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The Bilderberg Conference

If Richard Stilgoe is pressured out of the Bilderberg group as has been predicted elsewhere on this forum, who is going to take his place ? The rumour that the Chuckle Brothers themselves are to sit beside Kissinger, Bush Snr. et al is a frankly disturbing prospect for all of us.
 
Androman - I wouldn't disagree with all of what you have written about Palestine. Only maybe with your emphasis in places.

Continued suicide bombings by Arafat's Islamic Jihad movement, and by Hamas, only serve to further weaken the Israeli left and make peace and compromise less likely. Such attacks are also, simply, unacceptable.

You can't make peace with cultish suicide bombers - such people do not understand the language of compromise and understanding. They are not looking to make peace. They do not respect peace makers.

But compromise and recognition of mutual rights will be the only way to sort this. Both peoples have an historical claim to land in the region. They will have to learn to co exist.

Pity they couldn't have all lived together in one country.
 
simonsmith said:
The article about Icke which you have linked to (at the Wordsmith site) seems quite balanced and sensible to me.

You really think??

David Icke's examples include the.... Holocaust (initiated by Jews).

Wrong.

He tells us that the elite Jewish bankers are in full control of the world's economy.....

Wrong.

From here on, we're all apparently doomed to a life of servitude to our Zionist masters.

Wrong.
 
Continued suicide bombings by Arafat's Islamic Jihad movement, and by Hamas, only serve to further weaken the Israeli left and make peace and compromise less likely. Such attacks are also, simply, unacceptable.

Fair enough, Simon. To me, it's pretty clear that Arafat and his organisation are not in control of the terror bombing attacks. May not have been for some considerable time. It's one of the ways modern terror campaigns work. A mere handful of committed fanatics can cause untold amounts of damage. Deeply hidden `cells' can make them more, or less unaccountable. How do you control kamakzi's? The whole trick is to make the state react out of all proportion to the original crime. Thereby polarizing the situation.

State terror? That's quite another matter. What have we all got if not a working system of justice? Forget that and none of us are safe.

No. I've spoken up because not only is terrible damage being done to the Palestinians and the infra-structure of their scattered enclaves. It's is also being done to the spirit of Israel and its people. With consequences which reach far beyond that little land.
 
Take a look at where Hamas have their organisations situated then take a look at where the Israeli advances are. Saying that the Isreali advances are to stop the suicide attacks is rubbish.
 
A mere handful of committed fanatics can cause untold amounts of damage. Deeply hidden `cells' can make them more, or less unaccountable.

A recent poll showed that Palestinian support for the suicide bombings had fallen from roughly 65% to something like 55%. These are not small cells. Families are proud to send their sons (and now daughters too) to be martyred. The Palestinian legal system (sic) frequently releases arrested terrorists. Islamic Jihad which is Arafat's terrorist group is, basically, the Police (they are the same people in many instances).

Hamas, meanwhile, is not a secret illegal and underground organisation. It operates in public and claims to a social support organisation.

Palestinians cannot claim any moral advantage whilst the suicide bombings continue. More than that - they are wrong to assume that Israelis will make peace with people who would prefer that Israel did not exist and are committed to that aim.

IMO - the Palestinians would appear to still be at 'the long war' stage of their conflict. They need to move their thinking forward and realise that the war cannot be won. They need a change of heart. And probably a change of leadership too.

The Arab countries should have made peace with Israel many years ago.
 
A recent poll showed that Palestinian support for the suicide bombings had fallen from roughly 65% to something like 55%. These are not small cells. Families are proud to send their sons (and now daughters too) to be martyred.
If that's true, what sort of pressure would make mothers and fathers happy to see their chidren blow themselves up for a cause. Do you think it's just, religous, or nationalistic editfervouredit? I'll be honest, It beggars my imagination evey time I try to work it out.

No I don't see any short term solution at this rate. You say the Palestinians need a change of heart. What makes people so desperate they'll obliterate themselves if it means taking a few of the other side with them? Is it just fanaticism?

I worked on a kibbutz years ago, when the IRA member, Bobby Sands was coming to the end of his hunger strike in a British prison. The `kibbutz mother,' who was in charge of us volunteers, asked me, "How could the British allow this?"

She seemed genuinely puzzled. So was I and I still am. His suicidal gesture seemed editextraordinary and inexplicable to me. edit It certainly struck a chord with a lot of the older kibbutznicks who, I think, were reminded of their own struggles, with the British forces, amongst others. It certainly is a looking glass world, right enough.
 
A few key points

1) Islamic Jihad has no overt connections to Arafat, it is not the palestinian police, it is a small fanatical organisation with links to other Islamic Jihad groups in Egypt and other countries.

2) the group you are talking about is Fatah, which acts as Arafat personal guard and has a role in policing the Palestinian Authority.

3) the militant wing of Fatah, which has run out of control and is equivalent to the Provisional IRA in that it appears to be acting without the authority of Fatah or Arafat, is called the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade and has claimed responsibility for several shootings involving soldiers and civilians.

It is easy to stand around like our politicians do denouncing terrorist tactics (or guerilla warfare), but I seem to remember many members of the current labour party clamouring for the release of Nelson Mandela, a convicted terrorist in SA. Why is it morally ok for Mandela to bomb white civilian transport and heinous and immoral to bomb Israeli busses? Do people realise what the Palestinians are going through - infrastructure destroyed, their politicians incarcerated, assasinated and vilified in the press as terrorists just for belonging to the Authority? Have we already forgotten Jenin, or have we been convinced by the arch liar Sharron that all the people shot were armed militia, and that all the refugees in the camp were terrorists?

The point of Hamas style suicide terrorism is to prevent Israelis feeling safe in their homes and in their segregated communities, and remind them what Palestinian people have to suffer with every day. Every Israeli death is prtrayed as a tragedy, whilst every Palestinian death is portrayed as a pity, but somehow neccesary.

Ultimately their will never be peace in the region unless Israel becomes a secular country which is not based on Judaism. Whilst ultra-orthodox jews (often zionists) contend that arabs are sub-human and are treated as if there was an apartheid system in place, Palestinians of all ages will fight to be recognized as full members of society. A huge problem is education with both sides brainwashing their children into irrational hatred of the other side - spurred on by both governments and religios leaders. For this idiocy to stop will require the new generation of young intellectuals to challenge the misconceptions of their upbringing and rebel against the misanthropy of the embittered and embattled leaders of their respective communities.
 
Well said dot.

After all one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

I would imagine that we are going to see a lot more violence in the Middle East after the Egypts peace plan has been reject by the US. I just hope Bush can make some headway with Sharon this week.
 
I hope Bush and Sharron are sucked into a black hole and never seen again :devil: I also think Arafat is a tired old man who's career has failed and who should hand over the reigns of power to a younger moderate who can get results, and convince the average Israeli that they have nothing to fear from a Palestine state or Palestinian people at large.

Ordinary people on both sides are suffering because of the political machinations of the US, the UK, the Likud Party (and the small extreme parties who make up the coalition), and the Palestine Authority. Ordinary people want peace, want to live ordinary lives without the threat of bloodshed. Israeli and Palestinian women organised a peace march to Gaza but the Israeli women were turned back by their own soldiers. They are sick of it. It's time the UN was brought in, an international protectorate set up to govern Jerusalem and real prgoress made on the right to return, settlements and the creation of a Palestinian state.
 
Cross post - I've also stuck this on the Radio & TV reminders thread

BBC Radio 4 Thursday 20:00

'In The Club' : Programme about the Bilderberg Group.

Following up AndroMan's post.

The BBC Radio4 web page is here. The station is available live via the web. The programme will also be archived in Real Audio format on the web - if you miss it.

Thu 3 Jul, 20:00 - 20:30 30 mins - Club Class
The Bilderberg Group has been called the most exclusive, and secretive club in the world. To be admitted, you have to run a multinational bank, a giant corporation or a country. Since its first meeting in 1953, it has been attended by every British Prime Minister. But until now its very existence has been shrouded in secrecy.

Simon Cox investigates the hidden world of the Bilderberg Group. Is it the anti-democratic conspiracy that its critics allege or just a private meeting to help foster global understanding?
 
damn

me first post on Conspiracy in yonks and I'm about to announce the R4 prog I heard about this morning and alb has beat me to it

its a conspiracy

so is the fact that you cant seem to buy C120 casette tapes any more (I'll be out so planned to record it)

any interwurb radio fans know if you can listen to the prog afterwards on bbc.com?
 
When I was a child I had a toy/game called 'Build a Better Burger'. Hmmm.... Bilderburger conspiracy to enlist children?
 
ethelred : the programme will also be archived in Real Audio format on the web - if you miss it. At the radio 4 website.
 
alb said:
ethelred : the programme will also be archived in Real Audio format on the web - if you miss it. At the radio 4 website.

thanks for that alb

had some kid in a shop tells me they dont make C120s

"WELL THEY BLOODY USED TO"

then she gave me that "I have been trained to deal with irascable pensioners" smile

bah. Humbug
 
Hmm, it would appear that Ken Clarke was at this year's meeting. Thinking back to when Master Blair was there as Shadow Chancellor.. could we have a new Tory leader and Government waiting in the wings?
 
This is the Bilderberg's Plan

The gist of it is that corporate downsizing is designed to destroy the wealth of the middle classes to prevent them retiring earlty and to keep us all enslaved.

This must mean that the BBG believe that when people retire they are going to spend all there money on overthrowing the governement & global capitalism. I suppose some people will do that, personally I think most people will be spending their money on cars, houses and consumer goods. Thats certainly what I have in mind
 
Anyone heard of "le Cercle" or the "Pinay Cercle"? Here's a snip from the Guardian archives (c. april 2003) ...

Nadhmi Auchi - who has put a number of British politicians on the boards of his companies, including the former Foreign Office minister Keith Vaz - was arrested on Monday. Scotland Yard says he has been bailed to appear at Bow Street magistrates court on April 8 on three counts of conspiracy to defraud.

He was believed to have been advising British ministers on Iraq and to have sought a role in postwar Iraqi politics. He has also attended meetings of an intelligence-linked group Le Cercle, described as CIA-backed by the late Alan Clark, a participant and former Conservative minister.

His Le Cercle meetings - originally a cold war group of businessmen and politicians - have brought him into contact with political figures such as Lord Lamont and the Tory MP Alan Duncan, and with intelligence officers such as the former MI6 officer Anthony Cavendish and the former head of MI6's Middle East division, Geoffrey Tantum.

Also a link to Deep Black Lies

“Le Cercle” is recognised as a more clandestine sister organisation to the already very secretive Bilderberg Group [!] - a “behind-the-scenes ‘invisible’ influence” network. Both groups share a familiar membership which includes Henry Kissinger, Zbigniew Brzezinski and David Rockerfeller.
 
Bilderberg Conference 2004

Anyone going? ;)

Bilderberg Conferences

Bilderberg Conference 2004 - The 50th anniversary of the first meeting in 1954

Bilderberg conference 2004 - Stresa, Italy 3-6 June 2004 - 50th anniversary conference now in session

http://www.bilderberg.org/2004.htm

Bilderberg: The ultimate conspiracy theory

By Jonathan Duffy
BBC News Online

The Bilderberg group, an elite coterie of Western thinkers and power-brokers, has been accused of fixing the fate of the world behind closed doors. As the organisation marks its 50th anniversary, rumours are more rife than ever.

Given its reputation as perhaps the most powerful organisation in the world, the Bilderberg group doesn't go a bundle on its switchboard operations.

Telephone inquiries are met with an impersonal female voice - the Dutch equivalent of the BT Callminder woman - reciting back the number and inviting callers to "leave a message after the tone".

Anyone who accidentally dialled the number would probably think they had stumbled on just another residential answer machine.

But behind this ultra-modest façade lies one of the most controversial and hotly-debated alliances of our times.

On Thursday the Bilderberg group marks its 50th anniversary with the start of its yearly meeting.

For four days some of the West's chief political movers, business leaders, bankers, industrialists and strategic thinkers will hunker down in a five-star hotel in northern Italy to talk about global issues.

What sets Bilderberg apart from other high-powered get-togethers, such as the annual World Economic Forum (WEF), is its mystique.

Not a word of what is said at Bilderberg meetings can be breathed outside. No reporters are invited in and while confidential minutes of meetings are taken, names are not noted.

The shadowy aura extends further - the anonymous answerphone message, for example; the fact that conference venues are kept secret. The group, which includes luminaries such as Henry Kissinger and former UK chancellor Kenneth Clarke, does not even have a website.

DISCREET AND ELITE

This year Bilderberg has announced a list of attendees
They include BP chief John Browne, US Senator John Edwards, World Bank president James Wolfensohn and Mrs Bill Gates

In the void created by such aloofness, an extraordinary conspiracy theory has grown up around the group that alleges the fate of the world is largely decided by Bilderberg.

In Yugoslavia, leading Serbs have blamed Bilderberg for triggering the war which led to the downfall of Slobodan Milosevic. The Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh, the London nail-bomber David Copeland and Osama Bin Laden are all said to have bought into the theory that Bilderberg pulls the strings with which national governments dance.

And while hardline right-wingers and libertarians accuse Bilderberg of being a liberal Zionist plot, leftists such as activist Tony Gosling are equally critical.

A former journalist, Mr Gosling runs a campaign against the group from his home in Bristol, UK.

"My main problem is the secrecy. When so many people with so much power get together in one place I think we are owed an explanation of what is going on.

Mr Gosling seizes on a quote from Will Hutton, the British economist and a former Bilderberg delegate, who likened it to the annual WEF gathering where "the consensus established is the backdrop against which policy is made worldwide".

"One of the first places I heard about the determination of US forces to attack Iraq was from leaks that came out of the 2002 Bilderberg meeting," says Mr Gosling.

But "privacy, rather than secrecy", is key to such a meeting says Financial Times journalist Martin Wolf, who has been invited several times in a non-reporting role.

"The idea that such meetings cannot be held in private is fundamentally totalitarian," he says. "It's not an executive body; no decisions are taken there."

As an up-and-coming statesmen in the 1950s, Denis Healey, who went on to become a Labour chancellor, was one of the four founding members of Bilderberg (which was named after the hotel in Holland where the first meeting was held in 1954).

His response to claims that Bilderberg exerts a shadowy hand on the global tiller is met with characteristic bluntness. "Crap!"

"There's absolutely nothing in it. We never sought to reach a consensus on the big issues at Bilderberg. It's simply a place for discussion," says Lord Healey.

Formed in the spirit of post-war trans-Atlantic co-operation, the idea behind Bilderberg was that future wars could be prevented by bringing power-brokers together in an informal setting away from prying eyes.

"Bilderberg is the most useful international group I ever attended. The confidentiality enabled people to speak honestly without fear of repercussions.

"In my experience the most useful meetings are those when one is free to speak openly and honestly. It's not unusual at all. Cabinet meetings in all countries are held behind closed doors and the minutes are not published."

That activists have seized on Bilderberg is no surprise to Alasdair Spark, an expert in conspiracy theories.

"The idea that a shadowy clique is running the world is nothing new. For hundreds of years people have believed the world is governed by a cabal of Jews.

"Shouldn't we expect that the rich and powerful organise things in their own interests. It's called capitalism."

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/magazine/3773019.stm

Published: 2004/06/03 11:34:47 GMT

© BBC MMIV

------------------------------------------
For reports on the 2002 meeting see:

http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3838

Emps
 
Includes June 6, huh? Explains why some politicians won't be at the D-Day commemorations.
 
Hermes said:
Includes June 6, huh? Explains why some politicians won't be at the D-Day commemorations.

No they have urmmmm longstanding some golf stuff appointment thingy to go to and had, sort of, forgotten to urmmmmmmmm get their secretary to mark the D-Day commemorations in their diary, probably. Honest injun.

Emps
 
Interestingly, all the Scottish tabloids were up in arms today because First Minister Jack McConell was scheduled to be "playing golf instead of hanging his head in honour of D-Day veterans".


...although further reading reveals this to be an anniversary dinner of the Royal and Ancient club at St Andrews :)

GB - Verwaayen, Ben J. M. - CEO, British Telecom; former director, Lucent Technologies
Interesting one, anyone following the letters page in the Times will note that Mr Verwaayen will respond to personal emails to [email protected], at least if it's about BT customers' service. Someone should try emailing him about Bilderberg, or at least emailing him just now to see if he takes longer to reply. Who knows, you might be able to trace his IP back to the conference hotel :D
 
What I find interesting about this is the fact that the BBC are reporting on the forthcoming Bilderberg meeting.

I have recently been reading Robin Ramsay's excellent Pocket Essential on Conspiracy Theories. It was written in 2000.

At the time of writing, mainstream reporting of Bilderberg was pretty much unheard of and no hack would waste his time - as no mainstream editor would print any piece on Bilderberg.

Since then, we have had Jon Ronson on Channel 4 (and book published by mainstream publisher), Dennis Healey's public interviews where he will entertain discussion of certain Bilderberg questions, and now the BBC.

What does this mean?

That Bilderberg is not and never has been powerful enough to silence the press - the press just were not interested? (unlikely - I would need to check my references for this - but am sure there are examples of journalists having Bilderberg articles pulled from mainstream newspapers and then being given the sack).

A media less cowed by the power of Bilderberg? (unlikely - particularly the BBC post-Hutton)

A media offensive by the Bilderberg group to make it appear less secret - and hence less powerful? (possible - in this PR age I could believe that Bilderberg could start to think it could cover up its power through a PR offensive!)

But, most likely, I would suggest the following.

If I was a member of a group, that needed secrecy to operate behind the scenes of power - and that group became well known by the public I would:

1. Set up a new group - to operate in secrecy.
2. Carry on with the old group - in the public eye - making it appear that screcy was required but releasing enough information to make it look less frightening.
3. Deal with important matters at the replacement group. Using the old group as a smoke screen.

Well, its a theory.

Any suggestions as to the replacement Bilderberg?
 
Yep I agree - there are 2 main explanations as far as I'm concerned:

1. There was never anything really sinister going on.

2. The groups is now (or always has been) a distraction from the real group and their work - basic magician's trickery ;)

Emps
 
Do you really think the general public cares enough that they need to hide it?
 
taras said:
Do you really think the general public cares enough that they need to hide it?

Dunno - all that needs to happen is for them to think that the public cares enough ;)

Emps
 
Emperor said:
Dunno - all that needs to happen is for them to think that the public cares enough ;)

Emps

Absolutely - and this did concern them - up until very recently - as it was a media black-list subject. Why media blacklist if secrecy was not considered important?

Whether there was anything sinister going on is really a matter for personal interpretation. Does an annual meeting of powerful people give reason for concern? Bearing in mind that attendance at these meeting seems to be a prerequisite for success in politics/industry.

Personally, I'm kind of with Dennis Healy on this (but, then again I have to declare an interest as I really quite like the old boy). Its just the way that things get done. Personal networking is a key facet to success in life - whether for a career in politics, insurance, counselling, whatever... Its all the same.

However, I can understand why others find Bilderberg (and other similar groups) an afront to a sense of justice, freedom and liberty. In any case, it is fair to say that, in the loose sense, there is a conspiracy at work. To those people - the secrecy is proof of the problem. So, make it seem less secret and perhaps the problem goes away.

Although, if that were the case, the BBC report would be less likely to come across as enhancing the secretive nature of Bilderberg.

Interesting - information and disinformation? Where is the light at the end of this tunnel.....
 
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