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Stalin's Man-Ape Army (Ilya Ivanov: Human-Ape Hybrid Research)

Bigphoot2

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Not quite sure where to put this one, feel free to move it Mods,

Stalin's half-man, half-ape super-warriors

CHRIS STEPHEN AND ALLAN HALL


THE Soviet dictator Josef Stalin ordered the creation of Planet of the Apes-style warriors by crossing humans with apes, according to recently uncovered secret documents.

Moscow archives show that in the mid-1920s Russia's top animal breeding scientist, Ilya Ivanov, was ordered to turn his skills from horse and animal work to the quest for a super-warrior.


According to Moscow newspapers, Stalin told the scientist: "I want a new invincible human being, insensitive to pain, resistant and indifferent about the quality of food they eat."

In 1926 the Politburo in Moscow passed the request to the Academy of Science with the order to build a "living war machine". The order came at a time when the Soviet Union was embarked on a crusade to turn the world upside down, with social engineering seen as a partner to industrialisation: new cities, architecture, and a new egalitarian society were being created.

The Soviet authorities were struggling to rebuild the Red Army after bruising wars.

And there was intense pressure to find a new labour force, particularly one that would not complain, with Russia about to embark on its first Five-Year Plan for fast-track industrialisation.

Mr Ivanov was highly regarded. He had established his reputation under the Tsar when in 1901 he established the world's first centre for the artificial insemination of racehorses.

Mr Ivanov's ideas were music to the ears of Soviet planners and in 1926 he was dispatched to West Africa with $200,000 to conduct his first experiment in impregnating chimpanzees.

Meanwhile, a centre for the experiments was set up in Georgia - Stalin's birthplace - for the apes to be raised.

Mr Ivanov's experiments, unsurprisingly from what we now know, were a total failure. He returned to the Soviet Union, only to see experiments in Georgia to use monkey sperm in human volunteers similarly fail.

A final attempt to persuade a Cuban heiress to lend some of her monkeys for further experiments reached American ears, with the New York Times reporting on the story, and she dropped the idea amid the uproar.

Mr Ivanov was now in disgrace. His were not the only experiments going wrong: the plan to collectivise farms ended in the 1932 famine in which at least four million died.

For his expensive failure, he was sentenced to five years' jail, which was later commuted to five years' exile in the Central Asian republic of Kazakhstan in 1931. A year later he died, reportedly after falling sick while standing on a freezing railway platform.

Source
 

Dessie32

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yes I read that in, British Tabloid, the Sun. Does not surprise me really. Still it may answer the question that has come on here about the Humanzee theory.
 

ted_bloody_maul

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Stalin's Breeding Plan - apes and humans

Soviet dictator Josef Stalin tried to create an invincible army by crossing humans with apes, according to secret documents.

The Kremlin chief ordered his scientists to create the mutant species that would be "resilient and resistant to hunger".

Archive papers quote him demanding the breed should be of "immense strength but with an underdeveloped brain".

Part of his terrifying plan was use the mutants to work on railway construction, according to The Sun.

Secret laboratories and ape skeletons have been found in the Black Sea town of Suchumi in Georgia, by workmen building a playground for children.

The bones are thought to come from apes captured in the 1920s and paid for by Stalin, who ordered scientist Ilia Ivanov to carry out the research.

The leader used a French research station in Guinea for the work, where African women were seized to be impregnated with ape sperm.

No pregnancies resulted but the next stage was to implant human sperm in female gorillas.

Ivanov was arrested in 1930 after his project failed and he died in a labour camp two years later.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,3 ... 28,00.html
 

Human_84

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Wasn't it reported by a seperate source that the reason stalin's scientists failed is because no woman in africa was willing to do the expirement? Emps posted a story about it in the human subforum about 3 weeks ago.
 

GNC

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Human_84 said:
Wasn't it reported by a seperate source that the reason stalin's scientists failed is because no woman in africa was willing to do the expirement? Emps posted a story about it in the human subforum about 3 weeks ago.

Surely the reason the plan failed is because it's impossible to do? If it happened at all.

Mind you, I learned recently that nectarines are the result of experiments with irradiated peaches, so who knows?
 

ruffready

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Josef Stalin was only five feet, four inches tall.

Stalin's left foot had webbed toes, and his left arm is noticeably shorter than his right.

a monkeys ass looked better than Josef Stalin
 

OldTimeRadio

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Heard this Tale 40 Years Ago; It Wasn't 'News' Then

I first heard this story around 1965 and it was then atributed to the Anti-Communist emigre White Russian underground in Paris about 30 years earlier.

I didn't put much credence on the tale at that time because the emigre undergroiund was not above putting black icing on the ebony cake of Soviet atrocities. (As if extra iciing were needed.)

So according to the version I heard 40 years ago Stalin attempted to breed African gorillas to Russian peasant women in order to create a half-human race of super-strong but dim-witted construction workers.

But their use as combat troops was NOT mentioned. [Though I'm reminded of rumors which swept the United States around 1951, when World War III between the US and the USSR seemed imminent, that Stalin had division after division of seven-foot tall warriors.]

Both my 40-year-old version and the current versions discussed on this thread are in absolute agreement that Stalin's man-ape experiments all ended in absolute failure.
 

Pietro_Mercurios

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Marvel Comics were on to this story back in the Sixties!

RedGhost.jpg


:shock:
 
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Mr_Eamcat2

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I fear we may be slipping OT........................

Is it actually feasible to cross breed humans with other primates?
 

Mighty_Emperor

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Books mentioned in the Wikipedia entry (fairly reasonably priced second hand - how alike are thsoe two?):

Wildmen: Yeti, Sasquatch and the Neanderthal Enigma
Myra Shackley (1983)

Still Living?: Yeti, Sasquatch and the Neanderthal Enigma
Myra Shackley (1986)
 
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OldTimeRadio

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Almas

But if Almas existed in Stalin's Russia down to the 1940s, in areas under his direct dictatorial control and in which he could easily establish an overwhelming military and scientific presence, why in the world was he spending so much time and money trying to RE-CREATE them?

Or had Stalin in fact FOUND his Almas? Were the "Russian peasant women" whom he reportedly bred to gorillas in truth Almas? Was Stalin attempting to create workers or warriors who were even LESS than half- human?

Or was this a THREE-step process? Breed gorillas to almas and then breed almas to humans, eventually breeding alma-gorilla offspring (if any) to alma-human (ditto).

Still, all the reports indicate that these experiments ended in utter failure.
 

stu neville

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Myra Shackley knows her stuff, definitely. And I couldn't agree more - if there are "wildmen" anywhere, that's the sort of area they could flourish relatively undisturbed.

There's a related discussion here, in which I said this:
stuneville said:
I've mentioned this before, but there were persistent rumours IIRC some years ago that Chinese scientists had successfully hybridised humans and chimps, but the military had put an end to it. Have been searching for links for ages, or at least for the original reference (pre-interweb).
Still searching. I vividly remember reading it, no more than ten years ago, in a book: possibly one of the ASSAP "Evidence" ones.

Anyone any ideas?
 

Xanatico

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I think there was something about this in the hybrid humans thread. Apparently they had managed to put together human and chimps zygotes and egg cells. But they never let it get as far as the embryonic stage.

Finding almas would be really interesting. But big ethical problems would arise.

And yes, nectarines are just a naturally mutated version of peaches.
 

dreeness

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It's impossible, although today there might be a way to combine human and ape DNA to create some sort of chimera, whether it would ever result in a hairy soviet super-soldier is dubious at best.
 
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Richard_Cheese

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Gitrdone

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I've always been fascinated by that story! Obviously wasn't going to happen back then, but what if a suitably financed evil dictator today were to try to genetically engineer such a thing! Would make a great movie... :D
 

Spookdaddy

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Although the earliest tales predate the soviet era by generations I wonder if anyone has tried to tie this story in with the more modern sightings of Russian wildmen or almas?
 

Quake42

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I've always been fascinated by that story! Obviously wasn't going to happen back then, but what if a suitably financed evil dictator today were to try to genetically engineer such a thing!

Wouldn't the soldiers be a bit rubbish though? They may well have super strength but they may be unable to communicate well (chimpanzees cannot speak) and I have doubts about how military disciplinae would work with a platoon of apemen.

Fascinating story though... I wonder if anything similar has been tried more recently?
 

Spookdaddy

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Quake42 said:
Wouldn't the soldiers be a bit rubbish though? They may well have super strength but they may be unable to communicate well (chimpanzees cannot speak) and I have doubts about how military disciplinae would work with a platoon of apemen.

Corporal, they're sending in another wave. Load the howitzer with bananas!
 

James_H

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Spookdaddy said:
Although the earliest tales predate the soviet era by generations I wonder if anyone has tried to tie this story in with the more modern sightings of Russian wildmen or almas?
I have read this, but I can't remember where.
/helpful
 

Kondoru

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I dont think almas would make good soldiers too, might make an interesting distraction.

or get mistaken for a spy, of course.
 

Richard_Cheese

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Well, he was really hoping for something along the lines of the "Planet of the apes" type of hybrid.
Human intelligence with ape strength and preferences for food.
He couldn't afford to feed them vodka and caviar. He could not afford to feed the soldiers he already had.
It might have been easy to infiltrate enemy territories though, just disguise them as a circus coming to town with lots of apes and then set them loose with with weapons . "Apes with rifles will shoot, apes without rifles will wait until the one with the rifle is killed and pick up the rifle and shoot". :lol:
 

eburacum

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They were aiming for a hybrid with the strength of an ape and the intelligence of a human. What they would probably end up with is a hybrid with the strength of a human and the intelligence of an ape.
 

OldTimeRadio

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Stalin's Half-Ape Soldiers and Workers

I'm old enough to remember newspaper rumors from circa 1951 (I was nine or 10) that Stalin had an army of eight-foot-tall warriors which he intended to launch against American troops in Korea. Even so, the inference was that these troops were fully human.

15 years later I came across reports which had originally emanated from anti-Soviet Russian circles in Paris during the 1930s, that Stalin was attempting to breed African gorillas to Russian women.

But the emphasis of these reports was the creation of semi-human farm workers and simple laborers rather than soldiers.
 

stu neville

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H_James said:
Spookdaddy said:
Although the earliest tales predate the soviet era by generations I wonder if anyone has tried to tie this story in with the more modern sightings of Russian wildmen or almas?
I have read this, but I can't remember where.
/helpful
On here, maybe - Zana the Wild Woman* was, it is alleged, an Alma who became integrated into a remote community in the USSR and eventually had a hybrid son.


*Current Link: https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/zana-the-wild-woman.1847/
 
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Spookdaddy

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stuneville said:
Zana the Wild Woman...was, it is alleged, an Alma who became integrated into a remote community in the USSR and eventually had a hybrid son.

She's also mentioned on the site referred to in my earlier post

According to testimony from villagers of Tkhina, on the Mokvi River, a female Almas was captured there during the nineteenth century, in the forests of Mt. Zaadan. For three years, she was kept imprisoned, but then became domesticated and was allowed to live in a house. She was called Zana. Shackley (1983, p. 112) stated: "Her skin was a greyish-black colour, covered with reddish hair, longer on her head than elsewhere. She was capable of inarticulate cries but never developed a language. She had a large face with big cheek bones, muzzle-like prognathous jaw and large eyebrows, big white teeth and a fierce expression." Eventually Zana, through sexual relations with a villager, had children. Some of Zana's grandchildren were seen by Boris Porshnev in 1964. In her account of Porshnev's investigations, Shackley (1983, p. 113) noted: '"The grandchildren, Chalikoua and Taia, had darkish skin of rather negroid appearance, with very prominent chewing muscles and extra strongjaws." Porshnev also interviewed villagers who as children had been present at Zana's funeral in the 1880s.
 

Quake42

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There was also a persistent rumour some years back regarding Chinese experiments, and apparently successful births of chimp/human hybrids, which were then halted forcibly by the military: anyone else remember this?

No, but there was a Russian scientist (Ivanov) in the 20s who attempted to create such a hybrid - bizarrely, he apparently had female human volunteers willing to attempt to fall pregnant with such a creature (following artificial insemination, I hasten to add!) but it didn't happen because of a lack of male chimps, and Ivanov subsequently feel out of favour with Stalin and was sent off to work in some obscure facility somewhere out in the steppes.

TBH, like human cloning, I suspect that this is something that has been tried on more than one occasion regardless of ethical considerations.
 

amyasleigh

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Quake42 said:
There was also a persistent rumour some years back regarding Chinese experiments, and apparently successful births of chimp/human hybrids, which were then halted forcibly by the military: anyone else remember this?

No, but there was a Russian scientist (Ivanov) in the 20s who attempted to create such a hybrid - bizarrely, he apparently had female human volunteers willing to attempt to fall pregnant with such a creature (following artificial insemination, I hasten to add!) but it didn't happen because of a lack of male chimps, and Ivanov subsequently feel out of favour with Stalin and was sent off to work in some obscure facility somewhere out in the steppes.

TBH, like human cloning, I suspect that this is something that has been tried on more than one occasion regardless of ethical considerations.
Later, during the Stalin era, there were rumours (brought up now and again in the "fancy", to this day) about Soviet attempts to develop -- via hybridizing of this kind -- a strain of giant ape-man super-soldiers. I'm never clear whether this was a figment of Cold War hysteria, in the West -- fuelled by confused association with Ivanov's doings, as above; or whether there's more of a core of truth to it.
 
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