnane 3 months
Margaret P Sheridan 4 months
Patrick Joseph Nevin 3 months
Joseph Nally 5 months
Christopher Burke 3 months
Anne Madden 7 weeks
Bridget T Madden 7 weeks
Thomas Murphy 3 months
Francis Carroll 2 months
Bridget J Linnan 9 months
Josephine Staunton 8 days
Mary Ellen McKeigue 7 weeks
1950
Mary J Mulchrone 3 months
Catherine Higgins 4 years
Catherine Anne Egan 3 months
Thomas McQuaid 4 months
Dermott Muldoo 4 months
Martin Hanley 9 weeks
John Joseph Lally 3 months
Brendan Larkin 5 months
Baby Bell 1 day
Mary J Larkin 7 months
Annie Fleming 9 months
Colm A McNulty 1 month
Walter Flaherty 3 months
Sarah Burke 15 days
Mary Ann Boyle 5 months
John Anthony Murphy 5 months
Joseph A Colohan 4 months
Christopher Begley 18 days
1951
Catherine A Meehan 4 months
Martin McLynskey 6 months
Mary J Crehan 3 months
Mary Ann McDonagh 2 months
Joseph Folan 22 days
Evelyn Barrett 4 months
Paul Morris 4 months
Peter Morris 4 months
Mary Martyna Joyce 18 months
Mary Margaret Lane 7 months
1952
John Noone 4 months
Anne J McDonnell 6 months
Joseph Anthony Burke 6 months
Patrick Hardiman 6 months
Patrick Naughton 12 days
Josephine T Staunton 21 days
John Joseph Mills 5 months
1953
Baby Hastings 1 day
Mary Donlon 4 months
Nora Connolly 15 months
1954
Anne Heneghan 3 months
Mary Keville 9 months
Martin Murphy 5 months
Mary Barbara Murphy 5 months
Mary P Logue 5 months
Margaret E Cooke 6 months
Mary Ann Broderick 14 months
Ann Marian Fahy 4 months
Anne Dillon 4 months
Imelda Halloran 2 years
1955
Joseph Gavin 10 months
Marian Brigid Mulryan 10 months
Mary C Rafferty 3 months
Nora Mary Howard 4 months
Joseph Dempsey 3 months
Patrick Walsh 3 weeks
Francis M Heaney 3 years
1956
Dermot Gavin 2 weeks
Mary C Burke 3 years
Patrick Burke 1 year
Paul Henry Nee 5 months
Oliver Reilly 4 months
Gerard Connaughton 11 months
Rose Marie Murphy 2 years
1957
Margaret Connaire 4 months
Stephen Noel Browne 2 years
Baby Fallon 4 days
1958
Geraldine O’Malley 6 months
1959
Dolores Conneely 7 months
Mary Maloney 4 months
1960
Mary Carty 5 months
#saytheirnames #796 #tuambabies #nopetothepope #WMOF2018 #stand4truthNames of the 796
Heartbreaking; I genuinely scrolled through and read that whole list. Some of the saddest are the unnamed babes; 'Baby Bell 1 day' 'Baby Hastings 1 day', awful :*(
 

Yithian

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This is an emotive subject, but let's be sure to lay the blame precisely in the right place. I've removed the additional 'fucks' and the broad insults about the pope and paedophiles from lordmongrove's post.

This is not Facebook or Twitter, and the obscenity of crime needs no embellishment.

Catholicism teaches that babies should be born within the bonds of marriage, but it doesn't say that they should be thrown down a well if they are not; these were wicked people who used Catholicism as their excuse.

If (as I think likely) there was institutional corruption that facilitated that evil, it behooves us to favour a forensic accounting of who, what, when, and how over generalised slurs.
 
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