The Book with Seven Seals - FOUND and Identified

[Hedgewizard]

Wow, a CD-ROM that matches the description given in an ancient text!

COuld it possibly be that the people who created teh CD-ROM used the text as their guide? Occam's razor would indicate such. Then we wouldn't have to bring in time travel and all that other nonsense.

 

[Blinko_Glick]

Back engineered profit margins! I love it.

What can we do to make a buck I wonder?

Oh, I know - someone sent a clockwork mini computer back to ancient Greece the other day near Antikythera.

I have evidence because they found a clockwork mini computer in 1901 encrusted with rock and estimated to be 2000 years old.

Helped to calculate longitude or something. Which is why they sent it back, so that Europeans could navigate the Atlantic and discover America.

What do you mean 1421?

Read it in my book.....

 

[Spookdaddy]

It doesn't make any sense. Why are time travellers showing the ancients a rather dated CD-ROM? Even if they were to do so, as Twin Star says, why not take a later laptop which would have the advantage of being faster, lighter and with a longer-life battery?

Maybe they were retro stylee time-travellers.

Retro time-travellers?

Hmmm, thinks - If your a time-traveller everything is both retro and futuristic at once.

...ow, I've just made my own head hurt.

 

[stu neville]

Love the fact that you only get "decent" information by paying money makes me think the whole story is a huge advertising campain.

Ding0667, I suggest you read all the available information before you make such blatantly incorrect statements in the future.

Well, quite. I mean, using spoiler information regarding what is clearly ground-breaking and entirely revolutionary evidence of time travel as a shill to publicise a saleable commodity or even a blatant fiction would be disappointing to the cautious but ever-optimistic Fortean, besides being decidedly not-cricket. I doubt that any contributors, old or new, to this board would stoop to such underhand methods, particularly those with genuine, testable and transparent proof of one of the most enduring mysteries of the Fortean canon.

Am I right, Mr Pengelly?

 

[Eddy_Pen]

OR he could be taking a glass photographic negative out of that box....

and

Yep, that's exactly what it looks like!

Yes it does…
Except the witnesses wrote an account of what that ‘plate’ contained.

I have addressed this issue elsewhere as follows…(extract used with permission)…
>
Isn't this 1827 picture of Joseph Smith and his witnesses, just showing a glass plate with his fingers showing through, and not a plastic CD container ?

It does look like a glass plate, doesn't it, and historically, photographic glass plates of that size were invented in that century, around the year Joseph Smith took possession of his "religious" articles. Add to this the fact that plastic was not discovered until much later, the notion of it being a plastic compact disk container seems to go against logic.

So we must carefully evaluate all the evidence to enable us to make a conclusion whether this is a picture of a glass (photographic) plate or a plastic compact disk container.

Glass Plate
In 1822 the "Camera", and in 1826 "Photography" were invented by Joseph Niepce. These devices utilized photographic glass "plates" and varied in size, but were approximately six to eight inches square and contained an image on the face of the glass when exposed. So they either had an image on them when they were exposed, or were blank and clear before they were exposed. Other than that, there was no content within the plate itself.

Plastic Container
On page 27 of the Mormon publication (6/95) "Truth Restored" is a picture of the Eight Witnesses and Smith holding the above box, and is partly entitled "and held in their hands the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated".

On the 'Brief Explanation About' page of The Book of Mormon, it is explained that "the teachings of the prophets; the history by Mormon; a commentary by Moroni; and a record of the Jews" were contained in these plates.
(Could a blank glass plate contain all that information ?)

One plate in particular, The Plate of Brass, is said to have contained "the five books of Moses, a record of the Jews, and also the prophecies of the holy prophets". These are referring to the Pentateuch, the Historical Writings (of Kings and Chronicles for example), and the Prophetic books.

Comparison
Visual evidence from the above picture gives that either a glass plate or a plastic compact disk container is being held in the person's hand.
Now to take into account what was contained in that plate.

Does a blank, unexposed (or exposed) glass photographic plate (of the mid 1800s) contain "the five books of Moses, the Historical Writings of the Jews, and the prophecies of the holy prophets" ?

NO

This is the Holy Bible CD-Rom. It is a brass colour.
A compact disk looks somewhat like a plate.
Compact disks are normally housed in a plastic container.
They can contain much information.

Does this Brass Plate contain "the five books of Moses, the Historical Writings of the Jews, and the prophecies of the holy prophets" ?

YES

From the visual and documented evidence, the glass photographic plate is NOT the answer.
>

 

[Eddy_Pen]

Wow, a CD-ROM that matches the description given in an ancient text!
COuld it possibly be that the people who created teh CD-ROM used the text as their guide? Occam's razor would indicate such. Then we wouldn't have to bring in time travel and all that other nonsense.

I have addressed this issue elsewhere as follows…(extract used with permission)…
>
(Introduction)
One set of matching details could just be a coincidence, and could be the result of the makers
of the cd-rom using one particular set of ancient descriptions as their source and inspiration.
Maybe also two or three (or four) could be passed off as 'just coincidences'.
But ten ancient sets of details from different time periods and countries matching is beyond a coincidence.

The same set of descriptions turn up in many ancient stories where most are associated with a messenger turning up in a bright light (or 'dream') carrying a stone of testimony (aka. wheel, tablet, plate, or disc) which tells of future things and provides 'visions'. These extra associated characteristics indicate that the same source was viewed by all the ancient writers and story tellers by the same means - and not that any one ancient story was the source used by the makers of the cd-rom for their imagery.
.
.
Regarding people's own conclusions, we are often asked, concerning the observed evidence from these experiments as being identical or very close to the Ancients cd-rom pictures...

Is the imagery, on the cd-rom, evidence of someone or a group of people travelling back in time and showing the ancient people the images from it, or was the Ancients cd-rom created by people that have read any or all of the texts? They may have only been inspired, even subconsciously, to make the cd-rom the same or very similar to what is in the ancient texts.

If the descriptions in the Atlantis dialogues by Plato only matched to the cd-rom imagery, then, yes, you would have to conclude that the makers of the cd-rom used the Atlantis descriptions as inspiration.

If the descriptions in the Bablylonian stories only matched to the cd-rom imagery, then, yes, you would have to conclude that the makers of the cd-rom used Bablylonian descriptions as inspiration.

If...Akkadian…Aboriginal Dreamtime Stories...North American Indian Mythologies...Buddhism & Hindu Understanding...Old Testament...New Testament...Qur'an...Book of Mormon...each only matched, then, yes……

But all of the above cultures that DO match to the imagery from the Ancients cd-rom are NOT part of the history contained on that cd-rom. So why would the makers use imagery from over ten other cultures that they are not presenting on the cd-rom ?

The civilizations presented are from around the Mediterranean region from betwen 2000 BCE and 476 CE, being Etruria, Carthage, Roman Empire, Greece, Phoenicia and Egypt.
(The Egyptian section only presents seven video shows, and not pages of pictures.)

The Etrurian section shows things Eturian…
The Roman section shows things Roman…
The Greece section shows things Greek…
The Phoenician section shows things Phoenician…
The Carthage section shows things Carthagian…
…and NOT anything to do with Altantis, Babylon, Akkadia, Aboriginal Dreamtime Stories...North American Indian Mythologies...Buddhism & Hindu Understanding...Old Testament...New Testament...Qur'an, nor Book of Mormon.

Specifically...
Regarding: "Is the imagery, on the cd-rom, evidence of someone or a group of people traveling back in time and showing the ancient people the images from it."

Based upon ten years of investigations - we believe yes. In the Old Testament (Ezekiel), New Testament (Revelation), and Qur'an (Mohammed) encounters where the cd-rom imagery is described, there is an Angel reported as being present, and in the Bible accounts, this angel has a 'sealed book with seven seals' that is opened, and from which 'visions' are seen by the prophet. That prophet's descriptions of these 'visions' are of the contents of the Ancients cd-rom.

We conclude that this 'angel' is some form of time traveller.
>

 

[stu neville]

Isn't this 1827 picture of Joseph Smith and his witnesses, just showing a glass plate with his fingers showing through, and not a plastic CD container ?

It does look like a glass plate, doesn't it, and historically, photographic glass plates of that size were invented in that century, around the year Joseph Smith took possession of his "religious" articles....

Glass Plate
In 1822 the "Camera", and in 1826 "Photography" were invented by Joseph Niepce. These devices utilized photographic glass "plates" and varied in size, but were approximately six to eight inches square and contained an image on the face of the glass when exposed. So they either had an image on them when they were exposed, or were blank and clear before they were exposed. Other than that, there was no content within the plate itself.

For a start, it's not an 1827 photograph. It can't be - Niepce's process at that time was called the heliograph, and involved tremendously long exposure times: images of anything remotely mobile were impossible to capture. All heliographs, daguerreotypes and proto-photographs were perforce still-life until 1839 when Daguerre himself caught an image of a man receiving a shoe-shine on a Parisian boulevard, which was in fact the intended subject of the picture: the shinee was motionless for just long enough to be picked up by the camera.

For this reason the picture of Joseph Smith can't possibly date before 1839 at the very earliest. Unless the time travellers had something to do with that as well...

You see, Eddy Pen, it's easily checkable killer facts like these that will cast doubt on any, more outre pronouncements you may subsequently make. The Fortean mindset is very tolerant to new concepts, certainly, but please don't mistake that for credulity. To that end, would you care to address my post directly preceding your last two, as I'm sure some assurances would go a long way with those patiently following this thread.

 

[Eddy_Pen]

Joseph Smith Jnr (mid 1800s) documents holding plastic cd-rom Jewel Cases (see pic) - being the 'breatplates' to which were fastened the 'seer stones'.

Why would the CDs be known as 'Seer Stones'? Theres really not much stone-like about a CD. They don't look or feel like stones and they bend.

I have addressed this issue elsewhere as follows…(extract used with permission)…
>
When compact disks were seen in the ancient past they were known by several different names.

Seer Stones were mentioned in ancient Babylonia as Tablets of Ashurbanipal. Speaking with the gods was done via an altar, with an altar for this purpose being mentioned in most other Religions too.

At the Egyptian Temple in Elephantine the god Khnum was said to use a "potter's wheel", and it was said that the earth was flat with a circular ocean.

Two descriptive names from the Sumerian stories tell us about two Tablets; being the 'Destiny of Civilization' and the 'Fate of the world'.

The Hindu god of wisdom (Ganesha) is the 'Lord of the Wheel' and is associated with a wheel, a sacred thread and a mouse, while Vishnu holds the "sun-disk".

The Celtic Arianrhod was a 'silver wheel'.

The Oracles that were reported as being active throughout the Mediterranean region in ancient times needed a human medium to bring forth their wisdom.

This information establishes that two Tablets were being used in the Middle East before the biblically described two "Tables of Stone" that are documented in the Bible story about the Egyptian character Moses, and that they were something akin to a silver sun-disk on a potter's wheel (or altar), with a human medium involved using a sacred thread and a mouse. (Moses called the disk a 'tablet' and used his 'staff'.)

From ancient Greek and Egyptian descriptions, a flat circular earth map is associated with the 'Destiny of Civilizations' table, with the 'Fate' table being the "green one", plus a Brass table being described by a certain group of Hebrews. Also from ancient Middle Eastern stories are several reports of a "Black Rock" from heaven.
These ancient Tables (tablets) are associated with a theme of either 'civilizations', history' (fate), 'astronomy' (heaven), and the 'Book of Moses'. They have the combined attributes of a flat silver wheel, with one being the Sun-disk, and the others coloured Green, Black, and Brass.

These are ancient descriptions of four specific compact disks - being the "four rings" associated with the "Ark of the Covenant" (ie. literal translation: ‘box of compacts’).

1. Ancient Civilizations of the Mediteranean is about civilizations and has what appears to be the face of the Sun-god on it.

2. Grolier Encyclopedia is about history.

3. RedShift2 is about 'the heavens' and is an astronomy presentation.

4. The Holy Bible is a digital copy of 'The Bible'.
>

Another association of a plastic cd-case with a ‘stone’ is that the cd-case is called a Jewel Case: and a jewel is usually some sort of precious stone.

 

[Eddy_Pen]

Well, quite. I mean, using spoiler information regarding what is clearly ground-breaking and entirely revolutionary evidence of time travel as a shill to publicise a saleable commodity or even a blatant fiction would be disappointing to the cautious but ever-optimistic Fortean, besides being decidedly not-cricket. I doubt that any contributors, old or new, to this board would stoop to such underhand methods, particularly those with genuine, testable and transparent proof of one of the most enduring mysteries of the Fortean canon.

Am I right, Mr Pengelly?

.
NO.
Refer to the OP.

It is an interactive on-line evaluation - end of story.
There are no books for sale.
.
Later, (due to some people not actually completing the evaluation of 10 texts nor reading all the information provided via extra links in subsequent posts) in answer to a general “where is your evidence” - I gave links to that general evidence.

The OP has no books for sale.

The WESITE links given provide free information, plus links to further free study of the topics.
The next set of links do in fact provide more information in books that may be purchased, but only if you have not read the websites AND you are to personally attend the PPHC Study Group rooms for their seminars.

To refresh your memory:

Love the fact that you only get "decent" information by paying money makes me think the whole story is a huge advertising campain.

No.
There is a vast quantity of information on the three websites previously cited.

1). A brief overview of 10 Texts that describe DOOPArts, plus two comprehensive reports, and a major summary.
Link: www.worldbreakingdiscoveries.com.au/dooparts

2). The main News & Information website that has a preamble, introduction, and a comprehensive Overview of Findings that includes visual comparisons to ancient descriptions.
Link: www.worldbreakingdiscoveries.com.aul

3). A personal resource and Study Website.
Link: www.pphcstudygroup.org.aul

Then in answer to “show me the evidence…

So do you have any evidence for this, at all?

Yes.
Website: LINK

Summary E-Book: LINK

Specific REPORTS (as E-Books): LINK
as printed books,
AUSTRALIA Only: LINK

 

[stu neville]

Well, quite. I mean, using spoiler information regarding what is clearly ground-breaking and entirely revolutionary evidence of time travel as a shill to publicise a saleable commodity or even a blatant fiction would be disappointing to the cautious but ever-optimistic Fortean, besides being decidedly not-cricket. I doubt that any contributors, old or new, to this board would stoop to such underhand methods, particularly those with genuine, testable and transparent proof of one of the most enduring mysteries of the Fortean canon.

Am I right, Mr Pengelly?

.
NO.
Refer to the OP.

It is an interactive on-line evaluation - end of story.
There are no books for sale.

So by "No" you mean I am right in surmising that this is not some form of viral advertising, yes?

OK.

BTW my memory needed no refreshment, but on behalf of the posters to this thread I thought a little clarification would go a long way. While we're at it, have you any observations on the photography date issue?

 

[Timble2]

Joseph Smith's seer stone wasn't a disk was it a "chocolate egg-shaped stone" and the gold were, from the description actually metal books...nothing in the least like a CD-ROM.

http://www.mrm.org/translation

Khnum used a potter's wheel to make humans and animals from clay, a magical use of a potter's wheel, but not a CD ROM...

The Aten was round, because the Sun's round, nothing to do with CD-ROMs...

 

[Ginando]

Re: Computer Parts Described in the Bible

A PC 386 desktop computer was taken back to the past and used, and is also described in the Bible.

While you clearly believe or want this to be true, I find it odd that after searching more than a few databases on the internet, that everybody else seems to be saying a cubit equates to the length of the forearm, and seems to indicate a dimension of 17 to 22 inches. Nobody else opts for figures much outwith this range, but in the link you provided http://www.worldbreakingdiscoveries.com ... puter.html
the figures appear manipulated to fit the theories propounded. Thus your figures of a box measuring 2.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 handspans (ie.cubits) or 9" x 5.5" x 5.5" seems wholly at odds with a box which according to most other scholars would be a minimum of 40" x 26" x 26". I fail to see how your cubit is a hand span or palm when scholars again all seem agreed that the cubit was made up of 7 palms and a palm was 4 fingers.

Furthermore it is then suggested this cubit measurement isn't a measurement per se, but simply means a measurement, 'Hebrew word 520 "cubit" means 'a unit of measure', and is a prolonged version of word 517 which when sounded gives 'em'. Prolonging this gives "em-em".
A 'mm' is the abbreviation for a millimetre. So in the Bible a "cubit" refers to the metric system. Here a 'cubit' represents 1 centimetre, so the above box was actually 300cm x 50cm x 30cm. That's three metres long, half a metre wide, and 300 mm (about a foot) high'
Therefore again we see a manipulation or wholesale misrepresentation to make the text fit the theory.

 

[Pete Younger]

So is this flogged horse dead at last?

 

[Eddy_Pen]

I have wheels on my car - they're silver..does'nt make them compact disks....My mum keeps her face powder in a compact that is also disk shaped. Shockingly it fails to contain any biblical texts.
Unfortunately saying that something is a CD does not make it so...also I cant help noticing that the 'brass coloured Holy Bible' CD appears to be in modern English.

The Mormon witnesses documented what was contained within the ‘plate’ (ie. artefact), being the five books of Moses, the Historical Writings of the Jews, and the prophecies of the holy prophets.

Do your silver car wheels, while possibly disk-like, contain the above ?
NO, so they are not the artefact identified by Pegg.

Does your mum’s powder compact, while disk-like, contain the above ?
NO, so it is not the artefact identified by Pegg - as you have pointed out.

This is the whole point !!!

Does the ‘Brass Plate’ artefact that was in the clear plate held by the Mormon witnesses and said to contain "the five books of Moses, the Historical Writings of the Jews, and the prophecies of the holy prophets" match to the contents of the brass coloured The Holy Bible cd-rom ?
YES
Therefore it was the brass coloured cd being described by the Mormon witnesses, as a blank mid 1800s photographic plate nor a piece of clear glass do not accommodate a compact disk that contains the same contents as the Holy Bible cd-rom..

The Mormon witness’s descriptions are not in modern English (regarding the Holy Bible CD being in modern English of the 1990s), they are in modern American English of the mid 1800s.

Joseph Smith's seer stone wasn't a disk was it a "chocolate egg-shaped stone" and the gold were, from the description actually metal books...nothing in the least like a CD-ROM.

* “There was a book deposited, written upon gold plates” is to what your “gold…metal books” refer. These are not the cd-roms.

* Quotes from the Book of Mormon, from the ‘Testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith’ page.

The compact disks are only mentioned as “and artefacts”, but described as

* “Also, that there were two stones in silver bows - and these stones, fastened to a breastplate” is describing two compact disks (the 2 stones) in jewel cases (silver bows), being fastened to the retaining pin (ie. the breastplate) of their jewel cases.

 

[Eddy_Pen]

Re: Computer Parts Described in the Bible

A PC 386 desktop computer was taken back to the past and used, and is also described in the Bible.

While you clearly believe or want this to be true, I find it odd that after searching more than a few databases on the internet, that everybody else seems to be saying a cubit equates to the length of the forearm, and seems to indicate a dimension of 17 to 22 inches. Nobody else opts for figures much outwith this range, but in the link you provided the figures appear manipulated to fit the theories propounded. Thus your figures of a box measuring 2.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 handspans (ie.cubits) or 9" x 5.5" x 5.5" seems wholly at odds with a box which according to most other scholars would be a minimum of 40" x 26" x 26". I fail to see how your cubit is a hand span or palm when scholars again all seem agreed that the cubit was made up of 7 palms and a palm was 4 fingers.

In the Lexicon of Strong’s Concordance Hebrew word 520 "cubit" means ‘a unit of measure’. Other than that, it doesn’t define the exact measurement.
The scholarly notations you cite, such as an Egyptian Royal cubit and a natural cubit are units of measurement, are different, being 523 to 525 mm (20.6 to 20.64 inches) and 450mm (18 inches) respectively.

A CUBIT as defined by the original Hebrew meaning, in this context, is therefore the width of a hand.
This is its original Hebrew meaning.
It is the preceived “forearm” measurement that you cite that is the manipulated meaning.

Is my assertion supported elsewhere in the Bible ?
Yes, in the Bible the CUBIT measurement is further defined. Word 1574 "cubit" comes from an unused root meaning ‘to grasp’ (with the hand), and means ‘span’. This means that a ‘span’ has something to do with a ‘hand’. A "handbreadth" is the breadth of a human palm, being between 8 and 10cm. Thus a "cubit" in this case refers to the span of the palm, being roughly 9cm (or 3.5 inches).

links to "handbreadth"

http://dictionary.infoplease.com/handbreadth
a unit of linear measure from 2½ to 4 in. (6.4 to 10 cm). Also, hand's-breadth.

http://www.answers.com/topic/handbreadth
A linear measurement approximating the width of the palm of the hand, from 21/2 to 4 inches (6.25 to 10 centimeters).

I restate my measurement of about 3.5 inches, and reject the religiously deemed and perceived manipulated ‘length of a forearm’ based upon what CUBIT originally meant in the Hebrew context (and not the subsequent Egyptian and Roman religious measurements).

Furthermore it is then suggested this cubit measurement isn't a measurement per se, but simply means a measurement, 'Hebrew word 520 "cubit" means 'a unit of measure', and is a prolonged version of word 517 which when sounded gives 'em'. Prolonging this gives "em-em".
A 'mm' is the abbreviation for a millimetre. So in the Bible a "cubit" refers to the metric system. Here a 'cubit' represents 1 centimetre, so the above box was actually 300cm x 50cm x 30cm. That's three metres long, half a metre wide, and 300 mm (about a foot) high'
Therefore again we see a manipulation or wholesale misrepresentation to make the text fit the theory.

Again, NO, as stated earlier.
Using the origins of the Hebrew sounding of the word CUBIT as “m” (as stated in Strong’s Concordance, via its etymology), giving “m-m” as the sound told to Moses as the length of the Ark - being millimetres.

But Ronald Pegg was not using the Concordance as a translating tool. He was using it as a decoding tool.
He found an encoded "rule" stated in the Bible that says a 10 / 100 / 1000 ratio is valid, thus the measurements CAN be 1mm / 1cm / 10cm.

Some people still cite "by all of the definitions of the egyptians and romans et al" in regard to ''cubits'', but it was the Romans who misinterpreted Paul''s encounter with a time traveller and the cd-roms, and thus incorrect translations and perceptions of what was viewed have cascaded into the "religious accounts" that are now commonly known as the English translation of the Bible. You are in fact citing the people who first gave an incorrect account of what occurred - as your basis for your ''knowledge about cubits being the length of an arm, etc''.

In a comprehensive Ezekiel investigation, when ''cubits'' are used as 1mm on screen, the measurements of EZEKIEL''s Temple as documented by him in circa 600BCE over two chapters exactly describe the Etruscan Temple from the Ancients cd-rom.

So to sum up, Ronald Pegg was not using Strong''s Concordance as a translating tool, he was using it a a decoding device that had been placed therein by time travellers who knew that the modern English translations of the Bible (via the earlier roman priests, etc.) were mostly incorrect.

A CUBIT could be the width of a hand, or the length of a forearm, or in a different context, 1mm.
In Ezekiel, where the length of the soldier’s arm is “six cubits” Ronald Pegg sets the context as “a picture on the Ancientscd-rom”. (See study of Ezekiel 40:2-5)
When used in this context, the Temple Measurements on screen match to millimetres on a plastic metric ruler.

In the other Bible cases cited by Pegg where a cubit is shown to be 1mm and 10mm (1cm), he employed the decoding rule (not a translation but a deciphering of encoded data) that he found in the Bible. In his Booklet #1 entitled ‘The Learning Curve’, on page 103 he explained it thus…
>
C6 A Mathematical RATIO
Exodus 16:36 "Now an omer is the tenth part of an ephah" is a mathematical formula. Omer = Ephah/10. It indicates that things can be written as a ''tenth'' of something else. In Judges 20:10 three examples of this 1 in 10 ratio is given; "Ten of an hundred; an hundred of a thousand; and a thousand out of ten thousand." This ratio of writing Biblical numbers as ten percent of the historical data is used for the large number of troops over the 1,000 configuration.
>

When applied to a CUBIT (being a ‘unit of measurement’) - the unit of measurement, depending on context, can be either 10mm or 1mm (ie. 10 percent smaller) or the unit width of a hand (8.1cm).

When a cubit from Noah’s Ark (a boat of animals) is used as deemed by the contemporary religious measurement, we have a large boat of animals that can not be confirmed and logic derives that it is just a story.
BUT when the context changes to a picture on a computer screen with 1 cubit = 1mm (being a unit of measurement), a transport box for a 386 PC desktop computer with the screen showing ‘animals’ matches and thus solves the riddle of ‘What was Noah’s Ark ?’

 

[_Lizard23_]

Wonderful! :lol:

I am utterly convinced.

I'm actually in Manali now, in the Indian Himalayas, where Manu, the Hindu 'Noah' 'landed' .... do you want me to look for clues?

 

[Peripart]

Fascinating stuff, although my mental jury is still out, and they've just ordered sandwiches, so it could be some time...


I'm reminded of the film The Time machine (the Rod Taylor one), where the Eloi get their information from "spinning rings that talk". Now, I can't vouch for the original book, unfortunately, because I don't have a copy to hand (in fact, I've just scanned the text online, and I'm pretty certain the book makes no mention).

However, even if these rings were an invention of the 1960 movie, I find it interesting how this film almost predicted CD-roms - if only they had spun the rings on their axes, rather than like coins on a tabletop, they would have been there.

 

[Mythopoeika]

However, even if these rings were an invention of the 1960 movie, I find it interesting how this film almost predicted CD-roms - if only they had spun the rings on their axes, rather than like coins on a tabletop, they would have been there.

You mean spinning them like coins doesn't work? I've been doing it wrong all these years...

 

[_Lizard23_]

Yeah, you need an axe.

 

[Ginando]

Re: Computer Parts Described in the Bible

A PC 386 desktop computer was taken back to the past and used, and is also described in the Bible.

Furthermore it is then suggested this cubit measurement isn't a measurement per se, but simply means a measurement, 'Hebrew word 520 "cubit" means 'a unit of measure', and is a prolonged version of word 517 which when sounded gives 'em'. Prolonging this gives "em-em".
A 'mm' is the abbreviation for a millimetre. So in the Bible a "cubit" refers to the metric system. Here a 'cubit' represents 1 centimetre, so the above box was actually 300cm x 50cm x 30cm. That's three metres long, half a metre wide, and 300 mm (about a foot) high'
Therefore again we see a manipulation or wholesale misrepresentation to make the text fit the theory.

Again, NO, as stated earlier.
Using the origins of the Hebrew sounding of the word CUBIT as “m” (as stated in Strong’s Concordance, via its etymology), giving “m-m” as the sound told to Moses as the length of the Ark - being millimetres.

So to sum up, Ronald Pegg was not using Strong''s Concordance as a translating tool, he was using it a a decoding device that had been placed therein by time travellers who knew that the modern English translations of the Bible (via the earlier roman priests, etc.) were mostly incorrect.

A CUBIT could be the width of a hand, or the length of a forearm, or in a different context, 1mm.

In the other Bible cases cited by Pegg where a cubit is shown to be 1mm and 10mm (1cm), he employed the decoding rule (not a translation but a deciphering of encoded data) that he found in the Bible. In his Booklet #1 entitled ‘The Learning Curve’, on page 103 he explained it thus…
>
C6 A Mathematical RATIO
Exodus 16:36 "Now an omer is the tenth part of an ephah" is a mathematical formula. Omer = Ephah/10. It indicates that things can be written as a ''tenth'' of something else. In Judges 20:10 three examples of this 1 in 10 ratio is given; "Ten of an hundred; an hundred of a thousand; and a thousand out of ten thousand." This ratio of writing Biblical numbers as ten percent of the historical data is used for the large number of troops over the 1,000 configuration.
>

When applied to a CUBIT (being a ‘unit of measurement’) - the unit of measurement, depending on context, can be either 10mm or 1mm (ie. 10 percent smaller) or the unit width of a hand (8.1cm).

When a cubit from Noah’s Ark (a boat of animals) is used as deemed by the contemporary religious measurement, we have a large boat of animals that can not be confirmed and logic derives that it is just a story.
BUT when the context changes to a picture on a computer screen with 1 cubit = 1mm (being a unit of measurement), a transport box for a 386 PC desktop computer with the screen showing ‘animals’ matches and thus solves the riddle of ‘What was Noah’s Ark ?’

I'll ignore the advice of one of our members who says its pointless arguing with a believer. I want to make a point about your gross manipulation and misinterpretation of information in the bible. First and foremost, the only real way to interpret what is written would be to examine the original text of the books of the bible. None of these were written in English so immediately there is an issue of translation.

Furthermore, your suggestion that Strong's Concordance backs up your conjecture Hebrew word 520 "cubit" means 'a unit of measure', and is a prolonged version of word 517 which when sounded gives 'em'. Prolonging this gives "em-em simply doesn't stand up to any scrutiny even by non Hebrew/Biblical scholars. I quote from the Concordance 520 'ammah am-maw' prolonged from 517; properly, a mother (i.e. unit of measure, or the fore-arm (below the elbow), i.e. a cubit; also a door-base (as a bond of the entrance):--cubit, + hundred (by exchange for 3967), measure, post. I.E. unit of measure or the forearm. Therefore by your argument the Concordance is wrong, and therefore taking this to a logical conclusion if anyone uses the Concordance to translate or decode the bible, they are using a flawed document.

Even if you ignore all that, the bible discusses objects which are still known to modern man and from which we can make an educated guess at the dimensions of the object in question. Here are just a sample.

Jdg 3:16 But Ehud made him a dagger which had two edges, of a cubit length; and he did gird it under his raiment upon his right thigh. It's fair, is it not, to assume the biblical dagger was likely to be a short sword which Ehud carried down his thigh and it's fair to asume Ehud was likely to be a male of even average height, so a cubit in length indicates a short sword or longish dagger 17 to 20 inches long. Or are we saying its a miniature object based on your figures?

Eze 40:42 And the four tables [were] of hewn stone for the burnt offering, of a cubit and an half long, and a cubit and an half broad, and one cubit high: whereupon also they laid the instruments wherewith they slew the burnt offering and the sacrifice. These burnt offerings were likely to be a sheep or a goat, so again it is reasonable to infer the size of the table from this.

Finally there is the lengthy description of the construction of the Tabernacle in Exodus 25 to 30. http://www.blueletterbible.org is easy to search for the relevant chapters. The point being there are lengthy and detailed descriptions of items which we can readily have an educated guess at dimensions and which point to a cubit being the length everyone else agrees on i.e. 17 to 20 inches.

 

[Eddy_Pen]

Re: Computer Parts Described in the Bible

To quote your quote from Strong's Concordance...

I quote from the Concordance 520 'ammah am-maw' prolonged from 517; properly, a mother (i.e. unit of measure, or the fore-arm (below the elbow), i.e. a cubit; also a door-base (as a bond of the entrance):--cubit, + hundred (by exchange for 3967), measure, post. I.E. unit of measure or the forearm. Therefore by your argument the Concordance is wrong, and therefore taking this to a logical conclusion if anyone uses the Concordance to translate or decode the bible, they are using a flawed document.

It says (in part) "properly, a mother (i.e. unit of measure, or the fore-arm (below the elbow)"
In your reply while you have written the words "I.E. unit of measure, or", it is still stated that an alternative meaning to 'the fore-arm' IS "a unit of measure".
This is upon which Ronald Pegg says the meaning when used in the context of ancient 'stones' is referring to modern cd-roms.

In stating your case about taking the concordance and using its logic to translate/decode, YOU have deliberately not acknowledged these words in the Concordance that backs up Pegg's position.
.
Also regarding a 'lengthy Biblical description', in the Book of Ezekiel, from 104 verses spanning 8 chapters, 198 matches to pictures and/or measurements from a modern cd-rom have been found - when 'a unit of measurement' is employed (not being the length of a fore-arm).

A copy of that study may be found HERE

 

[Ginando]

Re: Computer Parts Described in the Bible

To quote your quote from Strong's Concordance...

I quote from the Concordance 520 'ammah am-maw' prolonged from 517; properly, a mother (i.e. unit of measure, or the fore-arm (below the elbow), i.e. a cubit; also a door-base (as a bond of the entrance):--cubit, + hundred (by exchange for 3967), measure, post. I.E. unit of measure or the forearm. Therefore by your argument the Concordance is wrong, and therefore taking this to a logical conclusion if anyone uses the Concordance to translate or decode the bible, they are using a flawed document.

It says (in part) "properly, a mother (i.e. unit of measure, or the fore-arm (below the elbow)"
In your reply while you have written the words "I.E. unit of measure, or", it is still stated that an alternative meaning to 'the fore-arm' IS "a unit of measure".
This is upon which Ronald Pegg says the meaning when used in the context of ancient 'stones' is referring to modern cd-roms.

In stating your case about taking the concordance and using its logic to translate/decode, YOU have deliberately not acknowledged these words in the Concordance that backs up Pegg's position.
.
Also regarding a 'lengthy Biblical description', in the Book of Ezekiel, from 104 verses spanning 8 chapters, 198 matches to pictures and/or measurements from a modern cd-rom have been found - when 'a unit of measurement' is employed (not being the length of a fore-arm).

A copy of that study may be found HERE

OK I give up. You've convinced me. Time travellers from some future time went back in time, showed the ancients what would be to the travellers an archaic computer and a series of equally archaic CD roms. They also take a monitor which they just happen to set at the same resolution which Ronald Pegg will use later and a metric ruler to measure the size of objects on a computer screen. Ezeliel then sits and views the images, but doesn't understand them. However he takes a multitude of measurements off the screen, jots these down and converts these measurements into cubits, but the cubits vary in size depending on what he is measuring. The time traveller presumably doesn't speak Ezekials language and at some point refers to em em's meaning millimetres of course, which tells us the metric system is still in use in the future. (No possibility he was eating a bag of candy and Ezekiel said 'Whats that? and time lord says M n M's) Then fortunately Ronald Pegg comes along and handily enough sets his computer screen which is the same size as the time travellers and is on the same resolution, then measures everything and sees Ezekiel must have viewed the same program. It's brilliant.

Nah, just being sarcastic. This is tosh of the highest order and clearly done to promote some cult beliefs, or as some other poster said, is the preamble to a book or documentary or film. I do have to admire the sheer amount of work done on this though.

 

[_Lizard23_]

... and therefore the Bible's basically an early review of Encarta.

 

[spellbound]

The ancients watched an hour's worth of internet porn, downloaded and put to VCD, then played on a shit computer. The bloke in the photograph is looking at the case of the CD ROM and asking what the compilation is called. The time travellers simply reply "we love mormons! Donny Osmond is one you know." The bloke asks what the F**k he's on about, and the time travellers run off to see Jesus Christ, who is a white bloke, with browny blond long hair with stylish waves in it, and a trimmed beard and moustache. Jesus tells them to worship his father or burn in the pits of Hell, *Nice bloke!*.. and the time travellers set up a Satan cult, but can't think of a name. "What was that bloke called who looked at the internet porn?" One asks. "Ronnie Hubbard, I think" Another says.

 

[Pete Younger]

Now you're not really taking this seriously are you? shame on you.

 

[MsPix]

Mr Pegg's missed much better case for temporal intervention The Book Of Enoch which didn't make the final cut of the Bible.

And he said unto me:
'Observe, Enoch, these heavenly tablets,
And read what is written thereon,
And mark every individual fact.'

p. 108

2 And I observed the heavenly tablets, and read everything which was written (thereon) and understood everything, and read the book of all the deeds of mankind, and of all the children of flesh that shall be upon the earth to the remotest generations. 3. And forthwith I blessed the great Lord the King of glory for ever, in that He has made all the works of the world,

These are obiviously memory cards, which among other things contain an astronomy programme, because the surrounding chapters are an astronomical textbook, with some meteorology thrown in!

Earlier it tells the true story of the war in Heaven when some of the "Watchers" rebel and travel to the past to giving men technology. They also interbreed with the early humans. These are obviously Time Lords who wearied of the rule that they could only observe and never intervene!

Enoch is taken to heaven (the Citadel of the Time Lords?), where the story of the Watchers is imparted to him. The book also cotains apocalyptic visions that are probably reports of future wars, including the great wars of the 20th century!

Enoch was censored from the Bible because the Church realised that it was eveidence of time travel!

:hmph:

 

[Eddy_Pen]

Re: DOOPArts. (documented-out-of-place-artifacts)

Time travellers from some future time went back in time, showed the ancients what would be to the travellers an archaic computer and a series of equally archaic CD roms. They also take a monitor which they just happen to set at the same resolution which Ronald Pegg will use later and a metric ruler to measure the size of objects on a computer screen. Ezeliel then sits and views the images, but doesn't understand them. However he takes a multitude of measurements off the screen, jots these down and converts these measurements into cubits, but the cubits vary in size depending on what he is measuring. The time traveller presumably doesn't speak Ezekials language and at some point refers to em em's meaning millimetres of course, which tells us the metric system is still in use in the future. (No possibility he was eating a bag of candy and Ezekiel said 'Whats that? and time lord says M n M's) Then fortunately Ronald Pegg comes along and handily enough sets his computer screen which is the same size as the time travellers and is on the same resolution, then measures everything and sees Ezekiel must have viewed the same program.

Although said sarcasticly, what you have written IS what has been discovered - except for the M n Ms comment.

Also to correct your comment of “However he takes a multitude of measurements off the screen, jots these down and converts these measurements into cubits, but the cubits vary in size depending on what he is measuring”.

It is not that Ezekiel varies the ‘cubit’ measurements as he views the Ancients cd-rom pictures, the pictures themselves are shown in two different formats, one small scale, and the other full screen size, hence the apparent two sets of different Temple measurements for the same Temple.
He actually describes this enlargement of the pictures on the screen in Ezekiel 41:7 as “And an enlarging…and so increased the lowest to the highest by the midst."

Full verse “"41:7 And an enlarging, and a winding about still upward to the side chambers: for the winding about of the house went still upward round about the house: therefore the breadth of the house upward, and so increased the lowest to the highest by the midst."

When the red temple image is clicked upon, it is enlarged to full screen size. Ezekiel then documented the new set of 'larger' measurements.
.

Also it is not just Ezekiel whom documents seeing the modern cd-rom pictures.
There are 3 other cd-roms that have their contents described, along with certain historical passages from two printed history books that were also taken back to the past and shown to ancient people.

To put all this back into the perspective and context of the original post in respect to DOOPArts (regarding a small sample of 10 texts being examined):
To review.

DOOPArt:
is where the description and contents of certain mid 1990s cd-roms* and an associated technological computer system have been found in very unusual or seemingly impossible contexts, such as being depicted in hieroglyphs or documented in ancient myths and legends as well as what are now known as religious texts.
*
1. Ancient Civilizations of the Mediterranean - Multimedia CD ROM by SCALA/E.M.M.E. Interactive, United Kingdom, 1995.
2. The New Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia, Release 6, Grolier Inc., 1993.
3. RedShift2 by MARIS Multimedia, England, 1998.
4. The Holy Bible, Media Graphics International, 1998


Can DOOPArts that are seemingly out of place (and time) be regarded as evidence of time travel?

I have personally conducted the following empirical tests and utilized observation to form my conclusions - which mostly support Ronald Pegg’s discoveries and claims.

1.
I have viewed the Ancients cd-rom.
I have read and examined descriptions from the following ancient sources:
Sumerian
Great Ennead of Heliopolis
Other Egyptian Gods
Benu Bird, Benben Stone, and the Phoenix
King Menes (Aha)
Egyptian Gods
Seven Stages of Egyptian Mythology
Pyramid Texts
Coffin Texts
The Book of the Dead
- Funeral Bed vignette
- Nine Component Parts of Man
The Papyrus of Ani
- Plate 1
- Plates VII & VIII
The Ladder of God
Egyptian Hieroglyphics
Sepher Yetzirah - The Book of Formation
Middle East Creation Myths
Old Testament
- Genesis
- Ezekiel
- Daniel
New Testament
- Mark
- John
- Mathew
- Revelation
Qur’an
Book of Mormon
Nostradamus:
- Letter to Henry
- Centuries of Quatrains
- Sestets
- Letter to Cesar
- Presages 69 to 74

Findings.
Images, descriptions of icons, and related layout and contents from the Ancients cd-rom are described in these ancient texts.
Or to put it another way - Documented ancient descriptions match to the imagery from the Ancientscd-rom.

Revelation and Daniel Studies: ‘dream’ and ‘future visions’ are from this cd-rom.
Plato’s Dialogue: His ‘future’ Athens descriptions are of the pictures from the GREEK section, and his Atlantis descriptions from the ETRUSCAN section.
Ezekiel Study: from 104 verses, 198 descriptions match to the contents of this cd-rom.

2.
I have viewed the Grolier cd-rom.
I have read and examined descriptions from Sumerian and Egyptian Stories, Hieroglyphs, the Old Testament and the New Testament, and specifically Daniel 11:40-45 and Revelation Chapter 9.

Findings.
Images, descriptions of icons, and related layout, contents, (and a specific animation) from the Grolier cd-rom are described in these ancient texts.

3.
I have viewed the Redhift2 cd-rom.
I have read and examined descriptions from the Book of Revelations (also certain Books in the Old Testament), the Dialogues of Plato, Egyptian Stories.

Findings.
“The Sun standing still” is an account of the ‘Solar system’ animation being stopped.
In Revelation chapter 12 John describes certain planet and comet HEADINGS and the number of pictures seen within them.
Plato recounts the contents from the Orbits of the Solar System animation from the RedShift2cd-rom.
The Egyptian “Left Eye of Horus” is a representation of the woman’s left eye from the RedShift2’s animated logo.

4.
I have viewed and examined the Holy Bible cd-rom.
I have read and examined descriptions from the Book of Mormon.

Findings.
The colour of the Holy Bible cd-rom has been described.
The general contents of the Holy Bible cd-rom has been characterized.
Documented ancient descriptions recount the number of “disks” (both cds and floppy disks) required to setup and boot then run the Ancients cd-roms on a 386 PC desktop computer system..

5.
I have read two certain History Books*
I have read and examined descriptions from the following ancient sources:
Exodus
Judges
Books of Kings

*
The Timetables of Jewish History, Judah Gribetz with Edward L Greenstein and R. S Stein, Simon & Schuster, New York, 1994
Encyclopedia of The Persian Gulf War, Mark Grossman, ABC-CLIO Inc, 1995.

Findings
The chronicles in the works of Moses previously interpreted to be ‘ancient history’ by religious scholars (which btw has never been confirmed as actually occurring), are in fact accounts of ‘future’ modern historical events told to him from the history books.
A specific selection of six pages of historical data from a modern history book has been transcribed and documented in the Book of Judges.
A year of military historical data from 22 May 1990 to 22 May 1991 has been encoded in the Books of Kings in 100 verses. 83 extracted historical events were identified and another 69 derived from the numerical data documented in the ancient words.

6.
General Findings
The Book of Revelations is an account by John of Patmos in 95CE of what he saw and was told when a time messenger showed him presentations from three cd-roms (Ancients, Grolier, and RedShift2); and “The Seven Angels sounding” refer to seven particular audio-visual presentations seen from all three cd-roms.

The said characteristics of the various Akkadian and Egyptian gods are exact descriptions of the icons and imagery from the Ancients cd-rom.
The Papyrus of Ani is not about a Sun god called RA, but about the sca-LA disk.

The Creation account by Moses is a commentary of a series of images seen when the Ancients cd-rom is first entered and viewed.

The Bible factually documents the first modern Israeli census that was published in February 1949 based upon May 1948 figures of 650,000.

The biblical account called The Lord''s Passover Festival is a literal historical documentation of the first week of the Persian Gulf War, covered over by a deliberate two day shift in dates.

The biblical account called The Exodus is a literal historical documentation of the Kurdish exodus from March 3rd out of Iraq and into Iran, and into Turkish mountain camps on the 5th April 1991.

. (You will need to read Pegg’s research Booklets to make sense of most of this.)

To me, all of this is proof that the contents from modern cd-roms and certain history books ARE described in ancient texts - because when one sits down with the texts and view the cd-roms and/or printed history books, the descriptions match.

So, is it evidence of Time Travel ?

It all got back there somehow. I call the process ‘reverse time travel’, being back-stepping to the past.

GOD’s Angels (in the religious sense) were NOT the mechanism by which this has occurred, as those religiously documented gods, GOD, and angels were misunderstood Human Time Messengers who at the time were perceived by the ancient people to be gods or angels.

The evidence is that the contents and historical and astronomical events from modern cd-roms and history books ARE documented and described in many, many ancient texts from around the world and from different time periods.

 

[Eddy_Pen]

Mr Pegg's missed much better case for temporal intervention The Book Of Enoch which didn't make the final cut of the Bible.

If what else you say is true, then he did, didn't he.

From where can I obtain a copy of this 'rejected' book of the Bible ?

 

[rynner2]

Well, Eddy, if what you say is true, the the world is even more weird and wonderful than I thought!

But I suspect this is all an example of the equally weird and wonderful ability of the human mind to put 2 and 2 together and get pi-in-the-sky...

 

[MsPix]

Mr Pegg's missed much better case for temporal intervention The Book Of Enoch which didn't make the final cut of the Bible.

If what else you say is true, then he did, didn't he.

From where can I obtain a copy of this 'rejected' book of the Bible ?

There's a translation available at: http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/

Also at: http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/thebookofenoch.htm

Also the first translation at; http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/enoch.html

Chapter 71
1The book of the revolutions of the luminaries of heaven, according to their respective classes, their respective powers, their respective periods, their respective names, the places where they commence their progress, and their respective months, which Uriel, the holy angel who was with me, explained to me; he who conducted them. The whole account of them, according to every year of the world for ever, until a new work shall be effected, which will be eternal.

"And Azâzêl taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjâzâ taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, Armârôs the resolving of enchantments, Barâqîjâl, taught astrology, Kôkabêl the constellations, Ezêqêêl the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiêl the signs of the earth, Shamsiêl the signs of the sun, and Sariêl the course of the moon."

While the Book of Enoch, didn't make it into the western churches' Bible it survived in the version of the Bible used by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and in fragmentary form in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

*Edited because I can't spell Ethiopian*