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Terminal Lucidity

gattino

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
2,515
... Terminal Lucidity. This is a frequently reported and mysterious phenomenon whereby patients with brain damage, dementia or even a coma, become fully lucid and intelligible - their old selves in fact - immediately before death. This again tempts one to infer that the "real" them had never really gone away, whatever damage has occurred t the brain to give that impression.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/930465-do-alzheimers-dementia-prove-the-soul-doesnt-exist/
 
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... Terminal Lucidity. This is a frequently reported and mysterious phenomenon whereby patients with brain damage, dementia or even a coma, become fully lucid and intelligible - their old selves in fact - immediately before death. This again tempts one to infer that the "real" them had never really gone away, whatever damage has occurred t the brain to give that impression.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/930465-do-alzheimers-dementia-prove-the-soul-doesnt-exist/
This sounds like what some medics call The Lightening.

Terminal lucidity refers to an unexpected return of mental clarity that occurs in the time preceding a patient's death. This phenomenon has been noted in patients with schizophrenia, tumors, strokes, meningitis, and Alzheimer's disease.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_lucidity
 
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Here's a R4 programme about terminal lucidity, which was on just now and available as a podcast.

We, and other animals, may experience a transformed state of consciousness at the point of death.

HIGHLY Fortean! Fascinating, and a bit creepy.

Lightning before death

Jolyon Jenkins investigates reports that people with severe dementia, or who haven't spoken for years, can sit up and have lucid conversations just before they die. Victorians called the phenomenom "lightning before death" and recently it's been described as "terminal lucidity".
It seems incredible, but some in the medical community are taking it seriously.

This is accepted as normal in care/hospital environments. Then again, all sorts of strange happenings around death are witnessed by staff which aren't discussed outside work for fear of disbelief or ridicule.
 
A close friend's father, whom I knew quite well, developed a brain tumour in his 50s. This must have been fifteen years ago, I'd say.

One day he found himself just standing in his own house, completely drawing a mental blank as to where he was and what he was doing there. The moment passed, but the experience frightened him enough to go for an immediate consultation and the diagnosis/prognosis wasn't good.

Surgeons did their best, but decline was fast and within a month he couldn't recognise his wife or children and, essentially, he wasn't sure who he was or what was going on for a lot of the time.

It was heart-rending for his family, but then, the day before he died, 'the old him' came back quite out of the blue, and although he was weak and disoriented, he was able to tell them all how much he loved them.

And then he died in the night.

I was at the funeral and his son, my school friend, told me--without reference to supernatural agency, I must add--that they felt blessed that they'd been given that single chink of light in an otherwise merciless experience. At the end of the day, it was the immediate family, me and another friend. His widow refused to sit there with a grieving face, put on some music they'd both liked and produced a bottle of Scotch, which we emptied while talking.

He was a good man--good company--with a dust-dry wit and a lot of zest for life.

The world would be a better place if he were still in it.

It makes me feel emotional typing the story.
 
My sister-in-law's dad had very bad dementia and was in a care home. He was so bad he couldn't recognise any of the family and barely spoke. One night my SIL and my nephew's stepfather went to see him and were amazed at the change - very lucid and he was asking about members of the family and seemed very cheerful.

The next morning they were getting ready for work and school and the first thing they noticed was that the dog was behaving strangely - normally he'd be bouncing around and eating. That morning he was very subdued and went from one family member to the next, then ignored his food and went back to his bad and lay facing the wall.

Just then the phone rang and it was the care home to say that Bob had died in his sleep.

Just about two years ago I had an uncle who was in declining health and had started showing signs of dementia. He became quite deluded and seemed to think he was on a cruise ship rather than a hospital, couldn't remember his family and became very disorientated and confused. Then one day he was back to his old self - joking, talking about sport, showing an interest in what was going on and we had a really enjoyable time with him. That night he went into a steep decline and died a few days later without regaining consciousness.
 
One day he found himself just standing there in his own house, completely drawing a mental blank as to where he was and what he was doing there. The moment passed, but the experience frightened him enough to go for an immediate consultation and the diagnosis/prognosis wasn't good.

Exactly the same happened to one of the Weird Weekend speakers. He described it last year in his talk. Luckily the comprehensive tests he underwent courtesy of the NHS proved he wasn't seriously ill. Brains are very weird indeed.
 
Just off the phone to someone, who had a long nursing career.

Mentioned this subject and she was quite familiar with it, recalling any such incidents were never spoken about. If occurring whilst no family members were present, they were not informed in case it might spark their hopes of a recovery.

Yup, it's very much like the final rally phenomenon where a patient who is near to death from illness other than dementia or neurological conditions suddenly recovers for a short time before dying. I have personally seen that many times.

One patient who did this, a very elderly lady who hadn't been expected to live through the night. She did, and for a few days seemed to recover well. It was almost miraculous.
We staff were cautious, y'know. Especially when she informed me that she'd known she'd be OK because her mother had visited every night!
I'd done lates all week and would have noticed if she'd had a visitor of about 101!

The lady did indeed die as expected, peacefully in her sleep. She said her goodbyes and her mother came for her. About as good a death as you could ask for.
 
Surely not alone here, in being previously unaware of this subject.

It's compelling and the following three expositions are duly recommended.

Personally, have only had time to browse same, so far. However, already clearly engrossing and most assuredly a necessity to appreciate what the intrinsic implications are.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51497433_Terminal_lucidity_A_review_and_a_case_collection

https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...oodbye-the-strange-case-of-terminal-lucidity/

https://www.1800hospice.com/blog/terminal-lucidity/
 
Spent most of the last few days and nights at the bedside of a dying relative. Unconscious for several days and terminal she suddenly sprung to life for an hour yesterday happily chatting to relatives, and telephoning Ms PeteS with her usual opening to her of "watcha cocker" (she was a real character), before slipping back into unconsciousness. Over this a.m. thankfully for her.

RIP V.

Death's somewhat brutal innit.
 
Spent most of the last few days and nights at the bedside of a dying relative. Unconscious for several days and terminal she suddenly sprung to life for an hour yesterday happily chatting to relatives, and telephoning Ms PeteS with her usual opening to her of "watcha cocker" (she was a real character), before slipping back into unconsciousness. Over this a.m. thankfully for her.

RIP V.

Death's somewhat brutal innit.
Sorry to hear that, Pete.

How lovely to hear of the terminal lucidity though. What a great privilege to have witnessed that.
 
Spent most of the last few days and nights at the bedside of a dying relative. Unconscious for several days and terminal she suddenly sprung to life for an hour yesterday happily chatting to relatives, and telephoning Ms PeteS with her usual opening to her of "watcha cocker" (she was a real character), before slipping back into unconsciousness. Over this a.m. thankfully for her.

RIP V.

Death's somewhat brutal innit.

My condolences. Great that she had that final bout of being herself though.
 
My Dad, similarly, during his last few days was basically 'not here', and then one afternoon suddenly became quite talkative and apparently lucid, telling us about the work the vicar was doing on the church next door, and the noise the workmen were making, and berating me for having anything to do with "That 'Pearl' woman".
He was in fact in a hospital bed talking utter bollocks, but I humoured him. It gave us all a laugh afterwards. Thanks Dad.
 
@PeteS , sorry to hear of your loss. Not that it's easy to do, but you being with your relative is a wonderful selfless act. Not a lot of people can do that. Terminal lucidity is an odd state, but for people who are there at the time I think it helps them to deal with their grief easier.
 
Reading and hearing many stories of Terminal Lucidity, it dawns on me that there seems in the telling always to be something missing. Frequently its "they talked about their lives and and told us they loved us and..."well all the things that indicate lucidity, but there's an absence in the stories reported of what is surely from a "what does it all mean" perspective the most desirable thing: I don't recall reading or hearing of the suddenly clear minded saying anything of note about their hitherto lost/silent/demented status. There's never a "this was what was going on in my head these last several weeks/months/years when i wasn't making any sense" Or even a "thank goodness im back."
 
Reading and hearing many stories of Terminal Lucidity, it dawns on me that there seems in the telling always to be something missing. Frequently its "they talked about their lives and and told us they loved us and..."well all the things that indicate lucidity, but there's an absence in the stories reported of what is surely from a "what does it all mean" perspective the most desirable thing: I don't recall reading or hearing of the suddenly clear minded saying anything of note about their hitherto lost/silent/demented status. There's never a "this was what was going on in my head these last several weeks/months/years when i wasn't making any sense" Or even a "thank goodness im back."
Maybe they don't remember any of it, or it's like a dream.
 
... I don't recall reading or hearing of the suddenly clear minded saying anything of note about their hitherto lost/silent/demented status. There's never a "this was what was going on in my head these last several weeks/months/years when i wasn't making any sense" Or even a "thank goodness im back."

That's a good point. I similarly don't recall any mention of the patient referring to his / her prior or recent confused / confusing state.
 
That's a good point. I similarly don't recall any mention of the patient referring to his / her prior or recent confused / confusing state.
Thanks for the condolences.

Funnily enough, a couple of days before slipping into her unconsciousness, aged relative turned very nasty telling a nurse to inform her husband that he was "a dead man" and there were some other very pointed comments (including that he wanted her to die so he could move his "floozie" in) . The day after she apologised to him telling him she didn't mean it so there was some cognitive ability left . Despite her very strong RC faith she was terrified of dying and I guess this was the reason for her anger.
 
Reading and hearing many stories of Terminal Lucidity, it dawns on me that there seems in the telling always to be something missing. Frequently its "they talked about their lives and and told us they loved us and..."well all the things that indicate lucidity, but there's an absence in the stories reported of what is surely from a "what does it all mean" perspective the most desirable thing: I don't recall reading or hearing of the suddenly clear minded saying anything of note about their hitherto lost/silent/demented status.
Another topic and term is "locked in syndrome". It refers to recent study of people who have been in comas for, sometimes, years, but are not in a vegetative state. It has been proven that those people are aware.

I read a book about brain research that was working with how to communicate with people in a locked in state, but can for the life of me remember the author nor title:roll:. It was quite interesting. People who were chosen for the study were able to show that they heard and knew what was going on around them. One guy knew who his caregiver was (he regained consciousness after many years) even though he hadn't met her before his injury put him in a coma.
 
Reading and hearing many stories of Terminal Lucidity, it dawns on me that there seems in the telling always to be something missing. Frequently its "they talked about their lives and and told us they loved us and..."well all the things that indicate lucidity, but there's an absence in the stories reported of what is surely from a "what does it all mean" perspective the most desirable thing: I don't recall reading or hearing of the suddenly clear minded saying anything of note about their hitherto lost/silent/demented status. There's never a "this was what was going on in my head these last several weeks/months/years when i wasn't making any sense" Or even a "thank goodness im back."
I read years ago about a man who'd been in some kind of immobile state in hospital whose family brought in photos of themselves for the staff to display where he could easily see them.

When he recovered he complained that the faces in the photos had been like monsters that had terrified him but he could't move to tell anyone. o_O
 
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I think this is a fascinating subject. This, and the 'seeing of relatives who have already passed on', which I had evidence of from my own mother. I wonder what the mechanism is behind it? I know it must make death perhaps easier and less frightening for those undergoing the experience, but what processess in the brain can make it possible? And why?
 
I think this is a fascinating subject. This, and the 'seeing of relatives who have already passed on', which I had evidence of from my own mother. I wonder what the mechanism is behind it? I know it must make death perhaps easier and less frightening for those undergoing the experience, but what processess in the brain can make it possible? And why?
After my mother died, I did expect to see her funnily enough, simply because she was possessive in the extreme. No sign though, which is probably just as well.
 
My Dad, similarly, during his last few days was basically 'not here', and then one afternoon suddenly became quite talkative and apparently lucid, telling us about the work the vicar was doing on the church next door, and the noise the workmen were making, and berating me for having anything to do with "That 'Pearl' woman".
He was in fact in a hospital bed talking utter bollocks, but I humoured him. It gave us all a laugh afterwards. Thanks Dad.
I wonder whom he meant by 'Pearl'?
 
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