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Social & moral rules

Hospitaller

Ephemeral Spectre
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Not 100% Fortean, granted, but I'm intrigued by this gem of data:

...social and moral rules ... can be traced to the courtly behaviour of aristocrats in the courts of Renaissance Europe. From their inception, manners and 'civilite' served to manipulate and deceive others, rather than safeguard their interests

... sounds fascinating, can anyone enlighten me further?
 
Sounds a bit daft - I would've thought a framework for such things was in place well before then - assuming you mean the UK/Europe... And such things change with the times, of course.
 
Just out of interest, where did the quote come from?
 
Brown, B., Peter, N., Crawford, P. & Lewis, A. (1996) Interaction, language and the "narrative turn" in psychotherapy and psychiatry. Social Science and Medicine, 43(11) 1569 - 1578.
 
The age of manners started way back then with the French courts with the beautiful widow of William IX of Aquitaine, I believe, when the ideal woman had a 'back like a rabbit's' etc and everyone adored her and did great deeds in her honour and she was chaste and pure and the men were lusty and brave etc.

Manners were a way of sorting the wheat from the chaff- just like today. Jongleurs or Minstrels played songs and read poetry written by troubadours that spread the word through France - it was not written in Latin so indicating it's French origins.

All formal arrangements such as these new manners were put into place and it started the criticism of other countries Royal Courts as 'barbarous' and 'crude'. The French Courts were forever after held up by most as the epitome of elegance and taste.

The tale of King Arthur or Laucelot is seen in France around 1230 but its roots are earlier (origins of story are uncertain according to my sources right here but others might post answers for you later)

Chaucer harked back to this era of manners and courtly love in some of his Canterbury Tales a hundred years or so after, I forget which one talks specifically about these matters but a decent A Level teacher will enlighten you.

Elizabethan England aspired to this French ideal also when Elizabeth found herself much in the same position of William IX's widow. All these sentiments are reflected in Shakespearean works written at that time and later into James' era - when some said barbarous manners returned to the Court once more!!

In Florence Machiavelli was writing 'The Prince' which was spread far and wide which you may find quite interesting to study and was a coda for behavioural matters at court, etc.

Romanticism then harked back to the Aquitaine Courts standards and it became quite fashionable amongst many of the younger generation.

And, well, the Georgians just went mad with it! They took it as far back to its original roots as it could go with every gesture meaning 'something vital' with eyes, looks, fans, etc. You could barely sneeze without getting yourself engaged.

The Victorian age only modified it and cleaned it up a bit and it's ideals were still affecting the modern age well into the twentieth century last time I looked.

The age of sense and sensibility, as it were. There's a lot to be said for it. I don't know much about pre-Aquitaine. It's not called the Dark Ages for nothing!;) Good luck if you're studying it. If not, then sorry to have bored you rigid:err:
 
hospitaller said:
Not 100% Fortean, granted, but I'm intrigued by this gem of data:



... sounds fascinating, can anyone enlighten me further?

don't know about that but western ideas of Love spring from courtly tradition wich was (it has been said) invented by Monks to stop Knights raping and killing once they got back from...well raping and killing.
 
Castelione's (misspelt?) The Courtier is the palce to go for a first hand acount of courtly manners.

It was said by James Joyce's brother that after he'd read Castelione he was 'alot more polite but alot less nice.' :D
 
Chant said:
Chaucer harked back to this era of manners and courtly love in some of his Canterbury Tales a hundred years or so after, I forget which one talks specifically about these matters but a decent A Level teacher will enlighten you.
Not an A Level teacher (yet), but..it was the Knight's Tale. Bear in mind, however, that this tale is satirical: most Knights of that period were mercenaries, who went on Crusades in the belief that there were untold riches in the Holy Land. Religion didn't come into it - bump off a few Saracens, come home with a sackful of loot and a knighthood was yours (esp as half of what you looted went to the crown).

The Knight's Tale overall should be read in a sarcastic tone of voice - Chaucer was a diplomat, well acquainted with courtly machinations, and consequently knew damn well how the honours system worked - knighthoods could easily be bought for a small-ish donation. Chaucer employs the Theseus excerpt as the tale the Knight tells as a contrast: Theseus an honourable and pure hero, the knight that alludes to him a freeloader with a bought title. This info had to be couched in a subtle manner - our Geoff could have lost his head in a mysterious accident one dark (k)night otherwise - but the clues are all there.

I can expand on all of this if you want, but it'll have to wait til next week as my resources are all elsewehere ATM :).
 
I'd say that social rules do indeed spring from the sources listed above.

Moral rules however, spring from one's definitions of right and wrong actions.

These are two things that are coincidental only at the point at which the society in question chooses to enforce moral rules in their code of socially acceptable behaviours.
 
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