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School Is Prison

G

guestus

Gone But Not Forgotten
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Jun 8, 2010
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Just google that, "school is prison" and you'll find a whooooole bunch of articles about it. There's even one in psychology today. I once read a book, from a library, that was like a historical book, not even a conspiracy book, on how schools are basically like prisons. Unfortunately it was like 7 years ago and I don't remember what it said. I perosnally became worried when they started announcing "we are your family" on the speakers system...cult, anyone?
 
Two main problems in school:

1. Incompetent teachers who are never sacked.

2. "Students" who have no interest in learning and just want to disrupt the class.

Between them they make school into a prison hell.
 
I knew kids who were "gifted" and got good marks..but interrupted class at the same time.
The school is prison thing talks more about the official stracture of school and how it's designed as a prison. Sorry for not elaborating. For example the buildings are literally based on how prison's look like. Students have to wear ID's like prisoners, I even just read an article of a school somewhere that makes students who disobey rules wear a prison uniform.
I remember in elemantry school having to walk in line from class to class, not talking to each other, and moving at a specific pace. That is ridiculous...we were old enough to walk ourselves. Of course all schools are a bit different. I remember one of the teachers screaming at some student because he made a sound while yawning, or for laughing, etc. There aren't horrible examples, they're just...strange. Anyone who likes school has the stockholm syndrome :p I know because I had it!
 
I know since I left in 87 that a lot of schools have a quite disturbing amount of security these days, i'm not entirely clear for who's protection... my ex used to teach music as a parapathetic teacher and compared it to visiting someone on remand!

Come to think of it, i'm at a local college one day a week atm that mostly takes 16-18 year olds and a few adult classes, and the security is quite formidable. That siad, the 16-18 year old there seem to have a quite aggressive slant to them that I don;t remember being the case even 10 years ago.
 
BlackRiverFalls said:
I know since I left in 87 that a lot of schools have a quite disturbing amount of security these days, i'm not entirely clear for who's protection... my ex used to teach music as a parapathetic teacher and compared it to visiting someone on remand!

Come to think of it, i'm at a local college one day a week atm that mostly takes 16-18 year olds and a few adult classes, and the security is quite formidable. That siad, the 16-18 year old there seem to have a quite aggressive slant to them that I don;t remember being the case even 10 years ago.
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When I was at school, I don't remember kids carrying weapons. Maybe a few did, but generally you didn't hear of much trouble.
I think things have changed a lot at schools. Kids are generally much more aggressive.
 
I think by and large its because of the expensive equitment they have these days.

Certainly at my college the `security` spend most of their time portering and DIY

there have been bike thefts though.

But I would never send my kids to school, too much of their valuable time spent in doing nothing

(not that I will ever have kids)
 
I was sent to a prison (as an observer not an inmate) for a while a year or so ago, halfway through I was sent to a primary school for a week. They were quite different. The children were much harder to handle. They were faster, cleverer and better organised.
 
I went to school in the late 1940's to the 1950's, it was pretty grim, not much fun and I don't suppose it's much different today.
In the few years leading up to my retirement I found myself on the other side, teaching at college and I must admit that I did enjoy it.
There must be some profundity here but I'm dammed if I know what it is

I've always been of the opinion that my own education was an utter waste of time. But, they did teach me to read and write and so I'm grateful for that.
Kids are imprisoned from four/five to sixteen to keep them off the streets. Their need for life skills could be taught in just a few months and they could then specialise as they see fit.
 
Ghostisfort said:
I've always been of the opinion that my own education was an utter waste of time. But, they did teach me to read and write and so I'm grateful for that.
Kids are imprisoned from four/five to sixteen to keep them off the streets. Their need for life skills could be taught in just a few months and they could then specialise as they see fit.
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I've often thought that my own education was a waste of time too.
Everything I was taught in school and college was of no use to me at all in anything I have done for a living.
As for reading and writing - well, I didn't learn it at school, because I am very short-sighted. My next door neighbour taught me how to read in a day, because I could actually see the words close up!
So I agree, anything that kids really need to know can be taught in a matter of months.
 
I think by and large its because of the expensive equitment they have these days.
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Probably, now that you mention it.

I can remember the 380Z getting nicked from my school, and turning up in a 6th formers bedroom a few weeks later. :lol:
 
BlackRiverFalls said:
I think by and large its because of the expensive equitment they have these days.
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Probably, now that you mention it.

I can remember the 380Z getting nicked from my school, and turning up in a 6th formers bedroom a few weeks later. :lol:
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I remember that! It was the first computer I ever saw close up.
When I saw it, I thought "that's the future".
It's what inspired me to go into the software industry.
 
Same here, unless you sort of count the old Honeywell(?) terminal they had sat around which had sort of turned into furniture.

Didn't 380Z have an 'ignition' like a car, where you had to put a key in and turn it to switch it on? :lol:
 
Actually, I may have seen a Commadore Pet a little earlier, but never got to use it.
 
BlackRiverFalls said:
Same here, unless you sort of count the old Honeywell(?) terminal they had sat around which had sort of turned into furniture.

Didn't 380Z have an 'ignition' like a car, where you had to put a key in and turn it to switch it on? :lol:
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Odd's blazes! Did we go to the same school?
My school had a really old terminal sitting around that never got used for anything.
I think it was a Honeywell.
We 6th formers turned it on to type out silly messages so they got printed on the paper.

The guy I saw using the 380Z (Neil Raine) went on to become a famous computer games pioneer... I worked with him briefly when I was at ARM, years later. Sadly he's dead now.
 
Maybe just standard issue for schools at that time, Honeywell terminal, 380Z then BBC micro? I think it was Sun workstations after that, but that's after my time.
 
Mythopoeika said:
I've often thought that my own education was a waste of time too.
Everything I was taught in school and college was of no use to me at all in anything I have done for a living.
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No education is a waste of time. If you're talking about stuff useful in earning a living, you're talking about training, not education.

Education works with a much broader brush - it's useful for expanding your mind and giving it the flexibilty to respond to a wide range of situations.

As a one-time school-teacher, it annoyed me how often this 'critique' came up. It's so narrow-minded! If you want to be trained for a job, do an apprenticeship.

One of the major benefits of education is to expose school-kids to the wide range of human experience and possibilities, so that they can then better select the things that are best and most interesting for them. Young kids rarely have any idea what they want to do. (Unlike one pupil of mine who was going to be a sign-writer "like his dad". I just hope the digital revolution hasn't rendered that trade extinct....)
 
School leavers lacking basic skills, bosses group says
By Hannah Richardson, BBC News education reporter

Too many young people are leaving school without adequate basic skills, a survey of business leaders suggests.
More than four out of 10 are unhappy with youngsters' use of English, while 35% bemoan their numeracy skills.

The annual study of 566 UK employers for the Confederation of British Industry also heralds a shortage of high-skilled employees, particularly in maths and science.
The government said the CBI was right to raise concerns over basic skills.

The organisation's annual education and skills survey also suggests that many employers (44%) have had to invest in remedial training for school and college leavers.
Despite the claims, last year's GCSE results were the highest on record with seven out of 10 entries being awarded a grade C or above.

Companies also said young people lacked important employability skills.
Some 69% complained about inadequate business and customer awareness and 55% highlighted poor self-management skills.

The survey also highlighted a lack of available skilled staff. Some 43% were unable to find science, technology, engineering and maths specialists (Stem). And 53% predicted problems in finding such staff in the future.

Two-thirds thought the government should tackle these shortages by doing more to promote maths and science in schools and supporting Stem-related apprenticeships.

John Cridland, director general of the CBI, said: "It's alarming that a significant number of employers have concerns about the basic skills of school and college leavers.
"Companies do not expect schools and colleges to produce 'job-ready' young people, but having a solid foundation in basic skills such as literacy and numeracy is fundamental for work."

On the Stem shortage, he added: "With UK businesses looking to win a larger share of global markets as we re-balance the economy, the skills bar is constantly being raised by international competition.
"Higher-skilled employees, especially in science, technology, engineering and maths will be some of the most in demand.
"The government must improve the take-up of science and maths in schools and support the development of Stem apprenticeship programmes so that employers are able to recruit the right people to drive growth."

etc...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-13310246
 
CCTV use in schools criticised
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre ... ing18.html
ELAINE EDWARDS

Mon, May 30, 2011

A secondary school in Co Kildare was ordered to remove monitoring cameras from student toilets after parents made a complaint to the Data Protection Commissioner.

The case is outlined in the commissioner's annual report for 2010, published today. It notes that use of CCTV continues to give rise to regular complaints.

Cameras were installed in the student toilets, and the students “objected to this intrusiveness”, the report says. “When their concerns were dismissed, they walked out of the school in protest.” As the cameras were operating in contravention of the Data Protection Acts, the commissioner ordered their immediate removal.

Separately, a primary school in Co Mayo deployed CCTV cameras both inside and outside the premises. The commissioner said that in this case, the school installed the system “without considering the issues it raised and without developing policies to address those issues”. Parents were “justifiably concerned” and made representations to the commissioner's office.

“Our investigation revealed that the requirements of the Data Protection Acts had not been met, and we ordered the system to be switched off,” the report said.

A number of schools were targeted for audits last year, usually in response to complaints about CCTV.

The commissioner said that during such audits, schools must provide a “convincing justification for the use of every camera in and around its premises”.

“Where a school is unable to justify the use of particular cameras, they will be ordered to remove them. CCTV cameras are not a substitute for supervision, and they should not be used for that purpose.”

The commissioner said complaints about CCTV were not confined to students. “On several occasions, school staff complained to our office about the use of CCTV to review their movements.”

The commissioner said that under the Data Protection Acts, “staff monitoring via CCTV is rarely proportionate”.

“We should all recall that CCTV footage, while certainly having a useful purpose in a range of circumstances, is an intrusion into our personal space and therefore it is appropriate to question the justification for its installation in a range of circumstances.

“Particularly in the workplace and in schools, where employees and students can perhaps not feel able to voice their concerns, privacy rights are retained. and there is a very high bar to justify any recourse to the use of CCTV systems.”

The annual report emphasises the need for “accountability on the part of public and private sector organisations for the personal data entrusted to them”.

It contains as an annex the outcome of a special investigation into the handling of claims data in the insurance sector's Insurance Link system, which revealed “significant breaches” of data protection laws.

The commissioner's office also received complaints from members of the public about the collection of excessive personal data by financial institutions, which it said were “inappropriately justified as required to satisfy anti-money laundering obligations”.

Funding for the Data Protection Commissioner's office was reduced by some 20 per cent last year from just over €1.8 million in 2009 to just under €1.5 million.
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“On several occasions, school staff complained to our office about the use of CCTV to review their movements.”


Those bog-cameras have zoom lenses? :shock:


Cameras in the toilets sound a horrible breach of privacy. I do know of places where they are sited to monitor traffic of pupils into the toilets, always a hot-bed of smoking, bullying and vandalism.

Cameras in the classroom are usually deplored by the unions; there is a culture in some establishments of scapegoating teachers instead of tackling the chaotic element in the cohort. Where I have encountered them, they seem to be seldom used. I have never known video evidence to be presented to establish guilt or innocence in those cases where pupils deny knowledge of disruptions. Nor have I heard of corridor cameras used to nab internal truants or thieves.

I can't say the surveillance society is a healthy model but given the low-life in some schools, cameras are usually justified on the grounds of protecting the pupils from the cowardly, random violence of their peers. I'm sure they deter opportunistic acts some of the time but it does not take long for a culture of bluff to be detected, if a victim calls for evidence which was never recorded. :(

edit, 11:30 pm: not sure why nab was written as knab. Freudian knob analogy? Though bog-wall knob is usually nob. Best stop digging. :?
 
I can understand the objection to CCTV in the loos.

However, I can't understand the teachers' objections to CCTV in the classrooms and corridors - surely it has its uses in cases where teachers are being falsely accused of something?
 
However, I can't understand the teachers' objections to CCTV in the classrooms and corridors - surely it has its uses in cases where teachers are being falsely accused of something?
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It probably would... on the other hand would you want to be filmed constantly while you were at work? I'm not a fan of this one nation under CCTV way of looking at the world... people by and large should be trusted to live their lives without being under constant surveillance.
 
I think we've already passed the point where our feelings about being filmed are respected.
The teachers are going to have to accept that its only a matter of time before schools enforce CCTV, as do the rest of us.
On the positive side, because so much CCTV is used, most of it goes unmonitored and unwatched.
 
Kondoru said:
And so therefore a waste of money
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Not really. They can come in handy when something bad happens.
 
Oh so many things I want to say on this topic... but I will try really hard not to rant and just say two things - about security and about grades.

Starting with the security issue in schools today (and staying right on topic) I have to say that the school at which I work as a secondary teacher of English does not have a security fence, does not lock classrooms (or toilets!) and the site is more or less permanently open for people to walk their dogs or play on the fields. This is an ordinary school in an ordinary, fairly rural/suburban area. We don't wear security tags and on any normal day you can always see at least one visitor or parent on their way somewhere. So far this does not sound very much like a prison to me.

Now, exam results... Firstly I've got to say that when they say this week in the news that A Level grades are up I wish that they would also report on the wide variety of different qualifications and courses there now are on offer to FE students. No one these days takes A Levels unless you 1) are "academically minded" and 2) pushed really hard by your teacher to do well and equipped with the skills to please the examiners. Therefore A Level results are much better today than they were, say, in the 90s when I and all my friends muddled through 3 A Levels each, did hardly any work and got average grades.
 
guestus said:
I remember in elemantry school having to walk in line from class to class, not talking to each other, and moving at a specific pace. That is ridiculous...we were old enough to walk ourselves.
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Thats for the other students in the other classes who dont need to hear your class roar by like a herd of wild animals. Hell I think the leaving quietly lesson is one the patrons in the bar across the street from me could use now.
Everything the education system did was mostly for your own good, or so the teachers would not go crazy with 25 little monsters.
 
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