Saved From Harm

[Fanari_Lloyd]

I am not really sure where this belongs - I did see a Guardian Angels thread, but it did not really seem to fit, or there may be other threads. Please, Mods, don't hesitate to move it.

I remember a few weeks after 9/11 reading that on an average work day there should have been more people in the WTC than there was. I don't know if this is true, although I have come across snippets over the years of people who worked there deciding not to go to work, or getting briefly ill, and thereby surviving the horror of the attack. I have certainly heard many stories about people deciding not to go on aircraft that later crashed, or on trains, or to certain places, and avoiding accidents or death. I've heard a lot of first-hand accounts of people saying they've avoided accidents or worse.

I wondered if any-one on FT had experienced this, anything from a strong intuitive feeling they should not go somewhere, or do something, to circumstances conspiring to ensure they didn't, and what you think about it.

My grandmother experienced this more than once, as has my mother. (As a little aside, my grandmother once went somewhere because she really had no choice - she was with some schoolchildren, and ignored the feeling that she should not go; this was back in the 30's, and she was attacked by a man that was being hunted for murder. The fact that a local was out walking, saw and the alleged murderer ran off, was, she said, what saved her from becoming a victim. My mother avoided a crippling car accident because my father got annoyed she was taking too long to get ready, and went without her. His leg was broken, but her injuries would have been far worse.

This 'warning' seems to be a pretty common occurrence, so do people think it's just coincidence, or those who escape these accidents or tragedies simply believe (after the fact) that they had some kind of warning -- or is there something else to it? Again, my grandmother once fell asleep leaving candles burning, which fell and set something alight, and heard my grandfather's voice shouting at her to wake up (he was away at the time). I've heard a fair amount of these stories, and would be very interested to hear more, and your opinions.
Thank-you.

 

[escargot]

When my youngest lived in Switzerland she met some nice Scandinavian people who invited her to spend xmas week with them in Thailand.

She was excited at first, but as the time drew near to book tickets she seemed to lose her enthusiasm. By about November she just didn't fancy it at all. I advised her to text them and say that she wasn't up to it.

This was 2004. If she'd gone, she'd have been on the beach when the Boxing Day tsunami hit Thailand. She never heard from her Scandinavian friends again.

 

[Fanari_Lloyd]

This was 2004. If she'd gone, she'd have been on the beach when the Boxing Day tsunami hit Thailand. She never heard from her Scandinavian friends again.

That's awful to think about. :cry: That would shake me to the core. It is a perfect example of that quote about 'great events casting a shadow before them,' as if it was so huge and horrendous (which it was) that something affected your daughter's consciousness some time before it happened.

 

[Spudrick68]

I've written this previously, but it may be worth repeating here. A bloke I used to work with told me that his dad used to be a miner. He said that at the end of the shift, they used to put their tools onto a conveyor belt to take them to the surface and take the lift. Although strictly forbidden they sometimes travelled on the conveyor belt because it was quicker.

At the end of one shift he was just going to step on the conveyor belt when the phone rang. Although he couldn't be bothered he knew he had to answer it. When he picked up the phone no one was on the other end of the line. At this point the conveyor belt snapped (it had never done so before). If he had been on it he would have been dead. He was convinced that it was his late father who had saved him.

 

[Cyclops]

My Dad, who died over ten years ago, was a heavy smoker, and the family cars all smelled strongly of cigarette smoke.

A few years ago, I was driving up to a fairly nasty junction in our village where I was going to join a main road; there's a sharp corner just before the junction, and I suppose I just wasn't concentrating, because I suddenly realised that the main road was really busy, and I was going far too fast to stop safely and wait to join it. I stuck my foot on the brake pedal, only to find it was already depressed; at the same time I smelt a really strong odour of cigarette smoke. I stopped in time.

It was so real I actually went on my way with a smile on my face; I could imagine my Dad's voice saying, "Now concentrate, you daft bat!"

 

[ChrisBoardman]

Whenever there is a tragedy like 9/11 or the tsunami, there will be always be people who were going to be there that did not go for some reason. A day off sick, didn't feel like going. To them it seems like some divine power but with billions of people on earth, all leading complex lives, these coincidences will happen.

 

[Fluttermoth]

I remembering reading (can't remember where now) of a study that looked at the numbers of passengers in trains that crashed, compared to the expected numbers of passengers on those routes, at those times of day, which found that there were, consistently, less passengers on those trains that were involved in accidents.

 

[Cherrybomb]

I have a little one of my own (I'm sure I've posted it before, but here goes).
I've been suffering with bi-polar disorder for many years, and at it's worst I've done some stupid things.
One day when I was having a really bad down time, I was walking down a street thinking about ending my life. I wasn't taking my meds and a lot of bad things had been going on & I couldn't face another day. When a young man walked up to me and said "Are you Gem? Are you off to meet a friend?" I didn't know this guy from Adam. He was tall and fairly handsome - IIRC - he was dressed kinda gothic and seemed really sure of himself. I, for some reason said yes I was. He then said "Yeh, well she said she'll be wearing a dog collar & outside the bank". With that he walked off. I had never seen him before or since. But after he walked away and I continued on my way I felt a surge of happiness. I didn't have any idea what he was talking about & he might have been a student or a drunk talking crap for all I know, but how did he know my name?
As I say I felt loads better and didn't harm myself in anyway for many months after that. For me, that random guy saved my life that day.

Another little one before I shut up. I was working in a Blockbuster video store (Glam huh?) in East London one Christmas, when my friend who was working with me said "I'd quiet, I'll go for a fag break" before she went from behind the till something made her stop. She kind of forgot what she was doing for a minute or two, I asked her if she was ok and she said that she was but something made her feel like she needed to stay there for a bit. As she spoke to me a guy ran in with a machete and robbed us, she pressed the silent alarm which I didn't know exsisted. He then got quite violent and was trying to attack us. It seemed like forever but within a minute or two the police were there helping us. If she had gone for her fag break I'd have been attacked by the guy, maybe even killed. What made her stop?

 

[Fanari_Lloyd]

These replies are really interesting. Thank-you.
I do understand that people must, by pure coincidence, avoid crashes, etc or disasters every single day, but hearing so many personal stories over the years, and reading more, I do wonder. Some 'warnings' do seem much more than that.

I've also read those statistics about the number of people travelling on trains that crash being less than average.

 

[Geedub]

I've also read those statistics about the number of people travelling on trains that crash being less than average.

I think I've heard the same thing said about plane crashes. Would be interesting to know if anyone has come across actual figures on this?

On the flip side of the discussion... my mother-in-law's inner voices/guardian angels/intuition are either misfiring or don't like her very much. Apparently after arriving at Zeebrugge too late to board the ferry she'd been booked on back in 1987 she'd spent a good ten minutes trying to change the port staff's minds and blag her way on board before watching the Herald of Free Enterprise leave without her. :shock: The rest, as they say, is history.

(Must... resist... making... mother-in-law jokes! )

 

[rynner2]

I am not really sure where this belongs - I did see a Guardian Angels thread, but it did not really seem to fit, or there may be other threads. Please, Mods, don't hesitate to move it.

In fact, there are FIVE guardian angel threads! Perhaps some compactification would not go amiss, Mods!

 

[Zilch5]

Well, I sort of had the opposite thing happen to me. A few years ago, a friend of mine was working in Hong Kong and invited me over. After much hesitation - I really wanted to go fishing in Darwin - I consented and went to Honkers instead.

I had a bad feeling from the onset - and while the trip went sort of alright (though a bit different than planned) - the aftermath was truly bad for me.

Wish I'd gone fishing instead... :cry:

 

[oldrover]

I remembering reading (can't remember where now) of a study that looked at the numbers of passengers in trains that crashed, compared to the expected numbers of passengers on those routes, at those times of day, which found that there were, consistently, less passengers on those trains that were involved in accidents.

Perhaps lighter trains skid more easily.

 

[Ringo]

These replies are really interesting. Thank-you.
I do understand that people must, by pure coincidence, avoid crashes, etc or disasters every single day, but hearing so many personal stories over the years, and reading more, I do wonder. Some 'warnings' do seem much more than that.

But what about the people who were, for example, in the WTC on 9/11 who don't usually work there? Delivery men, service guys, tourists etc. They were definitely in the wrong place at the wrong time. Where were their guardian angels?

I do, however, firmly believe that we as a species have a sixth sense - a kind of primeval instinct which notices things on a subconcious level and then sets the alarm bell ringing. We know something is wrong but don't know why. I have posted on a different thread about my own experiences.

Like that time Jim fixed it for me to be a nude model.

 

[Cherrybomb]

[quote="Ringo
Like that time Jim fixed it for me to be a nude model.

[/quote]

:lol:

 

[Fanari_Lloyd]

But what about the people who were, for example, in the WTC on 9/11 who don't usually work there? Delivery men, service guys, tourists etc. They were definitely in the wrong place at the wrong time. Where were their guardian angels?

I know a woman in NY, whose apartment then gave her an unrestricted view of the attacks and the aftermath. Prior to that she had been involved in talking to school children of immigrant workers, most of whose father's worked making deliveries (sandwiches and food, etc) to the WTC.
She was saying lately that some of these people are not officially recognized among the victims as they were illegals, and their families can't get closure. :cry: There is an organisation trying to help with this.

Many of these people sent a significant part of their earnings home; it was their sole source of income. Perhaps some did have strong feelings about working on that day, but if they didn't turn up for their job, well, there were plenty of other people who would fill their shoes.

I used to think of the WTC victims as being those who worked in the buildings, but yes, of course there were others.

I remember the Hungerford Massacre, and how many people, in the months that followed, told me they were 'almost' in Hungerford on that day, but for some reason or another were not. Coincidence or something else. And I do often wonder about people who don't (or cannot) avoid disasters, in Japan for instance, or the Asian Tsunami, or the victims of conflict, such as in Syria and Gaza.

 

[H2olilyus]

Another Tsunami

I knew someone from here in the States who was in Thailand to get married and who I thought of immediately when I heard about the Tsunami. He was working as a student teacher, met a nice girl and had almost his whole family together in Bangkok for the wedding. They all planned to spend most of that weekend in Phuket until for some strange reason the groom felt very strongly that the families should spend extra time getting to know one another, in fact, vehemently insisted on it. The guests were a little put out at him, but since he was the happy groom, they somewhat reluctantly gave in to his wishes. I say 'somewhat' because I've met his mom and brother and they are strong-minded characters, and it surprised me to hear that they gave in relatively easily. I asked what everyone's reaction was later in the day and he told me everyone spent the rest of the visit in stunned disbelief at their close call. Jason comes from a long line of clergymen. He is also a very easygoing chap and is always up for fun. Very uncharacteristic for him to squash plans for any outing!

 

[Fanari_Lloyd]

I asked what everyone's reaction was later in the day and he told me everyone spent the rest of the visit in stunned disbelief at their close call.

I would, and I'd have to question (after) why an easy-going person would dig their heels in if their antenna were not seriously twitching - and why it was.

I have wondered what I would do, and think that any feeling of warning would have to be extremely strong for me to take any notice of it, as I tend to brush such things off unless they're common sense, like not (in my younger days) taking a short cut from a pub down an unlit path, or some such thing.

 

[escargot]

I dunno, depends on how important the situation is. This morning I went to put on a necklace, then thought 'No, if I wear that for work today it might fall off and I'll lose it.' I left it at home.

What if I'd thought, 'If I go to work today I'll get knocked off my bike and killed? I'd still go in. Perhaps I'd look both ways and cross at the pelican though.

 

[Eve11]

Interesting thread.

I have thought about it before and decided to take it on trust that if I need a warning I would just know, and that if there was any uncertainty or if I hesitated to question myself about it, then it’s worry and not precognition.

Someone also said about where’s the Guardian Angels of those who wouldn’t normally be there but were. That is touching on the whole definition of fate really. Rather than seeing it as an event, or a death, that everyone needs to avoid at all costs, I tend to take the view if there is a pre program running, some are meant to be there, and some aren’t. Rather than just saving people from death, it’s more like moving chess pieces to make sure everyone is in the right place at the right time.
My view of fate is something like this: In a major event, some people are meant to die, some absolutely must not, some it’s not vital one way or another and that’s where luck gets involved, or the Chaos and the Order. I feel we are largely in charge of our own destinies in terms of free will, but fate comes in when it come down to what choices we are presented with in the first place. And, just occasionally, some things are fixed and unavoidable.
I feel very philosophical about it personally. I don’t duck my responsibilities to self determine my life through my choices, but I feel something as exceptional as say a terrorist bomb or a plane crash are probably pre set. If I was meant to die in one I can’t avoid it, if I’m not I won’t, which sometimes may involve a precognitive warning if all else fails. I view that as the Guardian Angels “tool of last resort”.

Saying that I do have a 9/11 related one myself. My best friend was travelling that year and had been in America for a while. She’d met some people in New York and extended her stay there. She was staying within sight of the twin towers. She was supposed to fly back in July, but rebooked for October. I felt really anxious about it. I actually said to her something like I wished she was back earlier, which is strong from me because I really don’t get into telling people what to do with their lives. Then suddenly out of the blue a few weeks later she called and said she woke up and just knew she wanted to come home, called the airline and got a cancellation for the next day. This was 14 days before 9/11.
Now there’s no reason to think she would have been in or even near the twin towers on that day, but who knows? She was staying quite close by so would have probably been near enough to be affected. She was at least saved the trauma of being in the city when it happened, and perhaps some health fallout from the dust.
Not dramatic I know, maybe just picking up on the potential energy of a dark event and wanting to be away from it? I’ve always quite liked the idea of major events, both good and bad, being able to send energy like a vibration both back and forward along timelines.
It was also very out of character for me to say anything, or even worry. This friend has travelled a lot over the years, and I mean on her own in some pretty lawless places in the world, and I’ve never lost sleep or even told her to be careful before or since. But I can’t tell you how much I wanted her out of New York that summer.
Of course there is also the possibility it was a coincidence and something on her own timeline that was the problem, like a psychopathic knifeman or out of control taxi mounting the pavement, and I have just always attributed it to 9/11 because of the timing.

I have also got a personal story that I was thinking of posting anyway but wasn’t sure where to put. It’s in this area, in fact “saved from harm” would be an apt enough title. I’ll post it later as I need to think about how to phrase it coherently

 

[Fanari_Lloyd]

I’ve always quite liked the idea of major events, both good and bad, being able to send energy like a vibration both back and forward along timelines

.

I rather like that idea, too.

These 'warnings', from the subconscious (or somewhere else) are something that crop up so often that I am very interested in hearing about them, (if people don't mind talking about them, of course). I would love to hear your account, Eve11.

Slightly tangentially, I did hear my grandmother shout beside me once, which cause my head to whip round and see (through the glass serving hatch) that the grill in the kitchen had caught fire, and the flames were reaching up toward the ceiling.
We didn't have a smoke detector back then, but I should have smelled the burning. I was seated in a high-backed chair facing the t.v., and the angle was such that the t.v. screen, which faced the kitchen, didn't reflect the fire because it was blocked by the chair.

Not that I was in any danger, as I and the dog could have ran out the back, but a house-fire would not have been good, even without loss of life.

Rather peremptorily, I heard my grandmother shout my name twice, as if to wake me from daydreaming. (Had the t.v. on but nose in a book and was just in a different world). Needless to say, my grandmother was not there; she had died several years prior. I don't remember thinking there was anything paranormal in it, but I was busy trying to do the old damp cloth thing. So, was it a part of me that did register there was a fire, and had to get through to me, who blanks the whole world out when reading and needs to be shouted at to snap back to reality, or something more?

 

[los_grandes_lutz]

August 1st 1982

I was living in Kenya and had gone out with my girlfriend to a club. The club was boring so we moved to another, in the city centre, where we knew we would find friends.

At 3am, I suddenly got the urge to leave the club. I stood up and announced that we (my girlfriend and I) were leaving and if any of the friends there wanted a lift home, they would have to have to leave there and then with me. There was a lot of grumbling, some wanted to finish their drinks, but I said that they could get a free lift then or pay for a taxi later.

By right then, I meant that very minute.

They all agreed to leave, and we left the club a few minutes after 3. AT 3:15 the Air Force, who were attempting a coup d'etat arrived in the city centre, and as the clubs were the only place open at that hour went into them.

Those who were still in the clubs were left lying on the dance floor as drunk and armed Air Force personnel watched over them, until they were rescued by the Army the following lunchtime.

I don't know why I got the urge to want to leave so suddenly, but earlier that evening I had commented that there seemed to be fewer cars about.

 

[Cherrybomb]

Wow, some really good stories on here!

 

[Eve11]

Sorry I forgot I was supposed to be coming back to this thread, I didn’t mean to leave it dangling. Anyway, this is my story, I think of it as either a slightly unconventional Guardian Angel, the universe (or my own mind) having a bit of a laugh, or perhaps just some interesting and coincidental psychology.

A few years ago I was driving my usual commute which involves a long section of rural single track lane. It was the first serious rainfall of autumn after a dry spell and even though the rain had eased to a light drizzle, the lanes were slick with field run off after a torrential night, a mixture of water and mud mainly. I was taking it steady, and as I rounded a bend there was a 4x4, not too close, but I did the stupid thing (which I put down to the first time that season in those conditions) and braked hard. I then aquaplaned along the slick surface, but still thankfully came to a halt about 10ft short of impact. I have had much closer calls on that road, but nonetheless I would guess my adrenaline was up a bit, and I was quite mad at myself for making such a basic mistake.

Anyway, about 500 yards after I passed the 4x4 I looked in the mirror and stood in the road behind me was a large, and I mean massive, black dog. It was broad daylight btw, albeit overcast. This dog I can say for certain from knowing the road, its width, hedge height etc like my own back garden, was about the same height as the biggest Great Dane, but longer. It was silky jet black, shaped like an Alsatian with a very long nose and pricked ears, and a completely smooth, sleek coat. It was absolutely still, looked very alert, and was side on and staring after me. I took several long looks, half not believing it could be there, and it must have been in sight for about 20 seconds as I drove very slowly, most of the time looking at it, before the road bent again. It didn’t move and didn’t take its eyes off me. I felt no sense of threat, but I “knew” this was not a normal dog. It felt calm and impassive. I actually thought: “I cannot believe I’m seeing a black dog”, thinking what a cliché it was. I’m even in the Westcountry, but not near to any of Black Dog’s traditional hunting grounds. The eyes were not glowing, or even red that I could see.

As I was processing what I can only describe as a kind of chant started running in my head apparently related to the near miss just before I saw the dog. The words were: “steer don’t brake, steer don’t brake”, over and over.

About a mile further on there’s a particularly nasty blind bend. The road is by this point 2 lanes again, but cars often cut the bend and cross the central line. I drove around slowly, and as I did several things happened at once. Firstly, the “chant” shouted “STEER DON’T BRAKE!!!” like someone sat next to me had put a mega phone to my ear, just as I registered a large transit hurtling towards me well across the central line at 40-50mph, as I also realised it was too late to avoid impact and he wasn’t even swerving or braking, and I immediately steered into the hedge, all in the space of the legendary split second. The van still took out the driver side of my car, the front wing, mirror, scraped a hell of a groove into the drivers door, and all along that side, but no front on impact. I hadn’t even touched my brakes, and I realised as I sat in the hedge if I had it would have been a head on even without the slick conditions. I was unhurt, if shaken, but what a heavy work van going at that speed head on into my side of a little old hatchback would have done to me I can only speculate. It still blows my mind a bit that whatever happened was strong enough to totally take out the normally overriding impulse to brake in an emergency situation in a car, even if you swerve. My foot didn’t even move to the brake, even though I effectively turned into a hedge.

For a bit of background, and why I think of it as a sort of joke, is the two things I always had the biggest phobia of is the idea of seeing something in my rear view mirror/out the back of a car, to the extent I basically don’t drive at night other than in an emergency. And Black Dogs. They were absolutely the stuff of my childhood nightmares, and if you had described the scenario of seeing a large and apparently supernatural black dog in my rear view mirror on an empty country lane I would imagine I would nearly die of fright, daylight or not.
Put this together, and I’m just not sure how to categorize the whole experience.
It could, of course, have been a hallucination bought on by adrenaline, understandably triggering an associated mantra about safe driving, coincidently saving me a few minutes later.
But even if it was a purely psychological series of events, why a black dog? Why did a thing of nightmares, and a combination of events almost hand picked to scare me, appear so benignly? Why would my mind chose those things, instead of something to reassure itself? Even now when I think about it I’m not the least unsettled by it (I am over a few other “supernatural” type events I’ve experienced). In fact remembering it makes me feel really calm and at peace.
Even if I jump to another explanation, a brief precognitive episode triggered by my heightened state, it still doesn’t answer why the hell my head would conjure a black dog of all things as a messenger?
And, if this was an actual supernatural entity that popped by to give me a friendly warning, then is there any kind of precedent for this? The only thing I can come up with that’s close is obviously “Guardian Angel” stories. And the only image I can find that’s close to the dog I saw is Anubis, the head shape was more or less spot on, but what would an Egyptian God be doing in a Westcountry back lane?

Traditional UK “Black Dogs” seem to be described as largely monstrous, shaggy, the glowing eye thing, and accompanied by feelings of fear. Though this was, without doubt, a Black Dog. Maybe Shaggy Dog's nicer better groomed brother? 8)

 

[Cherrybomb]

:shock: Have you seen the dog since?? Glad to hear you weren't hurt in that accident, it could have been really nasty.

On a slightly different note, I've often thought about, what if when I've been invited to go somewhere and something tells me not too, so I don't but nothing "big" happens to the friends that do go. maybe if I was there the big event (bad or good) would have happend? (Sorry if that didn't make sense I'm typing out loud tbh! )

 

[Fanari_Lloyd]

Wow, los_grandes_lutz, and Eve11, thank-you for taking the time to type out those stories.

I am absolutely gobsmacked by your tale, Eve.
:shock:
I did read, years ago, that not all of Britain's 'black dogs' were seen as perilous. I read an account of one walking alongside a man as if guarding him, and no harm came to the chap after. And aren't they associated with lanes, borders, etc, such as Peddar's Way, which has had Black Dog sightings along its length.

(They're one of the first 'Fortean' phenomenon I ever read about, too apart from ghosts).

 

[Eve11]

:shock: Have you seen the dog since?? Glad to hear you weren't hurt in that accident, it could have been really nasty.

No, not a sign of it before or since. And it is the only time I've ever seen a dog in strange enough circumstances to be considered potentially supernatural.

I also think there's something in what you said about an event not happening if you're not there - all our choices change so much that it's perfectly plausible that it sometimes happens like that. Always a danger of that thought paralysing decision making though. I ignore worry thoughts as opposed to compulsion. If fear alone stops me from acting then I get on and do it. Fear (as opposed to a genuine primeval fight or flight instinct which is very physical) is deceitful and negative, and I really, really believe that true precognition is a lot calmer, less emotional, because it's certainty. You just know. If that makes sense.

But it comes back to timelines again - a shift to a different timeline, a different potential future, from the point the decision is made. Or, in a universe of infinite parallels, creates 2 new ones, the one you follow, and somewhere another version of you made a different choice and so a new parallel is born.

 

[Iris]

I thought of Anubis when I read your description of the dog.
In the Way of Cartouche by Murry Hope it says "Navigation is covered by Anubis at this level:finding one's way by land sea and air,and also extricating oneself from difficult situations.
Anubis is classified as a moveable influence meaning that wherever it falls motion,movement or action is on it's way."

 

[GNC]

I thought of Anubis when I read your description of the dog.

Or Rin Tin Tin (the description doesn't match Lassie). Maybe a Rescued by Rover for the 2000s!

 

[Monstrosa]

Black Dogs are Guardians and it could have been that he was protecting his patch and just didn't want your ghost on it.