JamesWhitehead
Piffle Prospector
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I suspect we may get more details on this soon.Bid to brand throne claimant mad
An ex-policeman who claimed to be an heir to the throne prompted enquiries to see if he could be certified insane, previously secret files have revealed.
Shropshire's Anthony Hall made speeches in the 1930s on his claim as the 11th male descendent of Henry VIII.
He was repeatedly arrested for use of "scandalous language" after speeches in Birmingham's Bull Ring, and was fined and bound over to keep the peace.
Details of the bids to silence him were revealed publicly on Friday.
Mr Hall challenged King George V to fight him, in court, for the right to the crown with the loser having "his head lopped off".
In June 1931 he issued a pamphlet, Open Letter to King George V, setting out his claim and his intentions, as King, to write off the national debt, create full employment and ensure free health care for all.
He would do all this alone, having abolished the government, and without claiming taxes from his subjects for the upkeep of his family.
But files released by the National Archives show his activities inspired correspondence at the highest level.
Mr Hall was known to the police having resigned from the Shropshire force in 1927 in uncertain circumstances.
The King's Private Secretary, Sir Clive Wigram, wrote in 1931: "His Majesty quite agrees that a stop should be put to his effusions but feels that it might not look very well for a man who is obviously demented to get six months imprisonment.
"Would it not be possible to keep him under observation with a view to his final detention in an institution, without actually putting him in prison."
'Not insane'
But a letter from Sir John Anderson at the Home Office explained that while Mr Hall was "eccentric and wrong-headed, he is not so obviously demented or insane that he could be dealt with without recourse to court proceedings".
Palace hopes of Mr Hall being written off as a lunatic were dashed when Mr Hall was examined by Dr Walter R Jordan, an "expert in lunacy", and Dr Hamblin Smith, prison doctor at Birmingham Prison, the records show.
While both thought his ideas outlandish, neither man was able to find clear evidence of his insanity.
Dr Smith said that "although sanguine" Mr Hall's schemes for paying off the national debt "do not appear, so far as I have yet ascertained, to be insane".
The intervention of World War II put an end to his claim to the throne. He died, still a commoner, in 1947.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west ... 222426.stm
Commoner who tried to push King off the throne
By Jill Sherman
Documents show that a man claiming to be a descendant of Henry VIII besieged the Royal Family
A FORMER policeman provoked panic in Buckingham Palace in 1931 when he insisted that he had a superior claim to the throne than George V.
Anthony Hall argued that he was the 23rd descendent of Henry VIII and tried to convince mass crowds at a series of public meetings in the Birmingham Bull Ring that he was rightful heir to the throne. He started raising eyebrows in Whitehall and Buckingham Palace after making “scurrilous” attacks on the King, including a threat to shoot him.
George V, the Queen’s grandfather, was forced to intervene to make sure that Hall’s campaign came to an abrupt end, preferably in an asylum, while making it clear that the Palace’s involvement should never come to light.
But “King Anthony”, who was born in 1898, served in the police in Shropshire and died aged 49, thwarted attempts to prove that he was mad: two doctors gave him a clean bill of mental health.
The story unfolds in correspondence to the Home Office and the Palace released today at the National Archives. Hall traced his ancestry to Thomas Hall, the bastard son of Henry VIII, who died in 1534. He also claimed that James I of England was a changeling and could not have been the son of Mary, Queen of Scots, because he was “goggle-eyed”, his head was too large for his body, his tongue too large for his mouth and his legs were so rickety that he could not ride.
“Now we know definitely that this man was an impostor and I will therefore call him the missing link,” Hall said at one of his meetings, which drew crowds of up to 800.
“In fact he is the cause of all the trouble because having proved that he was an impostor, it is obvious that all the kings who claim to be descendents of his are not entitled to their jobs and are not of jobs royal.”
In an open letter to George V on February 2, 1931, Hall first made his claim to the throne and asked the King to relinquish the “Imperial Crown”.
The Chief Constable in Birmingham raised the issue in correspondence to the Home Office on July 6, 1931, suggesting: “It is quite evident that this man’s mind is not steadily balanced and in the ordinary course no notice would be taken of him; but his references to the King are highly offensive and it might be considered desirable to stop this man behaving as he is doing.”
Further letters to a senior civil servant at the Home Office revealed that Hall “would have no hesitation shooting him as he would a dog. The King was a German, and had no right to rule this Country.”
On July 13 Sir Clive Wigram, George V’s private secretary, became involved, suggesting that a stop should be put to Hall’s “effusions”. He suggested to the Home Office: “Would it not be possible to keep him under observation with a view to his final detention in an Institution, without actually putting him in prison?”
Further letters showed that a summons was issued on Hall, calling upon him to find sureties or face imprisonment. Sir Clive sent a letter approving the proceedings but adding “so long as it is quite understood that His Majesty is in no way responsible for the initiation of them”. Hall was arrested on July 24 after making another “scurrilous attack” on the King in the Bull Ring and was then examined by two doctors.
The files include two letters from the two doctors who refused to certify him as insane. Walter Jordan, who examined him on July 25, said he was “unable to get facts definitely indicative of unsoundness of mind”. He concluded that his claim to the kingship was a case of a sort. Hamblin Smith, a prison doctor, said that he was also unable to certify Hall.
Hall was later found guilty of disturbance of the peace and fined £10.
Two weeks later, on August 12, Hall delivered his swansong in the Bull Ring before disappearing from Birmingham. “The police tried to get me certified insane and sent to prison for life,” he said. “Yes, without trial too . . . Well, people, I am going away for a while, but I shall be back later. Goodnight my friends, you may be my subjects one of these days.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 78,00.html
Hall, 33, was a former Shropshire police inspector who had served as an ambulance driver at the front in the First World War and been victim of a poison gas attack at Ypres.
He maintained that he was descended in a direct male line from Henry VIII, apparently through a secret son born to Anne Boleyn before she became the second of his six wives.
He regarded James I as an imposter and he was scornful of the claims to the throne of George V and his German ancestors.
As he attempted to rally support in Birmingham and West Bromwich he told his audiences, who numbered as many as 600, that he would have no hesitation "in shooting the King like a dog".
He added that the king was "of pure German descent and must have a skin as thick as a rhinoceros. He should have been kicked out in 1914 when the Kaiser decided to have a bid for the Crown of England.
"If the renowned King Henry VIII was here today and knew that £500,000 was given to German dukes, he would have King George working in his kitchen and would spit in his face."
King Anthony proposed to pay off the national debt while simultaneously building millions of homes for the working classes, providing free hospitals and dental treatment and electrifying the railways.
The houses would be of Tudor robustness and a stateliness fitting to the dignity of the first nation of the world. A serious effort would be made to popularise portrait painting.
A ministry of pleasure would revive public pageants and encourage the manly sports of wrestling and boxing.
It would be an offence to sell beer that was not made with pure malt and hops.
He told his audiences that he had been the first policeman in Shropshire to obtain a conviction on a fingerprint; he hoped to be the first policeman to become King; also to become the first policeman to cut off the King's head.
......
It was 75 years ago today that Birmingham magistrates threatened him with two months in prison with hard labour, and that was enough to dampen his desire to reign.
His wife Ethel divorced him in 1938 for desertion and he died in 1947, leaving no male heir.
He would do all this....without claiming taxes from his subjects.
Did he become policy director for the LibDems instead?A Times Journo said:...King Anthony proposed to pay off the national debt while simultaneously building millions of homes for the working classes, providing free hospitals and dental treatment and electrifying the railways.
The houses would be of Tudor robustness and a stateliness fitting to the dignity of the first nation of the world. A serious effort would be made to popularise portrait painting. (eh? Stu)
A ministry of pleasure would revive public pageants and encourage the manly sports of wrestling and boxing.
It would be an offence to sell beer that was not made with pure malt and hops.
Shropshire's Anthony Hall made speeches in the 1930s on his claim as the 11th male descendent of Henry VIII.
OldTimeRadio said:Shropshire's Anthony Hall made speeches in the 1930s on his claim as the 11th male descendent of Henry VIII.
By 1931, wouldn't there have been a minimum of HUNDREDS of 11th generation (plus or minus) male descendents of Henry VIII, not only in Britain but in the US and Canada as well?
littleblackduck said:1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16,384,...
OldTimeRadio said:You have to understand that the majority of European immigrants to the United States simply weren't interested in genealogy and counted their family lines from the date they arrived in the new land. Made it rough for later genealogists.
lemonpie3 said:That's why Irish Americans gave so much money to the IRA then.
Ronson8 said:Yep, intolerance by proxy.
lemonpie3 said:That's why Irish Americans gave so much money to the IRA then.
It's not so much because an irish-american protestant is descended from 'patriots' all though that might sometimes be the case - it's because sinn fein/IRA is a progressive organisation, it's not a racist one - they know that an irish american protestant has absolutely nothing to do with perpetuating the orange state. also republicanism has a proud history of protestant involvement that can be traced back to wolfe tone and the united irish men. the IRA is not against protestants but against british rule in ireland and those who seek to defend it.OldTimeRadio said:But it's also simplistic to make the "troubles" a strictly Protestant-Catholic issue.
I've met Irish-Protestant-AMERICANS who've hung out for years in IRA/Catholic pubs in Northern Ireland, "and never have to pay for a drink."
"Of course they know that I'm a Protestant," one of them told me. "But they ALSO know that I'm a American and the direct descendant of those patriots who chased the British right out of Massachusetts. And do I ever have a fund of stories about American Colonists fighting the British!"
Jersey man claims royal parentage
A 51-year-old man from Jersey is trying to prove he is the illegitimate son of Princess Margaret, making him 12th in line to the throne.
Robert Brown is asking the High Court in London for access to the wills of the Queen Mother and Princess Margaret.
In a summons, he cites the Queen, the Attorney General and the executors of the wills of the Queen Mother and Princess Margaret as defendants.
The Queen and her representatives have declined to comment about the case.
Succession rights
Mr Brown has also tried, unsuccessfully, to get information from the Department for Constitutional Affairs as well as the Prime Minister's and Cabinet Office.
He claims the case raises the major constitutional issue of the rights of illegitimate children in the line of succession.
If Mr Brown was the son of the late Princess Margaret, he could become 12th in line to the throne - between Zara Phillips and Princess Margaret's only son Viscount Linley.
Mr Brown insists there is a public interest issue on the grounds of openness and consistency and says he would not object to the wills being made public, if they had once been made private to protect an illegitimate child.
It is not known when it will go before the High Court's Probate Division.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe ... 280732.stm
Royal-watchers speculated that Harry's venture into the Queensland bush last year was part of his journey towards manhood - that blokey Nirvana where Blunnies and RMs rule and even visitors, like Premier Peter Beattie, sport an Akubra to reassure country folks they might be out of sight but not always out of mind. Well, we've got news for Harry - Michael Abney-Hastings of Jerilderie beat him to the bush around 40 years ago and ended up doing what real men do - driving a fork lift and enjoying a beer and pie with the lads down at the footy club.
If, having inched closer to a manhood that appears to elude many male Royals, Harry had opted to remain here for a while, unlike Councillor Michael of Jerilderie Shire Council, population 1908 souls and famous only for being the site of Ned Kelly's last heist, Harry wouldn't have struggled to make ends meet. The job offers for young Harry rolled in and he was even touted by one of Her Majesty's Queensland Ministers as just the chap to slip into an ambassadorial role for our beef industry.
No such offers for Michael, 14th Earl of Loudoun (a title in the Peerage of Scotland created in 1633), widow of Noelene, descended of the last of the Plantagenet Kings of England, Richard II, who arrived in Australia as Lord Mauchline (or more correctly Lord Tarrinzean and Mauchline, also created in 1633) after the usual British public school education to try his hand as a jackaroo. According to one story, aired on ABC TV last month, this was to have been Michael's 'gap year' before moving back to the Mother Country and on to other things. According to another, he arrived as part of the Big Brother Movement, which arranged for boys and men of solid British stock to migrate to the end of Empire to ensure the soundness of the Empire line.
JamesWhitehead said:On a related page, the author shares with us his somewhat unconventional views about Christ
OldTimeRadio said:I keep a special file entitled "Ravings" and just the other day was bemoaning the fact that I'd added nothing new to it for many months.
Where do I sign? If one of your forebears really managed to teach guard-dogs to play the violin, then you get my vote for King, for what that's worth.OldTimeRadio said:I'm sorely tempted to formulate and publish my own claims to the British throne.
Yes, I realize that my ancestors (on both sides) were almost all Bavarian farmers. The one exception I know of was an Alsatian violin teacher named Emil Saur...
I STILL think I could make a case as strong as some of these other guys!