The Matrix

[Anonymous]

***The Matrix: Reloaded - SPOILERS***

!!!!!!!!!!!!!SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!

Hmmm...has anyone else seen this yet? What did you think?? Did it meet your expectations???

I didn't love it (like the original), but I didn't hate it either...

It suffered from lack of imagination (can you believe it!!). Here we have a character who became a god in the first Matrix (Neo), but in this one we find him having trouble fighting mutiple opponents...hmmm.

The introduce the Twins, cool but underused (aka D. Maul) and the ghost/vampire/werewolf ideas, but hardly use them. Are they saving them...

It also suffers from the same problem as Blade II, TO MUCH KUNG-FU (wire-fu...whatever)!! Man, that shite gets boring after one or two fights...give me guns, give me monsters, give me blood & guts, give me robots, give me geek-speak.

Other issues -
No major character deaths (which makes all the fighting meaningless imho, since there's no 'cost' to it)

That dance/sex scene - waste of time - felt weird....

The ending should've happened before he went through the 'DOOR'. I missed some of what the architecht said - right over my head...everything after the door opened felt rushed/tacked on...Why does Neo have to choose????

Morpheaus is kinda a wanker....

What I liked:

The highway scene ruled! Those twins really RULED!!

Overall it was all kinda boring....can't say I'm pumped about Revolutions....

What did you think?????

 

[taras]

Re: ***The Matrix: Reloaded - SPOILERS***

The highway scene ruled! Those twins really RULED!!

I haven't seen it yet so I didn't actually read most of your post. But the twins were interviewed in the Sunday Times. They said that they worked really well together because they could instinctively tell what they were going to do, allowing them to perform all kinds of martial arts stunts first take.

 

[Anonymous]

Good actioner, but it just didn't hang together like the first. Slightly disappointed, but it's still pretty darn good.

 

[MrRING]

Personally, i thought it was better than the first film, but then again, I wasn't ga-ga over the first film.

I agree, the Twins rocked!

I liked the ideas portrayed, including the idea of Neo not being as "all-powerful" as it might have seemed in the first film. And really, even though he has great powers in the first film, he's just starting out, he hasn't been really tested as far as what he can and can't do in a big mass fight.

The whole first part seemed like a 70's sci-fi film like Logan's Run, but that's good since I like those kinds of movies.

My favorite concept is the idea of renegade programs running counter to both "the Matrx" and human interests, like the Twins, the Oracle & her guard, or the french guy & Monica Belluci. Even Agent Smith is a figure who has expanded the fight beyond Neo vs. the Matrix.

If there is any questions out there you have about plot, ask and maybe we can all come up with an answer. One of the few cases where the sequel is better than the original.

BTW - loved the short clip from Hammer's Bride of the Vampire - that gal rocks!

 

[Anonymous]

disaster.

A disgraceful spankfest that shat all over the first film's would-be legacy.

So much money...so little imagination...far too much time.

Aaliyah...you came off best: More Than A Woman was a far better legacy than this CGI-centered, sub MTV Base fest could ever be.

You were posthumously enriched by your association with this film's potential, yet never sullied by its piss-poor realisation.

Wachowski boys....enjoy that money while you can...history will judge you greedy, inept, and worst of all, unimaginative.

Shame.

Who can wait for "Revolutions"? Sweet Jesus, I could wait forever.

 

[Anonymous]

OKay, my two cents: Yes the fight scenes were boring after one or two. But the philosophical content (which IMO set apart the first movie from any other sci fi movies) was much deeper and more thought provoking.

I described this movie to someone as being softcore porn for computer geeks with a religious education.

Some nice computer geek in-jokes as well, like the agent (software agent, now that's a cute pun) Smith being somehow overwritten with some odd code when Neo "killed" him in the original - and now he's a virus! How cool is that?!

Many thought provoking ideas created by Smith's comments (about Neo somehow overwriting his code - which usually only happens program to program, which gives rise to the question: what is different about Neo's program and is it only his Matrix GUI that is a program or is his very existance truly a program?), esp the fact that Smith obviously knows something that Neo can/should/might be able to do but also knows that Neo has not figured it out (their pre-fight conversation in the portal of "backdoors")....and the Architect's monologue: way cool. Much of it like what the Matrix itsself is purported to be: cosmetics, an overlay, smoke and mirrors, if you will. But the clues he gives about the successive versions of the Matrix, and the way he talks about Neo having sprung as expected from the seeds they planted in the program....This all brings forth the philosphical concepts behind the idea of free will. Do we really have it? Ever? Or are we fated to a certain existance and does a rejection of that fate lead to obliteration?

And that leads me to the Merovingian and his comments about choice: "Choice is an illusion created between those with power and those without". And in keeping with the religious allusions, there's the legend that the Merovingian line of royal houses was descended from Mary Magdalene, possibly via a liason with Christ. Thus the "divine right of kings" was truly divine. And in the movie, the Merovingian's powers are supported by his followers (what is a king without subjects?), who are all firmly rooted in the Matrix, all being rebel defunct programs....But Neo beats them all - How's that for power in this world being nothing compared to the power and glory of God? Or The One Whew!

Also fascinating is the subject of the Oracle. Now an Oracle is by definition the mouthpiece of the Gods. Not a prophet or a source of prophesy. But the Oracle's pronouncements were treated by Morpheus and his ilk as prophesy. Big mistake. An Oracle speaks as the Gods move him or her to...not as the listener wishes. And she admits that she too is a program. Dang. Someone should have taught semantics in Zion. Oops. Betcha that comes out in the final movie.

My expectation: The fact that Neo was, originally, a hacker, and can see the code behind the GUI, is what is going to be relied on in the end. The fact that at the end of Reloaded, Neo apparently had superhuman or mystical powers IRL is a feint - it will be his human qualities/abilities that will enable him to save the world. Unless the Wachowski Brothers actually intend for Keanu (Dude, I know jujitsu...Excellent) Reeves' character to bodily ascent to heaven, which I doubt. But the real clue is: Not only can Neo see the code behind the Matrix's GUI, he can write to it as he apparently did with Smith. My prediction - you can hold me to it.

Edit: Yes the love scene/dance sequence really sucked. I found it beyond my alibility to suspend disbelief that people living difficult stressful and war-torn lives would simply throw a rave at a moments notice, and nothing else in their culture played into the concept. Talk about incongruous. Plus there was zero heat/chemistry in the sex thing with Neo and Trinity. The feeling I got was "acting" not "passion".

 

[Anonymous]

Saw it last night (first screening on premiere night!) and it was ..... hmmm .... okay to good. Think this is definitely a film to be watched a second time to really appreciate.


The first ten/twenty minutes really let me down, they justy didn't grab me, too much jumping from one scene to the next without enough lead-in. I generally got the feeling that they tried to cram too much into too short a time, and as a result sacrificed plot to information. But it calmed down and sorted itself out.

The highway was definitely the best scene, with the camera zooming under trucks etc - loved it.

Really enjoyed Neo's encounter with the Architect - some interesting ideas raised, though still some points need clarification - if Neo had chosen the other door then Zion would still be destroyed but he could pick 24 people to start a new one, and he would be re-programmed? but he chose to save Trinity and so has put the whole human race at risk?

I believe Smith in human form will be his Nemesis but also the key for his understanding his power. Here's a thought - what if the One is actually a premature Architect, and it is the Architect who get's replaced every cycle. Ok maybe not.

Overall the film was good but like Empire Strikes back is more of a filler/setup for the big finale. As they seem to have squeezed so much information into Reloaded, hopefully Resurrections will be able to play out at a more relaxed pace and explore all those questions raised in the first two.

 

[oll_lewis]

+++spoiler alert+++

I don't know how anyone can say this movie was only good :eek!!!!:

It was Fan-bloody-tastic!

the car chace (I hope the twins return for part 3) was brillient, even better than the one in Ronin and the one in Jonny English.

The fight's were brilient (if you don't like watching kung fu, ninja and JKD then why are you going to see a martial arts sci fi movie ) even if you were board by the poetry of the martial arts seanes you've got to admit that the agent smith fight after neo sees the oracle was amazeing.

there wasen't a lot of stuf an the whole deap back story in this movie for two reasons I think:
1) that was mostly covered by the first film, there wasen't much more to tell (apart from what Neo learns from the arcitect and the fact that rouge programs exist).
2) the stuf that was in matrix one was mostly invented in the mind of the veiwer, it realy didn't get that deap in matrix one. all that stuf about budist/gnostisisam conections etc was invented by fans, if the Watchamacallit brothers neaded a faith base on the film it makes more sense to base it on things already in existance.

As to agents proveing a challenge to Neo, didn't you notice the bit where it said that the agants were upgrades? Also as the chosen one Neo is a messiah by definition (and in terms of what he can do, he has power but he can't clap his hands and sort the whole mess out) and not a god. The fact that Neo's power as the chosen one is messiahal rather than god like is also born out by Neo's resurection in the first film and his raiseing trinity from death in matrix 2.

The first film was mearly setting the scene for this one and in terms of excitement and watchability this film delivers so much more than the first one could hope to, the first one made you think more but I expect the 3rd one will be a lot more similar to the format of the fist movie as this is often the case with trilogys (eg indiana jones, back to the future) so have faith

Esentially the matrix is a live action manga film, this was the intention from the start and sadly this is not everyones cup of tea but some people caught up in the hype perhaps expected, rather than an exciteing scifi-kung fu action movie to get a deap philisophical film, the origional never pretended to be that so why should the sequel be any different, now?

 

[marion]

Just been to see it!I liked it,definitley had to think more with this one,and it did have that middle-film-of-three feel to it,there were a couple of bits that dragged,all that Zion,council meeting etc. stuff.Good entertainment-which I guess is the point after all.

 

[Anonymous]

Just saw it last night, and I quite liked it.

Despite: obvious CGI Neo and Smiths in the big multi-Smith battle. The big multi-Smith battle going on far too long. The big multi-Smith battle being badly edited (each bunch of reinforcements just came on-screen with no real impact on the audience, when it was obviously intended to be a big running gag, so clearly the timing was off and that was down to the editing). The freeway scene went on too long as well (altho' no doubt I'm in a minority there with that opinion). The rave scene doesn't work because there was -again thanx to duff editing- no relationship between the rhythm of the music and the rhythms of the dancers: if you want the dancers taking one step for every 30-40 beats fine, just make sure the editing doesn't keep wrecking that relationship). The rave scene serves no narrative or thematic purpose that I could detect.

Reading all that back I'm unsure really what I liked about it, except maybe the number of times I laughed out loud and the fact that I thouroughly enjoyed all the slo-mo fight scenes, and I usually *detest* slo-mo fight scenes. (In fact, the big set-piece of Neo vs. the Merovingian's goons reminded me a lot of the big slo-mo fight scene in "Face Off", and I nearly fell asleep during *that* turkeytrot, yet here I liked it.)

 

[Hospitaller]

what is different about Neo's program and is it only his Matrix GUI that is a program or is his very existance truly a program?

Having seen the film last Thursday and thought a lot about it since them, I think this could be right!
If it turns out that the "real world" is a rival "matrix" generated by a rival computer system, I wouldn't be surprised.
Are these two "mainframes" (why the urgency to get access codes to the Zion mainframe in the first movie?) hacking each other and infecting each other with viruses?

Or is the whole process a simulated trial-run by the master computer planning to create a real Matrix. Has Zion been destroyed six times in an attempt to discover and then tweak all variables in subsequent simulations in order to attain a model for optimal success in of the Matrix in real life (with minimal disruption by via the emergence of a "One" - Neo being merely the latest model)??

I think that the way Neo could feel the Sentinels and stop them is the biggest indicator that the "real world" is either a matrix (and the Matrix a matrix within that matrix), or that these are two independent rival matrices... or am I completely onthe wrong track?

PS I missed a good bit of the Architect's monologue due to two teenage girls trying to explain its content to each other in the row behind me :hmph: , so my theories may be lacking...

 

[oll_lewis]

It was curious that all the previous 'ones' that it was showing on the screan behind neo when he met the arcutect (never could spell that word *sigh*) all looked the same, or I could be wrong and they were simulations of neo's posible reactions. If they were the previous 'ones' then why exactly did they all look the same? as neo looks the same outside the matix as in, this might sugest he was created by the matric physicly as well as in program form...

That could mean anything from him being some sort of clone or him being part mashine. Or I could be compleatly wrong which would teach me to base a theory on something that might be going on in the background of one scean

 

[Hospitaller]

they were simulations of neo's posible reactions

That's my interpretation anyway!

 

[Anonymous]

It was curious that all the previous 'ones' that it was showing on the screan behind neo when he met the arcutect (never could spell that word *sigh*) all looked the same, or I could be wrong and they were simulations of neo's posible reactions. If they were the previous 'ones' then why exactly did they all look the same? as neo looks the same outside the matix as in, this might sugest he was created by the matric physicly as well as in program form...

That could mean anything from him being some sort of clone or him being part mashine. Or I could be compleatly wrong which would teach me to base a theory on something that might be going on in the background of one scean

My take on it was that what you were seeing on screen were glimpses of the various aspects of Neo's personality as exists within the matrix (i.e. for a human to plug into the matrix they must transpose their whole consciousness into it, including the collection of voices that make up your psyche). To a mainframe program like the architect (and Neo) the hidden code and decision nodes that make up individual programs are visible, which is why the architect can see Neo's decision (which door?) before he becomes completely aware of it. The bank of screens behind the architect are windows into the hidden code of Neo.

As for more than one matrix, there probably has to be a Master matrix - for the architect must exist external to the Matrix in order to create it. Now unless he is a physical machine as well as a program, then there must be an environment where he can exist seperately. If this is so, then maybe all the human's consciousness' reside here as well so that they can be kept safe during reboots. Now maybe what is happening is that Neo is able to tap into this master matrix, where there are no rules, and in fact all the rules are written, and now he will become an architect in his own right.

just a few more ideas for the mix

 

[oll_lewis]

ah well, another good idea down the swannie :sad:

What intrgues me is why exactly was neo given the choice to save some people from zion? surely it would benifit the mashines a whole lot more if they just destroyed it? if people nead to be outside the matrix to get it running the next vertion of the matix or whatever it would make more sense to just take them from their little battery colection?

Maybe we'll get the answer in part 3...

 

[Hospitaller]

What intrgues me is why exactly was neo given the choice to save some people from zion? surely it would benifit the mashines a whole lot more if they just destroyed it?

Yeah, that's why I reckoned it was simulated. As for giving Neo the choice of who to pick... I suppose it would make for a more difficult simulation to beat - a bit like moving on a level in a computer game - and therefore covering more and more difficult eventualities that might arise with a real matrix...

edit - Matrix twit of the Year Award goes to the girl walking out of the cinema ahead of us saying "That was stoopid! How could a man fight all those guys and survive!"

 

[Spookyangel]

I found it incredibly hard to follow. I really should have rewatched the first one, it had been years since I'd seen it! Oh well.
I enjoyed it. Yes, there were silly parts and parts that made no sense, but overall I loved the feel of the film. I loved the action scenes, and gave up worrying about whether I understood it or not and just sat back and enjoyed it.
I'm sure if I watched both films a few times over I'd understand it all more, but it's only a film, so as long as you enjoy it, why worry?
Special thanks to Oll who explained the ending to me though.

Darn now I want to go out and dress up like Trinity. Hehe.

 

[Anonymous]

ah well, another good idea down the swannie :sad:

What intrgues me is why exactly was neo given the choice to save some people from zion? surely it would benifit the mashines a whole lot more if they just destroyed it? if people nead to be outside the matrix to get it running the next vertion of the matix or whatever it would make more sense to just take them from their little battery colection?

Maybe we'll get the answer in part 3...

They need to save some of the original people to start the prophecy and keep 'hope' alive thereby taking care of the anomaly.

Thinking about it, how many were left alive at the end? could it possibly be 24, the number the architect predicted, and therefore showing that this is indeed just another repitition (and Neo's moves were all predicted), but with the difference being Agent Smith in human form?

 

[Anonymous]

un edited

the film was like it was originaly shot to be one film,including the follow up
so they just left all the bits an editor would have kicked.
why did'nt neo just kill the architect?
the virus twins wernt, it was agent smith who was a virus
what effect would the destruction of zion have on the matrix since there was no connection to it ?
they could have killed them all just the same and left them to re-build just the same without any effect to the matrix other than the deaths of all humans!
in both outcomes they kill all at zion anyhow!
since neo was the one why wasnt there an antie one?
good vs evil?
why couldnt the machines just fly of into space or at least above the clouds?

 

[Spookyangel]

Did anyone see the trailer for part 3 that was shown after the credits? I found out it was shown after reading a review when I got home.
I mean how many ppl actually stay until the end of the credits now?

 

[MrRING]

I did stay for it. It really just shows a few fast cuts of fighting imagry and another Agent Smith VS Neo moment in the rain. It's cool though.

(At my theatre, though, they have a bad habit of sending in the clean up crew, who stare at you if you are watching the credits - they want the audience to leave so they can turn up the lights and clean up, and I for one don't want to try to watch the full credits with 3 sullen teens staring at me, waiting for me to leave the theatre. Fortunately, about a fourth of the audience stayed for the Matrix trailer, so it's all good).

 

[Anonymous]

zion

the machines need light to help there energy needs this isnt avalible so they used thermal energy.
and they could drill to seemingly any depth.
so thermal energy of the earth or of humans?

the humans were using it!

idiotic machines or
not the whole/true story hopefully.

could the machines want the kind of control over humans we had over them somehow?

 

[Anonymous]

or could it be that the real humans are the machines and the real machines are the humans in this story
the humans trying to rescuse a catatoinc machine mind?

 

[McAvennie]

Saw it last night and have simlar feelings to those at the start of the thread, average.

So glad other people thought that as well!!

Don't get me wrong, it was great at times, the twins, the car chase the Neo v 100's of Smiths - all great.

The dance scene and sex scene were unnecessary IMO. Neo & Trinity are dating and are desperate for a shag, we know this, we don't need to see it.

Agent Smith just seemed to be there for the sake of it. OK he didn't die and has the ability to clone himself but what use is that if all he does is appear randomly and lose fights. It seemed like they worked out a new trick (having hundreds of clones on screen) and needed a way to fit it in.

It seemed to me that it was a lot of set-pieces and SFX shots with an attempt to fit a story around them. Whereas the original had a great story complimented by some mental effects.

The destruction of Zion totally bypassed me! I thought it was just the ship they were planning to escape in that got blown. They could have had a massive effects heavy ending showing the obliteration of the city and screaming death-bound Zionians.

Also am I really thick or what was the deal with the one survivor? I assume he was the guy who was gonna stab Neo, who was the guy who Agent Smith morphed into. Is that right?

At first I thought it was Joe Pantoliano's character!

Overall a good film. Enjoyable, but a let-down in the face of the hype. Nowhere near the same feeling as when I came outta the first one. One positive, I had been fairly unimpressed by X2, now my appreciation of that has been racked right up! T3 trailer looked good as well. Could Matrix end up being the least appreciated of the 3 big sci-fi releases this year.

Gutted that I missed the trailer at the end

 

[Hospitaller]

the film was like it was originaly shot to be one film,including the follow up

Well that explains the dancing and other superfluous scences.

why did'nt neo just kill the architect?

'Cos it wasn't in the script! Seriously though, would the Architect have allowed him to?

T3 trailer looked good as well

In our cinema it was just the letters "T3" forming out of liquid metal! What a disappointment! What did you see?!? Anyone else know atin bout T3? Is it a Terminator prequel?

 

[Anonymous]

no more

" So much money.....so little imagination.....far too much time. "

The 1999 Matrix seems like a masterpiece compared to this orgy of self indulgence. From the name actors in thankless roles ( Jada Pinkett Smith, Monica Belluci ) to the interminable dance and freeway scenes, not to mention the unintentionally funny fight scenes ( Neo looks like it's Saturday night at the disco), I could find very little to enjoy. The multiple Smiths were fun but, as said elsewhere, basically an excuse to trot out one more of the innumerable effects that prop up this sorry sequel. The trailer for Tarantino's Kill Bill was a model of restraint by comparison.

 

[McAvennie]

In our cinema it was just the letters "T3" forming out of liquid metal! What a disappointment! What did you see?!? Anyone else know atin bout T3? Is it a Terminator prequel?

A lot of skeletal robots marauding around, some Furlong wannabe (that bugs me) and a bird running around and scenes of Armageddon b4 Arnie turns up. Looked better than I expected it to. Will still blow, probably.

 

[Philo_T]

Alex Winter is the savior of mankind, defeats skynet!

What is with Keanu Reeves, anyhow?

Obviously he's trying to leak the horrible truth to wake up the public.

1 - Rufus teaches Bill & Ted some excellent lessons
2 - Bill & Ted defeat robot Bill & robot Ted from the future
...
3 - Johnny Mnemonic meets a cyborg dolphin, and er, proves William Gibson is obsolete. (I have cable, what color is a dead channel? [edit: I just remembered what I'm currently using for an avatar ])
4 - (the rise of the machines) skynet becomes sentinent, wars on mankind
...
5 - robot from the future comes to kill Sarah Conner
6 - robot from the future comes to save John Conner
...
mankind "burns the sky" to destroy skynet
7 - mankind nearly totally enslaved by machines, the one is found
8 - the one meets the architect
9 - (the one realizes his abilities in the matrix also work in reality. Apparently the machines have inadvertenly bred something unusual.)
10 - (Bill & Ted teach robots & humans to be excellent to each other and party on)

As you can see, for the dekology to be completed, Bill must return to bring balance to the universe.



[edit: wow, I have the amazing ability to stop any thread dead in its tracks!]

 

[Anonymous]

My GF said it best:

"Okay, if you're the One, what number am I thinking of?"
"69, Dude"
"Whoa"

 

[zardozzz]

Yes , yes .yes. But what was the Merovingian all about? He was a strange character. Given an equaly esoteric name, maybe the clue is in the name ?