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Swastikas & Disputes About The Swastika Symbol

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There used to be a laundry in the Ringsend area of Dublin, up until the 1960s, called 'The Swastika Laundry'. It had nothing to do with Nazis.
 
In the shrine/teaching room of one of the local Buddhist groups, there's a lot of swastikas on traditional Buddhist decorations. Since this is clearly a public place, maybe they would have to be removed?
 
i work in a photographic lab, and i did some slide films of a man/women who had travelled tibet and asia, one of the photos had a shop with a swastika on it, it was on a few shops.

But thats cos it was a sign of peace, and the nazis took it.


This is probably all summed up in the big post above or the link :D ;)
 
I have a few copies of pre-war Kipling books with embossed swasticka hardback covers.
 
Hey, I have some of those books too. "Kipling's Works" Which I can't find a date on anywhere. I was always curious as to why they had swastikas all over 'em. So is that the peacefull swastika and are they worth anything??
 
laundry

i remember the swastika laundry in dublin. it used the reversed symbol to that used by the fash. the laundrys foundation predated the hijacking of the symbol. perhaps local Jews got used to it (i never heard seasoned lefties complaining about it) but it must have been disturbing to tourists.

some more on the Hindu stance:

Hindus want to 'reclaim' swastika

The swastika is the second-most sacred Hindu symbol
Hindus in the UK are starting a campaign to reclaim the swastika from its Nazi associations.
German MEPs called for a Europe-wide ban of the symbol after Prince Harry wore it on a fancy dress costume.

But Hindu Forum spokesman Ramesh Kallidai said the swastika had been a Hindu good luck charm for centuries.

The group will stage public awareness workshops across the UK and lobby politicians in an attempt to educate the public and prevent a ban, he said.

"It's the second most sacred symbol in the Hindu tradition which has been used for 5,000 years to ward off evil," Mr Kallidai said.

The forum would make a particular effort to get the message across to Jewish groups, he added.

"After all it is the Jewish anguish that needs to be considered. They were the community that was most affected by the misuse of the swastika so naturally they would have concerns.

"Hindus use the swastika merely as a religious sacrament, to express their devotion to God, surely nobody can have any objections to that," he said.

'Mirror image'

Displaying the swastika is illegal in Germany.

However, Mr Kallidai said a similar ban in the UK would have an adverse affect on Hindus who regarded a swastika in much the same way as a Christian viewed a cross.


Buddhists also view the swastika as a good luck charm

"You find it in houses, temples and in portraits of Hindu gods. A swastika is even painted on the head of a baby who's just had his first hair-cutting sacrament," he said.

The Hindu swastika faces to the right, unlike the one adopted by the Nazis which faces to the left.

It is also traditionally red, a colour regarded as auspicious by Hindus.

"Just because at a particular moment in history one section of society used it, or a mirror image, to unleash xenophobic ideology does not mean Hindus should be punished," Mr Kallidai said.

"It's like saying the Ku Klux Klan burn crosses so therefore let's ban the use of crosses worldwide."

'Positive symbol'

The Hindu Forum's campaign has gained backing from other groups.

Maganbhai Patel of Leicester's Hindu Association said the general public's confusion needed to be addressed.

When I got married, literally as soon as you entered the hall where the marriage took place you saw swastikas everywhere

Kapil Dudakia,
Milton Keynes Hindu Association

"Hindus have been using the swastika for centuries, whereas it was only adopted by Hitler comparatively recently, in the 1920s and 1930s.

"We use it for marriage ceremonies and also for other religious ceremonies and events," Mr Patel said.

And Kapil Dudakia, of Milton Keynes Hindu Association, said the swastika was viewed "positively" by billions of people around the world including followers of the Buddhist and Jain faiths.

"When I got married, literally as soon as you entered the hall where the marriage took place you saw swastikas everywhere. They were also on the invitation cards," he said.

"It's only in certain quarters of the western world where you've got these very negative connotations.

"What we've got to do is separate the evil of Hitler and his ideology from the symbol of the swastika which actually means something quite different," Mr Dudakia said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4188141.stm
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Ramon's article says:

The Hindu swastika faces to the right, unlike the one adopted by the Nazis which faces to the left.
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But this isn't really true. Both left and right turning swastikas are found in Indian/Tibetan/where-ever art, often alternating in a nice pattern.
 
Its a shame but I fear its been ruined forever, its a symbol in Northern European paganism too, (doubly unfortunate as there are neo-nazis into this religion too).
 
Quote:
The Hindu swastika faces to the right, unlike the one adopted by the Nazis which faces to the left.


But this isn't really true. Both left and right turning swastikas are found in Indian/Tibetan/where-ever art, often alternating in a nice pattern.
Click to expand...

nothing to do with me guv. thats the views published by the BBC. but going on empirical evidence, the vast majority of the swastikas i've encountered which were used in a religious/devotional context were the reverse of that used by the fash.
 
The Finnish Air Force's insignia used to be a blue swastika on a white circle, which considered as a sign of good luck. Of course, this wasn't the reversed-type of swastika used by the Nazis.
 
Some care needs to be taken with those who assert that the swastika is an old pagan earth-mother, etc. symbol - this was also asserted by several Nazi archaeologists in their drive to prove an Aryan root history for Europe (as well as most of the rest of the world).
 
I was told by an occultist friend that when it runs in the anti-clock wise direction it draws power to one's self and when it runs clock wise it gives power out?!

He also said the Nazi swastika was drawn back to front or the wrong way round(?) But I can't see any difference....any one got any ideas?

In support of the true meaning of the symbol - take a look here :

http://www.geocities.com/swastika_webring/index2.htm

8)
 
iirc early C20th russian banknotes also used to have a swastika.
 
Plenty of Swastikas out here in Korea. The buddhists use them although whether their significance differs from that of the Hindus i do not know.
 
Hindus opposing EU swastika ban

The Nazis hijacked the symbol from its Hindu origins
Hindus in Europe have joined forces against a German proposal to ban the display of the swastika across the European Union, a Hindu leader said.
Ramesh Kallidai of the Hindu Forum of Britain said the swastika had been a symbol of peace for thousands of years before the Nazis adopted it.

He said a ban on the symbol would discriminate against Hindus.

Germany, holder of the EU presidency, wants to make Holocaust denial and the display of Nazi symbols a crime.

Mr Kallidai said his organisation was writing to European lawmakers to highlight the issue.

The swastika has been around for 5,000 years as a symbol of peace,

Ramesh Kallidai


Origins of the swastika

Hindu groups in Holland, Belgium and Italy were also involved in the campaign, he said.

"The swastika has been around for 5,000 years as a symbol of peace," he said. "This is exactly the opposite of how it was used by Hitler."

He said that while the Nazi implications of the symbol should be condemned, people should respect the Hindu use of the swastika.

"Just because Hitler misused the symbol, abused it and used it to propagate a reign of terror and racism and discrimination, it does not mean that its peaceful use should be banned."

The group said banning the swastika was equivalent to banning the cross simply because the Ku Klux Klan had used burning crosses.

The swastika is already banned in Germany. A previous attempt to ban it across the EU in early 2005 failed after objections from several governments, including the British.

Germany took over the six-month EU presidency on 1 January.






http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6269627.stm
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I'm not really surprised the Hindus (and Buddhists, and Jains ... and Celts, and Greeks, and Romans, and 'Vikings' and Native American Indians, and Chinese and ....) aren't too happy about this. The symbol appears from pre-history onwards just about all over the world and is still absolutely everywhere in India, and was fairly common as a 'good luck' type symbol in Europe up until WW2. It is even found as a decoration in ancient synagogues.

Before anyone starts with that 'wrong way up' business, the Hindus (the world's third largest religion, there's a good couple of million of them in Europe) use both the left and right facing versions of the swastika (the word comes from the Sanskrit), sometimes with and sometimes without dots between the arms.

It's about as uniquely Nazi as genocide, concentration camps or trousers.

I have to admit it does evoke a bit of an odd feeling to see people wearing swastika necklace pendants and them drawn on everything from buses to the odd Christian shrine in India, but to huge swathes of the world's population it just doesn't have the same resonances as it does to us, and while I wouldn't personally sport one or draw one on the outside of my house, obviously, 'banning' it from being displayed anywhere in Europe would theoretically involve defacing a lot of religous and even archealogical art, which is ridiculous.
 
Banning symbols? Screw that.

These people need their heads read.
 
Its an outrageous insult to Hinduism to suggest that the swastika should be banned because it was hijacked by the nazis. To any on the left who would support this proposed ban I'd say :
Do you think the Hammer & Sickle emblem should be banned because it was used by Stalinists?
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The swastila can be used to intimidate people though. Where the symbol is used by non Hindus to hassle Jews etc then there are other laws which can be used, including asbos.

When you see a swastika on a wall (thats not part of a Hindu exhibit), then its usually a good idea to cover it. Thats common sense and direct action.
 
I'd have thought this one was a no-brainer. Evidently not.
 
ramonmercado said:
The group said banning the swastika was equivalent to banning the cross simply because the Ku Klux Klan had used burning crosses.
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I'm sure a fair few atheists and secularists would probably want the cross to be baned anyway ;)
 
I imagine there are few people on earth who loathe Nazis more than I do, but I side with the Hindus on this one.

The swastika is an ancient symbol of the Hindu faith, and it has nothing to do with anti-Semitism, genocide, or any of the other Nazi atrocities.

I agree that I would never, personally, use the swastika symbol because here in the West, it conjures up horrible memories.

But that's no excuse for banning people of the Hindu faith from using one of their most revered symbols. I agree, it would be like banning crosses just because the hooded morons in the Klan (mis)used the cross as part of their hate-and-terror campaign.

This sounds like "guilt by association" and that is just plain wrong.
 
ghostdog19 said:
ramonmercado said:
The group said banning the swastika was equivalent to banning the cross simply because the Ku Klux Klan had used burning crosses.
Click to expand...
I'm sure a fair few atheists and secularists would probably want the cross to be baned anyway ;)
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Whoever could you be referring to :?:

Certainly not me. If you have a full size cross then you can hang 2 clerics at a time from it :twisted:

If you have one about 30 cm long then you can use it as a close quarters club.
 
Really, crosses aren't all that uniquely christian either to be honest, and it's all much the same design as the swastika anyway, just with some bits longer/shorter or more/less bent than others. There are plenty of crosses in designs the world over going back to the stone age too.
 
"Do you think the Hammer & Sickle emblem should be banned because it was used by Stalinists?"

My german flatmate tells me that the east german flag with hammer and map-thingy is banned in germany.
 
I have an American radio drama series from 1932 (I really should write "as late as 1932"), presenting oriental-style mysteries, in which the progran's sponsor (I believe it was the old Majestic Radio Corporation) offers a free premium to its listeners - "genuine sandalwood swastikas to decorate your walls!"
 
Just talked to my german flatmate who had talked to his dad. It seems the east german flags were never legally banned, they would just have gotten you into a lot of trouble.
The old Carlsberg brewery has a swastika on either side of the entrance.
"Aryans, probably the best race in the world" ;)
 
I remember seeing a site where they sold t-shirts with swastikas made to look like smiling heads. It was an attempt to reclaim the swastika. I did a search and found this website:
http://www.reclaimtheswastika.com/
If you look under photos there is a swastika-shaped coca cola fob that I would love to have. Imagine the conspiracy theories you could make from that. ;)
 
Lizard23, whilst you are technically right that the cross is a widely used religious symbol spanning many cultures you must look at the type of cross and the context that the cross has.

In many pre-christian pagan cultures the 'greek cross' (equal length arms with perfect symmetry) was more of a sun symbol or representation of the the four elements than anything else.

The christian cross crux ordinaria is not however a sun symbol, it is a symbol of suffering, death and redemption.

Interestingly the greek cross was adpoted by the church because of its connotations of harmony and symetetery in the universe.
 
Bout the East German flag; this what an Irish friend who lives in Berlin had to say. Shes a Libertarian Socialist like me so her use of the flag does not mean she longs for the return of Stalinism. I have an old USSR flag hanging in my bedroom.

No, i have one hanging in my room at the mo coincidentally! Just since
sunday.I bought it in a local east german memorabila store(its now
actually a chain store, DDR nostalgia is good business i guess!) You
see them around sometimes. Im sure there were a few at the LL demo
sunday, but you get so used to them.
The national socialist flat is banned of course!
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there were a few at the LL demo sunday
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The Luxemburg / Liebnicht memorial march. Not surprising that the flag would be at the demo, the ex-communists get over 20% support in most of the east German States.
 
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