• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Spot the fake....

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

Anonymous

Guest
I was looking at a “paranormal” site today and noticed something in a frame grab of the video of the “ghost”. I was wondering if anyone else can spot it. It is the first picture of what he says is a ghost of a boy in the hallway. He oh so conveniently uses the picture that is furthest away from the camera. However, if you grab a picture of the video when it is much closer and put it in photoshop you might notice what I did.

http://www.phantomsinthedark.com/phantomsinthedark/id15.html

"images courtesy of flying orb - http://www.phantomsinthedark.com"

Do you think this is legit or fake
 
Don't have the how-to at the moment.... can someone help?

cheers, Kath
 
I can't see it either but i have to admit I'm not looking too closely, I'm alone in the house and I'm easily spooked.
 
Here is a hint....Its not so much the image it's self but the area around the image that gives it away.
 
I will post a picture tomorow outlining what it is that gives it away as a fake.

Needless to say that the author didnt have many "nice" things to say to me when I pointed out his deception.
 
when we get there can you post it?

is your "discussion" up anywhere? not suggesting you post /that/ of course! LOL

Kath
 
I love this kind of stuff, the debunking of pictures, theories, stories always fascinates me.

Welcome to the board anyway, glad to have you here!
 
On Reflection, I Wooden Be Surprised if...

It's less 'fake', more auto-suggestion and a little bit of artistic licence, this one.

If you look closely, you may be able to see a little face at the end of this sentence. ;)

What do you think? :p
 
If you watch the video from the site it can quite clearly be seen as light flare from reflections on the glass panels in the bannister IMHO.
 
Yep, that's my verdict, too - not necessarily a deliberate fake, but not a ghost photo either.

He says he wants opinions at the bottom of the page - wonder if he knows to look on here?
 
Ditto. Looks like the light was mounted on top of the camera. As the camera ultimately moves to the left, so the image (reflected glare) narrows and vanishes.
 
Yea, that’s pretty much it. I have been way too busy to post up the pictures I outlined but its obviously a light source making the image. What really gave it way for me is i copied a frame from the video and took it into PhotoShop to do my usual enhancements. Its then that I noticed that there is a railing on the left hand side that is casting shadows away from the “ghost”. I drew a line from the top of the shadow past it and realized that if you did that to all the rail shadows they show you where the light was placed where they all intersect. Plus the fact that you can actually see a reflection of the light source in the glass to the right hand side of the frame. I would have to classify this as a hoax however because when I contacted the guy through his web site he was pretty insistent that I was some kind of idiot and the photo was exactly what he said it was. Therefor he is claiming it is something its not....Hence, it is a hoax.
 
Normally I would not waste time on a juvenile delinquent. I deduce that "gang-whatever" falls into this catagory due to the childish, arrogant demeanor exhibited in his email to me accusing me of creating a hoax using a placed light source in the picture in question. His attitude virtually screamed "Notice me, notice me, I am a nobody desperate for attention." He even included a childish taunt daring me to come to this board. I still stand by my answer to him that, "My time is too precious to waste on fools." Now that a crime has been committed by "gang-whatever" he has succeeded in getting my attention.

Whether "gangprobed" is a delinquent, or an adult, no longer matters. The theft of copyrighted material, the altering of copyrighted material, and the illegal reposting of stolen copyrighted material on his site (and this one), is a crime. "Gangprobed" your illegal activities have been reported to the Fortean Times and to the internet provider hosting your website- have a nice day. I will decide later if I will choose to get "nasty" and pursue this further through the authorities and the legal system.

I started my research as a cast-iron cynic that denounced everything posted on the web as "photoshop constructs". I repeatedly told my friends to laugh at those who claimed to be posting paranormal pictures and that I could create better pics in 10 minutes with photoshop.

Then I had a trusted friend who claimed that his pets seemed to be reacting to an unseen presence. As an ex-science teacher this caused me to consider what is different in what a dog can see and what humans can see. The construction of a dogs eye, along with other modifications, can perceive what is called near-infrared (750 to 1000 nm). We have some sensitivity to this in the rod cells clustered along the perimeter of our retina. This is why we can see movement at night out-of-the-corner of our eye, but the image dissappears when we look directly at it. Anyway, that is why I chose the Sony CCD camera for its sensitivity to near-infrared wavelengths. I also decided to put myself on the line and to go out and actually INVESTIGATE to determine if paranormal phenomena actually existed, or if claimed paranormal pics were the result of mundane causes, or fraud.

Roach stated "damn we are good!" Well yes, you are good at reinforcing the mistaken perceptions of each other to the exclusion of other possibilities. I have seen a regretable tendancy among cynics to accept any harebrained mundane explanation rather than to even consider a paranormal one. note: To those of you who are only Skeptics, not Cynics- apologies are extended.

We are shaped by our experiences and we only learn what is compatable with our personal belief structure. We tend to learn at our own pace and in our own time. A cynic remains frozen in time. That is why I do not try and convince others of what I have learned, you can only convince yourself of the truth. How many of you have actually went out to investigate and seek the truth for yourselves? Not many I'll warrant. It takes a level of comfort with your own belief system to actually get out and seek the truth, no matter what you conclude it is. It is far easier to investigate a computer chair and tear apart second hand information than to take up the challenge of looking, first hand, for yourself. I understand as I have traveled the road from cynic to a skeptical believer. Do I have "the answers"? Absolutely not! Each bit if insite granted me only generates more and more questions! *LoL*

A few points for general edification about the pic in question. It is a combination of visible light and near-infrared combined. Sometimes I use a filter to produce an infrared only pic, but not on this particular pic. There is no light source were the boy is standing. There are no "glass panes" on or around the bannisters. That part of the house was under construction and the bannisters were there to keep you from stepping out into the high ceiling of the living area. Oh, it was unpainted- just bare wood. There may have been a simple "trouble light" (used for auto repair) by the front door of the house (far right and down in the pic). The electical work was not complete. So there may be some shadows caused by natural light also in the pic, but this is certainly insufficient to cause the anomaly. Remember, Sony nightvision combines visible light and near-infrared together if an infrared "pass" filter is not used. There was no "light source, or reflective surface" in the boys image that could be considered causal. There is a great deal of infrared either being emitted, or reflected from the anomaly. My research has shown that paranormal manifestations seem to either emit, or refect near-infrared well.

I encourage you to visit my site http://www.phantomsinthedark.com to view my fieldwork. The site will remain up until December 3rd, or 4th, and then will be down as I move to a new web hosting provider. I will also be doing battle with Microsoft Frontpage, so the site will only show a "under construction" page till I master Frontpage, well at least until I am functional in it LoL.

This is my first post here, and somewhat lengthy. So bear with me if I find it necessary to break it up into several "chunks".
 
Well, after looking at your site, I must say that altho' I wouldn't say 'fake', I would say 'simulacra'....
 
I would certainly not contest flyingorb's integrity and, no doubt some form of paranormal activity was probably taking place at the site (or he wouldn't be there), but I'm afraid the photos and video do not convince me, there is the shape of a form there, but it doesn't hold shape on closer inspection.
 
Having looked at the site, it still looks like a light-flare of some kind to me too.

And even if the Sony camera is combining visible and near infra-red you could still get reflections, of both visible and infra-red.

Not convinced that it's anything other than a interesting camera effect....but flyingorb's got a perfect right to his own opinion of it.
 
Hi Timble (and others),

You are indeed right that near-infrared can generate reflections and lens flares just as visible light can. That is a fact that must always be taken into account in both types of photography.

Any time that intelligent people get together to examine a given pic, there will be differences in interpretation of that pic, indeed it is inevitable whenever a 3 dimentional event is rendered into a two dimensional picture. Different opinions don't bother me, to each their own. What ticked me off was the violation of copyright law.

Oh, I only stopped back when I realised that some confusion may be created from my comment about the "trouble light" by the front door. It is not visible in the pics on my site- only in the video as I move in on the anomaly. The front door is downstairs and only briefly visible through the construction. What looks like a possible door behind the image is only windows. The anomaly was on the second floor.

flyingorb
 
flyingorb said:
Normally I would not waste time on a juvenile delinquent. I deduce that "gang-whatever" falls into this catagory due to the childish, arrogant demeanor exhibited in his email to me accusing me of creating a hoax using a placed light source in the picture in question. His attitude virtually screamed "Notice me, notice me, I am a nobody desperate for attention." He even included a childish taunt daring me to come to this board. I still stand by my answer to him that, "My time is too precious to waste on fools." Now that a crime has been committed by "gang-whatever" he has succeeded in getting my attention.

Whether "gangprobed" is a delinquent, or an adult, no longer matters. The theft of copyrighted material, the altering of copyrighted material, and the illegal reposting of stolen copyrighted material on his site (and this one), is a crime. "Gangprobed" your illegal activities have been reported to the Fortean Times and to the internet provider hosting your website- have a nice day. I will decide later if I will choose to get "nasty" and pursue this further through the authorities and the legal system.
First off, to refer to another poster as a juvenile delinquent is inflammatory - any discussions you may have had with one another on a different site is no concern of ours: as for the photos, you did invite comment as to their veracity - is the fact that they are not being discussed on your site, but on this one, causing you ire? Bearing in mind you have already stated that the site will only be running in it's present form for another four days, surely you should appreciate the fact that the discussion is continuing, unbroken.

And for the record, I am no cynic - I fully believe in the objective existence of ghosts. I just happen to believe that the photo in question is not a ghost photo.
 
You seem to miss the point. I do not object to differing opinions about the photo.

1. What I object to is the deliberate theft of copyrighted material.

2. What I object to is this BBS allowing a link to remain that accesses stolen copyrighted material.

Personnal opinions have nothing to do with this issue! I am surprised that you do not seem to understand that.
 
Flyingorb, I had a copy of your photographs on my hard drive in a directory called 'Temporary Internet Files' but I have now deleted them.

I suggest all other forum members who visited flyingorb's site should do likewise.
 
Appologies extended to stu neville,

I did not realise that the offending link had been removed when I posted that last comment and I do not know how to delete it.

thank you

flyingorb
 
Well, seems I touched a nerve. How mature of you to come out swinging insults and legal action. Yet, I am the one who is a “juvenile delinquent”. Well, I believe that everyone that has read this forum and your response can certainly arrive at their own conclusion on who is the mature and who is not. Of course I never attacked you or call you names. I simply shared with you my opinion on your so called paranormal photograph. You state on your web site that you welcome discussion on the subject in question yet what I received in return was a personal attack and the statement that you had no time to waist on fools. Well, sir I still will not stoop the same level as you and call you names and insult your intelligence. However, I stand by the fact that what you are claiming is a paranormal entity on your web site is is in fact nothing more than a trick of light and shadow easy dismissed. Of course I would not go as far to call you a liar I just believe that you are not skilled enough to make those sort of claim that you do on your web site. Do not feel bad it simply a misunderstanding on your part you are probably totally unaware of your actions. As for “legal actions” you thinly failed threats and fingerprinting do not scare me. You interpretation of the copyright laws are someone misunderstood. Being that I have been in the Graphic Art business upwards of 10 years professionally I am very familiar with them and I am afraid that there is not much if anything you can do about it.

In conclusion if you wish to be taken seriously I suggest that you learn to debate things like an adult and in an adult manner if you wish to be received as a creditable investigator. By calling people names and labeling people you have never met and know nothing about as fools seriously hurts your creditability before you can ever make your point.

Just because you own semi-fancy equipment does not necessary make you a creditable investigator nor does it make the foremost authority on anything. I invited you to debate this questionable “evidence” personally in e-mail and only received a nasty one sided response. I should have taken that as a indication that you do not have the moral or intellectual capacity to debate things in a serious and mature manner and that seems to be my only mistake.

Well, regardless if you read through the different responses you will see that a majority of the good people on this site actually agree with my opinion of your “paranormal” photo in one way or another. This might be an indication that your argument is pretty weak at best.

I am sorry you could not discuss this in a more structured and adult manner. I would have enjoyed it much more than it has transpired.

BTW: It is gangprobed not gang-whatever....My name is clearly marked beside each post. Please note that in the future. I have taken the time to learn your name please learn mine.
 
Gang"whatever",

You continue to show ignorance on copyright law, it will ultimately lead to your undoing. I simply need to decide if you are worth the effort.
 
Mod Alert

Okay kids, let's put the handbags away for now.

Thread closed till further notice.
 
To: Flyingorb, Gangprobed

As Flyingorb has chosen not to receive PMs I have to do this in public.

Gentlemen,

You may have noticed 99.9% of posters here manage to be civil and respectful in their dealings with others. That’s because they attempt to abide by the guidelines, so I’m sure you two can manage to do the same. If you wish to either cause or perpetuate a personal feud, then there are a multitude of different media to choose from, however this isn’t one of them.

This thread is now reopened, and we hope there won’t be a repeat performance. If there is, or if it carries on elsewhere, then be reassured we have a healthy supply of one-way tickets out of here.

We appreciate insight and educated opinion, which I’m sure you both have, so let’s see a little more of that and a little less antagonism. Thanks in advance for your co-operation.

The Moderators

Thread reopened. Any repeat performance and it's shut down for good.
 
eh...I am done with this guy and this subject. The photo is obviously not what he says it is so there really is not much more to say about it. I sent him an e-mail telling him to "sue" me for copyright but I suspect I will never hear from him again.

However, I digress I never wanted to get ugly with the guy he just seems to be the type to fly off the handle just a tad. All I ever wanted was a little healthly discussion.
 
I see, you are threatening to "ban" me because I take a strong stand against a thief. After perusing some of the other threads here I shouldn't be surprised. I also state that I am through with "Gangwhatever", at least through this venue. In the final analysis he is a nobody thief who posted stolen copyrighted material on a free web hosting service. Since he seems proud of this, I must conclude that this is the best he can aspire to. I don't feel anger toward him anymore, just pity. If the truth gets me "banned" from this site, I willingly accept it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top